As seems to be the case whenever Kurt is in the hot seat, it’s a strange grab bag of news this week without a single, dominating headline (unless you want to talk about Iran, which we don’t). So let’s dive in!

So there’s this interesting Tree of Life augmented reality app that the Church just released. For the uninitiated, augmented reality is something like Pokemon Go, where your phone shows you what is around you – as it normally would when taking a photo or video – but other material pops up in the process and you can interact with it. In this case, it’s the opportunity to live through the Tree of Life story from the book of 1 Nephi. It’s interesting. We had some trouble getting it to play nice on Android, but we’d love to hear what you think of it if you manage to use it.

Also new from the Church is a new podcast focused exclusively on the First Vision, Joseph Smith’s experience seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ. It’s pretty great and contains interviews with scholars and historians. Certainly the best episode is the one about how the Sacred Grove must have smelled at the time. We’re guessing like dirt and leaves.

Our own Jeff Borders wants to talk about how much Latter-day Saints love acronyms. We’re not a so-called “corporate church,” you say? Tell that to the purveyors of layers upon layers of internal jargon!

Random stuff: learn about the behind-the-scenes process of the new youth video, President Nelson encourages us to think seriously about the Restoration, Kurt wants to talk about the schedule changes at church that come with the new year for some reason, and a submarine commander somehow finds a way to get his church on even in the darkest abyss.

Should Mormons use Medicaid? The idea here is that we preach self-reliance but also have a history of using government programs. A Washington Post article outlines the alleged double standard, while a Times and Seasons piece provides a brilliant takedown of the WaPo story.

Lastly, Church growth is slowing in Utah and actually declining in Salt Lake County – the entire county, not just Salt Lake proper. There’s some interesting data here, and it’s worth exploring why the nucleus of the Church is not growing as one might hope. It’s not only about urbanization and folks moving in from out of state.

Check out that Patreon link! We’d really appreciate just $1 a month! That’s it! Don’t buy that candy bar (unless it’s a Whatchamacallit). Aside from serving up the poorly targeted ads you’re likely seeing on this page, Patreon is our main source of revenue. TWiM takes a financial loss every month just to keep things going. All we want is to break even. (You can also donate straight to Geoff on Venmo: @Geoff-Openshaw.)

Transcript

Geoff:
[0:00] All right everybody stop whatever you’re doing right now and listen to what I have to say it’s this weekend Mormon that’s right.

[0:16] Happy New Year swim in 2020 here we are everybody welcome to the show we hope you had a delightful New Year celebration wherever that took you that it was chased and sober.

Kurt:
[0:27] You stay up till midnight Jeff.

Geoff:
[0:28] And.

Kurt:
[0:31] You don’t do that at your event or the old man years.

Geoff:
[0:34] I have I have young children I say I say cool betta 10:30 sounds great because a 5 year olds going to come running into my room at 6:30,
wanted to show me something so there’s is no points not worth it,
it’s not worth it I just ate but I usually I might I think in previous years even I’ve stayed up my wife went to bed but I’m like.

Kurt:
[0:57] Is that the New York ball drop for you is like live I mean it’s the real deal or we already always know that this happened 2 hours ago.

Geoff:
[1:06] There’s no tape play here years ago medical 10 years ago was it 09 2010 New Years it might have been that one actually,
myself and a number of cohorts went to a mid singles dance we know it was supposed to be at just a singles dance allegedly sponsored by the mid-single so all we’re welcome we were the only young single adults who showed up,
the rest of it was all these 40 and 50 year old divorcees,
which as a side note the greatest deterrent to if you’re like a bishop and you’re counseling a couple that’s having some problems just say go to a mid singles dance.

Kurt:
[1:43] And you can work out any problem.

Geoff:
[1:46] You will see what is out there and you will very quickly have a reality check and work through it assuming your problems are the fixable type obviously there are situations where.

Kurt:
[1:55] Yes I mean.

Geoff:
[1:56] Where the marriage should dissolve but yeah that was the whole dance with a crack up cuz it was I was dance with always black,
45 year old women who are like hell young meet and I’m like What’s Up.

Kurt:
[2:10] Was this in the DC area.

Geoff:
[2:13] This notice is in California so because of this,
because of the 3 hour delay primarily with New York every hour starting at like 9 and maybe even earlier than I have shown Stephen like that UK they would show the ball drop and count it down and everyone counted down this was literally still the old people would not have to stay up,
until actual midnight Pacific time,
to do it so they can count down at like 10 p.m. and be like yeah I countdown New Year and I have achieved this and then I can go home and feel great about themselves and when that wasn’t happening and they were just playing the movie Casablanca on a,
projector in the background.

Kurt:
[2:46] It’s the only safe the only safe movie to show Anna in a church culture law.

Geoff:
[2:52] I think there are safer films I’m not going to lie.

Kurt:
[2:55] Yeah.

Geoff:
[2:57] There’s probably smoking in Casablanca I don’t up so.

Kurt:
[2:58] I was true.

Geoff:
[3:01] Not even appropriate so that was fun somebody was this year.

Kurt:
[3:03] You’ve come a long way as a married man of two children.

Geoff:
[3:08] Not as exciting but it was okay it was okay I have no complaints hung out with the kids party hard Good Times soft Frozen.

Kurt:
[3:16] That like the sequel Frozen or.

Geoff:
[3:19] The sequel Frozen took the we all we all want on a family trip to the movies,
my two year old is too young to go to the movies but all the rest of us wanted to go so we just went for it he was pretty good he was kind of Blown Away by the whole situation,
is a two-year-old so he made it like an hour through the movie in the last half-hour he was like riding on the floor and jumping on his seat and say hi to people behind him and just you know the usual.

Kurt:
[3:41] That’s so you only son our the movie then or.

Geoff:
[3:46] Know that we saw the whole thing you just we just we just kind of let him hang in there and we watch the whole movie did you see Frozen to do there.

Kurt:
[3:51] I was out of town or something when my family went so I have not yet seen it I’m a fan of Disney movies and I look forward to watching it on my own.

Geoff:
[4:01] A controversial stands for a Latter-Day Saint continue.

Kurt:
[4:03] Well that’s what that’s what we do here Jeff at this week in Mormons so.

Geoff:
[4:09] I mean we invented Disney plus before it was a thing just to our DVD collections and Netflix queues.

Kurt:
[4:14] That’s right that’s right so a what was your route General review of Frozen 2 would you.

Geoff:
[4:18] Oh wow Frozen 2 was in some ways it was better than the first,
but I’ll start the plot was super convoluted and I was just like okay why the motivations were not as clear the first Frozen Elsa don’t think has the strongest plot Tangled is a better film,
but,
but it was good I actually like there was a little heavier an adult with you no like their past and some concepts of identity and you know their grandpa I’m spoiler.

Kurt:
[4:49] What were past the time yeah.

Geoff:
[4:50] Before their grandpa was a schmoe I guess.

Kurt:
[4:54] What about have you talked about your Star Wars Review the the rise of Skywalker.

Geoff:
[5:01] No I forgot did did did Al and I fail to talk Star Wars last week I don’t have came up with surprising.

Kurt:
[5:09] It came up I listen to that was Jeff which again I’m always just amazed at at the chemistry you and I’ll had it’s a shame that he’s had to step away from the mic let’s be honest.

Geoff:
[5:20] And it’s a shame that you and I don’t have that level of.

Kurt:
[5:21] I know I mean I try I try I faked it every time you know but I hate you you keep having me back so.

Geoff:
[5:29] My favorite thing I have incurred on is that he he tries to embrace his sarcastic.

Kurt:
[5:34] Yeah I do and I forget that I’m just like the usually is it tries to be cool you know.

Geoff:
[5:41] You don’t have to be who pretend to be sarcastic or you just be you man.

Kurt:
[5:43] I’m a pretty.

Geoff:
[5:44] Put on your leading LDS persona.

Kurt:
[5:47] That’s right now a I’m a pretty sarcastic guy okay sometimes I worry that side of me comes through my leading Saints Persona a little bit too much but but I haven’t got any hate mail so at least in that regard.

