EP 451 – Samuel the Lamanite Was Balthazar. Change My Mind.

BYU-Idaho stops accepting Medicaid and the backlash is real. A new Nativity video is AMAZING. New conference sessions. And were the Three Wise Men Nephites?

[dropcap]D[/dropcap]evin Thorpe, the nicest person alive and host of Your Mark on the World with Devin Thorpe, is in the guest seat today. We love you, Devin!

Arguably the biggest story this week is BYU-Idaho’s decision to stop accepting Medicaid, the government-sponsored health care plan for low-income individuals and families. University policy requires students to have a form of health insurance, and without Medicaid, some students are required to purchase BYU’s more expensive health care plan. What is the deal here folks? Update since time of recording: BYU-Idaho has rescinded the policy.

Check out this new Nativity video, The Christ Child. The Church has gone to enormous lengths to make it as historically accurate as possible, and we dare say, it might be the best Nativity video ever produced by anyone ever. Period.

Related to that, apparently there is a faith-affirming legend that the Three Wise Men are actually Samuel the Lamanite, Nephi, and Lehi. Yes. This is real. Google it!

Mormons love Disney, so it should come as no surprise that Google search traffic over the past year has shown Utah to be, far and away, the U.S. state with the most interest in Disney+, the recently released streaming service.

Peggy Fletcher Stack has a new article about polygamy, particularly how the practice remains an eternal principle within Mormonism even if it’s currently illegal. Moreover, men may be sealed to two women at the same time while all parties are still alive. What does this mean for Latter-day Saint women who are uncomfortable with the practice?

Since the October General Conference, we’ve been speculating what the upcoming 2020 General Conference “unlike any other” might entail. We got a small peek into that this week when the First Presidency announced that instead of a Women’s Meeting or Priesthood Session on Saturday night, there will be a Saturday evening session for everyone age 11 and up, and the letter hints at the proceedings focusing on the Restoration. Who knows if this is a permanent change or not.

The Church has been involved in essential charity work of late. In Cambodia, it has been improving hospitals, this hot off the heels of announcing an amazing-looking temple. In Papua New Guinea, the Church has helped provide beds. In addition, the Church donated over 20 tons of food to the Texas Food Bank. Oklahoman Latter-day Saints have partnered with other faith organizations to grab headstone information for the sake of larger genealogical  records.

With the holiday season upon us, Temple Square in Salt Lake City becomes a hotbed of activity, some Christmas-related, some not. For those interested, the famous lights on Temple Square will turn on this coming Friday, November 29. Across, the street, at the Church History Museum, a new exhibit celebrating women’s suffrage in Utah is running until 2021. Utah was among the first territories to grant women the right to vote, nearly 50 years before the U.S. government did the same. The famous Giving Machines that started at the Joseph Smith Memorial Building have now rolled out to other locations.

Thanks for tuning in. Please subscribe, and if you have a spare $1 per month, consider supporting us on Patreon.


Geoff Openshaw:
[0:00] Dearly beloved,
we are gathered here today to enjoy another iteration of this week in Mormons the original Latter Day Saints news podcast and arguably the greatest one,
that is headed by a man who doesn’t live in Utah that’s my intro I don’t live in Utah.
Devon’s always very respectful he doesn’t laugh with me this week everybody.

Devin Thorpe:
[0:27] It is a thrill and an honor to be with you Geoff thank you very much for having me.

Geoff Openshaw:
[0:34] A joy to have you my friend Happy Happy Thanksgiving week to you nice of you to take some time with the holidays coming right up.

Devin Thorpe:
[0:39] Well I am excited to to do is I love doing this even my wife as we were chatting an hour ago over dinner she said you love doing this this will be good so be good glad you’re doing this tonight she’s right I do love it.

Geoff Openshaw:
[0:52] Well I’m glad you love it I mean sometimes I don’t even love it so you can hear your positive energy can carry the day.

Devin Thorpe:
[1:00] Thank you. I look forward to it.

Geoff Openshaw:
[1:02] But I feel okay right now I’m not in a bad mood about twin today there are sometimes when I’m not in the mood to do it and then I get there but today I feel great I feel good I feel great I feel wonderful.

Devin Thorpe:
[1:12] There’s a lot of interesting news to talk about this week.

Geoff Openshaw:
[1:15] Yeah there’s certainly a lot of interesting things that happened last week we had of course a very very big show all kinds of crazy stuff went down last weekend some of that bled over,
into this week before we get to any of that though I just want to check in with Devin and see what’s going on with you personally and professionally to give us give us an update on what’s,
happened since we last spoke to you.

Devin Thorpe:
[1:35] Oh God.
No not much new I am winding up my my show I’m on episode 1188 aired today,
and we’ll have in 1189 on Wednesday and 1190 on Friday and we’ll we’ve got just ten after them we just have 10 after that so.

Geoff Openshaw:
[2:00] Well yeah I mean I never wanted to be winding down such a long project.

Devin Thorpe:
[2:05] It it’s it’s been interesting the and maybe it will come back,
but when I made the decision it was it was sort of it reminded me of me I hate to say this it it sounds so melodramatic but it it felt the same,
as when I lost my parents it was I will not lie it was a very dark feeling,
but I’ve moved on I’m excited for the next thing whatever that whatever comes,
and you don’t see it will be great whatever it is I’m not worried.

Geoff Openshaw:
[2:46] Yeah I mean there’s been many times when I have thought about hanging up to him you know we’re finishing up 10 years here in January,
so I was inside you know for someone else has been doing something for so long I think it’s interesting to get your feedback on that don’t worry about them not planning on,
ending it anytime immediately soon by any means but the one I know Devin doing great stuff and he’s moving on to something else maybe someday I too will have to move on to something else.

Devin Thorpe:
[3:16] Just bigger and better that’s all it will ever be Geoff bigger and better.

Geoff Openshaw:
[3:19] I will get I will get into venture capital.

[3:26] That is what I will do I will sell out I will work for the Goldman Sachs office in Salt Lake City,
and I will move to Utah I will become one of you I will find a nice piece of property in Draper above the inversion layer because I am quality and that will be how I live.

Devin Thorpe:
[3:46] There you go can’t wait to hang out with you more chance they’ll be great.

