EP 420 – Mormon Marriages

Josh and Angilyn Bagley, hosts of the Mormon Marriages podcast, join us to talk about what can be done to truly make a marriage celestial.

[dropcap]W[/dropcap]hat makes a perfect marriage? There is no panacea, but Nate and Angilyn Bagley work tirelessly to find ways to make a marriage a truly celestial one on their podcast Mormon Marriages. The show highlights different Latter-day Saint couples and covers numerous themes, including mixed-faith relationships, addiction recovery, gratitude, faith, and more. They are dedicated to their craft.

But what makes them tick as a couple? Join us as we learn about how they have applied profound counsel in their marriage and how looking at sources inside and outside the Church can benefit you and your spouse.

Visit Mormon Marriagestheir nifty website at and subscribe to the podcast.

Intro and outro music courtesy of Keys of the Moon.


[0:20] Hello there everyone thank you once again for taking the time to listen to this weekend warm and it’s nice to be with you I haven’t talked to you for a couple of weeks and I apologize
I for that wonderful to hear the sisters last week
the week before that we actually did have a show recorded but due to some technical difficulties it never got published,
and that’s just going to it’s just going to disappear into the annals of History maybe for those of you who support us on patreon,
a picture of just patreon. Com or you can pledge money and help support twin maybe for my Teton exclusive her for you if you want to hear some disastrous audio.

[0:58] Let me know patreon supporters please drop me a line Jeff at this week in Mormons. Com by the way if you haven’t done patreon check it out like a buck a month if you want any amount you want but I’m just saying pay hop on their folks,
budget Buckmaster help us keep the lights on so to speak anyway,
you have not heard a co-host yet this week because once again I’m going down the interview Lane yes and we’re going to keep talking about marriage you might remember a handful of weeks ago I had Alan and Katie mount on
the show they hosting married on a tightrope podcast where they talk about their mixed-faith marriage if you haven’t heard that go back look in the feed
it’s a very worthwhile episode one of the ones quite frankly I’m most proud of in nearly 10 years of doing this and this week we talked to Angela and Nate Bagley who hosted the Mormon marriages podcast
what’s the focus more on how to select realize your marriage so to speak but in a very real way they collectively have done,
a lot of research on this matter this is something you’re passionate about their not to two people hanging out talking about their relationship,
they talk about the real science involved behind relationships and of course they do it from a Latter-Day Saint perspective,
it’s a great interview there they’re terrific sports for hanging out and talking to us so you can go to Mormon marriages. Comment subscribe to their podcast wherever you get Podcast and likewise,
if I can do a quick plug.

[2:18] Please subscribe to this weekend Mormon wherever you get Podcast Apple Google Stitcher whatever you want it’s all there and if you really really would want to go the extra mile,
brightness review on iTunes when you do that it helps us and rankings and searches and such as what helps other people find women just about oh good the show has more reviews,
and is more visible and actually helps people find the show and help more people be aware of its very existence and this is our 10th season,
10 seasons of twin of This World sitcom they change our our logo so it would be in Gold lettering or something along those lines to celebrate,
such a wonderful Milestone so he’ll make it good and write us a great review on iTunes and you know if you do it,
we read them on air when they’re worthwhile even the ones that say things like these guys are morons I embrace that I appreciate your frankness I take it to heart but I do reject your theory,
so that’s going to be that anyway I want to let you have some time with the bagley’s who were terrific so let’s turn the interview over to them,
alright so Nate angelyn.

Mormon Marriages:
[3:27] Hello well we’re just we’re just hanging out with you.

[3:33] As far as one does when you’re on this week and Mormon this is the hangout show of the millennium.

Mormon Marriages:
[3:38] Where eleven it is a nice place you got here.

[3:41] My basement with Ikea furniture.

Mormon Marriages:
[3:43] Year year year Burton virtual chat chat space where we get to hang out with you.

[3:47] I know you’re a guest and you feel intimidated but there’s no need to patronize me or suck up I’m fine,
I’m a very mellow guy I just want I just want to go to Popeye’s and watch Netflix I’m good.

Mormon Marriages:
[3:57] Perfect next time will be the Popeyes then.

[3:59] I might do they have Popeye’s in Utah.

Mormon Marriages:
[4:02] They do they do it’s been recent in recent years.

[4:06] Have you been there you’ll know if you’ve been there because you’ll feel it in your body for a number of days after work.

Mormon Marriages:
[4:12] I felt it I thought the papaya hangover but Elsewhere for a Popeye’s hangover I completed a piece of my soul when I ate a Popeye’s for the first time because I finally understood the Aquabats song,
where they talk about all the different chicken restaurants that are so amazing aqua.

[4:28] What song is that as it as a native Orange County and I know the Aquabats.

Mormon Marriages:
[4:32] I don’t know I just know cuz chicken make me feel so good and then I go a Popeye’s Chicken gold and basket weave but was looking at me like I’m crazy.

[4:44] No I like the okay so Angel and you just hang out and it not going to talk about.

Mormon Marriages:
[4:48] Angelyn Street Crandall is too young to remember how there’s a reverse copy.

[4:51] Why were there but why Scott was and also why it was basically a mistake now.

Mormon Marriages:
[4:56] That’s why you wanted is on this podcast right is just talk about Ska music but this week has gone music.

[5:00] This week in scar twist.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:04] I love it.

[5:06] I was in the Ska band in high school.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:09] That doesn’t surprise me.

[5:10] Jim I played saxophone in it.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:13] I was going to get saxophone or trombone.

[5:15] No it was it was the goofy ass, and you never hear I like all the the Rhythm.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:19] The gopis got band name.

[5:21] New era called The Argyle it was it was two tone skin I was old school has worked better we had our our,
this is the greatest digression ever but we had
advisors for young number two brothers who lived next door to each other one was the singer dealing with the keyboardist and they had other like adult male friends were the drummer is the actual band component then all of the horns or a bunch of useless like in our Ward.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:46] A bunch of 14 year olds a 15 year old.

[5:47] Yeah I went to 15 year old guys playing soccer with like 3 sac.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:50] That sounds delightfully terrible.

[5:54] NFR to Fellowship we included a tuba cuz he was sort of not totally active so we wanted to make him feel out there.