Geoff:
[5:59] I try to measure that with my my children I have dry humor and I’m sarcastic and I try to get out of yourself with kids but I remember kids have no sense of sarcasm so if I’m just be like yeah I did a pretty good job there huh,
don’t feel like that thanks Dad thank you.

Kurt:
[6:14] And that’s just part of your role as a father to it to establish the sarcasm in their mind.

Geoff:
[6:19] No I see I just I think I want to try to be more sincere I think it’s.

Kurt:
[6:22] There’s no way you can do it Jeff you can’t last 20 years doing that.

Geoff:
[6:27] Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do John Locke lost thank you.

Kurt:
[6:30] Man that doesn’t Disney plus right.

Geoff:
[6:35] I don’t know it’s probably on Hulu.

Kurt:
[6:37] Hulu that was a series.

Geoff:
[6:39] But this is neither me nor you unless you want to talk about Star Wars if you have opinions.

Kurt:
[6:43] I enjoyed the movie that was fantastic I I don’t you know some of these super fans that are upset about to a plot hole here and there I just don’t whatever.

Geoff:
[6:56] Go by puddle here and there I mean it was kind of Swiss cheese of a movie but still it was into it it was fine.

Kurt:
[6:58] That they always are right I mean if they work themselves into a into a knot with the so many movies and characters and timelines you know this found app.

Geoff:
[7:09] I’m actually more I’m jonesing to see Knives Out.

Kurt:
[7:13] I’ve heard that’s good too.

Geoff:
[7:14] I want to I want to see that how was your New Year’s.

Kurt:
[7:18] My new years was great we had to all my in-laws over my home every last one of them seven of them like six siblings plus my wife and then the parents and,
little children and we went out on the porch and try to wake the Neighbors at midnight and yeah did I pay for the next day yes I did Jeff yes I did.

Geoff:
[7:39] How soon were you hungover from all that much.

Kurt:
[7:40] Yeah I need like you said I got a 4 year olds in my my home that yeah he’s a pain on me and my bed early hours of the morning and you know you just roll with it and and the week we caught at Park on our sleep so we’re good so.

Geoff:
[7:56] I had one of them come in the other day don’t worry it’s a work day and I will get up at 6 for work but he runs in my room at 5 a.m. to Dad Dad Dad there’s a raccoon outside.

Kurt:
[8:09] Is important business.

Geoff:
[8:11] And I was just like,
no I just said dude just go back to sleep like why why are you bothering me right now this is not something that you need to do I fell back to sleep for a bit but he just stayed awake he was just staring out his window for hours in the Darkness,
so funny they just do I get so zeroed in on stuff.

Kurt:
[8:28] Etcetera.

Geoff:
[8:30] We’re all tired so goes the dynamite.

Kurt:
[8:32] So is speaking speaking of the New Year Jeff I want to ask you if it has a representative representative of the the twin audience,
as far as 20/20 goes what what should we expect on the podcast feed in 2020 I mean what what are your what are your Ambitions your plans let’s hear it.

Geoff:
[8:53] Some simple Biosilk a couple things to bear in mind one we should hit our 500th show in 2020,
ticket believe that which is actually pretty damn I can’t believe this is episode what 457 I mean how we met 457.

Kurt:
[9:08] View podcast cannot even imagine a during that phrase so.

Geoff:
[9:14] Oh no it’s it’s really just just naked perseverance and not caring about if I made rational choices I would have stopped doing this podcast years ago but here I am,
never mind that we’re both in a podcast group on faith LDS podcast up on Facebook and someone said like in Urdu someone had a question whether they should Sunset their show that was like I’m the worst person to ask,
this cuz I just,
I throw all objectivity out the window and I’m like purely emotion is a twin will never die and I will keep using it forever I’ll never stop even if I take even if I pay money for it I don’t care.

Kurt:
[9:45] There’s been moments Jeff where it’s been shaky for you right.

Geoff:
[9:51] There was the great Lowell of 2018 that was a that was a tough spot for us.

Kurt:
[9:55] The owl Jeff breakup was tragic.

Geoff:
[9:59] Ask me to break about the checks in.

Kurt:
[10:01] I know but it sounds.

Geoff:
[10:02] I actually haven’t mind really really saying that,
I’m very thankful to you Kurt I’m thankful all of the other guest house and I’ve actually I will say it first I was trying to think of ways to rejigger the show to keep it going I kind of my lamented sort of you know the end of what was the norm,
but as we’ve been doing this for the past what then probably a year-and-a-half fish that we’ve kind of all been doing this new structure
I’ve come to appreciate it quite a bit I’ve actually I’m actually almost more of a fan of how we do things now cuz I really like sitting with all you different host and getting you
getting the new discussion but through your lens current through Josie’s lens is the sister show Devin you might be Jared,
it’s actually kind of a cup more fun for me scheduling a little bit more complicated sure but otherwise it’s going to take more out of it cuz I get good discussion two different people.

Kurt:
[10:50] And I know you’ve you tinkered with that some interviews and had some great interviews is that something that you want to do more of is it just matter of a time commitment thing or.

Geoff:
[11:02] No interviews are great I am happy to do interviews if it by the way but if you have individuals you suggest we.

Kurt:
[11:09] What would be an ideal Canada.

Geoff:
[11:10] How you know Mitt Romney share.

Kurt:
[11:14] Find me the type of person.

Geoff:
[11:15] Gordon B Hinckley El Ron Hubbard let’s see of a living person got who’s the most salient,
we have tried for years to get Lindsey Stirling on the show to have some contacts there but it’s never come to fruition so that would be fun obviously you know the McKay coppins is the creme-de-la-creme cuz whenever we interview McKay coppins the show is over I don’t make another show after that episode.

Kurt:
[11:38] Did you get his contact information or something.

Geoff:
[11:42] I’ve met that cares about it just just a little bit under a year ago we went to an event over the Newseum the Deseret News sponsored he was there and I creepily was like and I like seriously I talked to him with butterflies in my stomach like some kind of Fanboy,
this is like my Comic Con.

Kurt:
[11:59] Did you buy them on I mean.

Geoff:
[12:05] He is not come on I obviously you would have heard that I don’t know that I have,
perhaps I haven’t fully explored that possibility because of my commitment to end the show if it happens right so I don’t know maybe we just do the interview or do the interview pocketed until we decide the show is over
and then publish it years later as the final episode,
right so interviews are always great we have some I’ve been working on but I’m always welcome to any of you know keep sending email contact with this we can worms. Come if you if you know of anyone or the something would you think we should explore,
all for that I think we’ve done some fun interviews especially the past year or so I expect she likes having the ladies from show-offs on in December they were great,
definition of that episode super fun and one of my other favorite ones with Matt Harris what you did in the fall who wrote the book about Ezra Taft Benson in the rise of basically right-wing fundamentalism within the church,
and we’re hoping to have him back again this year she’s got another book.

Kurt:
[13:07] Around that same topic.

Geoff:
[13:09] Sort of I mean he is a scholar of that. Of church history is that there be some elements of that so,
yeah Benson would be involved yes but some other aspects of that he was he’s a fascinating guy really rich talk to super nice guest I’m only recorded the show with him we were,
off the Record offline for like an hour and a half to chatting about more stuff afterwards that I wish I had a record of but I was not supposed to,
two more of these are good I also this is January right now is the seventh it’ll be a kind a couple of weeks we officially celebrate our tenth anniversary the first episode of twin came out in the end of January 2010,
I would like to tell you we have massive celebrations planned but we don’t but if any of you come to DC you can buy me lunch and we will,
we will sell.

Kurt:
[13:57] Are you going to maybe rebroadcast the episode with an interject your commentary that maybe interesting gif.

Geoff:
[14:04] That’s actually not a bad idea Allan I should hop on and Mystery Science Theater 3000 our first episode that was actually pretty funny.

Kurt:
[14:13] All sorts of ideas.

Geoff:
[14:14] You’re the ideas guy that’s why you do this forever live.

Kurt:
[14:17] And then I remember of what about the head that that’s a series how’s about motherhood or something is that too.