Geoff Openshaw:
[3:51] It’ll be a dream we go to Beto’s.

Devin Thorpe:
[3:54] And we can we can record twin episodes in the same room.

Geoff Openshaw:
[3:59] It’s that’s a minority for this production yeah I can probably count less than I think two hands are less the number of times a twin show has been done with both all parties involved in the same room,
been very very rare that’s including l l and I probably two lesson 5 Joe’s together in person,
over 10 years so thank you internet. I’m so thankful for the internet I’m thankful for zencastr that lets us talk a record it’s just you know we have blessings all around this time of year,
will reflect more on our blessings I think I think it’s very easy to.
Ponder those things that hopefully be a little bit more conscious of them and one of those things I don’t know if you seen the new Nativity video that the church is just released a couple days ago.

Devin Thorpe:
[4:44] Yeah I was you know I had not spotted that until today I saw it on your list of topics and I watched a few minutes of that brilliantly shot it just you know absolute hollett Hollywood Pinos type production.

Geoff Openshaw:
[4:59] The other churches. It’s kind of funny thinking back what less than 20 years ago and we are making the Testaments we come a little ways.

Devin Thorpe:
[5:07] Oh my gosh yes yeah.

Geoff Openshaw:
[5:10] This is but if you’re not familiar with it listener so,
the videos called the Christ child of the church hinted out of a little while ago but it dropped over the weekend and it is it is Devin sent to fabulously done wonderful production values,
even down to a lot more what you could even say nitpicky,
thanks like the fact they speak Aramaic in this film they don’t subtitle at either the director said they didn’t want to because they didn’t know what the dialog actually was at the time right so why just make up dialogue between the characters
let them speak in Aramaic and if you speak Aramaic then you can figure it out but we all know the story well enough and you get the gist of it enough that it makes sense of course,
that that detail is really cool and there’s a great piece at the church news that,
the gets into a lot more of the details about how they tried to make this historically accurate how they consulted so many scholars historians they really try to recreate
the dress and the language and all those things so that it was completely immersive they didn’t employ church at actors or LDS actors maybe some
find the free sample of a man playing Josephus Jewish I believe they probably tried to get people who are native to,
the realm to play the the characters are people who speak Aramaic today I’m not sure if they necessarily grabbed all of them cuz a lot of them are also in Syria which is a kind of a tough pull right now,

[6:38] It says it’s wonderfully don’t even down to the wise men in the Latter Day Saint tradition showing up when Jesus is basically a toddler he probably three or four,
Sunday show that sequence is beautifully shot they do also,
the director also said that it was, at the time for shepherding to be a family business women were involved in this so the shepherd’s there’s women among them who,
how would you support it.

Devin Thorpe:
[7:05] And beautiful beautiful the way they shot that as well I love that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[7:09] And one of the last ones I love is that they’d have a better understanding of no room at the end cuz obviously,
we know the Nativity Story it’s always they go to Bethlehem and Joseph is frantically knocking on doors and disgruntled innkeeper’s won’t let him in right until finally one of them says find you can go be with the animals
they tell us the Bethlehem was built on a hillside of limestone caves and people actually rebuild their homes in front of the caves are inlets and then use the caves it’s places to keep animals in hay and things like,
so the argument according to an interpretation of the scriptures of the Greek translation
is that when they went to Bethlehem Joseph and Mary sought to stay with Joseph’s family
because many people were going to Bethlehem to pay taxes it’s likely that Joseph’s home was filled with guests and there was no room available in the upper room or guest chamber which is sort of what implies the end,
which method that Joseph and Mary retreated to the privacy and comfort of the family’s table in this case a limestone cave
hi near the family home for delivery of the baby and I love the quote from the directory says the whole tradition revolves around the idea that they must have gone to a lot of ins and got turned away and there was a mean Innkeeper but none of that stuff is in the scriptures,

Devin Thorpe:
[8:20] Yeah.

Geoff Openshaw:
[8:22] Cool details here and it’s just beautifully made.

Devin Thorpe:
[8:24] Geoff can I share my favorite Faith promoting rumor.

Geoff Openshaw:
[8:33] Always always always we welcome rumors on the show.

Devin Thorpe:
[8:36] So have this relates directly to the to the story and to that point that you highlighted of Jesus being a toddler when the wise men arrived,
in the Book of Mormon you’re familiar with the Book of Mormon right,
show me the Book of Mormon the people the leaders of the church in the Book of Mormon. When Christ was born were.
Samuel Limonite Nephi and Lehi.
The interesting thing about that is in the immediate. Right before the birth of the savior they all disappeared,
and there is never any reference to them again and I think in Samuel the lamanites case it says he left and was never heard from again and in Nephi it says that you left and we didn’t come back and Lehigh just doesn’t mention,
you never mentioned him again and so.

Geoff Openshaw:
[9:44] Of course were referring to the Nephi and Lehi of the 4th Nephi book.

Devin Thorpe:
[9:48] 3rd Nephi health and healing really their story happens in heat.

Geoff Openshaw:
[9:51] I hear any of them that we’re not we’re not talking about old school Nephi we know that he dies.

Devin Thorpe:
[9:56] So the Nephi of 3rd Nephi is mostly the son of that Nephi which only makes it more confusing but the of those three sang the Limonite Nephi and Lehi they,
Faith promoting rumor poorly documented purely suspicious are the they are the three wise men.

Geoff Openshaw:
[10:17] Stop it.

Devin Thorpe:
[10:18] Yes they are the three wise men obviously,
the it was possible to transfer at unit across the ocean even in that. Of time because that’s how nice I got there the original Nephi and the original Lehigh so there was a way.
So who else would God have wanted to send there but Lehi and Nephi in.
And tell me the Limonite who had prophesied for years that the Savior would come.

Geoff Openshaw:
[10:55] That’s that’s very interesting so I’ve googled this is you’ve been talking about.

Devin Thorpe:
[10:58] Yes and I did not make this up so.

Geoff Openshaw:
[11:01] No I know how to make it up I’ve I’ve never even remotely thought about this in my life. One thing I wonder the three wise men of course we’re men of me and they were from the Eastern country Eastern I’ve always assumed meds,
I’ve always assumed Easter just met you know Babylon or Persia or whatever something like that but east could have meant very far east.