Mormon Marriages:
[5:59] I like it.

[6:01] We never play the show but we detest sticker.

Mormon Marriages:
[6:03] That sounds.

[6:04] Anyway we can talk Scott all day but that’s not why we’re all here though I am curious what your age Gap is now that you say Angela doesn’t know.

Mormon Marriages:
[6:12] 7 7 years.

[6:14] That’s significant Shield.

Mormon Marriages:
[6:15] When I was when I was on my mission she was a beehive extra bucks true true.

[6:21] You don’t want to throw that one out there.

Mormon Marriages:
[6:23] It’s weird to say when he was getting the priesthood I was in kindergarten that’s what she said.

[6:31] You always say that that’s how you introduce yourself.

Mormon Marriages:
[6:34] Yep when I was in kindergarten name was getting the priesthood.
Nice to meet you.

[6:42] Well this is what you guys are clearly relationship experts look at the look at the red part A you have so,
Mormon marriages podcast what’s going on with this thing right now over a year ago right.

Mormon Marriages:
[7:01] It was a slow start it was about a year ago we started it in February of 2018 so Nate has his podcast called the lovey mentary which he’s had for almost seven years now.

[7:13] And what is this podcast I should know about.

Mormon Marriages:
[7:15] It’s the same promise it’s I went around the country and it started by me going around the country and interviewing Couples from all walks of life who are in love with each other,
to try and figure out what the Common Thread was that the most extraordinary couples did what were the things the most extraordinary couple of days that everybody else is missing out on,
so I started this podcast and I ended up quitting my job to do it and doing a Kickstarter and raised like $30,000 and then publish all these conversations and people were like opposites really interesting stuff I’ve had a lot of these questions too and then I started getting introduced to experts in,
and a lot of like researchers and authors and really Fascinating People in the relationship space that had answers that had actual research and experience and provided really really
Amazing Stories and information that we really helpful to people and then I got married and and his kind of champion,
this dream of mine to rid the world of Mickey mediocre love Nikki Joker and then we’ve always wanted to do a podcast that involves a little bit of my faith,
and I asked her if she wanted to do it with me and it was a husband-wife project and she jumped on board and she’s like Champion did she runs the show now.

[8:27] You guys can see the smirk on her face but when you said she runs and she said it’s been fun there was clear there’s a sense of ownership and Angela.

Mormon Marriages:
[8:34] Yes she legit runs it and it’s amazing she’s phenomenal but the premise of the show is that,
an Eternal Marriage doesn’t start on your wedding day it’s,
is created every single day afterwards and a lot of times in the church we prepare ourselves for the ordinance of being still together,
but we don’t talk much about what comes after that and so there’s a lot of generalized advice and a lot of really vague advice like,
the Christ at the center of your relationship or just read your scriptures together or,
make sure you’re praying together and we wanted to be a resource to provide people with like real
Tools in real life advice they can help them actually create that Eternal Marriage now instead of just waiting,
for the resurrection we talked about a lot of really uncomfortable topics you know we will talk about,
we’ll talk about sex we talk about conflict we talk about depression we talk about blending families and divorce and,
we talked about a lot of things that you won’t hear about in Sunday school that real couples are bumping into on a regular basis and it’s causing them struggle and reading the scriptures more and saying their prayers more isn’t going to necessarily,
take away the problem.

[9:57] So that’s that’s kind of our goal is to get people to real practical examples and tools and principles that they can rely on to take the relationship from wherever it is and get one step closer to Eternal Marriage,

[10:10] No do do do that because of your own expertise as a as an Uber couple or is this more what you will learn as you conduct interviews with others in your all kind of learning to get,
a collective efforts of you as host with guest all learning.

Mormon Marriages:
[10:27] It’s a it’s a little bit of both Nate did so much research on marriage and relationships before we even got married and I think as a couple weave,
General ridiculous amount of work really when it comes to making sure that we have a really good marriage and we’ve only been.

[10:45] Pause for a second defined a ridiculous amount of work what does that mean you listen out of work.

Mormon Marriages:
[10:51] Yeah we’re pretty much always in the middle of a relationship book we’ve taken trait like we’ve traveled out to Seattle and gone through a pretty intense training for the seven principles for making marriage work from The gottman Institute we’ve been to
workshops and Retreats together and
been trained at the at the feet of some of the like the top relationship and sex experts on the planet and I just I’m pretty sure that we have participated in conversations are been trained by
it’s a pretty incredible people who showed us the ropes and it we’ve been really fortunate to to have access to them and we’ve only been married for two and a half years so we’re still
kind of newbies at this we haven’t been through everything of putting the stuff into practice,
so that we do not preach what we do not practice right we we try really hard to practice what we preach and we heard once that the best mentors are people who are just a few steps ahead of you versus someone who’s got like,
70 years of experience or something decades and Decades of experience I think because they’re they’re at the point where they can still,
remember being in your shoes.

[12:01] We can relate Maria.

Mormon Marriages:
[12:02] And they can relate more and it’s a lot easier to imagine yourself a few steps ahead versus imagining yourself,
two decades down the line and so we try and be that that resources just a couple steps ahead
and when we’re putting into practice as we go and we try and be very open and honest with the work that we’re doing
and the lessons that we’re learning so whatever episodes we open up about maybe conflicts that we’ve had and how we navigated those conflicts and what we do to navigate this complex,
to give people real life examples of what what they can do in the same situation.

[12:41] Can I give you teased us there can you give me an example of a recent.

Mormon Marriages:
[12:44] I know we love to tease.

[12:47] Illustrate that.

Mormon Marriages:
[12:49] What’s a good one I’m at the Thai food one go ahead.

[12:56] What’s there to disagree with Thai food 1st Ave.