Geoff:
[14:25] We have the motherhood Series last year also great Josie to Dynamite work with that or we’ve explored some more.

Kurt:
[14:29] I mean but those are just killer as far as putting them together I mean that’s a lot of work.

Geoff:
[14:34] It was a lot of work we’ve we’ve talked about doing other similar special ones and those didn’t even replace the weekly shows just bonus contact got to up at 2 podcast a week while you’re setting that up,
that was great I was a lot of fun I hope we can do more things along in that vein as well.

Kurt:
[14:50] Call.

Geoff:
[14:51] So good guess we’ll still be doing the news we’re going to be in a working in most of the hosts that you know probably some other new ones might come along here and I’ll try to mix things up a bit,
and and we’re just going to know and then we’re going to relocate to Utah.

Kurt:
[15:09] That’s right when you get enough patreon funds and then you can move your whole family out here open a studio and then go from there.

Geoff:
[15:18] Because I love it when people I have out of my life people suggest you know I could we could work on getting a job opportunity cost of living like you’ll love it out here but then you see what they pay and I’ve never found that wasn’t a very expensive metropolitan area live in DC,
I have never found that the cost of living adjustment,
is properly balanced by The Plunge in wages okay I have felt like you looking like what a mortgage is if you’re in somewhere like Arkansas or whatever yeah you can like have a whole house for $1,000 a month that’s nice.

Kurt:
[15:53] But you live in Arkansas all right.

Geoff:
[15:56] No no I don’t need something wrong people living in Arkansas it’s just feel like okay but,
if you say your current mortgage is costing you $2,200 a month for something that’s fine and modest to the suburbs of DC,
so you save $1,200 a month so that’s $14,000 a year
and the Deltas never there the job the pig cut is always like 30 grand a year so I struggle to see how you people who think you have lower cost-of-living truly have lower cost of living also in Utah you have lung problems because your government will not do anything to combat pollution,
tell her.

Kurt:
[16:30] What are they supposed to do Jeff make me carpool.

Geoff:
[16:35] They could do things to combat pollution yes there steps you can take.

Kurt:
[16:37] Oh the never ending debate here in Salt Lake.

Geoff:
[16:42] Yeah well we have drifted far here having wait 20 20 questions.

Kurt:
[16:47] I think so I think we’re just looking forward to the the year hopefully there’s not as many weeks as far as news goes like this week because that boy we have some we have some zingers,
are you getting a text Jeff.

Geoff:
[17:03] No I’m I’ll just jump in my first story I’m installing and playing with the hoping to play with the Tree of Life augmented real.

Kurt:
[17:12] Yep downloaded on android doesn’t work for me.

Geoff:
[17:17] Okay I’ve got my Android download going in that it forces you to download more content it’s a big app the app is like a gig and it’s making me download 244 more Megabytes of content as we speak so what am I talking about Tree of Life.

Kurt:
[17:29] So is this supposed to be some type of like Pokemon go type thing like I’m have enough to like walk around.

Geoff:
[17:35] Augmented reality is in is that has Pokemon go it’s a Harry Potter game it’s when you walk into the camera and see things that other stuff pops up on your phone augmenting reality so that virtual reality so you would walk around,
and experience the tree of life story from Juno first Nephi chapter 8,
and like talks pop-up and scriptural references and eventually you can get to the tree itself,
and hang out under the tree with Lehigh played by the incomparable Rick Macy Rick Macy should be on our show everyone if any of you know Rick Macy,
that man is royalty,
select the surface 4 there’s a viewing preference do I want to view from a table or the floor I don’t even know what this means.

Kurt:
[18:23] And maybe if you have a table if it’s on the table then he slipped the table I don’t know.

Geoff:
[18:29] I’m going to do table so this app okay so touch the screen to introduce the experience into your world move your device light.

Kurt:
[18:37] Here we go Jeff you’re literally having the vision of the tree of life like Nephi I wonder if he had a smartphone on this is happening.

Geoff:
[18:46] It’s not doing anything right now it’s give there’s some kind of register a surface.

Kurt:
[18:52] Nothing you get nothing.

Geoff:
[18:55] It’s giving me some kind of a compass of sorts.

Kurt:
[18:58] Did you just see your basement maybe does it show your basement fully remodeled like you hope that.

Geoff:
[19:06] That will never happen I’m convinced I’m convinced my life is going to be like Murphy Brown or my handyman somehow was working for 9 season straight,
this doesn’t seem to work I don’t know what time.

Kurt:
[19:20] Yeah I think there’s some bugs there’s some scrambling down at Church headquarters.

Geoff:
[19:25] I don’t know what’s going on so,
it’s a fascinating idea I mean yeah that is basically you can do take your house and it will instead bring up the whole journey still like an iron Rod will appear and you can walk along and you can teach your family I can see genuinely good use cases like we’re having a laugh about it but,
and it’ll show you and your loved one thing to put your kids in front of you I think it’ll show them walking in the in the darkness and there I don’t know if when you see the great and spacious building if you hear people yelling at you.

Kurt:
[19:55] Yeah can you go in and take it to her and and see all sorts of inappropriate Netflix shows.

Geoff:
[20:02] See I don’t know if I can’t get into it I want to think that you can because that should be an option right I mean this this is Choose Your Own Adventure with the tree of life you should be also be allowed to fail and wander off into the darkness then divert.

Kurt:
[20:14] Every teenage young man the minute they get on this app that’s exactly where they’re going.

Geoff:
[20:19] I’m going to the river yes.

Kurt:
[20:22] I’ve had it so did you ever do just do the activity as a youth where you like turn your church into like the lehi’s dream and the iron rod.

Geoff:
[20:34] No I’ve heard of people do that don’t sound like we did that exact.

Kurt:
[20:34] This this this may be a very much a Utah thing but.

Geoff:
[20:39] I don’t know what that you talking but I’ve heard of people doing that we did not do it tell me more.

Kurt:
[20:42] Well I always ended up in the telestial Kingdom mainly because,
there was a teacher or like I didn’t Seminary once a Terry youth advisor would say just
will let you come back to the right and used to kind of feel like I could sort of felt like they broke character for a moment like he just come in here I need your help with something like okay and he’s like,
and he’s like that’s how they have a Siri works don’t you forget it and I’m not okay so I hung out in the Celestial Kingdom and ate Hot Tamales and that was it,
so now instead of that active,
all the expense that goes to turning the church into lehi’s dream you can now do the app and and I wonder do they like what it’s like map your house like it what if the iron rod goes through a wall or something does it is it smart enough.

Geoff:
[21:30] Erase AOL man just got to go through that wall.

Kurt:
[21:33] Well.

Geoff:
[21:36] Now. Speaking of this I could still use case for other classic stories from The Book of Mormon. There any to pop in your mind like queso the the tree of life is very it’s a very famous story won the most important ones in the Book of Mormon
that is a nice kind of dere that where it guesses from A to B R A to Z rather right explaining things do we have other instances that we could use for an educational purpose.

Kurt:
[21:56] Various Wars or battles in Elma that we could really make it TV MA.

Geoff:
[22:05] But I think Alma over the m in chopping off the arms of the lamanites I could be fun this is a Gore.

Kurt:
[22:14] It’s like the the the Cyber battle or saber battle whatever that’s.

Geoff:
[22:19] No it’s like fruits like fruit ninja just have to swipe your finger.

Kurt:
[22:22] I can see maybe more of an application like in Doctrine covenants Cena with some church history sites and maybe you know imagine going to the Kirtland Temple but the augmented reality is it takes you back to you know the 18,
30s or whatever and de and let you walk around historic you know kirtlander.

Geoff:
[22:42] Now you said you would actually use it in the Kirtland Temple.

Kurt:
[22:44] Not in the temple but in Kirtland itself right like maybe outside and.

Geoff:
[22:49] We have to own the Kirtland Temple.

Kurt:
[22:50] This is true but let’s be honest we really.

Geoff:
[22:52] Or we need some sweet but a sweet joint venture with the Community of Christ that could be fun.

Kurt:
[22:58] But.

