EP 589 – Abortion and Latter-day Saints

TWiM_EP589_Latter-Day_Saints_Abortion_Roe_Overturned_Utah
With Roe v. Wade overturned, what will happen to abortion in Latter-day Saint-heavy areas? Also: How do we include "cultural" members?

With the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court to undo another landmark decision, many in the United States are left wondering what happens with abortion going forward. The issue affects Latter-day Saints of various walks of life and belief, and the Church’s official stance must be in consideration, as well. Liz Busby, of the Association of Mormon Letters and the Pop Culture on the Apricot Tree podcast, is with us to talk about the demise of Roe, as well as plenty of other news for the week. Buckle up.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hey, what’s up I said hello americans but we have an international audience. So hello anglophiles primarily although a weird con contention of you from foreign from non-english speaking countries listen to this podcast which is great. Welcome to this week of mormons glad to have you all here with us wherever you are in the world folks where this is we’re going to give you a nice rundown of. Relevant latter-day saint news for this week here at the end of June sliding into July lots of interesting stuff to cover this week as you might imagine if you’ve been paying attention to both national international news and if you’re even remotely tapped into the lds space. So I’m Jeff openensha your founder. It’s nice to be here and I’m joined once again by the indomitable. Buzzbee how you doing? How’s the how’s the pop culture on the apricot tree podcast going.

00:38.24
Liz Busby
I’m doing great Jeff thanks for having me on. Going really good. We released our episode on under the banner of heaven. So if you want to hear some commentary about how we would fix the show. Ah listen to that and then this week we have an episode coming out about Hamilton for the fourth of July talking about how we might use the. Historical perspectives of Hamilton to look at church history so it turned out really good I’m excited about it yeah it is

01:06.21
Geoff Openshaw
Um, ah that could be very interesting I’d never and I’ve never seen Hamilton on Broadway but like many I watched it when it popped on Disney plus two years ago that was a good experience. Our kids were being brats. So we just sent them to bed and because it’s so long right? And so we’re like all right.

01:19.12
Liz Busby
Oh yeah.

01:22.80
Geoff Openshaw
Like this is fine and someone they went to bed my wife and I were like dude, it’s like seven o’clock this is awesome like what should we do with our time this is our moment to invest in the 3 hours of Hamilton which was great. Amazing show I’ll be that’ll that’ll be that’ll be very interesting I’m assuming for under the banner of heaven. Um.

01:29.80
Liz Busby
Yeah, it was a good show. It’s such a good show So we have a great discussion on it.

01:41.30
Geoff Openshaw
Your main feedback was just to not do it was that your main idea. So.

01:43.34
Liz Busby
But no, actually so we had some suggestions for how to do it better? Um, we actually did have a couple points that we enjoyed about it and some good discussion going on. So it’s not just mormons complaining about under the banner of heaven for an hour though there is some of that.

01:59.30
Geoff Openshaw
There’s a little bit. Oh good. Ah that sounds that sounds excellent I’m gonna check those out. Well you’re you’re like what 9 episodes in podcasts are a fun project. You know.

02:00.71
Liz Busby
Little bit of that.

02:08.66
Liz Busby
Yeah I think this is our None episode is the Hamilton 1 our None I don’t know.

02:13.18
Geoff Openshaw
Hey I did I wanted to ask you. You guys did an episode on turning red which I finally watched over the over father’s day weekend or whatever we had some time I There was a lot of hoopla and like the and to say the family community but I saw a lot on social media. A lot of concern about the content of it that it.

02:17.86
Liz Busby
A.

02:33.30
Geoff Openshaw
Provoked rebelliousness that it had a lot of bad messages I didn’t really get that from it having seen it I understand how people pulled from that and what kind of how they saw that. But at the end of the day I thought it was actually pretty like innocuous. It was just teenage girls being teenage girls I didn’t think I was anything out of the ordinary I never I didn’t watch this and think like oh my goodness.

02:42.15
Liz Busby
Um.

02:47.97
Liz Busby
Are.

02:51.60
Geoff Openshaw
This is teaching my kids to disobey their parents I mean I thought that was a pretty normal trope from a lot of films. But what do I know? yeah.

02:53.50
Liz Busby
Um, yeah, it definitely is a theme in a lot of coming of age films I think a lot of us had a problem with. Like the ending is really good right? She’s still serving in her family temple and she has good relationship with her mom but we didn’t feel like that was earned through the story so that we had some problems with the storytelling in there and then just kind of I don’t think the implications were thought through all the way.

03:11.72
Geoff Openshaw
That might be fair.

03:23.22
Liz Busby
With the panda symbolizing different things at different points in the movie. It doesn’t it. It wasn’t as well put together as I expected from a Pixar. So.

03:25.27
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it kind of did yeah I did which apparently people will also sing about light year but I don’t think I’ll even bother seeing that. Um and also there was that little part at the end which said my Panda my choice that was a little like that was a little on the nose and I was like okay.

03:34.70
Liz Busby
Yeah, yeah, bit on the nose bit. Yeah.

03:43.34
Geoff Openshaw
It did ah it didn’t bug me but I was like okay um, speaking up bodies and choices everybody um a lot of things I guess we might as well. Why bury the top story until the end of the show. Ah as you might be aware in the United States last week the supreme court

03:47.80
Liz Busby
Yeah.

03:59.17
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, which is overseen by a none super conservative majority this decided to overturn the landmark 1973 decision of Roe V Wade Roe V Wade if you’re not familiar with it for some reason you might be international. Whatever it’s a constant. It was a landmark ruling that. Basically said you had a constitutional right to an abortion states could still regulate it but you could not be flat out told you could not have one states could not make abortion illegal and it sort of removed the overall the bigger states issue of whether or not abortions were available prior to that time. Many states had outlawed abortion entirely and women who’d wanted one for whatever reason like I don’t think we’re not going to debate necessarily all the merits or anything but sometimes they’d have to travel elsewhere. It also would often adversely affect ah minorities and and poorer people because they didn’t have the resources to go out of state imagine if you are.

04:35.28
Liz Busby
Now.

04:48.68
Geoff Openshaw
Lacking in resources and you live in Louisiana and like Texas and Oklahoma and Arkansas and Mississippi and all your neighboring states. Also don’t allow abortion. It’s it’s a significant undertaking just to go and and get None ah again regardless of the reasons. So. And overturning roe they sent it back to the states arguing that the abortion’s not mentioned in the constitution which that alone is a can of worms Alito about things that aren’t mentioned to the constitution. But um, it’s not there and so it should be a state’s issue and in some boys I agree with like sure let the states sort it out or let the federal government actually make a law and not lean on the course to do it. Okay, fine.

05:22.80
Liz Busby
For sure we I mean you can understand that perspective right? like maybe we should not legislate through the court. Let’s just make a law about it if people really want it. Let’s do that.

05:23.61
Geoff Openshaw
But it’s thrown the us. Yeah, so.

05:30.46
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, um, and there’s a lot of feelings of course very strong feelings on all sides many who are celebrating this whether it’s a states rights issue I think many who are erroneously celebrating this because they think it’s just made abortion illegal across the country and they don’t fully understand what roe actually did because they’re you know they’re celebrating life. But it’s throw the us into a little bit of turmoil for for sure. It’s kind of a lot going on right now in our country and I mean I don’t know about you Liz I mean I’ve I’ve evolved a lot on this I think I’ve always kind of aligned with the church’s view which I’ve always felt is pretty sensible personally that you know abortion you know life is sacred i.

05:50.76
Liz Busby
A bit a bit.

06:08.38
Geoff Openshaw
I Believe in that I think everyone should have a chance to life and I think the church’s stance that basically abortion can be considered in cases of rape incest endangment of the life of the mother or the child and should be done prayerfully the handbook stresses that it does not ever outright say no abortions end of story. Our church does not believe does not believe that. Um.

06:22.50
Liz Busby
Right.