Devin Thorpe:
[11:26] Very very very far east yeah.

Geoff Openshaw:
[11:27] All the all the way over to what we all know is Ontario Canada today,
the Great Lakes theory is the only correct interpretation of the book Amor I’m doing backwards I mean they came from Ontario and then.

Devin Thorpe:
[11:43] Right right.

Geoff Openshaw:
[11:44] So that’s interesting so there are a number of online you can find many posts about this there’s the ldsfreedomforum I can only imagine what other.

Devin Thorpe:
[11:54] And I I love nothing more than to cite them that’s my favorite website.

Geoff Openshaw:
[11:59] There’s also the wise men of the website called the nephite project which I assume will this is a long this must be where you’ve heard some of this because.
There’s a long-form tear down here about how that might be the case over patheos were the wise men Nephites,
I’m loving it.

Devin Thorpe:
[12:21] It isn’t just make your whole Christmas better to think that that the wise men where Nephi Lehi in Sanyo.

Geoff Openshaw:
[12:29] I think so too but the question then is though don’t what about there and it was about who changed their names of the Balthazar melchior and stuff I mean dude it weird that come from.

Devin Thorpe:
[12:38] Well it’s probably that just the same mechanism used the Joseph Smith use when he wrote the Doctrine and Covenants.

Geoff Openshaw:
[12:46] Now not to be are on the whole white and delightsome thing but do you also believe this is where the tradition would come that one of the wise men with darker skin that would be Samuel.

Devin Thorpe:
[12:55] Yes that’s that’s one of the clues that some people use although that tradition I don’t know how well documented that tradition is it may just be nonsense.
Deep deep in my mind the strongest argument against it is that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[13:11] Is common sense.

Devin Thorpe:
[13:11] Is common sense,
bird from common sense in the obvious that would be really hard
those arguments the best argument in my mind is that,
the purpose for them to have gone would be to have borne witness to it and so if they had gone to Bear witness they would have,
then returned to Bear their witness and say we thought we went we saw him and we have returned to tell you it was awesome he’s the cutest little kid,
you ever laid eyes on but they didn’t do that until that in my mind is the strongest argument that this is just fun conjecture.

Geoff Openshaw:
[14:03] Well you got to convert in me I’m in.

Devin Thorpe:
[14:06] Good yes.

Geoff Openshaw:
[14:07] Help reach this from all all play some and it’s Christmas time.

Devin Thorpe:
[14:12] Kiss me kiss me a great thank you in a raise my hand every year and in Elders Quorum and Christmas time to share the story and get laughed out of the room.

Geoff Openshaw:
[14:22] Luisa livens up Elders Quorum let me know otherwise you know how old is corn can be.

Devin Thorpe:
[14:28] Yeah I do know how Elder Scrolls can be I do.

Geoff Openshaw:
[14:31] I am still sick but you know we’re about a year into this whole to our church thing and I’m not stopped being cynical about the elders Quorum curriculum unfortunately.

Devin Thorpe:
[14:41] Yeah but I do love the 2-hour block I don’t ever want to go back.

Geoff Openshaw:
[14:50] Yeah it is yeah you’re right it’s nice to be done quickly.

Devin Thorpe:
[14:54] I am last week let me just bring up something you talked about last week just quickly talk about the motherhood may be bad for your health and.
I thought the article that inspired this conversation,
which appears to be written by someone using a pseudonym which I I don’t love but it is well documented that the fact is that.
In many ways this was just a critique of the church with the fact is course having a baby as one of the riskiest things a human being can do,
so it’s not nonsense and the idea that we should talk about those risks as parents to our children makes really good sense,
you know that some of the critiques about women in the church I will leave to others but,
I do think there’s foundation in this discussion that encouraging women to have lots of lots of children is,
is a sacrifice we minimize and Overlook at a lot and we certainly aren’t asking men to make a similar sacrificed so it’s it is it is a topic of conversation shall we say.

Geoff Openshaw:
[16:13] I often feel like at least in my experience that the women who have had many many children,
also don’t seem to be ones that have like complained about,
pregnancy and things like their do you know types of pregnancy was fine that’s most of my experience I’m sure that’s not the rule but,
but for the most part that’s what I have seen cuz I meet other women hurts like being pregnant sucks I do it because I want to have another child and brother joy that brings my family,
pregnancy and delivery is the absolute pits and you’re never going to tell me that it said some wonderful experience just because of the result.

Devin Thorpe:
[16:50] But you know it’s,
it is I don’t think most people fully appreciate how risky it is to have a baby it is it truly is,
and even even women who survive are often left with lifeline,
health issues as a result even of a single pregnancy so I I think it’s a healthy discussion for us to have,
and I had this is you know 40 years ago I had a conversation with the state president’s wife and she said something that I thought was beautiful she had four kids yourself,
at a time when that was about average in the church and she said,
when God said multiply and replenish,
he didn’t mean you have to do that all by yourself and I always forget that she kind of meant it as a joke but I thought you know that is really.
General Conference worthy, try to me I think we really should recognize that we don’t need to put this burden on anyone women or even on women have a generation or time and when are we having babies,
when and if they want and are able to have.

Geoff Openshaw:
[18:15] I’m also I’m going to go out on a maybe a doctor no limb here I feel like there’s been a Divine hand in the the successful,
sustainment of the human race I mean obviously we know that we are divinely created like you said pregnancy and childbirth,
it’s so risky as pretty remarkable that the human species has continued obviously I was much more dangerous hundreds and thousands of years ago but,
we still survived up to this point and women have successfully brought children of the world and survived after 2 to raise them from from you know the time of Adam and Eve,
obviously it’s gotten Technologies made it better medicine is made it better there still parts of the world that I do not have access to those sorts of blessings and fortunately but,
I think that shows an interesting role that,
God is played in looking after his children because I would almost say it defies scientific logic and a sense that we with all the complications of somehow,
stuck it out and we haven’t just the women haven’t just been dying all the time from childbirth so ladies are has to go off to you,
thank you for all that you injure for us because I will never understand it cuz I just can’t.

Devin Thorpe:
[19:34] Here here here.