Geoff:
[23:00] Other good ones I want do Alma and amulek the whole stretching him and I are whole thing going in there getting in trouble going in prison the prison falls down the whole thing.

Kurt:
[23:10] This is the geography isn’t as detailed right as the as the lehi’s dream was very specific cell.

Geoff:
[23:17] It’s true the truth we has rooms extremely specific which is to his benefit.

Kurt:
[23:21] So I don’t Jeff maybe any biblical Events maybe the mirror.

Geoff:
[23:28] The flood obviously.

Kurt:
[23:29] The Parables you could do a whole series of Parables Christ Parables that you.

Geoff:
[23:34] All the variables be great.

Kurt:
[23:37] See wondering 10 virgins.

Geoff:
[23:40] Adam and Eve in general.

Kurt:
[23:41] Garden the Garden of Eden again Jeff,
let me let me take you back a few episodes when I predicted that the temple to Temple experience would would be moved to Virtual Reality this is the first step Jeff there is going to be small branches in,
I don’t know Siberia where is it or Mongolia where they don’t have access to the temple so instead they’ll download the app the go to the church and they will go to the whole experience.

Geoff:
[24:12] Before 1 if it would listen to us and finally build the Temple of new loan but are the capital of Mongolia that would not be an issue,
that beat last year alone the church formerly allowed cell phones to go inside the temple obviously not supposed to use it but they.

Kurt:
[24:27] You can use it like if you need a name print it or whatever.

Geoff:
[24:32] Subsoil now especially now because now you do so much that online but you’re not supposed to use that kind of past the desk areas in the temple he know what’s your witch in the locker room put it on airplane mode so that’s a great idea.

Kurt:
[24:40] Because you’ve never looked at your phone in the privacy of your locker I bet never.

Geoff:
[24:46] I’d look at it and say airplane mode by phone.

Kurt:
[24:49] That’s right.

Geoff:
[24:51] Could you imagine if we got some terrible point where it’s the middle of a set like a session and you see some guy next to you just like looking over his phone just checking his messages and I’ll be like two,
I wonder what they would do with this. Just I think it would stop.

Kurt:
[25:03] I’m sure it’s happened I’m sure it’s happened.

Geoff:
[25:06] Chiming people I’m curious if you’ve seen this is a temple worker or been in a session what tell us what happened I’ve never seen it myself so I want to know,
so anyway that’s not new app downloaded folks I cannot I cannot for.ios a little bit earlier than Android Android finally came out today and see if you can’t get it to work cuz I’m still can’t open it again this one last shot.
are you walking to move on to another story while I see if I.

Kurt:
[25:32] All right well I’ll.

Geoff:
[25:33] And then I’ll chime in if I.

Kurt:
[25:34] So it’s speaking of groundbreaking steps in technology that they have the church is created through the Joseph Smith papers project a new First Vision podcast
and you can see the details of this podcast at at the at the website here which I had up momentarily.

Geoff:
[25:56] This weekend.

Kurt:
[25:58] Write this week in Mormons yes so this is the first vision is called the first vision,
Joseph Smith papers podcast which is a six-part miniseries from the Joseph Smith papers project that explores the history and Legacy of Joseph Smith
First Vision which is hosted by Spencer McBride who used to be my sake and interviews a variety of,
appeal I guess I used to be in his steaks I moved he did not,
and this is great I listen to the introductory or that the prologue which introduced the podcast and Have you listened to any of the interviews Jeff.

Geoff:
[26:36] I haven’t listened to my bread some of the transcripts of them but I have it.

Kurt:
[26:40] This is great this is sort of one of those one of those flashes of Awesome,
progression in the church with technology that I love that you sort of Hope the church continues to do this type of thing
but I feel like they have so many projects and directions that Daddy’s fun ones often times get to put on the bottom of the list of priorities but especially this coming year with the restoration,
and the upcoming conference that supposed to be like none other than another conference ever held this is you know focus on the restoration this is cool
great way to spruce up on the old first vision and and death.

Geoff:
[27:20] I think it’s great I mean it’s it’s it’s 6 episodes it’s funny cuz it’s podcast you can download it where we get Podcast but it’s obviously,
I mean it’s a one-off you know something to be updated content I’m surprised at least go for that releasing episode of the time one per week like a,
podcast format get to site but they vary so much alike to me there’s a 9-minute episode and 44 minute episodes so it’s,
all over the place but they cover all kinds of stuff at me that the first one talks about the social the social social cultural and economic changes created in an environment
in which Americans of Joseph Smith’s time or actively engage in conversations about religion the next one talks about Joseph seeking answers,
third one talks about the sensory experience of the environment in which Joseph Smith prayed what did the place that came to be called the sacred grove look like when Joseph Smith entered what did it sound like what did it smell like they devote 15 minutes.

Kurt:
[28:16] Nice.

Geoff:
[28:18] I actually want to know I said it kind of glibly but I want to know like,
what do they talk about I got to listen to that one I mean is it say it here’s how it smelled it smelled like a deciduous forest because that’s what it was.

Kurt:
[28:30] There’s a lot of that you know Oak maybe some smells of Oak.

Geoff:
[28:33] That’s what we need augmented reality.

Kurt:
[28:35] Hey there’s another idea that the sacred grove you could.

Geoff:
[28:39] It’s so much people walking around looking at their phone that’s like.

Kurt:
[28:43] Just like poke Pokemon go ruin Society.

Geoff:
[28:44] There’s a there’s there’s it’s like up there’s a few of them there’s two of them up there in the sky found them.

Kurt:
[28:51] Over here guys come check it out.

Geoff:
[28:53] Over here and then you like that that’s okay the apostate meter is ticking and then it was then fourth episode is a retelling of the first Vision but incorporating all nine accounts of the event,
so it’s a straight-up a retelling of it are the long one episode five talks a lot more about the aftermath of the vision that one goes a bit more detail about why we have different versions how to reconcile all of that,
and then the last one sort of pranks at home talking about how does why does this resonate today why is it important to attend school.

Kurt:
[29:24] I think this is the beginning of a trend that cuz I think the church started like a a female or women podcast for something did you see that.

Geoff:
[29:36] Yes we talked about that last week There’s a podcast.

Kurt:
[29:38] Rights and so maybe they’re getting to my discus and as they say they know podcast are the new blog even though Jeff we were way ahead of our time when we started these silly things,
but yeah hopefully there’s more of this type of thing cuz there’s so much
type of content in researching especially the Joseph Smith papers project that they could really go to to to create some great content that be intriguing so.

Geoff:
[30:05] So I got the app to load.

[30:10] Right now listeners.

Kurt:
[30:12] Do you see anything Jeff.

Geoff:
[30:13] Highpoint I pointed it toward my floors I’m kind of back to the mic,
I see the entire Tableau of it basically so there’s a river you see some ground and some fog in a rod in a tree I don’t know if you can see any of this or not on my phone.

Kurt:
[30:27] Not really so just like put the right there,
oh I see I see yes.

Geoff:
[30:38] It kind of puts it all right there there’s a great and spacious building.

Kurt:
[30:41] So just Maps it on whatever room you’re in.

Geoff:
[30:44] I think I’m supposed to walk around more like zoom in and Bill to walk the path you can tap on things so if I click on the great and spacious building it brings up people mocking me.

Kurt:
[30:53] They’re pointing and laughing gif cool.

Geoff:
[30:58] Therefore look look at that loser and then there’s some quotes and it’s video that support I see in the background the whole stay the whole time there’s a weird it looks like a drive-in movie screen,
Rick Macy is Lehigh just kind of walking around and interacting.

Kurt:
[31:14] So

Geoff:
[31:15] This is my new favorite thing on the take us to work tomorrow and let people be very.

Kurt:
[31:17] Can’t you can’t move unless you get up and walk around like.

Geoff:
[31:22] I would assume that.

Kurt:
[31:23] If you use this in a classroom your whole class as to stand up in and roam the halls of the church.

Geoff:
[31:29] Yes or at least your classroom I don’t know what the limits are as we are recording a podcast tonight routed to my microphone to make this possible I have not done a full.