Mormon Marriages:
[12:57] Yeah so that’s that’s the thing that’s the thing so a couple months ago I planned an awesome date night we it was was like last fall,
we went to a corn maze I took my wife to a corn maze for a surprise date and then afterwards am I coming to take her to her favorite Thai restaurant and it’s going to be amazing if we go to the restaurant and she orders her favorite dish tom kha gai,
and this is amazing coconut cream soup and she was so excited about it and I ordered a different dish and my disc came out and I put a big scoop of rice on my plate and then put my my career whatever on top of the rice is ready to eat and I just,
the denied been so perfect if it’s so amazing I tried really hard to like,
let and do the work on the the corn maze and navigate and I just was in the backseat just enjoying watching her solve the puzzle and just like,
did we win Chicago long real well all night and then the moment I took a bite of that rice with the curry I just got this look of,
like I had just stabbed Angela in the heart,
and I was like what did I do wrong and I the rest of the like the rest of the tables around us we’re uncomfortable with just attention to the suddenly in the room and that the server.

[14:12] It’s very intense for having eaten about a Thai food and then Angela is throwing daggers at you with their eyes apparel.

Mormon Marriages:
[14:18] And the the server like didn’t want to spend any time at our table and like we we didn’t talk the entire rest of the night at the evening at the restaurant and then we got into the car and I was like honey what’s what’s going on.
why are we hanging should each other why are we not talking and it turns out like we had been eating up a pretty strict diet the last couple of my roommates request for my request,
I was like I want to lose some weight I want to get in shape and Angie had been such a champion she had been cooking these
really amazing meals that were really healthy and we were kind of cutting out carbs weeks and weeks of research and meal planning and just working really hard on our meals and making sure it was what Nate wanted what was the cut carbs and so,
for her me taking that big scoop of rice,
was like basically giving her the middle finger like you’re saying I don’t I don’t care about all the work and all the research and all of the effort that you put into helping a stick to the super healthy diet and meeting till I lose some weight and get back in shape and I in,
and it just doesn’t matter and it’s like it just hurt her and my side I’m like I just took you out on her amazing Dayton to get your favorite food and I can’t take a bite of rice,
and in that moment we had an opportunity to perpetuate the conflict or to route to turn towards each other and resolve it and we had learned some specific skills and,
we put into place our conflict management skills and.

[15:45] Before we left the parking before we left the parking lot we were kissing and looking into each other’s eyes and apologizing and we got past it and it seems like a small conflict but these these little conflict sometimes build up in people’s relationships,
and you the way that you respond to emotional pain is very similar to the way that you respond to physical pain like if you burn your hand on the stove or get poked by needle you pull away from the thing that causes you pain in any relationship if your partner hurts your feelings
or does something that’s painful tear you put you kind of pull away emotionally and I see a lot of couples especially in the church who,
don’t know how to make those repair attempts and over decades these little hearts just pull them farther and farther and farther apart and then when they get you know 7 years 10 years 25 years into the relationship they don’t know how to be close anymore,
they’ve never been able to talk to apologize to forgive and to become one again they’ve flinched away from each other so much that are complete strangers so.

[16:41] Do you feel like that’s an issue with its more prevalent in the Latter Day Saint Community vs. elsewhere or is it about the same in and out.

Mormon Marriages:
[16:49] That’s probably the same I would say it I would say it’s probably about the same the only thing that I would say is different about the LDS culture is,
we don’t,
but I’m saying this is a generalization obviously not everyone is this way but a lot of times when we search for relationship advice relationship information we kind of put ourselves in a box where we only look at LDS resources we only.

[17:13] What’s not that doesn’t sound not at all.

Mormon Marriages:
[17:16] That never happens Deseret Book maybe we go to a bishop or look for a manual on lds.org General Conference.

[17:28] Going to Bishop’s is my we could do a hold of you guys probably have.

Mormon Marriages:
[17:32] Oh yeah.

[17:33] We’re not trained in anything anyway.

Mormon Marriages:
[17:35] Yes but anyways Circle leaders there is a plethora of,
relationships research and so many amazing things that don’t necessarily come,
Wake Forest by the church or with the proper temp of approval and so we’re missing out on a lot of things when we just put ourselves in that box and we’ve done a lot with an hours and hours of the research and so we trying,
and bring it through of an Avenue that people are willing to approach because the title is Mormon marriages does that make sense.

[18:12] Yeah no I got a clue.

Mormon Marriages:
[18:14] So it’s a little bit more approachable maybe then going to a different secular source.

[18:21] Even though it’s so basically you’re incorporating secular teachings but you’re Trojan horsing it by calling it Mormon.

Mormon Marriages:
[18:27] I think truth is truth and essentially yes yes.

[18:33] You don’t want that issue obviously you started or we are two parties with Mormon in our name,
we both started these things before the greatest salt the greatest salt on all things Mormon do you guys feel any pressure to Rebrand.

Mormon Marriages:
[18:48] Yes there is absolute pressure.
About about once a week we get an email from somebody saying are you change your name or just somebody passive-aggressively being like I don’t know who I’m receiving emails from because he says Mormon and I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
and I’m like hahaha.

[19:10] Do you feel like it’s actually numbers or anything but you feel like it’s it’s,
it has caused issues even like your listener base do you think people have been less likely to approach your wonderful content because you’re not getting in line and renaming your show Latter-Day marriages or whatever else,
which we know is going to be like.

Mormon Marriages:
[19:30] Latter-Day lovers,
yeah I mean we’ve talked a lot about doing that.
We started this podcast before that it came out and it’s just it’s hard to Rebrand.

[19:47] Fathered in.

Mormon Marriages:
[19:48] And honestly a lot of our listener base I would say they are not going to be offended by that name but have been worried about much more important things reminded.

[20:02] And you would help.

Mormon Marriages:
[20:03] Yeah right if they’re not then they can go find relationship advice elsewhere they can go start their own.

[20:09] I’m not interested in your salvation you punk stay away
are we been we’ve been in the same boat to a lot of emails and comments and things like that thing would crack me up to something on Facebook would send us a message and I look at their Petty like their profile and it be sharing stuff for me like LDS living under some change their name but you’re a,
there’s a lot of there’s a lot of.

Mormon Marriages:
[20:30] Let’s go LDS living change it we we try and not use we try and use the name of the church and we try and avoid using Mormon in our interviews but I don’t think we will be changing the name anytime soon,
the nice to hear you say that something we’ve been wrestling with a little bit.

[20:47] Had the sauce about a conflict for which you.

Mormon Marriages:
[20:49] I really just an ongoing conversation without any tension.