06:27.63
Geoff Openshaw
And I’ve largely been been of that mindset I would say for the whole time kind of of course I’m a man and I recognize this is a thorny issue and as a man talking about it. But as a man I would often feel like well you know like consensual sexual activity does have risks associated with it and I and.

06:41.80
Liz Busby
For sure.

06:44.73
Geoff Openshaw
I I don’t want anyway to Ra me over the cols. But I I don’t necessarily think that as as Full-b Blown birth control just like I don’t want a kid right now I’ve never felt like that’s a legitimate excuse but with all that said where I’ve changed as I’m concerned about roe being overturning because I don’t think that’s like the solution to the issue for me Personally I think we’re always addressing the the supply.

06:59.42
Liz Busby
Yeah.

07:04.00
Geoff Openshaw
And we’re not addressing the demand and we’re not doing the things that would reduce the demand for abortion in the None place. So.

07:10.54
Liz Busby
I’m kind of with you on this Jeff like I think the church’s position is a good position that’s kind of where I land personally but I know a lot of very thoughtful people on both sides who would like to outright ban all abortions or who. Personally are opposed to abortion but think see the argument for making it legal and safe for those who think it’s okay, there’s lots of complex issues. Um, so I’ve been kind of just staying off of Twitter this weekend because it’s not a not a healthy and civil discourse which I would hope that we would get and.

07:42.55
Geoff Openshaw
Oh, which’s which’s Twitter quitting.

07:44.91
Liz Busby
Kind of the unfortunate thing about going. Yeah ah about this through overturning Roe versus wade. Yes, um, is that it’s it’s just exploded. Everybody’s feelings. It’s been really tough.

07:50.56
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

07:59.54
Liz Busby
I Feel like it was not ah a good way to have a discourse in any way.

08:01.71
Geoff Openshaw
The weirdest thing on my Facebook page compared to a lot of big political moments in the country and moral moments in our in our country surprisingly more subdued I felt like compared to other stuff like I feel like I’ve seen more activity about vaccines and all kinds of like election related you know conspiracy theories and I have jubilation.

08:16.50
Liz Busby
A hill.

08:21.59
Geoff Openshaw
About Roe which has been just intriguing to my my feeds I think reasonably balanced which perhaps I like to think says something about me that I’ve got I’ve got lunatics on the right and the left on my feed which is great which is great exactly. Um and I’m great at making people but people upset with me all the time.

08:29.44
Liz Busby
That they go right? If people are mad at you from both sides you must be doing something right.

08:39.65
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, but I’m with you I mean obviously social media is a difficult place. You’re not going to always have very thoughtful conversations. But what I have appreciated that you you know and you can’t do a loss up in short form but we we do need to come to an understanding that abortion is not like many issues a black and white clean cut issue abortion can mean a lot of different things I mean I found this story by an lds woman.

08:52.34
Liz Busby
Yeah, definitely.

08:59.49
Geoff Openshaw
On Instagram and she shared her story of having a sixteen week abortion sixteen weeks is a crucial nu a lot of states are going after Fifteen Week bans um and this was after sixteen weeks and also scheduling it just basically the doctors said it’s worse than we thought like the child had a lot of deformities. They said it’s not a matter of if it’s not not a matter of if like your child is going to die.

09:04.75
Liz Busby
His.

09:12.69
Liz Busby
Oh yeah I saw this one.

09:18.41
Geoff Openshaw
After the womb that the child will not survive after birth end of story I mean and so consulting with doctors in prayer. They said this is heartbreaking but this is the best course of action for the safe for her safety and and for the child. Um and now in this new situation in America potentially even in Utah we don’t know exactly but this could ah. This would mean this woman would not potentially be able to get None or I saw another story from a couple of years ago about an None ear old girl who was visiting with a doctor and she was not well and they were running a lot of tests and the doctor had a nagging feeling to check for pregnancy and so she’s like all right? Well check that we’ll check that too. The girl was pregnant. The girl was very subdued and whatnot.

09:49.71
Liz Busby
Oh.

09:56.71
Geoff Openshaw
Talk about what was going on and why like she was just very quiet wouldn’t open up and she kept saying Rerun the test rerun the test and this girl but this 11 year old girl was pregnant and she was pregnant because it turned out a member of her family had abused her and we should have a lot of concern that some of these trigger laws that we have seen. At least as it is right now we we think humanely it would never be this case. But if you read the text of some of them some of them only allow a carve out if it’s an endangerment of the life of the mother they say nothing of incest or rape and that concerns like that that is part of the church’s stance those sorts of laws concern me a lot because are you going to tell me you’d force an eleven year old girl to carry a pregnancy to term.

10:26.29
Liz Busby
Yeah, yeah.

10:32.98
Liz Busby
Yeah, so I think it’s so important to be really nuanced right? like to allow for people. There’s all sorts of circumstances and so I try to listen more than I talk about this subject that.

10:33.84
Geoff Openshaw
Um, after she was violated by a member of her family. Ah, we like to think no one that we think no one would do that. But yeah, like.

10:49.73
Liz Busby
There’s a lot of people have more stake in it than I do.

10:50.39
Geoff Openshaw
So ah, yeah, me too. I mean as one who you know most of my my my sexualization has been with purpose and of a family and such and thankfully that’s been the case for us. So I’ve tried to learn a bit a lot about this I’m still learning about this but like a lot of things. It’s ah troubling as far as. What we’re doing specifically within the church. Um, one thing I saw papa ostler good old Richard Osler whose brother I actually went and hung out with David last week had some good remarks anybody could share this but he basically said like there are members of our church with strong testimonies.

11:15.45
Liz Busby
Ah.

11:23.68
Geoff Openshaw
That are not happy about roev being wait overturned and I know people would see that and think like well what’s wrong with you. Don’t you love babies. They just said let’s be thoughtful about this and try to have thoughtful discussions and I really hope we can all do that while emotions are high and the church. No.

11:32.28
Liz Busby
Ah, yeah, you would hope we wouldn’t have to say this right that we would be kind to each other no matter what like no matter what the outcome of an election. There’s probably somebody in your congregation who’s upset about it. Hopefully you’d be kind about it and similarly with this.

11:50.85
Geoff Openshaw
Hopefully but here we are um in the process. The church though did update. It’s they released a very small press release on the newsroom that basically just said we’ve updated our passage on abortion in the within the church’s you know website and that’s all that said, if you go to the link you have to dig around a bit to see what they changed.

11:52.80
Liz Busby
Ah, here we are.

12:08.34
Geoff Openshaw
Most of the None parts vary exactly what it was. We believe in the sectity of human life. You know we oppose elective abortion or for social convenience or personal convenience. But here are the kind of the carve outs. We have talked about at the beginning of this show. But. What it used to say after that it said the church teaches its members that even these rare exceptions do not justify abortion automatically. Abortion is a most serious manner and should be considered only after the persons involved had consulted with their local church leaders I have some thoughts about that and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct. Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion. Um, so it’s interesting. They changed those None paragraphs to now say even these exceptions do not justify. Um, automatically justify abortion abortion is a serious matter. It should be considered with prayer that paragraph is mostly the same with some tweaking but then it changes the second one instead of just saying we don’t favor or oppose legislative stuff. It says the church’s position on this matter remains unchanged as states work to enact laws related to abortion. Church members may appropriately choose to participate in efforts to protect life. And to preserve religious liberty and I’ve seen a lot of people wondering what exactly they mean by that the last part right? there. What? what are church members appropriately participating in efforts around protecting life and preserving religious liberty like at this stage now that roe is gone. What are they saying about this.

13:26.17
Liz Busby
It seems to me like it’s just asserting that religious viewpoints have a place in the political discussion over this. There are a lot of people out there again on the twitters saying that you should leave your religious viewpoints out of it. Um, this is just a political matter which doesn’t make any sense like.

13:40.24
Geoff Openshaw
So I have seen a lot of that. Yeah.

13:45.63
Liz Busby
To me. So I think that’s what it’s asserting. But I’m not sure it is kind of opaque.