Geoff Openshaw:
[19:35] Here here well to completely turn now Devin if you done the right thing and subscribe to Disney Plus.

Devin Thorpe:
[19:42] Do you know the article you like to hear had an interesting fallacy in it is it suggested that a hundred percent of people in Utah want,
to have Disney plus I think what they meant is that,
the used that the state with highest interest as The Benchmark and then compared everyone else on that scale of 100.

Geoff Openshaw:
[20:09] Little Mix.

Devin Thorpe:
[20:10] Not that they didn’t mean to suggest that everyone in Utah wants it we just wanted the most and by far to your point.

Geoff Openshaw:
[20:20] But what happened here is that the Google Trends which is Google’s way of seeing what’s happening on the internet and where what are people searching for
show that in the run-up to the launch of Disney plus Disney’s new streaming service which was announced a year or so ago so this data is from November 2018 until the present until the last week or so and it shows that yes Utah,
what’s the number one state in the country,
by a significant margin expressing Interest online for Disney plus now this does not Shock Me.
Because having I only live in Utah for school but having been to Utah how many time I’m Utah is probably the only state I can think of,
in the western you ask for almost anywhere where there is active advertising for having Disneyland annual passes which is typically something you only see in Southern California,
but you times are so into the Disney nope there are plenty of families up there that have their annual passes that make the Hajj down to Anaheim at least once or twice a year,
and I do their thing and I think also just our natural predilection of Latter Day Saints two more family-friendly entertainment.

Devin Thorpe:
[21:31] Hell yeah yeah.

Geoff Openshaw:
[21:32] Stuff that allow that especially to like Disney’s so much built around escapism and.

Devin Thorpe:
[21:38] Yeah and ended yeah well that’s all family friendly but it’s all so much closer than you might think,
you know we get used to driving long distances out here in the west so the idea driving down to Anaheim even from Salt Lake just well yeah that’s what you how else would you get there.
It’s what you do so yeah it’s it it’s a day drive day down day back 3 days at Disneyland great weekend.

Geoff Openshaw:
[22:07] There’s the dream right there so I know I’ve had Disney plus since it started and it’s not that it’s anything for Mormons but I will say this I will say this,
and I’ve been a Netflix subscriber and all the others than an Amazon I’ve had most of those for a long time
now that I’ve tinkered around and looked at Disney plus there has been sort of a sense of not relief I’m there’s a Nostalgia factor for sure because they’ve opened the Vault of all kind of all I would like to know like Chip and Dale cartoon,
Donald Duck Noah’s Ark rack up to me by the way I also loved it all the older cartoons come with a disclaimer that says there they are broadcasting the original state and may contain outdated cultural depictions.
Because it’s a lot of big Lee racist so.

Devin Thorpe:
[22:51] Yes yes they are some of them not so vaguely.

Geoff Openshaw:
[22:55] In a world where like I’ll look at Netflix and Amazon in there so much garbage I have knowing
not just cuz it’s just a dumb movie or a show but the content is questionable and they push all kinds of things that you you can see us something like Disney place where I can pretty much login and realize there’s not going to be much there too,
send me which is kind of like a it’s a warm blanket.

Devin Thorpe:
[23:15] Yeah I think parents are going to love that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[23:18] I mean I started watching this show called The imagineering Story,
and it is produced in house it’s one of the original programs they have that’s it’s a multi-episode documentary about the imagineering department of Disney and that’s the group of individuals who designed the attractions for the theme parks
because it’s basically there after their artists and engineers at the same time so it talks it’s going chronologically with the history of the whole company of the stuff they’ve done and it’s just fascinating
I can sit there all day and watch that stuff I can’t say that for,
nailed it on Netflix or some other random program self Denis plus my hat goes off to you Virginia did not top the search results I’m sorry,
I didn’t do my.

Devin Thorpe:
[24:01] Well thanks for trying Geoff thanks for trying.

Geoff Openshaw:
[24:05] That was a hard-hitting news.

Devin Thorpe:
[24:06] There we go that that is that is fun news back to the discussion about motherhood though an interesting development and you flag this for us and our conversation but,
you flag this interesting development up at BYU Idaho,
where is this school has announced they will not accept Medicaid as an acceptable form of insurance in order to get to it.
Which is just patently absurd,
I mean it there is I’m sorry there is no none legitimate argument for this the the excuses that the school is made have all been debunked already.

Geoff Openshaw:
[24:49] And they barely made it either they pretty mother’s has made the decision to not backed it up by much of a.

Devin Thorpe:
[24:54] At one suggestion was at the hospital couldn’t handle it but a Salt Lake Tribune article said they called the hospital and they said that’s absurd of course we can handle the traffic,
no it’s it I don’t know of course I haven’t talked to anyone about this but it seems to me that this is a reflection of two things that,
some people in,
the Mormon culture until I presume they may be guilty of this at BYU Idaho in the administration there but they they are,
concerned about Medicaid being a form of Socialism,
which I find absurd defensive and I think there’s also a concern because the Medicaid provides coverage for,
contraceptives and,
as soon as this relates in my mind directly to the discussion we were having about women and timing their babies and recognizing that this is,
something they need to be healthy for a need to be ready for and prepared for so I do find this,
this whole thing to be an offencive thing and one of the interesting sidelines of this is the students that run the student paper were told they couldn’t write about.

Geoff Openshaw:
[26:16] Yeah that’s the big Scandal they tried to hush him up.

Devin Thorpe:
[26:20] Well I think they have her stuff.

Geoff Openshaw:
[26:21] They have.

Devin Thorpe:
[26:23] And and I think they were told they couldn’t even say send their stories anywhere else and I think that it was that that got,
the coverage so I even the New York Times is covered this story now.

Geoff Openshaw:
[26:35] Alaska,
that’s what’s going to Scuttle it I mean when I was at when I was in BYU Provo we famously had to protest while I was there with a lot of fun and that also made national news,

Devin Thorpe:
[26:50] Peace and harmony.