Kurt:
[31:38] Awesome Jeff.

Geoff:
[31:39] Maybe I’ll get one of those exciting times well well.

Kurt:
[31:45] Where we going next.

Geoff:
[31:47] Real quick mention but I kind of I like to see faith in action so on Christmas Eve,
the Pacific area presidency announced a January National fast but this went viral around the world the fastest because of the terrible wildfires in Australia,
everyone’s been monitoring the situation they seen how it’s been terribly and they invited all the Australian Saints to unite together and fast to have relief from the brush fires and the drought conditions that have,
ravage the country in an unbelievable way they think half a billion animals have been killed,
it’s the course destroyed property and just land all kinds of things around so I do people out here who looks like I’m fasting for Australia,
and I’m glad that we can it’s a good use of sits like a good story for social media saying this story get picked up and everyone else sees it,
it’s not just limited to getting me a strong and Saints to pray but how things have all of us pray for us to be like these are horrible wildfires I mean the graphic they have on the story,
is like,
you know it shows where the fires are and the fires are all that pretty much everywhere but the desert of us driver there’s nothing to burn it just everywhere else it’s just fires.

Kurt:
[33:01] So is this is this typical for a show a man obviously not to this extent but do they have like a season of brush fires are like we have wildfires.

Geoff:
[33:09] Wildfires are I don’t I’m not a lovely Josie’s to chime in on this one but,
order husband Jeremy tell us what’s up,
I believe there are kind of common given the climate conditions there of course have a dry season California wildfire season right October is a terrible time of year there yet while trying to get something to eat dried out
time of year when it can happen I think there’s a lot of similarities in Australia and some parts of it climate-wise but of course this is just above &.

Kurt:
[33:39] Yeah I saw I saw some graphic that put the the the map of Australia on the map of the United States just give you perspective like,
and I like so many states of be like on fire right it’s not just like when we have wildfires here usually around in California or are there places and it is massive and it’s tragic and covers a lot of land but,
this is still quite concentrated as far as.

Geoff:
[34:04] But this is a nor this is all over the country,
all the coast everywhere even leave it done luscious Tasmania you know it’s of course summer in Australia right now so that’s what’s making this worse so I’ve got to see faith in action
let’s hope it gets better I was I was sad to see there was some story about rain coming and helping with wildfires,
it’s already going on social media that story was dated like September of last.

Kurt:
[34:26] We love a good day a good story Jeff Wright.

Geoff:
[34:32] We love our headlines more than we love actually reading the content of Fortune.

Kurt:
[34:35] But I’m sure you know faith has been manifested let’s sit let’s expect a miracle continue to pray for.

Geoff:
[34:42] Yeah I’m going to give you like another quick mention here there’s like a story at the church’s website about how this Latter Day Saints submarine officer finds Gospel Light under the sea.

Kurt:
[34:56] So I mean imagine it Jess if you were miles below the surface of the sea and you are,
been there done that so this article start up with relating this this wonderful individual who is named he’s US Navy Commander Kelly Lang and.

Geoff:
[35:15] Cuz I bet I can’t think about which Old Testament story this might try to.

Kurt:
[35:19] That that would be.

Geoff:
[35:20] Like it itself onto.

Kurt:
[35:22] Jonah Jeff I could Jonah spent three days.

Geoff:
[35:26] I thought was going to be the light shine.

Kurt:
[35:28] No no no talking donkeys either David Jonah spent three days living the Bell evil well and this you know.

Geoff:
[35:37] Commander commander laying Spends months living in Tucson.

Kurt:
[35:38] Kelly Wright who’s also a member of the bishopric his it spends a lot of time down there so just talks about how he find Solitude down there obviously sometimes the Wi-Fi doesn’t work at times down that,
down that that.

Geoff:
[35:52] No way.

Kurt:
[35:52] Especially when they are on very covert and top secret missions that they.

Geoff:
[35:58] Oh yeah I got to kill the net.

Kurt:
[35:59] Yeah they can’t just don’t have the be discovered through their their Facebook you know,
profile but anyway so yeah he just talked about how he has destroyed the scriptures how it connects with God how he stays connected with his family and that it’s a good,
inspiring feel good story with peppered with Incredible family pictures where they look very happy and healthy.

Geoff:
[36:27] It’s also good to I mean you know cuz the church makes accommodations for our servicemen and women and that he mentions his ships there’s other Latter Day Saints in the force is applied to other faiths as well but the church,
I believe they have the service they’re they’re committed to bless of sacrament,
cuz I record presumably are still in their Ward but it’s wonderful that even if you’re literally under water for days or weeks on end what you can do in a cell.

Kurt:
[36:52] Yeah when I’ll share one little snippet here says when serving it see far from his home ward he also participates in some form of weekly Sabbath day services to / take the sacrament enjoy the fellowship of Latter-day Saint Shipmates
laying has served a 4,
a Lincoln served for submarines during his Naval career most recently as the commander of the USS Maine in Ohio Classic,
ballistic missile news.

Geoff:
[37:21] Ohio classic big Subs.

Kurt:
[37:24] It’s been said that when the main is operational the boat would rate at one of the most powerful nuclear Nations on Earth by the naval officer it says as in several times I was the only person at
church for the first couple of weeks after the
appointment started he said that I was always I’ve always found someone who was just sitting in the Woodworks they just needed someone to step up so I always talk about how that
viruses Latter Day Saints Ministry in Sulphur.

Geoff:
[37:54] Good store school to see it’s fun to see people I’d I do like that in the very first Captain to makes a point to say,
a returned missionary us Commander Kelly Lang has spent more that’s his that’s the first one they just had to throw that one in there it’s not relevant to the story this is a church is peppering in,
the reminder that he’s also returned missionary and you should be one to that’s what this is.

Kurt:
[38:16] Geoff I know you I know you love a good acronym.

Geoff:
[38:22] I do but one quickly I want to plug,
this came from church news you know the church news which is literally the website the church news.com recently the church news,
actually released an app and it worth getting it’s pretty well done so it’s at the church news app so if you yeah it’s barely came out,
you can all download it where we get your apps and it’s a news app like any other but all the news is really into the church has got a pretty decent interface to get stuff done it seems like in some ways it was designed with iOS in mind can I graffiti but whatever,
so just deployed I want to get out there it’s cool to check out.

Kurt:
[38:59] So Jeff what’s your favorite Latter-Day Saint acronym and it can’t be LDS cuz that means you’re sitting effuse at.

Geoff:
[39:06] Has Miss A LSD then when people confuse it with,
drop some tabs yo my faith I kid you not I have never decided what my favorite Latter Day Saint related acronym is I should say BSA because Boy Scouts are officially no longer part of the fan,
this is our first week sound Boy Scouts.

Kurt:
[39:29] Well a shout-out to Jeff borders who writes out the Fantastic content for at this week in Mormons and sometimes leading Saints he’s got some acronym Olympics here at f h e y c o b y c w y c,
byd I mean it goes on and on and what are some what’s wyc Jeff this is your test.

Geoff:
[39:51] Probably Ward youth committee.

Kurt:
[39:54] Yeah alright.

Geoff:
[39:55] What’s the temperature to be white.

Kurt:
[39:58] Dyc Brett Bishop youth cancel the old one.

Geoff:
[40:02] One thing I was not aware of until recently until I have my other for a while my calling is the word executive secretary that Bishops youth Fireside no longer exist to the thing as The Bishop’s youth discussion byd.

Kurt:
[40:15] Oleico.

Geoff:
[40:16] I’m late to the party on this.

Kurt:
[40:18] When they used to like go to the Bishops House and have a.

Geoff:
[40:23] Yeah I saw those growing up but they’re not called Fireside anymore today discussion.

Kurt:
[40:26] The Fireside is still a term.

Geoff:
[40:29] I believe so but they reserve it for better things at crsp what Relief Society president or president young women’s president with PMG.

Kurt:
[40:36] Preach my gospel Jeff preach my gospel that was.

Geoff:
[40:39] Okay jst is Joseph Smith translation sure pearl of great price articles of Faith b i c.