13:52.50
Geoff Openshaw
It’s just interesting to me because it’s almost like they would say hey like basically those who are we would assume in reading this they would saying that church members want to engage to protect life and and and have religious liberty that would assume at a None reading that it’s in the effort to make abortion rarer like but that’s.

14:07.20
Liz Busby
No.

14:09.63
Geoff Openshaw
But roe has now gone and so some have wondered like is this the church kind of trying to say that it is more nuanced like church members may appropriately choose to still like um, especially religious Liberty I mean people might be saying my religious liberty like this is the government Now you’ve seen some of this telling me they’ve.

14:24.51
Liz Busby
Yeah.

14:27.75
Geoff Openshaw
And some ways taken away my religious liberty like this is the government dictating Clearly what and what I can’t do ah as related to my body irrespective of what my my religious beliefs are I mean you were just saying you know this people who are saying don’t bring your religion into this. At the same time you could see it as an affront if if if this does go beyond your beliefs in some states and you could find yourself in a state now where the abortion laws might go beyond what our? what? Our our official beliefs are at least as a church level as latter-day saints regarding you know abortion and so that makes it tricky So I’m curious. The church is threading a difficult needle.

14:57.78
Liz Busby
It’s very tricky.

14:59.52
Geoff Openshaw
I find it interesting though they did say um states as states work to enact laws now in an international context state really means country. We’re called the United States because we were essentially 13 pseudo countries that became 1 country 1 country right? So yeah.

15:11.53
Liz Busby
Right? Federal system.

15:16.66
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s the idea behind states but it is weird language because usually we think to say as country. It’s just curious. They used a very specific language of states and that press release. So this is a global. Yeah yes.

15:22.60
Liz Busby
Well I think it ties to the yeah roe versus Wade kicking it back to the states now. So.

15:29.42
Geoff Openshaw
Which I agree but it’s you know we’re an international church. This is a press release that does not apply only to the United States this applies to all countries and so that’s why I found that I just think that’s curious language from a semantics standpoint question.

15:34.71
Liz Busby
This is true but speaking of state laws. So Utah has a trigger law that went into effect on Friday um, basically going along with the church’s position. No abortion except in cases of. Rape incest or the life of the mother or the child. Um, but late breaking yesterday. Um, ah planned parenthood of Utah got a temporary restraining order from the none district judge Andrew Stone um so there. For fourteen more days they’re allowed to continue providing abortion services in Utah while we figure out the situation I think the argument from what I read um was just that this was very sudden. It was going to put an unnecessary burden on people who already had procedures scheduled. So it’s kind of. Softening the transition I don’t think it’s doing anything to block that of law from eventually going into effect but it’s kind of slowing down the transition for people.

16:34.97
Geoff Openshaw
And.

16:40.51
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, and every trigger law is different. You know per country the very existence of Trigger loss just fascinates me the legislatures. Ah but bother. This is many of them have been on the books for you know decades and saying in the event roe is overturned. We’re ready to go like I don’t know I don’t know this flat out.

16:45.18
Liz Busby
It is kind of weird.

16:57.36
Geoff Openshaw
Are there other trigger laws in totally different subject areas like in the event the Supreme court acts in a certain way like this law will change I’m trying to think what those would be off the top of my head I don’t know exactly what that would be at least at the state level. But um, that’s just interesting that they’ve gone that you know if in the event Citizens United is overturned. Will we be.

17:03.71
Liz Busby
M.

17:16.90
Geoff Openshaw
Automatically ready for X Y Z I don’t know I don’t know.

17:19.49
Liz Busby
Let’s see oh I’m looking on Wikipedia looks like there are some for medicaid as well. There are 8 states that have laws that would trigger an end to participation in medicaid expansion if federal funding falls below a particular level. So.

17:23.33
Geoff Openshaw
I could okay.

17:32.92
Geoff Openshaw
Oh good. It’s like we should. We shouldn’t help people folks. You know those bootstraps need pulling We we don’t need come on.

17:35.86
Liz Busby
That’s interesting.

17:41.77
Liz Busby
Let’s just say no we can’t fund it on our own. So if the government’s not going to fund it. We’re going to stop doing it altogether forget it. This is not possible. Oh boy here.

17:44.68
Geoff Openshaw
Because I forget it? Forget oh boy? Well um, so anyways, folks, if you have any thoughts about the row issue. We’re happy to hear you comment on our Facebook page you can send us an email. You know what contacted this week in http://mormons.com obviously there’s the.

18:00.45
Liz Busby
Keep it civil people. So let’s not call people names.

18:04.57
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, and I think overall I’ve seen this but despite Twitter is terrible I’ve I’ve actually been surprised I feel like I’ve seen a little bit more reasonable discussion about this one this time around compared to how much emotions flare up on other issues. Maybe it’s just my feed. I feel like I haven’t seen as much like just angry mudslinging when instead like you know, like in the wake of like January sixth and all that kind of stuff. No, it was just like a disaster on social media just a complete mess I don’t know these are weird times. Um, well in between look.

18:24.45
Liz Busby
So.

18:32.43
Liz Busby
Yeah, speaking of January Sixth we ah we might as well get it all all the politics out of the way right now right? Um I thought this was gonna be the big political story over the week but not so much. Um.

18:39.15
Geoff Openshaw
Oh I wasn’t going to go there but do it do it. Do it. Do it sure. And relax.

18:51.21
Liz Busby
I believe it was Tuesday we had ah Arizona speaker of the house Rusty Bowers Testifying at the January Sixth hearings um and the big poll quote was him talking about how his belief in the constitution has inspired prevented him from. Participating in Donald Trump’s effort to overturn the legal election the results so that was kind of cool and there were lots of follow up stories in the national media like what what do latterday saints actually believe about the constitution. What does it mean to believe the constitution’s inspired. So that was interesting to see that discussion going on.

19:29.32
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, that was fun. There was one part. Um I’m not going to like. It’s not a bad deal I’m not going to no actually no I won’t even say it on the show never mind some of his verbiage and ones but and some parts were interesting I’ll just say if you’ve been temple and I thought some people pointed that out. Um, but.

19:40.12
Liz Busby
Um, for sure.

19:47.81
Geoff Openshaw
This has this is fascinating to watch people jump on this. You know Rusty Bowers is a hero Rusty Bowers it’s great look at this man look at this man standing up for what he believes in and yeah, good good none of all, for None thing I I guess he said we’re getting the politics out of the way I’ve seen this with other people who kind of stood up for the law during that that period. That we are we are revering them. That’s fine but to be clear. We’re revering people for not committing felonies like that’s what this. That’s what this comes down to. We are not yeah, a little a little normalized like I’m glad these that people acted in the way they did I think that’s important and i’m.

20:10.73
Liz Busby
Right? Unfortunately committing felonies has been ah much too common. But so.

20:26.29
Geoff Openshaw
I’m glad it wasn’t something else, but it’s also not like above and beyond. It’s just like you cool man I protected the rule of law. So the funny thing though in all of this people lauding Rusty Bowers is then afterwards he said something like yeah but I probably don’t vote for him in 2024 and I know this is more of a political thing.

20:40.31
Liz Busby
Yeah.

20:43.32
Geoff Openshaw
But a lot people say but didn’t you say your faith kind of prohibited you from from believing to I would love to interview him and say okay, it’s fine if your faith prohibited you from breaking the law and going along with all the elector stuff associated with the the election which part of your faith does not violated to. Bring that person back I’m just very interested in the thought process and somebody who has these sorts of Beliefs and I don’t think he’s alone in that either. So.

21:04.10
Liz Busby
Yeah, no for sure I think it’s it’s a difficult time if you’re a principled conservative to decide who to vote for it’s it’s primary finishes today.

21:16.99
Geoff Openshaw
Didn’t you didn’t you aren’t you guys causing or you just did your primary or isn’t it. Okay, so if you’re if you’re in Utah I know many people who are into this Becky Ed Becky Edwards is it Becky Edwards I’m in a lot of ca I don’t think Aie Ism’s gonna she does. She doesn’t seem to have but when.