Geoff Openshaw:
[26:51] And one of that one of them was about Dick Cheney speaking at commencement so that was one thing but the other one,
was because there was a guy named Todd Hendricks I want to say was his name and he was an employee,
Tuesday is masters of yo-yo but it’s also an employee of like the Student Association and BYU Provo some kind of advisor I don’t know why you know it’s a job to have while you’re in grad school and,
he wrote a letter,
I think that an op-ed for the daily universe that spoke about ways to improve it which is funny cuz now we’re coming around to this and we see why student associations matter cuz BYU student Association a good thing you should all know any campus at BYU they’re not actual student,
governments like other universities might have they are,
associations of plant random activities and have no real power to Advocate on behalf of students or anything like that it’s it’s distinct from a lot of universities where you have a Student Association that has some fire.

Devin Thorpe:
[27:51] Interesting I was not aware of that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[27:54] That’s not the case in pypy you at all I think that’s also one of these issues and a lot of other universities if they’ve threatened to do things like this like no longer recognized medicated or cut other fun things actually stood up effectively like a union for the stew.

Devin Thorpe:
[28:08] Right right.

Geoff Openshaw:
[28:10] To Lobby on their behalf you can’t do that at BYU.

Devin Thorpe:
[28:12] I remember when I was running the student paper at Cornell’s Business School,
back just after Joseph Smith left New York and it was we wrote some articles that the administration and faculty just hate it,
he just hated and I had intended it to be that controversial we just all we did is we published the student feedback,
they had always been public but not accessible and we just put it right in the newspaper and in the faculty and administration flipped out that you know what they never asked me not to do it again,
they didn’t know they were mad,
but they did not think it got me a scholarship but they didn’t they didn’t ever say to me Devin you shouldn’t have done that I mean they they let you know in a way that suggested that I needed to change we did we kept doing it.

Geoff Openshaw:
[29:07] I don’t want to out my mom here but my mom is a journalism major at BYU and I forget she’s told me a story in the past but I forget all the details but she did get in trouble for some investigative journalism she undertook when she was there like with the administration like the dean brought her in,
had words so censorship is not a new thing at BYU it’s right that the store I got into a few minutes ago and the administration was not pleased with it even though it’s mostly just about how to improve BYU essay
until they fired him,
but what they did is they said they sort of said it’s actually kind of nice and parallels to all of the impeachment stuff going on right now would you,
and they’re like maybe if you keep this quiet,
and don’t go to the Press about us firing you in all this stuff will just keep you on the health insurance.
It was kind of a dirty deal like that he went public he went public with it and it resulted in a massive protest about how the administration was corrupt.

Devin Thorpe:
[30:14] Wow wow wow.

Geoff Openshaw:
[30:16] I think I gave that the greatest let’s see how it was that 2006 BYU employees terminated over it he was fired for writing a letter to a letter to the editor criticizing by USA student elections,
and this actually resulted,
in a protest on campus it was fabulous it was amazing you would have loved to Devon people have duct tape over their mouths when they wrote by USSR.
People are selling by USSR shirts it was pretty fun,
I’ve got I’ve got pictures lying around somewhere she’s going to anyway that’s for the Medicaid thing for some background BYU has a requirement you have some kind of health insurance,
22 tender this is, in a lot of universities,
they have previously accepted to BYU Idaho Medicaid which is the United States government funded health program for people below the poverty line.

Devin Thorpe:
[31:07] Which many students are.

Geoff Openshaw:
[31:09] Which many students are yes that this isn’t just you know this isn’t like for immigrants taking your goods and services or anything it’s just like students
you can buy one through the university would have different coverage but like some of the articles is said talking to a couples that are married and stuff that are scraping by on Medicaid,
they don’t have even the $500 per year to pay the BYU to have their coverage,
there’s like serious issues in this is only at BYU-Idaho BYU Provo sent out a tweet,
stressing that that Medicaid band does not exist in Provo Provo still recognizes it I just have to wonder if this is a test balloon.

Devin Thorpe:
[31:52] Yeah I suspected that those universities work more independently than that I hope that’s the case I.

Geoff Openshaw:
[31:59] What did I do I mean they have different letter codes they they said the one University but BYU-Idaho is famously kind of fascist.

Devin Thorpe:
[32:06] It’s Amore too much more conservative place than BYU in Provo or BYU Hawaii as far as I can tell.

Geoff Openshaw:
[32:14] Byu-hawaii of course is where people who aren’t serious about their morals attached.
Devin the girls are wearing bikinis bikinis.

Devin Thorpe:
[32:23] Bikinis.

Geoff Openshaw:
[32:25] They want they walk around with bikinis that say I am becoming pornography that is walk around with.

Devin Thorpe:
[32:30] I love it you’re so funny.

Geoff Openshaw:
[32:34] I love having you so good for my ego.
Quick mention I’ll give you right here this going to be a new missions in the church opening up in July of 2020 which will bring the worldwide total back above 400 up to 470,
we crossed well over 400 during these so-called surge a number of years ago but then as you might expect with you were missionaries we Consolidated so,
8 New Missions opening will be Brazil Recife but I imagine it’s actually pronounced has CFA right Devon Sawa.

Devin Thorpe:
[33:06] Yeah something like that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[33:08] South Cameroon Yaounde so I’m assuming that means Cameron did not have its own mission before Canon day at the Capitol unless Cameroon had one of their mission,
and I’m in the main Port City was named I forget Ecuador Guayaquil East Ethiopia Addis Ababa Ethiopia Mission before this.

Devin Thorpe:
[33:26] That’s exciting.

Geoff Openshaw:
[33:27] Mozambique bereberes up in the northern part of the country Tanzania Dar es Salaam is exciting I think that’s part of the Kenya Mission before that Austin Texas surprisingly is not before I think it’s been part of San Antonio north or something like that,
Dallas and Texas Dallas East so the spring I feel like I have to look at,
cuttwood enough time for I want to look at some of the maps at Kimora Kimora. Calm and see which michia,
we exist for these countries but that’s good news to work is going forward and shocker of shockers a lot of it’s happening in Africa surprising no.
None of them were West West Africa kind of been the real hotbed of activity but New Missions.

Devin Thorpe:
[34:09] Yeah I haven’t been to Addis Ababa it said I’m excited about that what a great country great people glad glad so glad to see the church prospering that’s great,
you know back on this theme of women.

Geoff Openshaw:
[34:27] Devin Let It Go man come on.

