EP 428 – If Only Joseph Had Grammarly

Six months in, how is two-hour church and "Come, Follow Me" working out for you?

[dropcap]F[/dropcap]resh off his interview with none other than Microsoft founder and benefactor of the eponymous foundation, Bill Gates, nice guy and our resident socialist, Devin Thorpe, joins us for another round of exciting Latter-day Saint news!

The Church Newsroom does not understand how Disney works, which is shocking for a facility likely populated with Disney devotees. Why is that, you ask? Well, on last week’s show you heard about President Nelson holding a gathering at the appropriately designated Amway Center in Orlando, Florida. However, the Newsroom’s coverage makes a reference to the Latter-day leader speaking at “The Happiest Place on Earth.” What’s the problem with the obvious Disney reference, you ask? “The Happiest Place on Earth” refers to Disneyland in California. Disney World has the nickname of “The Most Magical Place on Earth.” Get your facts straight, Newsroom! How are you to be trusted when you commit gaffes of this magnitude?

Manti, Utah’s Mormon Miracle Pageant is winding down after over 50 years of inspiration and cheap costumes. Why has the Church pulled the plug on its famous pageants? Who’s up for a TWiM visit to Hill Cumorah next summer? Manti already has the best temple in the Church that hopefully will retain its charm and peculiarities following a major renovation.

Alright, so we know we’ve spoken at length about the so-called “LDS Millionaire,” but this stupid event keeps being stupider, and it shows the worst in us. How is it that 2,500 women have been so reduced and trivialized that they think this is their ticket to love, or at least a fun event? KSL managed to speak with a few of the attendees, who went into detail without violating their non-disclosure agreements. Nothing groundbreaking here, but honestly, the whole affair is just sad. Also, having a net worth of $1 million, while nothing trivial, is not the incredible milestone it once was. Do you own a house in an expensive market? Boom, you have 70-80% of that goal already covered, and you are no different than your neighbors.

You guys! Provo is receiving its first Starbucks! The Salt Lake Tribune is trying really hard to make it seem like a story worth being a story, but it’s not. However, in an era when caffeinated soda is now sold on BYU’s campus, perhaps those sinful hot drinks are inevitable. What’s next? Doing lines in the MARB?

Jana Riess made herself a nice link-building listicle about 20 changes made by President Nelson “to appeal” to millennials. Devin sagely advises that the changes happen to appeal to millennials, but likely weren’t undertaken specifically to capture the millennial market. Anyway, the list is interest, and it sets us off on a discussion about how these have affected our weekly and daily worship.

In case you don’t want to click, here’s the list in distilled form:

  1. Church meetings are shortened to two hours each Sunday, down from three
  2. The home and visiting teaching program shifts to “ministering,” with less of an emphasis on reporting and bureaucracy
  3. Missionaries can call home weekly instead of twice a year, to aid a generation that has higher anxiety and less adult experience
  4. Women missionaries can (finally) wear pants in most situations
  5. Service missions are available for some young people instead of proselytizing missions
  6. A new “planning tool” is available to help young adults prepare for missionary service
  7. There are expanded opportunities for online teaching as a nod to a digital generation
  8. There has been a profound emphasis on interfaith outreach and cooperation from top LDS authorities
  9. The endowment has undergone major changes to become more friendly to women
  10. Couples can now get married in the temple immediately after a civil wedding ceremony, without the previous one-year waiting period that was required of Mormons in the US
  11. Women with children under 18 can now be temple volunteer workers
  12. Single men can now be temple volunteer workers
  13. Mormons have severed ties with the Boy Scouts and announced the creation of new worldwide youth program
  14. The Church now allows some 11-year-old boys to be ordained early to the priesthood and some 11-year-old girls early access to the Young Women program
  15. The Church has promised a new seminary curriculum that helps young people deal with serious questions, and integrates their study with what the rest of the Church is doing
  16. “Saints” publication presents a more honest version of LDS history
  17. The Church has rescinded a controversial policy that denied baptism and baby blessings to children of same-sex couples
  18. The Church issued revised guidelines on Mormon leaders conducting interviews alone with youth
  19. Church has debuted a new website to help people struggling with pornography
  20. The Church’s apostles are now on Instagram (Whether they will do a better job of it than they have with Twitter, where they have missed the “social” part of social media in favor of tweeting recycled snippets of old General Conference talks, is anyone’s guess.)