[20:54] I don’t want to go back to the tire food incident but one thing that struck me in that story and I imagined you guys have something to elaborate upon with this so
angelyn did you know you were going to the Thai restaurant when you were in route
post corn maze Euphoria as you were back in the car essentially did you know what you were getting into as you were going there and why did you not want to address it before the fact cuz you know what the food would be present,
alright so.

Mormon Marriages:
[21:20] So he’s she surprised me with the typhoon the Thai food restaurant so I wasn’t I wasn’t,
prepared to talk about it prior but I had also been working on another,
relationships advice that I had received to not treat my husband like a child and to let him take care of himself and make his own decisions and we had already,
had previous conversations about this way of eating and
my opinion was we already talked about it so I’m going to let him make his own decision and it shocked me a little bit that he ate the rice,
tell me all about ants.

[22:03] I appreciate the shocked at this time please bear in mind I’m not genuinely diminishing anything you’re doing but I like this is about rice.

Mormon Marriages:
[22:11] Yeah can laugh about.

[22:13] We were joking about Popeyes and we started the show I like that’s the kind of thing if I went to Popeye’s my wife would be like you went to Popeye’s,
and that’s a legitimate thing to get him a case for a greasy fried chicken I like that you’re at such a level that Rice terrible rice which sustains malnourished children the world over.

Mormon Marriages:
[22:32] It was a very small it was a big conflict over a small thing but I think that’s very typical of a lot of.

[22:39] No it is very much as yeah.

Mormon Marriages:
[22:40] The nice thing about this situation is you can just kind of remove
the variable of dinner and rice and just insert whatever it is that you that is your silly conflict that you have in your marriage,
spent too much time on video games as what sports like President Nelson said in his last talk in priesthood session.

[23:06] But he fell but he fell short of just telling us to take a fast from it that was a little disappointing.

Mormon Marriages:
[23:12] You’re the only one who was disappointed.

[23:15] I don’t care on overtime.

Mormon Marriages:
[23:16] I don’t want you anyway yeah I’m not really.

[23:19] I don’t have time for that.

Mormon Marriages:
[23:20] But I think we share that story because there’s a couple things that we did that are kind of universal that you can apply to your own relationship and,
the simple things that we did to heal in that situation was number one we have what’s called a low negativity threshold,
and our marriage that’s the scientific term that means is that we don’t tolerate,
very much negativity in our relationship we try and solve it quick meaning,
for an analogy let’s say it’s like the dishes if you.
Do your dishes as soon as you dirty then it’s so much easier to get the food off and clean it versus leaving in the sink and letting things pile on over weeks and weeks,
and then at that point they’ve become moldy and disgusting and gross and it’s just a lot harder to clean up so our mentality is,
we clean it up music clean it up real time in the moment if not,
soon after and that keeps us from having this build of negativity like he was saying that increases your Gap overtime,
the Gap that you have in your relationship,
another principle that we use in a situation is the idea that an apology is not an admission of guilt.

[24:48] But rather an opportunity to heal a hurt from your partner so it’s so much easier to say sorry when you when you’re not saying because he didn’t mean to hurt my feelings he had no idea,
but that one scoop of rice would feel like a dagger in my soul of all the hard work and effort that I put into our meal plans kid annoyed he didn’t do it on purpose and I recognize that,
and so a lot of times when when situations like that happened saying sorry feels like why would I say sorry I didn’t do anything wrong,
but instead he was able to see even though I didn’t feel like I did anything wrong it’s still hurt angelyn so I can say sorry as,
feeling her wedding is playing the role of the savior in your relationship when you apologize you get to heal the wounds of your partner,
it has nothing to do with being the bad guy or being did the guilty criminal that did something wrong and it has everything to do with you being able to literally play the role of the Savior and heal your partner’s hurts and what a cool explain an awesome gift,
what an awesome gift if your partner is hurting because of something you said or did by accident or a tone of voice that you use to be able to turn around and say I didn’t mean to cause you pain I’m so sorry,
until it’s over it’s done and they’re healed that’s usually what people need when they’re hurting is just to acknowledge.

[26:16] They get it that yes you’re hurting I’m sorry I didn’t mean to like a few we say this all the time if you’re in a crowd and you step on somebody’s toes,
you didn’t mean to step on their toes but usually will turn around and be like I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to do that so why aren’t we willing to do that for the one that we love most we’re willing to do that for a stranger that we’ve never met before,
but we’re not willing to do that,
what are spouse so that’s that’s the second principal and then the third principal look at you just realized we use Scripts,
when when we do Conflict Management to use scripts but they work and the script that we use with each other,
and brene brown actually taught this just barely and we just wonder validated when we have Conflict Management what we say is,
the story I’m telling myself is you don’t care about all the hard work and effort that I put into,
doing the male plants and so when I do that I’m taking responsibility for my perspective of the situation.

[27:32] And not blaming Nate that makes sense so I’m not saying you did that and then I get to confirm or deny the story whether or not it’s true and I be like no babe,
I love and appreciate you so much for all that stuff that you did I just didn’t think a scoop of rice is that big a deal I’m so sorry I didn’t mean it would mean that much and then reality,
and two people can be in the same situation have a completely different perspective and so by saying the story I’m telling myself is,
you’re taking full responsibility for your own perception so that’s what we used in the kitchen.

[28:12] I don’t need to ever see you guys got the show but I’ve already figured out man.

Mormon Marriages:
[28:16] Are you the master the master of disaster you’re a freaking relationship Jedi.

[28:20] I’m not a master I guess my Approach I feel like my wife and I have a pretty solid relationship we don’t let stuff like faster things like.

Mormon Marriages:
[28:26] Yeah.

[28:27] I’m more I’m more of you like I pretty much all the time just like thanks thanks for everything you’re doing thanks for this thanks.

Mormon Marriages:
[28:33] Gratitude is a big win.

[28:34] It’s probably Overkill I think I try to let gratitude banquet that was that way when I screw up I’m like I’m already it’s like it’s like your driving record you know you can get positive points in some states and so keep that back paws.