Kurt:
[40:46] Pic man everybody screaming at their their podcast player right now I don’t know I don’t know.

Geoff:
[41:00] British integrated cartography.

Kurt:
[41:02] Bishopric interview Council.

Geoff:
[41:06] Sure that’s it do you have to be a wiseass.

Kurt:
[41:06] How about what what do you think PPI stands for I mean I think people have.

Geoff:
[41:12] Personal priesthood in.

Kurt:
[41:14] Then some people would say it’s personal progress interview because that is more inclusive Jeff of all genders.

Geoff:
[41:18] Would be women that’s his women don’t have the priesthood in their jealousy.

Kurt:
[41:22] Nor should we be calling diprete like individuals priest it right as we learn for president Oaks so there’s another acronym that needs to go up on the Shelf next to LDS PPI.

Geoff:
[41:34] What dim sleepy all the time. What did you say instead.

Kurt:
[41:39] I’m just saying that.

Geoff:
[41:41] No help me cuz I got to be scheduled out of my Bishop was scheduled ppis would like the elders Quorum president the Relief Society presidency.

Kurt:
[41:46] It would just be it would just be at an interview right a meeting.

Geoff:
[41:52] I mean that’s that might be a lot for me to ask I still have trouble with people are weird not knowing how to spell our words name.

Kurt:
[41:58] What’s your words name.

Geoff:
[42:01] It’s not it’s not spelling it correctly so our Ward is Lake it’s one of the Lakeridge Wards and Lakeridge has two words but so off it often goes out as Once-ler.

Kurt:
[42:10] Lakeridge.

Geoff:
[42:11] Is one word which is incorrect I’m in the records state it is.

Kurt:
[42:16] Imagine individuals who are in the Oquirrh Wards I’m sure there’s some Oquirrh Mountain War.

Geoff:
[42:22] No they’re not called oak or anything because Utah was the Pioneer in getting away from having the first second third ward we still do that where I am to all the words out there and Daybreak are called like the the blue dreams.

Kurt:
[42:33] Smiley face Ward.

Geoff:
[42:35] The will the will-o’-wisp ward the Eastern Shores Ward.

Kurt:
[42:41] They’re named after Street.

Geoff:
[42:43] I don’t know how they do it in Utah Utah of all places I’m you got so many awards got to get difficult to be creative after so.

Kurt:
[42:48] It is but basically they’re the one that big girls is it is you have to be able to Google it like there has to be a landmark a park a street or something in order to use that name right so.

Geoff:
[42:59] That’s the weirdest named after our broader Community further compounding the issue is that I live in development code Westridge but Westridge is one word but Lakeridge next door is two words and that’s for what’s the word their name very confusing places we live in here in Virginia.

Kurt:
[43:13] Anyways.

Geoff:
[43:14] There’s a lot easier when I just looked in the Alexandria Ward that was a lot cleaner.

Kurt:
[43:17] So Jeff borders writes a great article just about the our acronym culture in our in our Latter-Day Saint culture and I think it’s worth considering fun article Jeff are always does fun stuff which leads me to another yes.

Geoff:
[43:30] Also props for using the GIF of Judd rhyme Judge Reinhold from The Santa Clause and it is to most recent articles,
two in a row he’s busted out that gif so good job Jeff other than either you’re really committed to doing some kind of weird consistent Thing by always using it wasn’t what you should be doing at this point or you just forgot,
but I want to believe that you are doing it intentionally continue now.

Kurt:
[43:52] Yeah so I feel like this,
you get the conduct L into a recent series we’ve been doing over at the leading Saints Instagram feed what you can all follow it to instagram.com leading Saints which is two words but one word in Instagram,
language right obviously but we noticed in our culture and Jeff I’m sure you have noticed this as well maybe you just haven’t realized it but we have a habit of hanging signs in a culture,
area answer in RF in her church like you no no no.

Geoff:
[44:26] In what way I mean.

Kurt:
[44:28] Just like rules Like rules of the building like you know no red punch in the gym or something like that or no red punch outside the gym more.

Geoff:
[44:37] My work doesn’t know what I’ve been in has a problem hanging side say no punch in the gym that’s never been a thing.

Kurt:
[44:43] That was just a random example Jeff but so a what weave.

Geoff:
[44:46] Can think of any signs that have dictated behavior in my building.

Kurt:
[44:50] So this let me give you some examples of of signs I’ve seen so please wipe your feet leave the leaves outside right no equipment is to be taken from this building without permission,
sincerely the state.

Geoff:
[45:05] Sounds like you’re just bad people.

Kurt:
[45:06] Librarian know maybe it is a Utah culture thing but I’ve received many signs from,
outside of this great state of Utah please shut door tightly
all these things so there’s been individuals sending me various signs and I called him leadership through signs because sometimes leaders we feel like there must be a sign this is a problem we must hang us and I feel like you could be distracting,
to a point where I’ve literally seen some buildings I have more signs,
of Rules and Things then they do like Gospel Art or beautiful paintings of.

Geoff:
[45:42] I’ve never seen this is a thing.

Kurt:
[45:44] Your Avon,
turn down that part of your brain and you will be more aware of I bet you you can find more than one sign in your building this Sunday that you’re that your homework Jeff.

Geoff:
[45:55] I will I will be more than happy to look for it while I have the.

Kurt:
[45:58] Snap a picture and send it to me so.

Geoff:
[46:01] I was going to wander around the hall doing my tree of life.

Kurt:
[46:04] You don’t need to II our anymore.

Geoff:
[46:06] I mean guys it’s an Elder’s Quorum Sunday so you know this is a better use of my time,
Wright’s who’s with.

Kurt:
[46:13] But you love your elders.

Geoff:
[46:14] Real quick I just want to ask you something because you want to talk about the story like did your time change for church because this is something you really want to talk about for some reason Kern has it on the list to say let’s talk about time.

Kurt:
[46:27] As the audience is known as has noticed at this point it’s it’s been a slow news week I mean,
not too many Mormons Behaving Badly not too many like,
billions of dollars scandals you know that type of thing so I threw some items in there and let me ask you Jeff what what time does church start now.

Geoff:
[46:50] Didn’t matter because it might stick they change the time in September to follow the school.

Kurt:
[46:54] I’ve heard that to thing in some places you prefer that Jeff because it doesn’t maybe maybe when you’re.

Geoff:
[47:00] I don’t know if I prefer it or not.

Kurt:
[47:02] You have more kids at school.

Geoff:
[47:04] When I’m working maybe but otherwise it’s just going okay this is how we do it whatever it’s kind of nice to go through in the new years and just come to church at the same time I guess that’s kind of fun.

Kurt:
[47:13] Mr. nice.

Geoff:
[47:13] Not Avenue block a really crucial discussion what about for you how is the change for you are you are you recovering I mean it’s been a week.

Kurt:
[47:21] I could go on and on Jeff.

Geoff:
[47:21] It’s been like 2 days two and a half.

Kurt:
[47:24] Is good go home at 11:30 and.

Geoff:
[47:26] Difficult for you stop it.

Kurt:
[47:28] Had the whole day to continue my fast.

Geoff:
[47:30] Oh my gosh I get home at 12:30 we’re so alike you and I.

Kurt:
[47:33] Goodness I’m glad we got that out of the way Jeff it needed be.

Geoff:
[47:37] Basically the same person and I’m glad that we had this discussion I feel closer to you spiritually emotionally,
physically if this were like the last Star Wars movie where I could take your headphones off of your head from there.

Kurt:
[47:51] Right I could hand you a lightsaber from across the country.

Geoff:
[47:57] I find you want a story let’s talk about Mormons using Medicaid and if they should.

Kurt:
[48:01] Oh my goodness this if it if there’s one article that needs to be that that shows evidence it’s a slow news week this is it gif.

Geoff:
[48:09] So it’s around the Washington Post.