Speaking of millennials, apparently people blame them for the bad messaging surrounding religious freedom. But no! Elder Kearon has made it clear that they are not to blame, even though we’re not sure who was blaming them (probably Boomers). You know what is to blame? Unclear messaging. A focus on unnecessary minutia. Forgetting that there are people around the world literally dying just to be able to worship while we get hung up on bathrooms, birth control, and cakes.

Washakie Renewable Resources, a biofuel company, is apparently a big polygamist scam. That’s according to Devin’s publication of choice, Bloomberg, and we’re going to choose to believe him.

Beloved missionary film The Other Side of Heaven has a sequel coming out this weekendThe Other Side of Heaven 2: Fire of Faithwas also hit with a non-family friendly PG-13 rating, which follows John Groberg as a mission president. (The film , perhaps hurting its box office prospects.) What many might not know is that the Catholics and Methodists of Tonga played an enormous role in partnering with the Church to work through a number of issues in the country. A new piece at Yahoo describes the ecumenical response to the new film and its treatment of history.

Lastly, Pope Francis altered the Lord’s Prayer and it now lines up more more nicely with the Joseph Smith Translation. WAS THIS INSPIRED?!

Don’t forget to write a review on iTunes and support us on Patreon! $1 a month! That’s it! That’s one-third of the cup of hot chocolate you were planning on purchasing from the new Provo Starbucks.


[0:00] Welcome everyone welcome once more to this week in Mormons I am your Intrepid host Jeff hoping desperately that you get to hear my voice and if you are that means I have ceased to have technological,problems and everything is wonderful so it’s great to be here I’m done so.
I’m so skeptical that this is going to work out the like I’m going to work again I didn’t think about the words I’m saying right now wondering if they’re even worth the effort because I’m so afraid,
that none of this will matter in the end because it has been a terrible couple of weeks on the technological front and I don’t know why
and I consulted noted audio producers and everyone is flummoxed anyway that wonderful voice you heard is none other than the progenitor of your mark on the world and a wonderful guy all around Devin Thorpe,
Jeff thank you so much it’s great to be with you again to talk about this week in Mormons.

[0:57] That’s right that’s right so for those of you who have not met the definition for a while your third fourth time doing this feels like the 4th,
oh stop it you. Come on how dare you sir
I always like to give you a chance to explain explain yourself debit what is your what is your relevance and what do you do to tell the listeners about yourself another show ID
it’s not just for Mormons so Mormons are allowed to listen
it’s a show called that your mark on the world I share some of the episodes on Forbes where I’m a regular contributor I also Emma speaker travel around the world doing a little bit of that and I yet also operate an online school to help people learn more about how to.
Change the world make it a better place overall my whole my whole Essence is.

[1:55] He’s trying to make the world a better place I called myself I call myself a champion of social good.
I like I like to point out is a lot easier than actually being someone who does good I just talked about the people.

[2:11] RV that makes sense it’s like the you know the person who preaches ministering / home teaching doesn’t mean you do it yourself but as long as you can rally the troops,
I’m curious what they how do you measure success based on what you’re doing I live in a world of analytics I work for an Analytical Group for a government agency and.
I I think about analytics a lot in the waste of measure things outside of qualitative elements so something like what you do seems very qualitative by Nature so how do you measure.
Success are you doing I’m still working and I’ve been at this eight years and I’ve been thinking about how to measure my impact in my success.
On a regular basis for eight years and I haven’t thought about it enough I haven’t implemented enough.
But Indian would I find myself gravitating towards are the key outcomes I’m interested in so I measuring things like you know the number of polio cases every year,
the number of malaria cases every year and you know since I’ve been doing that my show we’ve reduced the number of the world Wii.

[3:20] I didn’t do much about it except write about it occasionally,
that we were going to the number of malaria cases by about a hundred thousand from half a million a year to 400,000 years I say cases I mean deaths there are there are hundreds of millions of cases
have malaria every year as it kills about 400,000 people mostly children.

[3:42] There been in the last year there were 32 cases of polio.

[3:48] A down from about 300 when I started this work so there’s been a 90% reduction.
In the cases of polio so anyway. Those are the kinds of things I find myself gravitating toward to figure out if if we’re on the right track.
I like it I like it in speaking of malaria is one an interesting one of you brought up you did recently get to interview Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation is a lot of work on malaria.
Yeah that seems like a pretty awesome.
Red letter day in your career I assumed how did that come about what was it like interviewing Bill Gates.