Mormon Marriages:
[28:47] There’s science about the the bank account
the love bank account today that the research shows that the happiest and most fulfilled couples have a 20 to 1 ratio of positive to negative interactions and it during times of conflict the racial draft down to five,
positive interactions to everyone negative interaction even and even conflict in the most miserable marriage is the ones that typically end in divorce are about a one-to-one ratio.
So how many positive interactions if you use expressing lots of gratitude manual fill in that bank account and making withdrawal isn’t as big of a deal as if you’re in the deficit.

[29:22] Encroaching makes you happier anyway because I think in marriage and marriage is like you know like you said there’s all the little things and it’s so easy to get wrapped up and,
random little annoyances that happened just part of life that happens right,
I’ll be the first to admit there’s times that I come home from work and my wife’s been here working hard all day with our kids which is crazy taxing and difficult she’s got all her all her own agenda items to work with,
sometimes I’m at walking the door in the house it looks like a bomb went off and you know it’s just whatever end of thoughts come to your mind or like again.

Mormon Marriages:
[29:57] Why did you do all day.

[29:59] I don’t think it’s wrong to have that fleeting thought but it’s really more of a question of what do you articulate after-the-fact dudes take a breath and just say not worried about it and that’s what I,
try I’m not,
but I think for the most part I try to just be happy to be home with kids and just a my wife always says I’m like I’m sorry sorry about the house and all you can say is like that you’re good it’s fine.

Mormon Marriages:
[30:25] We’re going to have you on the podcast now we could do a whole gratitude gratitude.

[30:28] I’m not perfect about this but I have found that like I’m sure you’ve talked about keeping score that’s the thing you can’t keep.

Mormon Marriages:
[30:33] I guess if you’re not if you’re not perfect at it I guess we can’t have you on the show.

[30:37] That’s fair I’m fine it’s fine I mean.

Mormon Marriages:
[30:39] We only have perfect people on X show.

[30:41] That that’s a shame because of General Conference recently Mr and a we learned very clearly that’s not about being perfect and so.

Mormon Marriages:
[30:48] Man I must have slept through that talk.

[30:51] Mormon brand it show with I don’t know about that but speaking of Latter Day Saints do you find there what issues have you dealt with especially in your show,
what do you say it’s Unique for Latter Day Saint couples compared to,
elsewhere right well I’m sure there are particular issues or areas that are a little bit more salient.

Mormon Marriages:
[31:14] Yeah I think there’s a couple of things that come to mind one with that kind of comes up over and over and over again is,
does all kind of Blends together into a couple different points but they’re I think one thing that were not very good at as I heard a sayings is having boundaries in her marriage,
and when I say boundaries let me let me rewind and kind of talk about the symptoms of a lack of boundaries the symptoms of a lack of boundaries are feeling burned out,
feeling resentment feeling frustration towards people especially towards your partner feeling like,
you’re just really stressed and overwhelmed all the time,
and like you feel a lot of pressure to get everything done in like you have no time or energy to do it all,
that those are like the big symptoms of a lack of boundaries and.

[32:09] What is that mean what’s that mean what is the lack of boundaries what is that those are symptoms what’s the what’s the disease.

Mormon Marriages:
[32:15] So so the DZ did it any disease comes from an angel instead of perfectly the dejoy acronym,
and young women’s in this is specific for women that again generalized a lot of times were told about,
sacrifice and serving others and that if you’re serving others all your problems will just go away to put your partner’s needs before your needs to be taken care of when acronym that I hear taught all the time,
is this this idea of the word joy joy.

[32:53] That’s how you spell Joy yes.

Mormon Marriages:
[32:54] Yes right first you serve Jesus then you serve others,
then you serve yourself and I find this so frustrating because you can’t,
serve somebody else without having your own thankful like you can’t feel somebody else’s cup of your cup is empty,
and so I don’t like this idea of being self-sacrificing to the point where you are literally running on an empty tank and we see this so much and a lot of time,
for women if they’re feeling resentful of their spouse if they’re feeling like you’re not getting any help around the house if they are,
you know just not happy and upset usually it means that there is some.

[33:49] Some amount of a lack of self-care.

[33:53] They’re not taking care of themselves they’re not doing something for them self that makes them happy or not taking responsible responsibility for their own well-being,
bright so the concept of boundaries with regards to Angelina saying is a boundary is supposed to let all the good things out a good good things and keep the bad things out.

[34:10] And a lot of times what happens inside the church is it’s like okay well I need to I need to help my,
my kids with their Eagle Scout project and their young women’s in excellence and I need to fulfill my calling and I need to make dinner for the neighbors and I need to plan so until his wedding and,
I need to make sure that my husband is happy and satisfied in every way and I need to make sure that we’re getting our homework done and we’re getting straight A’s,
I need to make sure that my Instagram profile looks really great and my house is perfectly clean,
all this pressure to do all of these things and I’ve got the PTA and I’ve got this volunteer thing and sister so until asked me if I could take care of you know this volunteer opportunity and
they say yes to everything because they’ve got the joy mentality Jesus other self and it’s,
Jesus I love Jesus I love Jesus others and they get to this point where they start they could they keep giving and giving but they giving stops coming from a place of generosity,
and starts coming from a place of resentment and there’s like I can’t give anymore but I’m going to keep giving any more obligation obligation yeah,
and so are creating boundaries means being able to say no to some things in order to protect the things that are most important to you,
so if your marriage your relationship with your children your relationship with Christ are the very are the most important things sometimes you have to say no to really good things sometimes you have to say you know what.

[35:26] I don’t think I have the bandwidth to go do my ministering assignment this month and I know it’s important,
and maybe I’ll just send a text instead of paying a visit because what I really need to do is spend my husband’s got a busy calling it a busy job and I need to just take an evening and go for a walk and tonight is my only chance,
maybe I need to say no to planning the Christmas dinner for the ward,
yeah or maybe maybe I can’t go you know volunteer at my friend’s wedding and spend an entire evening over there maybe what I really need to do is like,
get a certain project taken care of or sit down and just connect with my kid why I haven’t talked to them feeling distant from or just take a bubble bath and take a deep breath and like relax for 20 minutes.

[36:06] But there are there are just there a lot of it I find it particularly common with women but it happens a lot with men as well that they’re walking through their life and they’re not happy and they’re feeling like they’re doing all the right things,
and I’m feeling burned out and they’re feeling a sense of powerlessness,
they’re feeling like if I’m doing all the right things and serving all the people and doing a no-fault only my calling and I’m still miserable what’s the deal.