21:23.32
Liz Busby
Today’s the day Becky Edwards indeed and Allie isome no but hopeful. we’ll we’ll see we’ll see what happens.

21:34.14
Geoff Openshaw
And her sales. Ah, you did have an article on here I think you can speak to this as well s the trib had an article about comparing what ah bows with Mike Lee who is up in his primary to return to the Us senate today.

21:46.89
Liz Busby
Yeah, yeah, um I saw this because ah the reporter Robert Gereke shared it on Twitter with kind of that the tag like oh Mike Lee this is what you were supposed to say like because we have the leaked. Um, text messages from Mike Lee asking Trump and affiliated people tell me what I’m supposed to say I’ll say anything and then we have the contrast with Rusty Bowers being like ah no very principled stand on believing the constitution is inspired so it’s interesting. Considering that they both come from our faith and therefore they both should think the constitution is inspired but it didn’t prevent Mike Lee from ah doing the things he did to research ways to overturn the election I don’t know if we can go so far as to say he actually. And acted any of those but he was definitely helping in the research process. So kind of interesting.

22:43.83
Geoff Openshaw
Know So we talk a lot about the you know the divine nature of the Us constitution all right? That’s that’s that’s essentially doctrine of our church is it the Us constitution. Yeah, so here’s something I haven’t thought a lot about especially given.

22:53.23
Liz Busby
I Mean it’s in the book of Mormons and doctrine covenants. So.

23:02.20
Geoff Openshaw
A lot of what’s gone on in the United States in recent years have you ever met anyone who’s had a faith crisis because they have come to the they struggle to see how the us constitution actually is divinely inspired does that make any sense like they could look at and be like no this system doesn’t work like it’s better somewhere else. And if and has that caused them to question their testimony and their relationship with the church. That’s a very that’s quite an esoteric area to be in I wonder about that you know.

23:27.71
Liz Busby
I don’t know that I’ve seen a faith crisis but I know I definitely know some people who feel a little uncomfortable with our idealized image of american history right? This is a part of what we talked about in in the Hamilton episode that’s coming up of pop culture on the apricot tree. Talking about an idealized version of history versus a more nuanced or looking at the problems. Um version of Us history and kind of the balance between those 2 and often the the discourse we hear about american history.

23:59.53
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

24:05.80
Liz Busby
In church is more on the hegeographic side of these guys are great. They’re basically almost prophets you know, um, which may be not helpful to some people who have been hurt by. Different things in Us history.

24:22.32
Geoff Openshaw
I Yeah and I would I would hate anyone to have a crisis. That’s what I guess like you said, maybe no one’s had a crisis but when it is like it’s It’s one of our it’s ah essentially a doctrine of the church and so this could be like a part of the church’s beliefs officially that you take issue with and that.

24:31.12
Liz Busby
No.

24:38.54
Geoff Openshaw
You know people have left the church over other things you know for this in the least in a similar a similar setup different subject but this is the church’s belief on this I don’t believe in this aspect of it and it’s causing me to to drift I’s wondering if anybody’s ever done that for the.

24:40.47
Liz Busby
For sure.

24:50.46
Liz Busby
And I think President Oakes’s recent talk on the constitution tried to make this a little more nuanced right? tried to bring out the you know we don’t believe that every word of it is perfect. There are changes that need to be made. There were compromises that maybe shouldn’t have been made.

24:55.68
Geoff Openshaw
You yeah.

25:07.79
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

25:08.63
Liz Busby
Different things like that that we can still believe it needs improvement. Um, even while we still think it’s inspired.

25:14.17
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, okay, we’ll do something a couple lighter things. But before we get anything weird folks the newsroom the newsroom from the church. Want to let you know that more None of the stakes in Europe are in which of these 3 countries and the great thing is if you saw it on Facebook because they shared the you know the hero image.

25:17.81
Liz Busby
More fun.

25:33.80
Geoff Openshaw
You would immediately see from the pie chart which 3 countries there were without even clicking because it shows it right there? Ah but it’s a fun you know I’m all about the Europe I’m a europhi for my mission in Europe love the place and struggles with religion in general but not a lot of excitement or activity. So it’s nice to give them some love.

25:35.28
Liz Busby
Um, yeah.

25:51.64
Geoff Openshaw
Probably shocking. No one. Ah, by far the lion’s share of stakes in Europe are in The United Kingdom which has 45 stakes um of those most are in England itself I would assume because I think Scotland still has None stakes Ireland has oh Ireland’s not the United Kingdom but ireland proper is like None steak I don’t even know if Belfast has its own stake in Northern Ireland it might ah. But yeah, the church has a lengthy history in the u k that makes sense.

26:12.54
Liz Busby
Yeah I guess that one but I did not guess the next 2 did you guess them.

26:17.25
Geoff Openshaw
I so I should know this better because I saw my mission in Spain I did not realize we’re up to finally up to None Spain had when I was on my mission Spain had like None um, so it’s grown a lot which is great I expected Germany to still be number 2 but I obviously they see their neck and neck Spain’s None Germany’s 14 I thought Germany was still going to have the edge but Spain’s had a lot of stakes largely due to south american immigration into the country and I don’t know if immigration immigrants are also driving the situation in Germany or not. It’s just you know it’s easier to imigrate to Spain when you already speak 95% of the language save some idioms and stuff like that right.

26:42.17
Liz Busby
Makes sense.

26:55.49
Geoff Openshaw
So ah, interesting stuff after that you got France has 10 sticks and ls None portugal only has 7 stakes but portugal is actually per capita much more densely lds than a lot of other countries europe yeah and and kind of similar for Switzerland as well and then they just combined a bunch of the rest the Nordic countries just you know so.

27:02.71
Liz Busby
Yeah I was gonna say it’s a small country to have 7 That’s awesome. Yeah. As if they’re all the same. Yeah.

27:15.31
Geoff Openshaw
Sweden but Sweden has four Finland has three denmark has two Norway has 2 then the bealluxe which they combine which I like they say benallux Netherlands as we well you should have spent time in the Kennedy Center be why you? ah benal luxe benalluxe here’s here’s a fun word. Folks is a portmanteau.

27:23.28
Liz Busby
I’m not familiar with that term. And I did not.

27:33.41
Geoff Openshaw
And I imagine you know what a portmanteau is Liz as a word for a portmanteau is a word that combines other words to make the the new words. So in this case Ben Net Lux is like Belium Netherlands and Luxembourg to create benneluxe. There’s no stake in Luxembourg so it doesn’t even get any representation and then there’s 8 stakeeaks.

27:33.43
Liz Busby
I do.

27:43.28
Liz Busby
Ah.

27:51.63
Geoff Openshaw
Where no other country has more than 2 like 8 other countries I’m sorry I’m sorry 8 other countries but none has more than 2 across 8 other countries which I would like to know what they are I mean like which are the other ones I mean Ukraine has like 2 stakes.

27:51.96
Liz Busby
Oh it’s 8 other countries. So.

28:07.84
Geoff Openshaw
And then it’s smaller ones like Hungary has 1 steak czech republic has 1 steak Albania has one steak I’m sure it’s just a bunch of those good times. Well excitement for Europe folks I don’t know when the newest stake will be organized in Spain but all all they need are 31 more steaks to overtake the Uk so I feel like this is in the bag.

28:23.22
Liz Busby
You can do it guys. Let’s go. Ah oh what else have we got here? Oh we have more about the Utah water situation. Um the church put out a thing through the newsroom encouraging people to conserve water.

28:27.34
Geoff Openshaw
This happened it’s going to be fun.

28:34.50
Geoff Openshaw
And.

28:42.65
Liz Busby
Framing it in terms of our responsibility to care for the earth um, and just talking about what the church has done to help conserve water. They said the church has installed waterwise irrigation systems and low flow plumbing in buildings since the early two thousand s and they’re continuing to retrofit. Older buildings and they say that they’re going to actually reduce watering of lawns at temples meeting houses and other buildings and in some cases they’re going to let the lawn go brown which is I applaud that there’s a lot of church lawn in Utah so if we stopped watering those quite as much it. And make a pretty good dent.