[4:25] Well it was it was really cool that you know one of the coolest things that the Gates Foundation reached out to me and asked me if I would do it,
and that is awesome okay well you arrived I think so but the reason is that I’ve been writing about polio eradication which is his number one deal,
for about,
seven or eight years and finally someone at the gates foundation’s at all you know we got to have him interview
Bill and Rotary International president Berry rasp cuz they’re going to be together right this morning only time
maybe Devin would come up an interview I’m in so they reached out and I eagerly made arrangements to visit.
Spokane Washington where I went to high school in the show and it was great it was really a lot of fun.
Yeah I’m going to give you a little bit of a behind-the-scenes quickly cuz you can go listen to the episode and I hope you will but you know the behind-the-scenes while we’re getting the audio check ready we got talking about the fact that rotary would be having.

[5:35] Me it’s big International Convention in Hawaii next year and for a normal people that becomes kind of an excuse to go to Hawaii
sure and so I said something that implied that would apply to Bill Gates.
And I said to Bill well I guess you know in your situation you can just go to Hawaii anytime you want do you really don’t need an excuse.
And he said yeah the last time I was there a couple of weeks ago a couple of months ago was for a bridge tournament.
You should warn you of course that’s not me playing bridge apparently Bill Gates is a competitive.

[6:22] Bridge player travels around to go to bridge tournaments I mean I will never in a million years have guessed that and I heard it right from his own mess anyway.
Actually it’s funny I forgot about this rotary I can mention that was in homburg Germany when they had one a couple of years ago
it just happened I was there for a weekend a happen to coincide not at this point and I was just there in homburg get two weeks ago for the big the International Convention
it was probably now that I think about it around this stats same time to do there every year know if you were there recently it was probably some sort of regional or no
no I was there like 6 years ago but it was around that it was June about six years ago and there’s a Rotary International Conference so I guess they must rotate it so go figure you for the same thing that I observed when I happened upon there cuz I was in Denmark for work for a couple of weeks
and so we just pop down to homework for the weekend because it was the closest
place to go that’s wonderful we did the opposite we went to Copenhagen after the conference cuz it was a nearby place to go.
Copenhagen is a great town Copenhagen I really enjoyed going there and you don’t hear much about it at least from the American set I think a lot of Europeans and others go there but.

[7:46] You don’t hear much about it in North America what are the cool things about Copenhagen and I think many of our listeners will already know this but of course that’s socialism the Christus statue that is in the.

[7:58] Salt Lake Visitor Center and now replicated and several others is actually a copy
and I think some people don’t appreciate this a copy of a statue that is in Copenhagen it’s Richard and I visited that statue and checked it out it was really that’s over at Our Lady,
I’ve been I’ve been there too and that’s a beautiful I love that church and what I went through we talked about this before
back in the spring when the Run Temple is getting dedicated because the Rome Temple has a visitor center with the creases but they also took the extra step,
a replicating of statues of the 12 apostles that they have inside the church in Copenhagen it’s right and putting them all around which I think that’s the first time we’ve replicated the 12 in that van I think so
I’ll be right that’s a beautiful Church really cool a good deal man,
parties all around otherwise Good Times happening in Utah everything you do you have a great weekend yeah we had spectacular weather I guess that the boulders probably haven’t appreciated it but it’s been.
In the 70s 60s and 70s the last three or four days so it’s just been beautiful spring like weather.

[9:06] Look at us we’re already on small talk about the weather we vote we’ve gotten to that level that’s what the people here for is the weather update for 3 days ago in Salt Lake
the weather here in in the Washington DC region has been very hot and muggy but I avoided it by did take my four-year-old to his first movie in the movie theater which it was a Toy Story 4
so that was a lot of fun as a data kind of looked forward and I love going to the movies and I look forward to that so that was a
a fun experience to see my little dude in this room where he’s never seen a screen. Big
satisfied Gail and I said we’re a little disappointed actually you were just part of a Toy Story 4.