[36:32] And I think that we would do very well to learn a little bit more about boundaries so now there’s a lot of great resources out there there’s a great book called Boundaries and by McCloud and Townsend,
and they wrote a book specifically called Boundaries in marriage if you want something to specific for the for that we’ve got I’ve got a podcast on the Levee Metairie,
about boundaries with John Townsend and there’s a lot of other really great resources out there to start learning about the stuff and it’s just not something that we talked about but it is something,
that God teaches God God makes agreements with us and a lot of those agreements have conditions,
God says no to things think of all the times Joseph Smith went to God and said hey can I can I do this thing can I do this thing can I do this thing and he’s like no,
no not a good idea you know with the children of Israel like he gave them limits,
and sometimes we feel like we can’t give other people limit and we can’t say no to other people but we find it in the Savior we find in the prophets we find it in God in the Old Testament New Testament and the Book of Mormon
play God has limits and God says no and it’s okay for us to say no sometimes too.

[37:42] That’s one thing I think another aspect of this idea of serving and self-sacrifice is we we have almost,
lost the ability to ask for what we want and to be okay for verbalizing our desires because,
it’s selfish so instead we try to we try to manipulate others into giving us what we want like for example,
if I want need to help me with the dishes and he’s sitting down,
at the table maybe I start cleaning the dishes really loud and like sign.

[38:28] My grandma’s play but can you just tell her no no no no no I’ve got it no no no no.

Mormon Marriages:
[38:31] I got it I don’t I’ll do it myself and so we manipulate others into feeling guilt or feeling like they need to help us instead of just saying hey honey I’d really love some help with the dishes.

[38:43] But what about Nate want you stepping up man.

Mormon Marriages:
[38:45] He should do.

[38:46] Your job is to just know stand up.

Mormon Marriages:
[38:47] I should just know my mind do you know what’s really weird is when I got married I really expected to be given the gift of telepathy,
and to know that the thoughts and yearnings and desires of my wife’s heart and I just must not have been righteous enough cuz I did not get back yet,
I did not get the gift of mind reading so unfortunately my wife,
and it’s really it’s really a shame maybe if I had been her righteous but she has to ask for what she wants,
I’ll even ask for acknowledgement like I’ll go and I’ll bring him into the bedroom and be like look honey,
I folded all the laundry will you say thank you and I go oh my gosh look at all the laundry it’s so folded in amazing you’re so great.

[39:37] Do you guys have like Nest cams or anything your house to come want to hack it.

Mormon Marriages:
[39:41] She want to hack any watching some people might be listening.

[39:45] Do we need a reality show with you.

Mormon Marriages:
[39:46] Guys so you might be listening and thinking like you guys are cheesy like this is stupid I don’t want to do that but yeah like,
it’s reality too and we’re we’re not perfect we’re not perfect but but like as cheesy as it is it works,
asking for what you want and I’d rather be Chad rather be cheesy and happy then then not cheesy and and boring and miserable,
but the most guaranteed way for you to not get what you want is to not ask for it but. Does give you the opportunity to complain about not getting it after you don’t get it and then making it hard.

[40:23] Now we do say you do say no it’s good to ask for things but likewise does someone being asked if something reserve the right to refuse the request without,
recrimination what if.

Mormon Marriages:
[40:35] Not not always a termination.

[40:36] Angelyn what if you say what are you saying Nick could you come to the dishes and he’s just like I don’t really want to I’m being honest with you what do you do then do you accept that,
and move on or do you say it but I’m telling you what I thought you couldn’t get into a bit of a cycle on an endless loop but.

Mormon Marriages:
[40:53] This will take us and Arapahoe what are you doing you know that’s a really good question I don’t know if that’s something we’ve bumped into.

[40:59] I want to know what point you hit him with something that’s what I’m trying to.

Mormon Marriages:
[41:02] I mean only when I ask for it.

[41:09] Please would you please hit me right now.

Mormon Marriages:
[41:11] That’s a good question I don’t know if we’ve ever been part of it is before like if I say no it when Angela asks for something and can’t get it part of.

[41:23] Part of it has to come from that I can say no gently or I could say no like a jerk I could say honey I’m sorry I’m in the middle of something can you give me 10 minutes and I’ll be happy to come help you or I can just be like nope I’m not doing that and,
that’s that’s on me how I handle that and also there’s a part of what she experiences which is like she’s going to have emotions and she gets to own those emotions regardless of how I would answer I give her so remember when we were talking about our perception,
being our reality something that I’m working on that I’ve been working on a lot lately and I’m still not perfect at it is,
always assuming that Nate has good intentions for what he does so,
before if he would say no I would half and puff and tell myself all these stories that you didn’t love me and that he I wasn’t a priority for him and all these things but lately what I’ve been trying to do is if he says no,
I tell myself that he has a good reason for that that there’s a he’s probably in the middle of something and I think that takes a lot of practice,
and a lot of intentionality so easy and I can’t say that I do it perfectly but,
I’m I’m trying to give them use a lot of the doubt try and at rest it makes a big difference and to just put more trust into my husband and if I ask him for something that I want.

[42:48] To trust that you have my best interest in mind and that he’s going to find a way to get give me that even if it’s not in a way that I would do it,
like something I relinquished early on in the marriages he puts the cups,
in the cupboard right side up and I always grew up putting the cups in the cupboard,
and so to me it’s wrong to put the cups in,
right away but I’ve learned that,
nobody’s going to die if the cups are in the cupboard right side up and I’d much rather him do the dishes and be grateful for him doing the dishes and tell him how to do the dishes,
Sure Fire way of him never ever wanted to do the dishes ever again is to tell him that he’s doing it wrong so which we also experienced that once.

[43:37] How did you guys a anyway what’s the story of Your World.

Mormon Marriages:
[43:43] I walked out of the temple one day and she was walking in now that the mop and Singles Ward camping,
on the dance floor at me and I said okay I will I will let you get him,
mainly because he was 7 years older than me and soft limits friendzone I did not think anything of dating him.