[48:14] And made by history Allison Kelly whose a PhD candidate is asking where the Mormon should use Medicaid essentially that we talked about self-reliance,
and that’s important and also public spending like should we use Medicaid or on principle do we say no no no the government is not good,
we want to do things ourselves. The funny thing is,
this article is kind of got some good data but I don’t think the arguments are completely there and of course this was inspired by the big mess at BYU Idaho,
hug a month or so ago when they decided to stop accepting Medicaid as a plan if you were a student would cause a lot of problems.

[48:51] Neat’s and they argued that yet so her argument with it having students on Medicaid with antithetical to the church’s commitment to individual self-reliance I don’t know if that’s what drove it really I think I might be a stretch,
historically opposed welfare systems as they exist,
so the stock market crash of 1929 which everyone that means get ready because I’m 9 years you get to enjoy another depression for the Centennial exposed
what she described as an adequacy is of the church’s welfare system so basically at the time in 1935 in the middle of the depression 17.9% of Latter-day Saints received some form of relief
we’re welfare and 16.3% of those received it from public sources while only 1.6% were receiving Church funds.

[49:45] But its history went on Church leadership especially Heber J Grant was not big on social security the Lord wanted him to establish the church’s own so-called security plan,
a free sample to fight the depression so it’s fine.

[50:02] And I think it’s an okay thing to discuss because,
people assume that we have posed initiatives related to our safety net I think because most,
Mormon politicians are Republicans and therefore I want to slash entitlements or privatize them in some way right into that doesn’t really represent the church,
as a whole kind of a goofy pissed what I like is at times and Seasons wrote an article about it saying the headline,
should historians write about current event yet maybe not but when they do
they shouldn’t look like this and it leaks to the article so first it’s about Medicaid a great program especially in its expansion and assistant births of around half the babies born in the United States,
my family,
benefited from it a great deal so does the church support the use of Medicaid and officially yes it does because the church is on Welfare manual says is it appropriate if an individual is receiving government welfare assistance to use Church welfare assistance as well,
the response members may choose to use resources in the community including government resources to meet their basic needs the bishop should be familiar with these resources and resources such as this often include Hospital’s Physicians or other sources of medical 8.

Kurt:
[51:17] So obviously that the Articles proposing a question to think about right as far as
social programs in in welfare programs as a relates to members of the church and during my time serving as Bishop obviously I helped a lot of individuals with welfare needs and it was sort of interesting to see that
you know it’s very much emphasized that church welfare help not be used for long-term,
issues right in this maybe he’s outside,
discussion talking generally about social needs typically you would work towards or that individual work for the gaming on getting on government,
welfare programs,
in order to stop the church resources but my question is is that backwards should we be growing as a church in order to stay in line with the self-reliance perspective
going moving towards a place where instead of the government helping those in need in our in our church,
moving to place where we can help those individuals and we wouldn’t that be more along the lines of this General perspective being self-reliant what you think Jeff.

Geoff:
[52:29] I don’t know if it’s our model exactly I mean like I said the whole point of it is for church resources available,
if they’re needed I know what you feel bad about you,
that’s crucial should never feel bad for that like you can’t or like it’s a burden or what have you it’s there for a reason,
but like you said that comes with the idea that you’re not doing this forever,
don’t play this is stuff is hard right now we’re here to help and that’s okay let’s let us help you while you get better while you get back on your feet and so that you can,
take care of yourself and so that you can some day of course play a role in helping others who are in a similar position that you might currently being with that said,
in Academia we would describe what you want this sort of a doucher de facto argument right I think de facto meaning it like in reality we have many of people who are getting Church welfare and have been for a long time and it does not change when you were a bishop you saw this,
there were people where this was not a thing for a couple of months until I got there for the four years have had the church helping them get through.

Kurt:
[53:31] And then it would be very difficult as they move into war like mine and that was just not the you know the plan right and we had a ship that and I look like the bad guy but anyways.

Geoff:
[53:43] Not not easy. So course what you’re proposing is that we more formalize it instead and say let’s just say we have more long-term resources available so you’re not using the government resources at the same time,
I also if you would like as a citizen of the US that like I’m paying taxes to support these systems so people are using them okay,
that’s why I said why that money is being taxed if the if everyone of the church,
usage at the church it’s not like I got it like tax relief from it or anything else I want to necessarily know that but it’s also a question of what should the church extend itself outside of the church and become a bigger welfare arm for the broader community and,
I don’t know if we want to cross that bridge I also know when General were very insular is a people and we don’t do enough with our community I don’t know that expanding our welfare program,
into the community is the best bit of like,
PR that we could do is turn for Church of Outreach to build better relationships I’m drifting a little bit here I don’t know if it’s for us to expand it though as you might.

Kurt:
[54:41] Well I guess I guess I’m into something that’s really something I’m proposing you’re saying it’s a good idea but in the context of this article where,
get I think you’ll learn to the that some of these legislators are you know the more Republican conservative legislators are saying let’s take this out of the hands of the government and so wouldn’t those legislators in the context of being Latter Day Saints say you know why don’t we be the church
it is handling all of our welfare needs and you know we can beat at beacon on the hill that that the example of like look at this organization
they take care of themselves and do that would be more on brand with our self-reliance you know our self-reliance principle.

Geoff:
[55:24] Yes I heard all of you read The Washington Post please and then we will link to this this time and Seasons piece is great cuz Jonathan green too thickly takes down her points one by one it is not pleased because you’re using spurious evidence or any at all just to make a point.

Kurt:
[55:38] But there was a deadline Jeff there was a deadline.

Geoff:
[55:39] Speculation is not evidence having having seen online chatter is not the same as like the church officially acknowledging something especially people argued that the,
you know that this was the church that do the BYU Idaho to buy perfectly Illustrated the churches,
antipathy towards welfare programs and it’s like Bill the data doesn’t fully support that it’s just that you were in,
online groups that were arguing about that right so worth looking at both I don’t believe the churches is against government welfare programs I don’t think the churches and I think her main points try to say the church tried to Pretend We’re too self-reliant we’ve also embraced government programs,
I think it’s fine Embrace government programs we have resources available to us you can get into a political debate at political debate,
about the role the government should have in welfare fine but,
that’s not to say Latter Day Saints we should feel bad for embracing any of that stuff I mean the Church of a circle if there’s one thing that helps in a pinch,
but Church welfare is not going to like subsidized the birth of your child write like Medicaid exists because of the help program,
for people living below the poverty line it is a leg up,
as much help as the church. The church is more about paying rent paying some of your bills not giving you money for food first but send him to the Bishops Storehouse at the church isn’t in the second help subsidize like the hip surgery you have to have you.

[57:08] It’s a little bit apples and oranges there too cuz Medicaid’s are the different purpose welfare and Medicaid,
anyway give it a read let us know for stupid whatever you want if you stupid but I think it’s probably it’s probably Me chords.

Kurt:
[57:24] Why you get hate mail every time I’m on Jeff that that guy.

Geoff:
[57:27] I do not I do not I do not get hate mail for myself and only myself and I will own that completely.

Kurt:
[57:34] Nice Def.

Geoff:
[57:35] Well we’re already coming up on close to an hour currency exchange.

Kurt:
[57:37] Wow slow news week but we still figured it out likely we had a 30-minute discussion about the changing in her Church times so we did it.

Geoff:
[57:47] Another fun one Church growth has slowed in Utah did not want to talk about this one because he doesn’t like to face the truth.

Kurt:
[57:56] White why would that fact be a threat to me.

Geoff:
[58:02] You describe this as basically of course the Salt Lake Tribune is covering this because it’s perceived it’s perceived as negative I don’t see things as negative I just say this is a hear some hear some demographic data this of use to us,
the brother is seen this data they care about it.

Kurt:
[58:18] It’s true they Care events is decent.

Geoff:
[58:21] Because the Deseret News would never dare highlight anything that might shed the church in Utah in a negative or troubling light which isn’t lights on a diamond of the church just Dad I just like straight up,
there’s even a Slowdown of membership numbers in Utah in a drop in Salt Lake County it’s it that’s it.

Kurt:
[58:39] Because more more Gentiles want to move here Jeff cuz it’s so it’s that awesome.

Geoff:
[58:45] There is that the study suggests according to the article that also there has been a rise in the number of resignation.