[9:50] I love Toy Story 3 as well let’s issue a.
A spoiler alert right now and you and I can talk in depth about Christmas before it’s very new so I understand if people haven’t seen it.
Okay you’re warned right now we will limit this conversation to Sykes 3 minutes
so come back if you haven’t seen Toy Story 4 Devin what did you dislike about Toy Story or we disappoint
bad it just wasn’t up to the emotional connection in a emotional power of Toy Story 3 I remember
and I could not speak Gail and I walked out of that movie.

[10:32] And for 30 minutes I kid you not for 30 minutes I was too emotional to speak every time I try to open my mouth I would be overcome.
By emotion it was it was overwhelming part of that was contextual and if you remember
Toy Story 3 it was about kids going off to college with,
my son had just gotten off to college know I would stab a basket case I was just the best and.
Search history for didn’t have did not have any of that residents it was a really hot movie.
My idea was bork you I thought it was lower Stakes even though the end is kind of Fire Sticks so please ever want to get if you’re still listening major spoiler head right now. Going to drop when Woody elects to part ways with his friends.

[11:21] He’s been with for you know if it’s essentially his whole Toy life that we had that was a big deal but I agree I did not feel the weight of it like I thought I should one watching it.
I mean I got a little choked up and even I was I was I was telling my wife about it she didn’t care about the spoilers.
After the fact I got I got a little choked up telling her about it because it was like you know it was tough choices but it definitely not the.
Emotional Devastation of Toy Story 3 I’m with my we watch that with the kid like the week before on the teddy.
Yeah yeah you’re just sitting the first it’s all intents when you think they’re going to get incinerated and then.
When just the whole sequence of Andy giving up his toys and talking about it be too that’s what that’s what Pixar does best Toy Story 3 full of Ben lighter and away.
For the villain was never like a full villain you know Gabby Gabby it’s like she was and then out of nowhere they’re kind of like it’s alright.
Everything’s okay she’s alright yeah yes they’re real bad guys in this movie maybe that was part of it but I thought what was missing was the real romantic connection which was necessary.
And missing between Bo and Woody.

[12:37] Right to make that decision to leave his friends he needed to have a stronger connection with both and I believed he had I until I didn’t feel like he made the right decision.
Based on what I felt he felt is very deep staff right I mean what a cartoon character felt
that is that is a sign of good storytelling of the fact that I can get you thinking about that compared to something like some Minions movie or something like that.

[13:08] I also wear the record some of the power of Toy Story 3 a little bit Moot and the sense that.
There’s this whole catharsis of them getting and getting Bonnie and a new life and then Toy Story 4 basically picks up what I assumed was like a few months after Toy Story 3 right
when is Bonnie the same age is then and you know the kids so everything was great goes on this high note that look.
We cancer we can have our purpose we can have another kid when you get passed on
experience that Joy then a couple of months later it’s already like well what he’s bummed out and feeling aimless and lost in this movie really about what are you trying to find himself which is fine but I just don’t feel like it was earned
but I did enjoy it either way all right
that is supposed to Toys Story But if you’re listening now we won’t mention it over again and we can pivot to the exciting world of Latter-day Saints
news everyone and there’s been much of course the sisters came in last week and I want I want to thank them again for pinch-hitting they were not scheduled to record last week
but because of the issues I was like can you guys do something cuz I don’t want to have a seed with no content for all this time.
Can you make it happen to mr. stepped up and I did and they did a great job so that was awesome.

[14:26] So let’s play to talk about I am going to lead off with something that barely matters but I’m doing it anyway.
This is what’s going to happen some time ago you might remember that President Nelson,
I held an event in Orlando just a big Gathering of stink to know that kind of like a Regional Conference even though I don’t do those anymore and you know we spoke you said a lot of what you would expect uplifting good things he met with the,
the Pulse Nightclub on his sister talk about that last week but one thing I want to take the the church Newsroom to task for.

[15:01] In his remarks which were at the Amway Center I might mind you I think there’s no better place for Latter Day Saints to be gathering somewhere name for Amway at apropos or ironic but yes
did the other funny thing a bit of a sign I was that you have anything whether a couple weeks ago now it’s been about 2 weeks present Nelson’s there,
preaching the word of God and unity and love to Latter-day Saints and then a week later Trump has his kickoff rally there I think I mean it’s just a venue but I think that’s kind of funny in a way for some reason so
the press the release of the church says the president Nelson addresses Saints in the happiest place on Earth which is
obviously a reference to Disney properties as we would know Orlando is a big tourism City that’s a thing they do there,
when does remark you talked about you know people come here to make great memories but it be the true memories enjoy come from living the Commandments and things like that so I only want to get on The Newsroom case for this.