[44:12] Then why did you wink at him that’s that’s just a Big T’s Angela.

Mormon Marriages:
[44:16] I was in the groove dancing and I just was in the moment and I we made eye contact and I don’t know what came over me and I’d already came over her.

[44:27] Raw passion that’s what it was or the.

Mormon Marriages:
[44:28] The spirit you you fell in love with the beard I did.
Yeah so we became really good friends and watch Survivor every week together and played keep talking and nobody explodes.

[44:45] I’m not familiar with this one.

Mormon Marriages:
[44:47] Game game where you defuse bombs together,
online person is a bomb defuser and then everybody else playing has Emmanuel and in the bomb diffuser have to communicate the puzzles I’m on the bomb,
and the the people with the manuals have to walk to walk to diffuser through the steps of how to like what wires to cut what buttons to push in what order did the fuse bombs real quick.

[45:14] But but engine still getting into this obviously Nate you’ve already had kind of your background where you gone off and started getting very involved in inhalation,
interviewing people on traveling the country so what was it like on your end angelyn coming into this did you was her party it’s like dude this guy’s intense,
relationship stuff like I have to read most people don’t assume they’re going to get into a relationship with somebody was that invested in the mechanics and.

Mormon Marriages:
[45:40] Well additionally I was really intimidated thinking that,
Nate would have super unrealistic expectations of relationships cuz he had done all this research but the more I got to know him and the more I became friends with him we have these conversations I realized that he had the most realistic View,
of relationships from the research City done than anyone I’ve met before he was like he knew what relationships look like,
and I remember one instance in particular we were it was when we were still just friends woo him myself and another one of her friends was down in his basement and they had just gotten back from a date,
and he kind of
started venting his frustrations with dating how he’s been trying so hard to better himself and he’s been trying so hard to crack the code of what made a relationship work and he,
just wanted somebody to play the game with him that’s what his words are he just wanted somebody to jump on board and be as excited about this stuff is he was and I remember in that moment,
thinking I want to play the game like,
I want this to be my dream to like I love I love the picture that he was painting of the wife that he wanted and in that moment,
it became my dream as well and that’s what you looked at me and said will you have my babies it scared me because I.

[47:07] Can’t wait to see where the show is when that happens too by the way.

Mormon Marriages:
[47:09] Yeah it’s only fun fun.

[47:13] Whenever you guys if and when you decide to do that that’ll be.

Mormon Marriages:
[47:15] Right yeah so I married into this but it’s very much become a mutual dream,
I I loved I loved hearing.
What he wanted out of life and what he wanted us to hang out with people like you and honestly.

[47:36] Are you sucking up again.

Mormon Marriages:
[47:37] I know but I am but I’m being honest like we’ve met some incredible people through the work that Nate does through the podcast together.

[47:50] She runs it though number don’t forget.

Mormon Marriages:
[47:52] Should I do it if you want to read some awesome blog posts go check out the Mormon marriages blog.

[47:57] What’s it what’s the URL tell our listeners.

Mormon Marriages:
[48:00] Marriage has its Mormon marriages., sorry did you want me to finish that change one. Com,
and you in the blog is essentially just our podcast episodes that are accompanied with sorrow true
podcast sound like is transcribed it’s beautiful thoughts on your break I like to write an article on with all the podcast that are really great and I think a lot of people who listen to the show miss out on the article and it’s real good.

[48:31] Look at this beautiful Squarespace website you have.

Mormon Marriages:
[48:33] You like the Squarespace website.

[48:35] What’s good man looks better than mine.

Mormon Marriages:
[48:38] Naturally beautiful.

[48:41] No it’s fair I’ve never had a great website for twins.

Mormon Marriages:
[48:43] It’s what what’s what’s on the inside that matters.

[48:46] Yeah but is that a smattering Juno SEO quality and all that garbage,
fun fun times like that the batteries are just an interesting gang aren’t they may lead off with her so I actually know Nate’s brother I was in the same ward as setting this up I just got in touch
we got in touch and Bug be fun to have have you guys on the show and then when I saw some mutual friends on Facebook I was like,
and then I saw you Nate realize you I can see the family resemblance up.

Mormon Marriages:
[49:14] I’m a fat or hear your version of Joshua.

[49:17] I wasn’t I wasn’t going to be the one to say it but sure if you want if you want to go out that way I mean you’re the marriage expert he’s an expert in old people it’s great you guys have.

Mormon Marriages:
[49:24] Yeah right we need to be as well.

[49:28] It’s like you’re handling the now how to build towards the eternities and he handles these kind of handle him to hand over.

Mormon Marriages:
[49:31] On the way out.

[49:38] What do you guys have obviously you’re producing blogs podcasts,
do you guys ever like gather with listeners do you have any any things going on I know sometimes you give away books and stuff. Like a thing are you promoting any big events anything happening right now.

Mormon Marriages:
[49:55] Would you have some really cool stuff coming up so I I also run the website Utah date night. Com so this is specifically for people in the Utah area but
anybody listening from Utah go to Utah tonight. Calm and we’ve got some fun date night events that were planning that are kind of a great alternative to dinner and a movie.

[50:12] Let’s look at this oh look at your headshot sir my goodness.

Mormon Marriages:
[50:16] I don’t know I don’t know if I’m updated it to the new landing page yet but by the time this goes live it’ll.

[50:20] No you did you look great so what it what is one do with you today night.

Mormon Marriages:
[50:26] So the the whole premise is we want to give you a night of entertainment and education so the the two events we’ve got coming up the theme is keeping the magic alive so we’ve got a
professional magician coming in to entertain and Delight you and then we’ve got some of the top experts in the state actually in the nation who are their amazing one of them is me and one of them is Laura hack,
she’s a certified gottman therapist and we’re going to share some thoughts about how to keep the lie that magic alive in your relationship and we give away tons of awesome prizes and really great desserts and he will be physically fed and you will be relationally fed.

[50:59] And I see this is by the Jiffy Lube in Draper that appears to be its location.

Mormon Marriages:
[51:05] Oh that’s a that’s a workshop we got coming up yet seven principles Workshop but these two will be the one in Utah County’s going to be at the UVU ballroom and the one up in in Davis County is going to be at the ballroom and weep at Weber State University so.