29:20.95
Geoff Openshaw
It it can make ah a very big down. It’s funny because this happened in 2015 as well. There was a lot of drought in the west and we talked about it on this show famously. They stopped watering the lawn at the Los Angeles California temple which if you’ve been there has this huge expansive sloping lawn that goes down to Santa Monica Boulevard and there’s images of it.

29:33.73
Liz Busby
Yeah.

29:40.17
Geoff Openshaw
Brown as they stopped, they still kept some like various planters and stuff water but they were trying to do their part and I think this is good like I applauded as well. I’m glad the church is being involved in these sorts of efforts I am curious though like not being in Utah or even in the west. It’s nice that I know they’ve been working on this plan to use more appropriate native landscaping and be more water-wise and newer meeting houses. But but it’s been an effort for like a long time. So I’m very curious Utah has a lot of meeting houses to retrofit right? Very densely church I get that.

30:00.28
Liz Busby
Yeah I think that’s interesting.

30:12.68
Geoff Openshaw
Just want to know like since 2015 since they’ve been doing this for so many years has it been consistent or is this still like considered a pilot program and they’re still putting up regular old meeting houses with regular old lawns in newer developed areas where if you guys if any of you live in an area like that.

30:24.49
Liz Busby
Yeah.

30:28.91
Geoff Openshaw
Would like to know about it because I feel like if we’re not going out of our way to be water consciousscious from the get-go as that’s like the priority are we being good stewards I mean the West has a major drought right now and even um in but.

30:40.45
Liz Busby
Even without the drought We just are overgrowing our water supply in general.

30:45.61
Geoff Openshaw
And it’s big time and so it’s funny because John Oliver this past week also talked about water and I’m only bringing this up because there are some illusions to to Utah talking about the whole situation in the west. How basically they’ve as much as said, this is how much water you need for the people. And just flat out there are too many people in the drier parts of the western United States like there is not a sustainable amount of water for those people and even to stop using the term drought and start using the term audation. Essentially it is a permanent shift to a more arid environment in much of the west and and like Utah’s growing a ton. Can it.

31:07.10
Liz Busby
Now.

31:21.53
Geoff Openshaw
Be sustained. Yeah I don’t know if I can and so the John Oliver ah reference it was a good piece overall by the way I thought I was actually really insightful as far as what we’re doing which which areas are being more responsible like apparently the Las Vegas area is actually very good with its water management and not like people have both down to you think it would be crazy because I mean. Vegas right? like all the pools and things. But I guess they do a pretty good job recycling it and decreasing their water use which is good. So at one point they shift to Utah after after lauding Nevada for the work they’re doing Utah’s the worst offender apparently in this sense they singled out st george. Which is covered in golf courses that use none of water to maintain and st george is even worse than other parts of Utah I mean it’s st george for it’s just flat out red rock desert out there. There is you know Ah you can like pump so much. No no, the virgin river is basically a trickle folks. It’s not a raging torrent from which you can borrow all the water you need. Um.

32:04.75
Liz Busby
Yeah, there’s no reason it should be green out there.

32:18.49
Geoff Openshaw
And he goes this thing and you’re in Utah is that with Spencer Cox the governor I guess this was last year right? It was like lots last summer that Spencer Cox appeared and implored utahs of all faiths to pray for more rain now from a latter day say as he was going into this I got.

32:21.64
Liz Busby
Last summer. Yeah.

32:35.49
Geoff Openshaw
Not uncomfortable, but from like a latter-day saint context like yeah, there’s plenty of times in our history and throughout the scriptures where you’re praying for the heavens to be opened up and and something to get better and I think that’s a good exercise from the perspective of an Hbo program. It was more just like are you kidding me? you’re just going to just going to pray for the water to come without. And he works per se like this is your solution Spencer Cox your solution is not a laundry list of policy items. We could do to address the drought. It is just let’s pray let’s pray brand. Yeah yeah.

33:00.20
Liz Busby
I mean I think it was taken a little out of context because it was part of a speech where he did talk about the programs they are using and encourage people to actually do something. It’s like a both and not a let’s pray instead of doing anything.

33:11.60
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so the thought that was kind of it was kind of funny and I was like oh well that’s that’s that’s nice and then at the end they had Brian Cox appear in a bit appearing as god and basically just like tearing into. Utah primarily basically saying like I have given you the water stop praying for more water figure out what to do with the water you can check it out. It’s on this week’s this week’s ah last week tonight so yeah like you said not totally fair, but kind of the second like Utah pops up on anything I just kind of get a little tense and say okay what are they going to do what are they going to say I’ve noticed.

33:41.14
Liz Busby
What are they gonna do now. Yeah.

33:44.59
Geoff Openshaw
They never said they never said um I don’t think they ever said they didn’t say mormons outright but that when they made fun of Cox John alvers just like he’s like those of you those of you who are not members of the 1 true faith, please pray with us as well. Even though you do not believe in the true and the true lord to Jesus please.

33:59.59
Liz Busby
Oh dear.

34:03.34
Geoff Openshaw
Anyway, so if you’re offended by that kind of stuff. Don’t watch it. But if you want to watch it. It’s least insightful about the water situation. But I do hope we’ll do more as a church like we got to be real about this Utah like it’s not. It’s you’re on the edge of the great basin. It’s not time to have green lawns everywhere. That’s just not what we should be doing.

34:11.77
Liz Busby
Yeah.

34:20.29
Liz Busby
All right? Well I’m going to pull in this is maybe more esoteric ah literary people news. But um, the association for mormon letters awards finalists were announced this week in a bunch of different categories. So I don’t know how much you follow.

34:32.34
Geoff Openshaw
La.

34:40.64
Liz Busby
Mormon ah literature Jeff have you read anything since the work and the glory. Ah no drops off after there.

34:44.90
Geoff Openshaw
I mean after tennis shoes. Yeah after after tennis shoes have known London is not a very good author. Um after tennis shoes after tennis shoes among the nephites like you can’t there’s nowhere word even go from there just Charlie Charlie on that. That’s all I’ve got.

34:58.73
Liz Busby
Okay, there you go? Well if for the there you go? Yes, that is definitely what was being sold then anyway so they have ah words out for the different categories. You’d expect novels short fiction.

35:02.53
Geoff Openshaw
I worked at desra book in 2005 can you tell this is what? yes.

35:18.30
Liz Busby
Um, one thing that’s interesting in novels and short fiction. They actually did bilingual awards this year so they had judges who could read in spanish and as well as english and there’s actually a pretty thriving community of Lds writers in spanish so a couple of the nominees are in spanish there’s translations available in english. So.

35:23.94
Geoff Openshaw
That’s awesome. Thanks.

35:37.84
Liz Busby
Very interesting. Um and then they had there are some more obscure categories that I think people will be interested in. There’s film There’s also a podcast award. This is their second year doing the podcast awards um, comics and graphic novels are in there and they have a lyric award There are a couple different. Albums with ah mormon content that they’ve been doing um, not yeah, ey albums we’re talking. Ah the killers album a couple other albums on that list. So.

36:07.30
Geoff Openshaw
Well I mean the most recent killers album does have. It’s hard not to see Lds tie-ins for sure on pressure machine.

36:11.30
Liz Busby
Yeah, and oh certainly so encourage people to take a look at those lists. It’s interesting to see the variety of things that are coming out. Um, one of my favorites. That got nominated both in the young adult category and in the comics category is Shannon Hale’s graphic novel Memoir have you seen these? Um, it’s it’s from a national press and so it’s not quite mormon.

36:36.11
Geoff Openshaw
No, no tell me more.

36:44.72
Liz Busby
But she prays a lot in them and she fought, really hard to not have the religious elements scrubbed out of them. Um I think the first one is called real friends and then best friends and the volume that came out this year is called friends forever and it’s basically the experiences of a young Shannon Hale um

36:52.86
Geoff Openshaw
Huh.