[16:02] Because the happiest place on earth.
Is Disneyland in California that phrase is not used to describe the Florida resorts it doesn’t exist there,
folks and I say this as someone who likes Disney parks and who grew up going to Disneyland the happiest place on Earth Disneyland the Magic Kingdom to Disneyland counterpart.
In Florida is called the most magical place on Earth so I believe.

[16:31] All about forgetting all the important things president Nelson might have preached and encouraged people to do I think it’s important The Newsroom be taken down a peg
not understanding the cultural ramifications 10% happiest place on earth besides everyone knows that Orlando Florida is literally not the happiest place on earth
I mean it’s Orlando Florida it’s have you been to Orlando. I’ve been to Orlando,
Scott Bakula place maybe a little less Pleasant on June 9th than other times of the year.

[17:05] Baby not you’re very positive nice person so I know you’re not going to trash Orlando but I will gladly trash most of Florida,
frankly but anyway come on Newsroom the consult people before you do your thing,
that’s all alright Devin you can talk about some stuff now I’m done the there has been a lot going on what are the most interesting things that caught my eye in the news,
in the last week was that.
LA Times ran a story about how young Hispanic girls are doing their quinceaneras.

[17:47] At the Oakland Temple.
Not LDS not Mormon that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Hispanics but mostly Catholic
Hispanics are cruising up to the Oakland temple to get there
to do their quinceanera photos because it is just such a spectacularly beautiful place it’s become kind of.
The place to get your quinceanera photos I thought that was really really interesting of course Church.
You know the church spokesman who comment for the story said they loved it girls come up there and take their photos and then it gets spread all over social and then more come
yeah it’s and I’ve seen that I’ve seen this in person I was at the Oakland Temple out even though I may have been there are a handful of times in my life in general one of my cousins got married there though many years ago.

[18:43] And I work all while we were on the ground specifically waiting for them to come out following their ceiling,
now kids were just there taking pictures I knew I knew nothing about it at that point in my life that was a thing right because I never seen this in la la he’s got a big got big Temple grounds and I’ve heard it might happen sometimes but I have never seen.
Much in the way of quinceanera folks walking on to the substantial Temple grounds in La beautiful Temple but it’s not a beautiful venue and nearly the same way I don’t,
no no I agree it’s completely not because Oakland got that great Esplanade, that leads up to it with the fountains and it’s it’s it’s very nice of course you’re up on the hill and you can see the bay the LA Temple is on a prominent setting but,
and said it’s wider,
and you have a lawn right in front of it at Santa Monica Boulevard and like literally across the streets like a 7-Eleven or something like that so it’s not as exciting in the Bay Area,
enough of a thing that it gets picked up by by a national news Outlet to talk about,
how it matters it’s a great like I didn’t know if it was an anomaly when I saw it 12 13 years ago for the past. But it’s it’s a part of their cultural fabric over there in the Oakland Temple.

[20:01] Japanese people following the Mormon LDS millionaire,
thing going on I have a little bit I haven’t been following it like some of the women in the single women in the church but I have been following it and part of the reason is that.
Friend of mine Rob’s for real is the millionaire real Rob for Ray was the Master of Ceremonies at the event.

[20:25] Is that the one who looks a lot like Gary Herbert no no no it’s the young good-looking guy.
Chili’s in the video that you sent me to look at all I see that’s the one right here with the short hair
terrific MC I know him what’s his worth
what’s in a relationship with the LDS Matchmaker or was he just hired to empty the event.
Has any connection of course he knows the identity of the mystery man that has not been released yet.

[21:12] Do you know it was there for it and then the TV I felt like it was all in good fun so yeah there we go
it’s cool you know somebody I know they have nda’s the sister talked a lot about this last weekend I want them to have it and that’s fine it is funny though because their stories continue to come out
about this KSL ran a story this week because two women share their experience at the event and of course they didn’t violate their nda’s either
but they want more in depth,
about what is quite frankly ridiculous I don’t have a lot of charity for this entire Enterprise take perfect people thought it was good fun I think it’s just,
it’s I don’t know it’s like the worst of Mormonism distilled into one room,
no all happening at the same certainly isn’t unique to Mormonism cuz it’s obviously a copy of a broader societal thing but
but it’ll certainly hint at objectifying women which I certainly can’t get too excited about.