Kurt:
[58:51] You see there it is Jeff there it is so.

Geoff:
[58:54] You believe is trying to push the resignation in angle.

Kurt:
[58:57] Here’s here’s the deal I mean God bless you and Tribune we we we hope the best for you but,
it’s always like it when the you know the news broke about the the
as far as the Whistleblower in the church sitting on a hundred billion dollars like to meet as like holy smokes like the church is really rocking at their succeeding they’re doing great obviously I understand the concerns of the whole story but
then it doesn’t become like well look at this great church I’ll successful it is it’s like a successful are we not so
I don’t think the reason that the numbers are Dippin is because of resignations obviously I think resignations have,
definitely gone up in for various reasons the last few years but anyways.

Geoff:
[59:47] So a couple of good data points ahead on so in Utah the church added just under five thousand members in 2019,
but Utah’s population grew by 53000 people so that’s a church growth rate of 1.25% to the Tribune said that’s the lowest since they have began to track the data Church rules grew by less than 10000 Utah was in 2018
want to go by 9000 Salt Lake is a bit of a different Beast kasal like being the most Urban parts of Utah also means,
is the least Latter Day Saints that’s just kind of the way things go cuz more like Curtis said Gentiles are moving in,
also to Lehigh I think Lehigh is going to be like no Mormon by the time they’re done all this text people.

Kurt:
[1:00:28] Yeah that would be that be intense.

Geoff:
[1:00:32] So didn’t you just to see the data could you see as far back is like 2013 40 plus thousand members added to the rolls in Utah,
so that’s a substantial contraction and then it still added right we’re still adding member it’s only Salt Lake so I declined but it’s good to know why this may be happening also members are moving,
people flocking to Salt Lake County particular are younger and less likely to be Latter Day Saints of course there’s no external migration coming in and members are dying,
and people are having fewer kids,
we joke about Utah you know being the Mormons in the building the kids but the rising generation is having fewer and fewer kids which is going to result in fewer people coming on the official roles when they turn it,
fertility rate affects things to never has been excommunicated but I don’t think that’s like a thing members blessed but not baptized that’s pretty interesting.

Kurt:
[1:01:28] Something’s going on there.

Geoff:
[1:01:31] I love this site data corroborated by Matt martinek who runs the Beloved he helps her to come over and out, which is a great resource and also the LDS church growth. Blogspot.com site that’s legit you and I interviewed him a couple of years.

Kurt:
[1:01:45] We did the interview which will never be her.

Geoff:
[1:01:48] The audio fell apart we never got to publish it so there we go it’s worth reading anything that always has valuable insights.

Kurt:
[1:01:55] Yes yes call Jesse wanted what else do we need to hear behind the scenes of the new youth video you don’t always need to be happy.

Geoff:
[1:02:07] You don’t always need to be all that you don’t always need to be happy as an older article turns out and president Nelson wants us to talk about,
the restoration 20/20 legit we’ve got the new that that first Vision podcast we got some cool AR stuff and present Nelson really wants us to focus on the.

Kurt:
[1:02:25] And a general conference like none other any anymore speculations now that we’re getting closer to April Jeff any any ID.

Geoff:
[1:02:31] Yes they will be holding it at Disneyland Paris.

Kurt:
[1:02:34] No Jeff I have heard rumors that their plans are is to hold it here in in Salt Lake as as normal so I don’t think it’s going to be a remote presentation.

Geoff:
[1:02:46] I thought you were to say like hold it here and you have been broadcasted worldwide like guys get you got it where do use the Internet it’s going to be amazing where does simulcast this thing.

Kurt:
[1:02:56] Yes yes.

Geoff:
[1:02:58] I’m still pulling for some kind of a conference in Kirtland or,
I don’t know we’ve established that have done, to adam-ondi-ahman before so that would not officially be unlike any other at least in terms of locale,
in terms of having a conference broadcast from there that would be a lot different set it happen before it but I don’t know something I don’t know.

Kurt:
[1:03:19] Awesome Jeff.

Geoff:
[1:03:20] So what about you you going to Indianapolis what’s going on with with Lee.

Kurt:
[1:03:23] I get a chance to have been invited to come out Indianapolis new a Fireside this this Sunday so if you’re in the.

Geoff:
[1:03:29] You on the CES.

Kurt:
[1:03:30] That’s right if you’re in the Indianapolis area is it I want to say new nice steak I am I’ll be there what’s up.

Geoff:
[1:03:40] Amy Muncy you mean Muncie.

Kurt:
[1:03:43] Don’t say yeah sorry I’ve never I’ve only read it I haven’t said it out loud so I apologize for my ignorance.

Geoff:
[1:03:49] So when you do this do they like put you up in a steak president’s house or something or.

Kurt:
[1:03:53] Matter of fact I will be typically not with the stake president but he was gracious enough to have a have a bedroom for me so.

Geoff:
[1:04:02] So you say tip is typically you’re just responsible for your own board.

Kurt:
[1:04:06] No typically I asked usually somebody else in the steak I just asked for a private room in a bath and,
can I roll with it and I’d state is pretty nice homes and they’re very kind and they keep me fed in,
I have you do my thing and I’ve noticed obviously in Utah were quite spoiled to the point that we’ve just sort of the band of the whole Fireside idea and maybe that’s the case worldwide but people are generally excited to have someone from out of town
come to town and and put put on the something so.

Geoff:
[1:04:36] Identifiers has it been abandoned I like Fireside like twice to go to the end of the YSA Fireside you’re going there cuz you’re trying to meet people but at the same time they get some good name some good speakers.

Kurt:
[1:04:47] Yeah I think you know when why I say your steaks are towards there,
yeah I think they keep those going cuz it’s good social aspect to a but I don’t know in a typical family Ward like I don’t it’s not nothing like the eighties and nineties where it was seemed like there was a monthly Fireside I don’t know what maybe I was a little bit too young.

Geoff:
[1:05:03] It should be you and you and Doug Kirby heyborne together.

Kurt:
[1:05:06] Oh yeah yeah he could play the guitar something and I could give a dramatic reading of something.

Geoff:
[1:05:13] Absolutely anything else going on with insane so we should be keeping away.

Kurt:
[1:05:17] Note that I said just love to have a good old Instagram follow if I’m sure you’re already subscribe to the podcast which you can subscribe to,
casspi dear but,
we’re getting ready to our next virtual Summit is meetings with Saints where we dive into the science of meetings and how to improve meetings in the church I’m sure you’ve experienced good and bad in your.

Geoff:
[1:05:38] Or you could just read president Ballard’s book so I got to do.

Kurt:
[1:05:41] Right right.

Geoff:
[1:05:43] Oh yes I expect plenty of good and bad and I have lots of opinions about this so maybe I will take part in the virtual self.

Kurt:
[1:05:47] Well if the doors open Jeff if you would like to to a present a session I will Reserve.

Geoff:
[1:05:52] Argentina present I’ll just say like look this what you do okay this is called a Google doc what you do
you put on useful information in there and y’all talk about it offline in the meeting you don’t deal with administrivia you don’t talk about it you don’t waste your time doing it if you’re doing it you’re wasting yours and everyone else’s time cuz you can make these decisions,
elsewhere and in different circumstances you don’t need to spend all of our Council planning the word activities for the year do it a different time talk about the people who need help talk about how to make,
have better worship C I give you a free.

Kurt:
[1:06:26] There it is there’s the whole that’s all we need.

Geoff:
[1:06:29] I was drifting into some kind of Bernie Sanders speech talk right there.

Kurt:
[1:06:32] Right. That’s what’s happening with us gif.

Geoff:
[1:06:38] To listen,
what’s the deal well when is your to talk to subscribe follow us on Facebook Instagram all that stuff you know we love it when you interact with us on social media current of course it over at leading Saints. I work,
and you can contact him in any way you see fit to use responsive and delightful and I’ll let you know what’s going on so until then next week,
I believe will be joined by Josie leave everybody so we get some more we’ll get some world news going on and see what else is going on the other side of the Pacific until then I’m Jeff this event this week in Mormons be well be holy and be happy.