[51:20] Did your living at man.

Mormon Marriages:
[51:22] We’re living the dream so come hang out with us if you if you enjoy this interview would love to see you face to face,
we got some really cool ideas coming up as well for some some online challenges and courses
getting those out for him for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints community.

[51:43] For the restored member the restored members of the testimony of truth or what,
are you guys able to quantify your success. Quantify like the numbers for your podcast but as far as relationships are very qualitative innocence right,
how does one just before we go how does one measure success and I think it’s obviously if you just see Improvement in a broadly speaking term but like when you go to the steps I’ll leave you guys seem to be very structured with way you approach these things is there a way we like to avoid,
checklist something is Latter Day Saints we have a,
Temple tendency in our discipleship to sort of embrace checklist when we shouldn’t but at the same time you know steps can be really important so how do we actually like measure.

Mormon Marriages:
[52:25] I’d say really a really good Benchmark is to just take it take it take a minute and think about how often you’re passionately kissing each other honestly.

[52:36] Soul kissing is we could call it yes or preterite the late fee.

Mormon Marriages:
[52:38] Persol kissing and with with with mild to heavy petting.

[52:43] If your married already everybody all right nothing crazy.

Mormon Marriages:
[52:47] But I would say the frequency to with which you are making out is a pretty good indicator of the status of your relationship if it’s been awhile since you had something Beyond two pack maybe it’s time to take a limit or have your relationship.

[53:00] No I don’t I don’t want to dwell on on that sex is important to not do you actually mean just you asking like how long has it been since you got more than a pic or you actually saying how long has it been since you’d like just made out and you didn’t take it a step further which are you who are you trying to hold it on.

Mormon Marriages:
[53:12] Bright and early talking about making out like cuz it that as a married couple that shows a lot just to be able to sit and kiss each other means you like.

[53:24] I think it’s a really good point cuz I think I found I think a lot of people are going to get married you don’t you make out a ton before you get married.

Mormon Marriages:
[53:30] Oh yeah.

[53:31] I didn’t get married and there’s other exciting stuff you can engage in and so while there’s kissing and such you don’t spend hours making out anymore because you just don’t do that and so I.

Mormon Marriages:
[53:40] Yeah you hear of yeah you hear of people who are absolutely unhappy in their marriages if they’re still popping out babies so I’m not going to lie kissing I think is a more intimate experience in many ways than sex.
You and you can have disconnected.

[53:56] This is a whole new episode now okay.

Mormon Marriages:
[53:57] Yeah you can have disconnected sex but it’s really hard to make out with somebody and in like check out mentally like you have to be engaged I think another another way you can measure success,
again qualitatively is simply peace of mind.
I think a lot of times if there is Discord in your relationship,
there’s a lot of anxiety a lot of stress a lot of worry even if it’s not things pertaining to the relationship,
the one thing I’ve noticed between me and I when we can we can overcome a hurdle or overcome a conflict there’s just a sense of Peace like,
we don’t have to worry about anyting we know we can trust the other person and yeah,
I want dancing around if you feel like you’ve got some of that action going on there’s some work to be done alone negativity threshold,
it’s hard to remember what we were even fighting about we got rid of it all right I’ll bust we fight all the time. How do I get rid of that we recorded in only 52 minutes.

[55:11] That’s what always happens on the show Don’t Worry Be.

Mormon Marriages:
[55:12] OK Google.

[55:14] You know how many episodes of twin of actually clocked in under 40 minutes.

Mormon Marriages:
[55:18] Not not that many.

[55:20] I can actually tell you this one my sure I guess as long as the listeners are happy I mean for all I know.

Mormon Marriages:
[55:26] I’m glad we’re not an I just glad we’re not an anomaly.

[55:29] Now you’re you guys are doing fine this is a beautifully blanked episode in case you’re worried about this is great but we’ll call it here I want to thank,
angelyn and Angela and by the way wonderfully Utada name I’m sure you know this angelynn with the Y.

Mormon Marriages:
[55:43] Right.

[55:45] I mean I didn’t before we talk and I didn’t know if it was from Utah I kind of assumed you were not to be rude but I.

Mormon Marriages:
[55:49] We might be my dream Jeff is to have three boys named Braxton Paxton in Jackson,
no thanks but it’s interesting my siblings are Amy Abby and Matt and then there’s angelyn.

[56:03] She got the fun name I mean no offense to them but I mean.

Mormon Marriages:
[56:05] It’s true I like my name.

[56:07] I mean other than Matt.

Mormon Marriages:
[56:11] Yeah.

[56:12] Well I like your name to great stuff you guys are doing great stuff over there so I hope all of you listeners will go check out there podcast you just published a regular publishing schedule or is it.

Mormon Marriages:
[56:22] Every other week.
Again it’s kind of a hobby so sometimes we’re not exactly on schedule but yeah you really every other week,
we just had a great conversation with,
a gentleman who struggled with opiate addiction opioid addiction and he provides a lot of great resources for family members of those who might be struggling with addiction how they can support them,
I have an interview coming up with a couple who has been struggling with infertility and adopting a child,
just lots of really great stuff coming up so.

[57:00] Gotham are you doing good.

Mormon Marriages:
[57:02] As are you happy to be a part of your shell.

[57:03] So I’m going to go to a Mormon marriages. Calm and I believe you can subscribe and iTunes and Google and all.

Mormon Marriages:
[57:09] This is true you can find podcast.

[57:11] Anywhere you find podcast to take the time to hang out with me tonight preciate it.
And this ends our episode for the week thank you very much for tuning and everybody once again as I always request visit us online give us that sweet web traffic that nectar
the drives us and makes us so happy I don’t join us on social media I haven’t plugged that but you know Facebook Twitter Instagram we are there we publish more than just podcast we have extensive blogging original content that we put up and we hope you all
take the time to appreciate that and interact with us on there be part of the Greater Twin family otherwise,
much appreciation to get the batteries for a sitting down with me and I hope all of you have a terrific rest of your weekend that you had a great Easter and that everything is going your way so until we talk to you again next week it will be another show,
yeah it should happen,
here’s hoping it’ll be well be holy and be happy.

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