[22:19] And in the implication that 2,500 women applied for the ultimately chance to go on a date.
It makes me sad that that knowing only two things about this guy one is Mormon into he’s rich.

[22:39] And that’s all that mattered.

[22:43] I believe it was I was curious everything was like Fox 13 one of the news outlets like did their sleuthing and found out like for sure who he is but so far they’ve refused to publish the name but apparently there’s no.
They haven’t been able to keep it a secret so maybe someday we’ll find out who this alleged millionaire is which Timmy clear look.
Let’s say the guy doesn’t live in Utah let’s say he was in California I’ve heard some reports you might be from San Diego San Diego and cheap ladies and gentlemen if it were I’d move back there because I’m come on Paradise so.
It’s a very nice place if you own a home in San Diego have a decent about an amount in savings or 401K etc etc right,
it’s not a stretch to make your net worth over $1000000.
Just from owning a house around in more expensive markets to be seven or eight hundred grand just for the house easy so insane that.
I caution people to.
To be careful when you hear that someone is a millionaire while it’s still impressive while I am not a millionaire I think it’s great to have your assets and work hard and earn what you have and that’s fine.

[23:52] Being a millionaire is not actually the economic Milestone you might think it is that’s all I’m trying to say I don’t know if this guy is a of the LDS multi-millionaire.
Or if he’s literally just has a net worth of going to 1.05 million dollars and 80% of that is wrapped up in his house.
And that might be a we have no idea.

[24:17] I mean it’s not like Kobe they don’t even know his name though we certainly don’t know what his real net worth it so it is.

[24:26] It is an interesting commentary on our culture on American culture more than LDS culture Franklin
I believe he needs to release the returned release your tax returns LDS millionaire put put it all to rest your name just published.
Publix the returns show us if Russia is controlling you let’s get to the bottom of this what do you have to hide my goodness,
anyway I think the whole Enterprise is just sad and yet I also I get sucked in every time this company has done things like this and I have been ever since the old Mormon Bachelorette which I appeared on 9 years ago.

[25:08] Oh yes if you haven’t seen that. I don’t know how I missed that how did I miss you but you’re pushing Bachelorette pologize unfortunately when I’m Google I believe the video snow I think I finally.
Pushed him out o that’s good now and you Google my name this can’t be good so open the drives from Manchester.
Write this is bad this is bad timing sorry so I had to Google myself right now for fun days usually it’s all me but something just showed up a story and Lancashire,
the telegraph there’s a man named Jeffrey openshaw who is alleged to have committed 20 sexual offenses over three decades now someone does share my name and he’s ruining.
My life there anyway my point was you can find a video of me if you searched around consorting with the Mormon bachelorette that is excellent.
I deliberately found it so don’t think it looks
but it’s interesting this week we Mark the end of the Manti pageant which has been playing for like 50 years,
50 or 52 years you probably seen it before I’ve been a few times as interesting.
Thing I am not sure I quite understand why the church is going away from pageants all together at the Tribune did a great story about the Manti pageant.

[26:36] And they profile 5 very touching.

[26:42] Little anecdotes of you know basically Miracles that people recorded having experience down there another,
did the rain stop the lights work without electricity etcetera Etc is inos kind of a touchy.
Recollections from the Salt Lake Tribune.
He’s actually I think the one that called the man who knew I’ve been in the Logan area up in Cache Valley.
I don’t even know they do stuff up there and it was much smaller in scale that it was about Martin Harris.

[27:28] And of course the other.

[27:32] Most of the other witnesses to the plates fell away or died and were gone by the time,
yeah Utah amateur it is a state but when Utah got statehood I think martin-harris was still alive and living in Cache Valley so here it was.
Fifty years after all these founding stories and here’s a chart of all alone.

[27:57] Can a vet this Founding Father of the church still they’re going to church but because he had fallen away for a time he wasn’t in
Salt Lake in the leadership he was just living his life up in,
it was really fascinating I only saw that one once but it was a fascinating so I’m looking up Martin Harris real quick he died in Clarkston Utah which appear to be kind of like the Northwestern edge of gas, is what I
Cache County he did not live till stay home I think that didn’t happen until the 18th.
He died in Eaton Centre.
That’s pretty cool I’ve never been to any of the pageant I was actually talking with my family but if we wanted to try to go to Hill Cumorah Hill Cumorah gets one more season next.