37:03.63
Liz Busby
In Middle school ah dealing with middle school things. But you know she she prays about things she goes to church. So it’s interesting to see that come out from a national press. Um, and I hear they’re really good. My kids have all loved them. So I haven’t gotten a chance to read them. But my kids really.

37:13.42
Geoff Openshaw
Friends Forever Sorry I think of all right I’ll just check these out. My kid does not um, my oldest. My oldest kid loves to read but he like never does fiction.

37:23.34
Liz Busby
Enjoy them. So yeah.

37:31.74
Geoff Openshaw
Goes to the library and just finds all this like reference and nonfiction materials and spends all his time just like reading through it like Encyclopedias He’s got a book about National Park right? Yeah yeah, I’m hoping the other ones is they get to be better. Readers might be um, more on the inventive side. My other kids spends all day making up rhymes and songs. So you know we’ll see.

37:35.85
Liz Busby
I Have a couple like that I have a couple like that.

37:48.80
Liz Busby
Graphic Novels can be a good transition. Sometimes they have a harder time reading fiction if it’s dense but Graphic Novels can be a transition into fiction that way. So.

37:53.73
Geoff Openshaw
Um, yeah. I like it. Okay folks. Well my my goodness there’s so many things I could touch upon here so many interesting stories I will get on Matthew Bowman here kind of interesting here. He talked about.

38:04.54
Liz Busby
Yeah.

38:11.26
Geoff Openshaw
Why religion is more than a belief Matthew Bowman is the I believe he’s the chair at the Claremont colleges for latter-day saint studies I might be getting that hes yeah the howard w hunter chair. So the gist of this piece is essentially trying to look at a bit of the history between.

38:16.95
Liz Busby
Um, yeah.

38:28.25
Geoff Openshaw
None protestants and catholics how way back when during during the reformation a lot of protestants took issue with catholicism was so right based sacrament-based incense. It was a all about the ritual protestants felt like catholicism didn’t focus enough on belief and so some. Process have gone totally the other way or strictly about belief and has nothing to do with works or or ordinances or anything like that. Um, and I think we’re a little bit of both in our church but he kind of wants wants to defend cultural mormonism as he calls it basically people who might not believe in every other thing or maybe even observe every right or practice. But they identify as latter-day saints and they want to be a part of it and that’s not necessarily a bad thing like I but I saw one of his quotes here. It was kind of interesting. He said like we hold grad and he took this kind of like the value the importance of. Participation. Regardless, ah, it’s like we said we hold graduation ceremonies in birthday parties because we aren’t brains and bottles. We could easily just say hey you graduated hey it’s your birthday and like who cares? No we have a celebration for it. We are bodies that that want to stretch and move under the sun getting a diploma in the mail hardly means as much as striding across a stage in a robe among hundreds of people to celebrate you. We learn through motion and community as much as we do through words we grow not simply by repeating slogans but also by standing up walking over to another person and shaking hands hugging looking at each other’s Eyes Church has value no matter where you’re at and letting people who aren’t. At the same place you are but be involved is valuable to everyone involved and so I thought this was a pretty interesting piece I like this this perspective. It’s pretty short too. It wasn’t this crazy long thing. But um, it’s a good reminder.

40:01.20
Liz Busby
Yeah I like the idea of making a place for people who are not at the place where they believe everything but still see the value in the community and not having this strong dividing line that if if you don’t believe don’t bother showing up at church.

40:18.37
Geoff Openshaw
And we get and we unfortunately yeah, that’s absolutely a thing and we really do I mean I worry a lot about how much we inadvertently push people away I feel like it’s like best way I could sum this up.

40:20.20
Liz Busby
Um, we need we need to help make space for people who are doubting.

40:36.10
Geoff Openshaw
It seems to me. We often lean on especially more I hate say progressive members but they’ve historically been some of those on the outs. You know the past few years notwithstanding with farther right? members suddenly finding themselves like they don’t have a place but we often lean on them to say look you got to understand so and so didn’ it like mean this the way they said it so and so were did something insensitively. Um, we got to give everyone we off to give each other a little bit of space. But I feel like we lean on some of the those with the minority viewpoint to say like just you know, kind of let it go and we don’t lean on everyone else the majority to say like hey like make space for these people too. It’s like the ones who are already in the minority are the ones who often.

41:13.90
Liz Busby
Have to put it in the work.

41:14.38
Geoff Openshaw
Also have to bear the brunt of of needing to put in the work and stretch and put up with everybody else and that that is a recipe for problem as time goes on and your ward dynamic is going to suffer in the process for sure.

41:24.72
Liz Busby
Yeah, it definitely builds up resentment and makes the whole community aspect harder. It makes it harder to feel loved when you feel like every week at church somebody’s insulting your your lack of belief or your different beliefs about the church. Ah.

41:42.19
Geoff Openshaw
Because you um.

41:44.17
Liz Busby
Definitely important to be a little more sensitive and kind of defend Those who don’t don’t have maybe an orthodox testimony.

41:51.83
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and it’s a fine line I mean like I’m I’m in a leadership position and 1 thing they talk about a lot is that we you know we have a responsibility to teach ensure correct doctrine is taught if we can say it with the passive voice. They always use and but um, that’s an important thing and I believe in that.

42:05.40
Liz Busby
Ah.

42:10.44
Liz Busby
Um.

42:11.41
Geoff Openshaw
But we also have to recognize that we can’t be so dogmatic that we don’t leave like room for everybody else to have different beliefs and recognize those different viewpoints and and realize that sometimes those viewpoints can completely function within an ah ah doctrinally appropriate space like we get so locked in culturally that we forget that there can be room for. You know the more than one and I know I’m preaching to the choir here with you Liz. But yeah.

42:28.40
Liz Busby
Yeah, well and also that people’s beliefs will change over time right? What happens if you push someone out because they don’t believe today the way you think they should and you know in 3 years maybe that’s going to change so make a space for them while they’re still working on that.

42:35.80
Geoff Openshaw
No.

42:43.75
Geoff Openshaw
Also a very good point So be better. Everyone open up space for all the good people. All the love. Yeah.

42:48.83
Liz Busby
Good stuff all right? Well where do we go next? Um, should we borrow from the twin sisters and talk about Mormons behaving badly or rather media about Mormons behaving. Badly.

43:01.92
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, please hit me. Let’s do it.

43:05.11
Liz Busby
Oh dear so our our good friends hulu having finished under the banner of heaven now have a documentary special from Abc called mormon no more it is about. A pair of Lesbian Mormons who leave their faith because there is no space for their marriage. So interesting hulu hulu.

43:26.33
Geoff Openshaw
that’s that’s I’ve heard I’ve heard it’s interesting. It’s just like why are we in this like backwards mormon moment now where ten years ago it was the mormon moment with Mitt Romney and now it’s like everyone’s obsessed with weird docu series that make us look iffy. We’re in a curious place.

43:39.11
Liz Busby
Yeah, yeah, and so in addition to that series coming out. There’s also a book called when the Moon Moon turns to blood coming out which is about um. The Chad daybel Laurie Valo case so you know just just good mormon moments in the media right now we’re just we’re looking real good.

43:55.70
Geoff Openshaw
Oh good, Oh good. Oh I hate to sound so defensive but like folks where is the where is the series calvinist. No more.

44:11.60
Liz Busby
Where’s yeah.

44:14.13
Geoff Openshaw
Where is Catholic no more where are these other things like I know we we’re just we’re mystical and intriguing. But and I get it like yeah you know it’s like we’re not to be clear. We’re not the only faith where it can be difficult to be lgbtq. We have ah we have plenty of issues I’m not diminishing him by any stretch of the imagination. But.

44:16.18
Liz Busby
Um, yeah.

44:32.80
Liz Busby
Um, yeah.

44:33.54
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, you know it’s it’s not easy for plenty in many faith areas and there’s a much bigger discussion to be had rather than you know going out of your way to put a picture of the San Diego temple up and you know drive that point home I got married there hulu come on I’d cancel my subscription except commercial free hulu is the greatest gift you can ever give yourself.