Devin Thorpe:
[34:29] I want to talk about polygamy Peggy Fletcher stack wrote that the note was the main cover story in the Tribune the front page story in the Tribune on Sunday.
What’s about the modern practice of polygamy in the church is this comes up in part because of the tragedy in Mexico and and all the discussion around Mormons and and,
polygamy their butt,
it’s that help to kind of give this urgency but one of the things that’s happening in the church more and more is that women are pointing out,
their frustration with dark rings around polygamy weight,
at when we finished the practice of polygamy we sort of didn’t go all the way we banished it in mortality only,
but the practice of Eternal polygamy you have very much continues president Oaks president Nelson and both been sealed to two women,
and what’s not talk about very often at the church but that in fact happens is that some men,
are simultaneously sealed to two living women or more right because men don’t have to have their ceilings canceled to be married to another woman,
so some.

Geoff Openshaw:
[35:57] CO2 to be sealed it to women but only currently civilly married to one of them.

Devin Thorpe:
[36:01] Right right so increasingly and it certainly not a universal view and and Peggy makes this very clear in her article I thought it was quite well-balanced given,
as the context for the discussion but she highlighted equally,
they complained of women who felt that the church is not hearing them when they say they live in Terror of an immortality where their husband takes on a second,
and they are left in eternity being one of,
one in a two or more spouses to a husband and they are not cool with that some other women say,
there is a beautiful,
add comment from one faithful Latter-Day Saint who said and you know in the eternities love is abundant and we will not feel,
the constraint or jealousy that we might feel now and it will be perfectly delightful,
and but there are a lot of women who are buying it so I said it was at least an interesting piece worthy of calling attention to for those who are interested in such things.

Geoff Openshaw:
[37:14] Does she make mentioned in the article I see this is sort of the the other side of Elder Oaks talk during conference which was met with some derision because he kind of chuckled when a woman who was it was more woman who was concerned like one of my husband died,
and I can’t get sealed to another made all young widows and and such.

Devin Thorpe:
[37:33] Yeah yeah so.

Geoff Openshaw:
[37:34] But there but they have other concerns about the other side of it we’re okay my husband passed away we were married for like 2 years and I can’t get sealed to my husband who is now going to be with me for 45 years and have kids and all that stuff,
like what what Solace do we have in present folks kind of laughed about it it was sort of strange for that but.

Devin Thorpe:
[37:55] Apparently I think his his point was we will sort all of these things out in the eternities and God will make it right.

Geoff Openshaw:
[38:06] And hopefully it’s the same thing for those who are frustrated with knowing they will be in a polyandrous relationship.

Devin Thorpe:
[38:13] Yeah I guess what I would say about that is if we have such faith in God making things right in the eternities I think there can be more room for making them comfortable,
the present right you know that the brother and have suggested that there are a lot of things we don’t know everything about,
and we we take the more Orthodox conservative you and then insist that,
God Will Make It Alright in the end and I think there is an argument to be made that it’s consistent with the brother and dad,
if we can trust in the Lord to set things right maybe we could take a more liberal view of those practices in the mortality and trust God to sort them out.

Geoff Openshaw:
[39:00] Oh I think what you meant to say there was a conservative View.

Devin Thorpe:
[39:04] In any case,
I think I think we all have to rely on God sorting things out I just hope maybe we can be more kind and loving in the in our application of policy in the things where we have limited knowledge and understanding.

Geoff Openshaw:
[39:24] Did I think the internet age has made us less patient with that you know I’m a grown up I heard that all the time and doesn’t pertain to your Eternal salvation don’t stress out about it right just let the Lord put that stuff in the Lord’s hands and,
you do you keep the Commandments be a good person and be faithful but I do wonder if just our greater access to information to support group discussion groups all those sorts of things that are at our fingertips in the information age have inevitably made us,
just a little less patient with not having those answers.

Devin Thorpe:
[39:54] You’re probably right at the end of the thing about women and Pinot This Modern practice of polygamy that really persists in this sort of Eternal sense affects virtually every woman in the church,
because she every woman in the church could fear a,
another wife entering into the relationship picture somehow.

Geoff Openshaw:
[40:20] Crab.
I would fear it I’m good with one I’ve no desire to happen more my wife is already a handful I’m alright alright brother.

Devin Thorpe:
[40:30] Be careful.

Geoff Openshaw:
[40:33] How do I get it I can have two of that she said most of the show anymore so I can say whatever I want.

Devin Thorpe:
[40:39] Yeah I can relate to that.

Geoff Openshaw:
[40:43] Highway of a interesting mention so you might be called during General Conference in October president Nelson did a little mic drop at the very very end it was like a Steve Jobs one more thing Moment by the by,
20/20 is the 200th anniversary of the first Vision we’re going to do some stuff to come out right that and General Conference will be unlike any general conference you’ve ever experienced previously,
and we all said what does this mean boy we’ve gotten a little bit of a peek behind that it’s not quite as dramatic as you might expect but,
what president Nelson is said via a letter from the first presidency is that on Saturday evening,
instead of having the young the women’s meeting or the priesthood session there will be a combined meeting for anyone 11 or older.

[41:36] All of us for ages 11 and up which basically mean it’s for everybody because I mean,
like what our parents going to do if it’s both parents and their kids that are that age,
he was going to try to like desperately get your other kids you know I’m going to attend this in person that’s all I’m sick and if they do you’re going to bring it all together,
young little Rugrats so it’s interesting they say this this is the letter makes a point to say that,
you know we’re going to commemorate the very foundations of the restored gospel so I don’t know if this session is going to have to focus on the restoration of the Gospel it’s evident that there’s going to be,
a lot of that going on in 2020 but I’m curious what’s going to be behind this I don’t think this is a permanent change of seems kind of liked at the special edition just for April I think they don’t they don’t say that,
explicitly but it’s implied.

Devin Thorpe:
[42:26] But I kind of hope that it is permit.

Geoff Openshaw:
[42:28] You got that it’s a permanent thing Sophia they’ll be funny because then that would mean this much ballyhooed change to have the women’s meeting once a year and the priest of me once a year only went like one year.

Devin Thorpe:
[42:39] Yeah what are there a lot of things that that’s.