[28:47] I don’t know I want to see the spectacle of it I guess they pageants are perplexing to me I I see all sides of it.
I agree with you I don’t know why we want to stop them I’ve heard a lot of that attendance is down. Like they’re primarily supposed to be missionary tools and it’s,
overwhelmingly just members still enjoy it and that’s it.
So if it’s not serving its purpose then like any program you just stop it but yeah it’s hard when tradition goes the other funny thing is 2 years ago the church.
You probably remember this is a Salt Lake resident so you better when the church bought that stretch,
is a main street uniform the rest of the plug in it and it was a big deal because it was the city selling a public Street to a private entity and it was a couple years years,
so I was back in 1999 so two years ago the church did the same thing but in Manti where there’s you got the temple lot plot,
I love the church has some other facilities around it more rural of a community as you might imagine but they bought the street that’s it to the west side of the pageant grounds,
basically I think specifically so that protesters could not wedge themselves between the pageant and the distribution of family history centers in the church
before they did it in Salt Lake and before they did it in.

[30:10] Well I should say that I am giving dates like I know the but they’d also done the same thing in both.

[30:17] Elmira and Kirkland.

[30:22] What are the vitamins they fought a road and they moved it from one side of the Joseph Smith house to the other.

[30:30] Show that the you know it wouldn’t disrupt so people no longer have to walk across the road.
To go to the Dickies Grove from the Joseph house I’ve been there the property was there was with the road sort of running along,
West then of the house sort of along the tree line and then they bought it and moved it in a much closer to the house than the tree line there’s a big field between the house and that the road or between the road and the sacred grove
yeah it’s it’s it was interesting to see this sort of pattern developed at the church has figured out that there a lot of circumstances when it makes sense to just buy and move a road
and I would say not one of those people who kind of dumb I look at a road to hunt
I got work around the road but hey.

[31:29] When you have resources and you’re a little bit creative suddenly your road isn’t an obstacle anymore.
Yeah I’m trying to say I’m done looking at the map right now trying to figure out how it must have been it’s an interesting place when you go to the whole family farm and stuff for the sacred grove is just,
from a satellite view it just looks like a bunch of trees around all the other night and configure interesting very interesting
are a couple of quick mentions is going to blow people’s minds but Provo is going to receive its Provo Utah everyone confused with Provo Wisconsin Utah will be receiving its first Standalone Starbucks ladies and gentlemen.
This is a huge deal because sin will be so close to BYU literally across the street from BYU’s property.

[32:14] When will it end I don’t know how this will be in the same shopping this would basically be at University and Bulldog the same plot that has.
Costa Vida it’s going to be right around there,
and I guess we’ll just sell a lot of hot chocolate or something or drag down the morality of BYU remember they started offering caffeinated soda last year on campus and next thing you know Starbucks is showing up,
what is next a state-run liquor store across the street to where is it at in Devon,
to get a Starbucks in in Provo at suggested that this reflection part a.
A softening of the.

[33:02] Tenacity with which Latter Day Saints especially young Latter-Day Saints are observing the word of wisdom.
Yeah I think Jenna Reese is an alarm keeps on that particular argument interesting question I think.

[33:20] Why don’t have all the answers but it’s going to be curious to see how far down what will Provo Remain the stone cold sober winner of the Princeton Review losing that it’s going to happen
Kevin believe in something well whatever that’s happening in Provo when I went to BYU the only Starbucks is open or I’m so involved a bit of a fun trip to exhaust yourself a nice.

[33:53] Stale scone or something there
I heard I was heard anecdotally that the that the origin facility sold more hot chocolate than any other Starbucks I never saw any doubt it about
but you hear this lot but it could have just been more many more have the flavor of a faith promoting rumor does not.
I love Victor my room or something exciting.
Speaking of Jana riess I saw this great list she published this week on.
A 20 changes that the church has made that.
She says to appeal to Millennials I would probably say that.
Peel I don’t know that the church did it too so that it would appeal but maybe they did I like that qualifier already interesting.
At some of these are not very big deals but they think about to our church and I got to think holy cow that there are about half a million more people going to church on Sunday now because of 2-hour Church.
Is that true I got to think it’s huge nose huge numbers I mean to our church is like that’s the truest thing the church has done since joke.