44:44.59
Liz Busby
Come On. Ah. It is great.

44:52.87
Geoff Openshaw
It’s the thing you when you have regular hulu and then decide to pay the extra six bucks a month so you have no ads you don’t know what you’ve been missing in your life truly truly. That’s fun stuff. Okay, well really good here’s some more frivolity for all of you everybody so ah, Garth Brooks and his wife Tricia Yearwood None of all sidebar.

44:58.17
Liz Busby
Indeed.

45:12.42
Geoff Openshaw
Good for them for still being married so many celebrity couples and especially musicians don’t go the distance they seem to be legit because they’ve been married for a very long time. So upfront I want to tell everyone I’m not a country music person and I’m I’m going to speak with a lot of ignorance about this entire area I know I know. I’m obviously aware of Garth Brooks and you know I’m I’m not stupid and out of it completely but but I’ve I’ve heard his name is isn’t he the guy who always wears a headset Mike and never ever stands in front of ah of an actual boomsand that’s the guy right? Yes, it is so Garth Brooks has been you know touring I always liked his. Um.

45:31.16
Liz Busby
I recognize his name I’ve heard that name on on the radio.

45:47.66
Geoff Openshaw
Was his Alarrico called Chris Gaines remember that when he put out like an look. It was like twenty years ago or more garthb brookooks put out what basically like an alternative album and he did on a pseudonym of Chris Gaines totally different kind of music and he wore I think he wore a wig that was all like moppy. He looked like ah.

45:48.68
Liz Busby
Have no idea.

45:58.41
Liz Busby
Huh.

46:05.21
Liz Busby
Um, oh that’s hilarious. Don’t want to alienate your country audience with this alternative stuff.

46:05.70
Geoff Openshaw
He looked like emo Peter Parker in Spiderman three like that kind of a thing checked out out folks. It’s kind of interesting anyway. Yeah. Pretty much so he played a show at ricecycl stadium the other week in Salt Lake City and you know good times I said it was a good river played all of its hits and blah blah blah and I believe it was when Tricia came out to join him if I’m not mistaken if I’m not reading it incorrectly and she essentially there were they were basically lot just. Loving the audience saying that’s never been this good before what an amazing audience I don’t want to be cynical folks but this is part of the show. They tell every audience they’re the most amazing audience they’ve ever seen. You need to understand the way the way concerts work.

46:42.89
Liz Busby
Not sincere in their praise.

46:46.86
Geoff Openshaw
He’s like this is like throwing gasoline on a fire. They were just loving it and then finally when Trisha was out there I believe she said something like regarding this event. These people said this is the place and that of course made everyone lose their minds because of course everyone starts thinking they get us. They get us this. There’s no way that was.

46:56.28
Liz Busby
Of course.

47:03.45
Geoff Openshaw
Was not intentional. She knew exactly what she was saying. Um, she’s probably just thinking like well yeah, this is the place Park is kind of up the street and we saw it you know on our way in and we know it’s the thing so everyone got.

47:07.95
Liz Busby
Um.

47:14.20
Liz Busby
That’s that’s an interesting question is how did she come up with that phrase like someone advising her about how to play to the mormon audience in Utah I don’t know interesting.

47:21.10
Geoff Openshaw
Well I do so I do know this Garth Brooks echoed the statement and it says in the des right? News piece Brooks who has been vocal about his love for Utah so perhaps the the Brooks yearwoods are more familiar with Utah than a simple pit stop on a tour and they know the stuff. But.

47:35.10
Liz Busby
Maybe.

47:39.98
Geoff Openshaw
I mean if that’s not audience pandering. What is im that’s beautiful. You know it’s it’s like when you go to count when people play sets in California and they say like this really is golden and the whole state just loses their minds. That’s what happens right? and they go to Arizona and say no one should live here and everyone also cheers along. It’s great. Yeah.

47:43.31
Liz Busby
That’s pretty great.

47:48.60
Liz Busby
So yeah.

47:54.58
Liz Busby
Yeah yep, ah well all I know is that in my ward. There were like 2 or 3 people trying to sell their tickets to the concert at the last minute. So apparently it’s popular where I am although there was some kind of conflict so people couldn’t make it. But.

48:06.49
Geoff Openshaw
They didn’t want to I can’t believe they didn’t play stadium of fire come on guys is there a more noble tradition stadium of fire I was even I did I had to do a couple extra classes. So I spent my.

48:13.13
Liz Busby
Ah, okay, oh stadium of fire.

48:25.43
Geoff Openshaw
I graduated from bu in August because I was doing a couple courseworks so I was there for the fourth one year I I was just like okay I watched the provot parade and then I avoided the stadium like anything I could in my life that evening that was the play.

48:35.67
Liz Busby
You know where the best place to watch stadium of fire for free is on the Hill Now the Hill behind the temple go camp out up there. Great view of the fireworks and you can get out quickly.

48:39.49
Geoff Openshaw
Your house. Oh yes, yes.

48:49.38
Geoff Openshaw
And the temples right there even though it will soon will soon not be what it once was lest we forget folks Provo Temple soon to be our ip instead. Yes, pour out some dirty soda for the provo temple. Um.

48:52.33
Liz Busby
And the temple’s right there So there you go. Pour one out for the provo temple indeed exactly what else.

49:08.16
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, some some quick sadness here a missionary in Mexico passed away last week this is some sad news. So his according to church spokesman sam penra this one’s just coming from Lds living but elder Francisco Rene la madrid who was actually a. Mexico he’s in Mexico City yeah it was a biking accident so he died from multiple injuries while going down to steep hill due to slippery conditions. So that’s that’s terrible news and our heart goes out. He was a member of the Mexico it’s it’s Zena stake and had been serving there since March 2021 in the Mexico City east mission

49:31.11
Liz Busby
Yeah.

49:43.19
Liz Busby
Yeah.

49:43.41
Geoff Openshaw
Always terrible when this happens to anybody Missionaries die from all sorts of things I feel you know sometimes it’s health related Sometimes it’s like this’s terrible. So heart squats of the family.

49:52.22
Liz Busby
Okay, here’s another interesting one I believe this one’s from our friend Janna Reese talking about our mormon sabotaging marriage and family I know very much but despite the ah.

50:03.16
Geoff Openshaw
What a headline Yellow Journalism The finest I Love it.

50:11.10
Liz Busby
The crazy Headline The Clickbait headline. Um I think she’s actually got a good point in here. She’s talking about the common cultural practice or joke of telling missionaries that like the better they are on their mission. The hotter. Their wife is going to be and ah Missionaries thinking that they’ve. They’ve earned a really really good looking woman for their wife because they had such a good mission. Um, and just talking about how it’s objectifying of women. Yeah, Oh yeah, do they tell this to to the sister missionaries that they’ll get a hot husband if they go.

50:37.62
Geoff Openshaw
Yep, that’s all the matter. That’s all that it’s all that matters. No no you you marry hot Liz everyone knows this this all that this is all that matters. That’s all it did.

50:50.13
Liz Busby
Mission is this a thing I don’t think this is a thing ah dab. It’s a thing Anyway, yeah there you go Anyway, she has a great point. Let’s stop that like it’s just gross guys. It’s not no.

50:51.25
Geoff Openshaw
I doubt it’s a thing. Maybe they tell them maybe they tell them though that he’ll make 6 figures like the later part of the article.

51:07.20
Geoff Openshaw
And it might be that no then this might be apocryphal like I don’t know I’m trying to think if I ever really really saw that I might have heard somebody say that in more of a tongue and cheek rolling eyes sort of way. Um I remember not.

51:08.81
Liz Busby
No woman wants to be a prize.

51:16.56
Liz Busby
I Think it’s more of a joke. Yeah, but still.