Geoff Openshaw:
[42:44] And then that’s it no time to even get a rhythm on the.

Devin Thorpe:
[42:48] Better ways to eat yeah yeah yeah I’m probably wrong on that but I think especially the way the women session was handled last time it was treated almost as a,
family session in some respects.

Geoff Openshaw:
[43:06] In a way that was wonderful same time if this is a permanent change this will be special because that will be in October 2019 would be the only time and like what,
a hundred years that the men have not attended an evening session.

Devin Thorpe:
[43:24] Yeah that’s that is an interesting observation.

Geoff Openshaw:
[43:27] And that would be like the one hour later then,
all of history so I don’t know what’s going to happen this week we talked a lot on our conference recap podcast go give it a listen if you want to fight you know back from,
early October about what else we think might happen in 2020 it could be who knows I’m I’m pulling for a broadcast live from the sacred grove or something.

Devin Thorpe:
[43:48] Yeah and I would eat.

Geoff Openshaw:
[43:50] They’ve done that before they’ve had conference in the sacred grove so that would not be unlike any other.

Devin Thorpe:
[43:55] Right right.

Geoff Openshaw:
[43:56] I don’t know what we can do to make this unique not sure.

Devin Thorpe:
[43:58] Yeah well I think I mentioned in our last discussion I’ve kind of hoping for pageantry,
and events something more social events around General Conference more celebration,
had to give it more of a festival at it at atmosphere in town not necessarily in the sessions but in town so that people want to come be a part of the celebration of conference but at least this.

Geoff Openshaw:
[44:26] That makes sense when you get like a unicyclist going around City Creek and more than a fire blower and all that kind of stuff.

Devin Thorpe:
[44:32] Melissa. There are a number of stories maybe we can just raced through these quick.

Geoff Openshaw:
[44:39] Summer all summer just to mention that’s all week.

Devin Thorpe:
[44:41] So great article in the Deseret news this week about the church having an impact a huge impact on Healthcare in Cambodia,
in Campo di the church has only 15,000 members I’ve been there a couple of times in the church does have an outside influence it appears cuz I 15,000 members but a lot of churches around turn on fan.

Geoff Openshaw:
[45:03] Two steaks in like six districts.

Devin Thorpe:
[45:06] Yeah it’s it’s it’s actually quite mormoni and but big impact on Healthcare that’s exciting to see.

Geoff Openshaw:
[45:13] So what are they doing though to have an impact on Healthcare.

Devin Thorpe:
[45:15] At mostly it is upgrading the physical facilities at the hospitals so the church is engaged there and in that process in Oklahoma.

Geoff Openshaw:
[45:25] Did you see Devin real quick I forgot to do see the air Temple design.

Devin Thorpe:
[45:29] Know which Temple design is this.

Geoff Openshaw:
[45:32] The one for Cambodia.

Devin Thorpe:
[45:33] Alfred Cambodia Cambodia Cambodia ends are just in my experience the sweetest people in the world they’re just absolutely the kindest most loving people I’ve ever met,
okay I’m scrolling down there is so it’s beautiful and so culturally appropriate that’s picked a.

Geoff Openshaw:
[45:50] Very cool. So when President Nelson was there on his southeast Asia tour in a meeting with the Cambodian safety revealed the design.

Devin Thorpe:
[45:58] Oh that’s fact I bet they loved it I bet they loved.

Geoff Openshaw:
[46:00] Yeah and it is culturally relevant drainage.

Devin Thorpe:
[46:02] Yeah that’s that’s nice to pay some,
cultural at treated that way there’s also a group of Mormons called out in the in an Oklahoma paper for their work on preserving the a cemetery there they had it Cemetery been kind of abandoned in there,
came and cleaned it all up and recorded,
all of the names on all the headstones in this little Cemetery which is you know Bible Church in our family history kind of information so that was great to see,
this week the church announced at that there now 10 locations that will be coming online for their light the world giving machines,
one of my one of my favorite things the church does is the giving machines I think that’s.

Geoff Openshaw:
[46:48] The other men are amazing.

Devin Thorpe:
[46:49] The church donated 42,000 lb of food to the Texas Food Bank,
that was also a really cool thing that I thought the church was involved in and sort of felt that church service,
and then you highlighted another one that the church has donated what was it 120 beds to a hospital in Papua New Guinea so,
you know sometimes these things don’t hit our radar all the good things that the church is doing around the world and I love it when we can highlight the good things they’re doing cuz they do a lot of cool stuff.

Geoff Openshaw:
[47:26] We do a lot of cool stuff the Papua New Guinea one is interesting because we were have a temple there in Port Moresby and,
we we thought about that one for years but the issue is Papua New Guinea is pretty that’s pretty poor infrastructure
in general and even with respect to the Regent even though it’s great to the churches involved in trying to help me eat more of the temporal needs of the people of the country because if they cannot eat,
if they cannot have helped they cannot worship as well as they might want to so I’m glad to see that we’re not just going to storm in and build a nice cool Temple and then,
what that be that and we’re trying to improve Society in all aspects.

Devin Thorpe:
[48:06] Well I ate you know that certainly consistent with the savior’s model you think about all the time and energy he put into caring for the poor and encouraging people to do that,
you know that that is what Christianity is and should be all about so.

Geoff Openshaw:
[48:24] You are a genius.
Hey so if you are in the Salt Lake Area anytime soon as a lot of things happening of course near Temple Square one of which,
a real quick Temple Square itself the Christmas lights will be on this coming Black Friday so when you’re done doing all your shopping at City Creek,
head over and those lights are going to be blazing at dusk,
I for some reason Gephardt daily says it’s going to happen on November 9th which seems like I have a random day to do that that’s what the typos that they’ve got to fix but it also mentioned some of the other non-ticketed events that you can attend while you’re.

Devin Thorpe:
[49:06] Yeah there’s a lot going on.