51:22.59
Geoff Openshaw
I never was and it’s almost like prosperity gospel in a way like you’re thinking like you served really well Ericgo. You’ll be rewarded with worldly treasures in this case, a beautiful woman. Um I remember when I was going home right when I was like done my mission president did the the final interview is so different from the others because it’s very much reflective on what you’ve done and not. And then looking forward, but it’s very little about like how’s the work going in your area. You don’t talk about that hardly at all. Ah, and so None thing you said is like look I’m not going to like lecture you much on. Ah, what kind of a woman to find and and just and who that should be and how soon that should be like you know, don’t waste your time you know, get married at the right time and find the right woman. He’s like I will only say this to you. Said make sure when she so presses herself up next to you when she stands up next to you. The hair is on the back of your neck stand up that was his only guidance to me. He didn’t say like you’re rewarded with the hot wife but he was like make sure you basically get the heap of jeies when you’re around her and so that’s what I went for and that’s what I yes, that’s what I got with my wife so that’s fine.

52:15.20
Liz Busby
There you go.

52:18.71
Geoff Openshaw
I do think 1 thing other thing in this article you talked about the missionary side of it. She also spoke about what’s apparently happened in some young women’s courses and I don’t know how many have seen this but this whole candy bar analogy thing I don’t know if you and so.

52:27.59
Liz Busby
Oh yeah, I’ve not heard of this but I don’t like it.

52:34.70
Geoff Openshaw
So The idea of course is that the candy bars with their various names would represent certain qualities in a spouse. It’s a young women’s lesson on a future husband also pause everybody I Just want to recognize that young women do a lot of lessons about husbands. Young men. Don’t do a lot of lessons about wives and they probably should.. It’s never like what should you look for in your future. What it’s more about like how to be a good a good husband and father. But and you don’t have lessons like this like qualities to look for in your in your future Husband. Um.

52:49.86
Liz Busby
They should ah they should do more lessons on like child care too.

53:05.59
Geoff Openshaw
So the idea is they show example like a snickers bar is problematic because it could mean the guy snickers and makes sarcastic comments at church and then of course there’s the 100 grand bar you should look for the man who can make a you know 6 figure salary and all I don’t know. Um, there’s a lot of different candy bars I don’t know how you make metaphors out of all of them.

53:06.10
Liz Busby
Um, yeah.

53:19.33
Liz Busby
Of.

53:24.63
Geoff Openshaw
I mean like what do you say about what youmacall it not sure that’s the whole point what you mcll it or the bueno or almond joy. Almond joy is obvious. It’s too. Ah, it’s to be you no almon joy is to be avoided. That’s all it means about the person it is to be avoided because coconuts is stupid. So.

53:30.42
Liz Busby
Not very smart I don’t know like can’t remember anything.

53:41.98
Geoff Openshaw
If This is real I’ve never seen this happen but I do not put it beyond us to actually do something like this folks. So don’t don’t do this candy bar thing if you see it in your ward tattletail and make it stop and this now good article I agree with you though. I Feel like the headline barely even matches this article. It’s one of the more sensationalist headline to use.

53:59.45
Liz Busby
It’s it’s difficult teaching these lessons because it is important to teach kids to think about it to think about who you want to marry but doing it in a way that’s not problematic. Yeah or objectifying either direction.

54:10.16
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely oh goodness what else can we run into here real quick. Well you put this one up here. But ah Bigfoot.

54:18.67
Liz Busby
All right.

54:25.99
Liz Busby
Just a quick mention Bigfoot.

54:28.85
Geoff Openshaw
You like Bigfoot into Bigfoot yeah, um, sask oh the.

54:32.92
Liz Busby
I mean I we we lived in Seattle for 12 years so Sasquatch is big there.

54:40.47
Geoff Openshaw
I think we’re a little bit delayed on our audio right now. Let me see yep. Okay, so ah, the headline Sask watching. Thank you desperate news editors.

54:43.98
Liz Busby
Um, we are.

54:59.13
Geoff Openshaw
For that one anyway. Ah there’s a guy in Eastern Idaho or Iho State University who’s trying to hunt down sasquatch and of course folks, that’s all good. He wants to find Sas watchtch but the bigger question of course is you know is cain from the bible Bigfoot. This is an important part of who we are as latter day saints is Cain Bigfoot um he won’t go on the record and say whether it is or not That’s all there is about this I don’t know about Kain is Cain Bigfoot buzzbeed what do you think.

55:20.43
Liz Busby
Oh.

55:28.22
Liz Busby
He he he says in here. He says probably not given ah the lifespan that he assumes for Bigfoot so that is very interesting. It’s it’s just interesting to see him take this scientific approach.

55:40.28
Geoff Openshaw
The life. But.

55:46.53
Liz Busby
He says it’s a biological species. Not some paranormal phenomenon us just fun. Super interesting. Of course there you go.

55:51.49
Geoff Openshaw
No, it’s Kane we all know this folks, it’s Ka it is yeah okay, well you know folks if you believe in Bigfoot I watch Harry and the hendersons at least quarterly so check it out. Be good.

56:06.48
Liz Busby
There you go? Okay I’m going to throw in. There is a new database. Um I think this is kind of an independent project coming out of Oakland Berkeley area um it’s

56:08.65
Geoff Openshaw
Um, we got a couple more items that we can call today. What do you got there.

56:24.70
Liz Busby
Ah, database called represent Lds and it is a database of conference talks by women and bi bipoc members of the church indexed by scriptural reference. So you’re given a talk. You’re talking about alma you can look up.

56:32.92
Geoff Openshaw
Um.

56:41.27
Liz Busby
Um, a talk by a female leader or by a bipoc member of the church and use that quote in your talk Um, just kind of trying to promote better representation and awareness of views from those who don’t get quoted as often. So. It’s a fun site. Um could be a good resource represent Http://lds.com is the address if you want to take a look.

57:07.10
Geoff Openshaw
I mean folks if I love what they’re doing to be clear. But if you’re making a new property this day and age you can’t just say lds winny ninny I I don’t know folks that represent should be represent church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints Dot Com but I love this effort. This is awesome. What a great what a great resource

57:26.74
Liz Busby
Great stuff and then I was just going to throw on a little kind of a self promo. Another great literary. Um mormon thing out. There is a little contest called the mormon lit blitz. Ah, it’s kind of a flash fiction poetry contest. All the entries are under a none words nice and short. You can read them in like 5 minutes um contest has been going on for None ears They just wrapped up their um eleventh contests which is pretty cool. Um, and they’re. Putting out an anthology. It’s on kickstarter right now of their second five years of stories. Um, one of my stories is in there. Um, so encourage you to get on kickstarter and check that out if you’re interested all the stories.

58:11.55
Geoff Openshaw
Nice.

58:15.15
Liz Busby
If you don’t want to back the Kickstarter All the stories are available for free online so you can check out what you’re getting before you commit. So.

58:23.60
Geoff Openshaw
Well, speaking of other places where you can offer up money. Ah, even though you’ll still get the product without it. You know if you want to join us on http://patreonpatreon.com/ this weekend mormons we appreciate your support on there to help us pay our numerous and mounting bills folks. This is not There’s a lot of resources go into this whole production as you well know listening to it right now. But thanks for joining us this week we hope you’ll find us everywhere on social media and our website and all that stuff if you have any feedback contacted this week in http://mormons.com or comment on this post on Facebook or Twitter always much appreciated and we encourage you to go to. Http://popculttureapprootre.com or look for pop culture on the apricot tree wherever you get podcasts and support what Liz is doing over there I’m excited for the couple of episodes you’ve mentioned that are going to be in the work so those will be very interesting. Good times. Liz it’s wonderful to have you thanks so much for your time as a week now. It’s been great.

59:06.55
Liz Busby
For sure. Thanks for inviting me on again. I appreciate that.

59:16.88
Geoff Openshaw
Well for Liz I’m Jeff thanks for listening to twin folks and we hope you have a terrific week. Keep your chin up and for our american listeners have a good fourth of July we won’t talk to you until ah and once that’s a little more in the past. So enjoy that stadium of fire provo we’ll talk to you soon. See you later bye bye.

 

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