Geoff Openshaw:
[49:09] One of my favorite things when I was at BYU,
love driving up to the lights one of those beautiful things you can see all year also nearby Temple Square is the Church History Museum
and the church history museum is put up an exhibit it’s going to run through January 20-21 about the history of women’s suffrage in Utah Utah was one of the first territories in the United States to offer women the right
to vote of the first who did some research the first was Wyoming by like a matter of months but Utah we believe his number two,
all the way back in the Proclamation happen in 1870 Utah wasn’t even a state yet at the time but it was the first territory or state to do that of course women
nationally the United States not get the right to vote until 1919 hundred years ago this year via an amendment to the Constitution,
but it’s all good was going to talk all about women’s suffrage and the state and of course how it relates to.
Women in the church and talking about Susan B Anthony,
if you are in Salt Lake and can go to that museum the church history museum in general is kind of like an unsung Jam.
A lot of cool stuff there in people people visit Temple Square and they do all the usual stuff and they’re going to watch a movie in the Legacy Theater and you do all the things with a lot of people don’t think to go over to the church history library and there is a lot of good stuff.

Devin Thorpe:
[50:37] Yeah it is it is fantastic and I’m glad they’re doing that cuz that will offset some of the impact of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake so that’s that’s good I think it’s good.
And is I don’t think they’re real house Housewives of Salt Lake will bring anything good to Utah.

Geoff Openshaw:
[50:57] What’s I am curious for your perspective Alan I talked about this last week but you are a Salt Lake Dennison you know.

Devin Thorpe:
[51:06] I can’t imagine that I won’t watch every episode but I hope I hate it I will feel really guilty if I don’t hate it does that make any sense at all.

Geoff Openshaw:
[51:18] Yes yes but it’s like.

Devin Thorpe:
[51:22] Yeah I I I just can’t think that anything good will come of it but I will I will not be able to not watch.

Geoff Openshaw:
[51:30] Now do you think I don’t know having not really watch the course the original Housewives iteration happened to my native Orange County California I think it was all film down like Coto De Caza,
dude I don’t know if they actually they say you know the real housewives of Salt Lake,
but it’s usually a bunch of women who already know each other right so is localized or they actually going to grab women from Draper and Bountiful.

Devin Thorpe:
[51:51] Yeah I don’t know cuz I’ve never watched any of the other Real Housewives shows ever.

Geoff Openshaw:
[51:57] It’s like it’s like we’re not their Target demographic.

Devin Thorpe:
[52:00] Yeah it’s like we’re not but suddenly when it comes to Salt Lake I’m afraid I’m going to have to watch.

Geoff Openshaw:
[52:06] Or we’re going to want to see it just even see like random places that you may know.

Devin Thorpe:
[52:10] Right yeah yeah oh my gosh.

Geoff Openshaw:
[52:12] I’m guessing that fancy new development over there and holiday at the intersection is going to be featured you’re the one talking about the taco joint.

Devin Thorpe:
[52:22] Exactly well why didn’t you mention Temple Square and I I didn’t want to get us to distracted with this whole Real Housewives of Salt Lake but as I was watching the,
the new video the new Nativity video that you highlighted at the top of the show,
and I was prompted by YouTube to watch one of my favorite all-time Church videos at again and it really is just
absolutely magnificent oh my gosh but it’s the the world’s largest Hallelujah Chorus from 2016 of the,
this end at so just you know YouTube that sucker and,
boy see if that doesn’t just make your day and then going to put it on your calendar to share that on Friday as you’re heading over to Temple Square and get people and get them in the spirit for Christmas so anyway,
that’s my my concluding thought for the show.

Geoff Openshaw:
[53:23] Well I’m okay concluding right there.
Everyone you can please of course visit us at this week in Mormons. Com to encourage you to visit assuming the site is live we’ve had a number of posting issues over the past week but right now we’re looking okay so.

Devin Thorpe:
[53:42] I hate hosting issues.

Geoff Openshaw:
[53:44] I was thinking she was at the absolute,
likewise if you haven’t yet subscribe to the show we encourage you to do so however you get your podcast and leave us a review on iTunes in particular if you can that would be awesome,
if you need any help with figuring those things out you can always send us an email to contact at this week in Mormons. Com you can send me one directly Geoff at this week in Mormons. Calm and I will get back to you I always do I do not ignore the emails at all,
I’m Leslie patreon.com this week and Mormons are number of you,
up to your contributions last week after our show and I cannot thank you enough for that’s very kind of you very thoughtful very generous patreon just let you pledge a certain,
number of dollars per month that you want to spend to support artists and what have you so if you want to support twin you can use that,
it’s pretty straightforward patreon patreon. Com this week in Mormons and someone come into this past week about having a venmo maybe I’ll look into one of those if that’s something that’s if there’s any interest there a lot of snow,
Devin Thorpe is from his soon-to-be the erstwhile host of Devin Thorpe you are mark on the world.

Devin Thorpe:
[54:56] That is correct.

Geoff Openshaw:
[54:57] Yeah but for the time being you can still find that and then he’s being vague about what he’s moving on to do but I trust it’s going to be amazing.

Devin Thorpe:
[55:03] Yes Adult Video Universe is being vague to it’s not just me.

Geoff Openshaw:
[55:11] So you’re like I know I need to stop this but I don’t know what else I need to do when it’s done.

Devin Thorpe:
[55:15] Yes exactly right.

Geoff Openshaw:
[55:17] Well well we wish you that you may have Clarity and find that Clarity in the Salt Lake Temple the closes like this week right isn’t it shut down like right now.

Devin Thorpe:
[55:27] Yes yes it is.

Geoff Openshaw:
[55:28] Is a closed effectively this week now this one starts.

Devin Thorpe:
[55:31] No I think it’s goes through the end of the year I may be remembering wrong I didn’t look it up but I think the st. George temple just closed and the Salt Lake Temple closes at the end of the year.

Geoff Openshaw:
[55:45] You’re right yes it closes on December 29th so we got some more time fabulous enough always a pleasure to have you.

Devin Thorpe:
[55:53] Thanks for having me it’s a joy to be with you.

Geoff Openshaw:
[55:56] And a Happy Thanksgiving to you and Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners safe travels if you’re doing so we hope you have a wonderful and heartfelt enjoyable time with family and loved ones instead of the cliche have fighting and what have you and,
we will join you again next week with a very fun interview and that is what I will say about that for now but I hope you’ll tune in next Tuesday that’ll drop so for Devin, I’m Geoff, and this has been This Week in Mormons.
Be well. Be holy. And be happy.

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