[35:14] Except for the goofy teaching schedule an oil then it’s kind of goofy but who cares we like to go to church with 2 hours as I read that they were planning on the new curriculum in general.
That was sort of all developed for 3-hour trip.
So you can see how recent of a development to our church was in prison Nelson just said adapt it like we’re going we’re going to do the 2-hour thing
and that’s kind of why we have this strange set up cuz when they first announced come follow me I was like wait what so they’re still like a week of study every week Boy Alive class man lesson do we cover yes
hurricane and every word in the church I think it’s struggling to figure out how you do that and so do you do cover a little bit in priesthood and relief society or not.
How is your okay we’re digressing I want to hear about the how has.

[36:06] Your priesthood Quorum experience been under the new structure lesson quality-wise and.

[36:17] I was struck struck this past Sunday.
By how good it was and I’m sure that it was it was not.
Deep and great but for the first time and I can’t remember we had a real discussion.

[36:36] About something it was a little bit semi doctrinal it wasn’t like we were talking about that semi.
The noise in the chapel before sacrament meeting.
Read and there were a couple of people who are making the point that that’s the best part of church and we shouldn’t be.

[37:02] Show strident about trying to make it go away because it’s that very activity of talking to one another and greeting one another that makes Church work and if we take that away.
We’ve ruined church and there were others were saying but no president or Elder Holland says we have to be more respectful more Reverend and the discussion.

[37:26] Was Stark but so respectful no one.
Sort of made the argument that the other people were evil or dumb and I thought it was it was really hopeful.
1080 C
that we had gotten to a place and it back the fellow who said the closing prayers and I thank you that we could have a discussion and we can have different perspectives and still love one another.
It and it was it was the Striking feature of the meeting that we actually had.

[38:06] A real discussion about
Church topic Nike I said it wasn’t deep Doctrine we weren’t talking about how the atonement works and getting into it but but we had a discussion where there was disagreement and it was respectful and kind and I thought
that has come in part from the efforts we’ve made in the church Broadway over the last couple of years to make.
Search more conducive to an exploration and discovery,
rather than the rote repetition of Sunday school answers which made I think most of us just gag on
many of the lessons we’ve heard even the most faithful. I’ve heard that lesson a hundred times why make me hear it again anyway it was great.
That’s a really good inside. I’m glad that was positive for you that stupid are you getting your work out.

[39:04] In different ways I mean I’ve got a couple of tangents floating around my head,
that’s specific topic though we discussed in my work counseling number of weeks ago unfortunately not in the same way it was very much along the lines of here’s another Hall and said how do we shut everybody out for Sacramento.
And I’m at 2 I didn’t say much is the executive secretary I just kind of sit there in my chair until to take notes and observe and I don’t usually get much in the 4A and were Council but.
I felt more like you did I think we can be reverent that is important a reference matter the spirit needs to be there as that is the most important meeting that we’re having.
And I get all that when I’m with you that these conviviality of the whole thing.
It says a lot about who we are as a people like I know we want to show two people to be reverent and think about the Lord.
But I like it if I show up and someone wants to talk to me and be friendly or not don’t have to be loud about it we can be reverent about it having a good example.
Cuz our bishopric I wonder this myself I always thought I’d like to walk around in like say hi to people before sacrament meeting
but they deliberately don’t do it so that they sit on the stand beforehand and set an example of being there and getting prepared okay that’s fine.

[40:18] And my personal experience is to just the gospel for Jeff I.
Enjoyed it and probably my favorite what I’ve been in because the bishop would always walk around before the meeting.
And I loved how chill he wasn’t introduced himself to Everett to visitors who never say hello I’m Bishop he would say hi I’m Jeff
that’s one thing I always loved about him I’m like you are the bishop of this word and you do command respect and we support you but you don’t have any pretense about that.

[40:47] I’m just going to be here so,
as far as your bra to the broader issue at hand more robust discussion it’s a mix I’m very glad you’ve had more positive Elders Quorum experiences I think we had a very good one this past Sunday
but since everything’s based on conference Maps nowadays that’s the official guidance,
I’ve seen by a large most people literally almost every week I’m in there someone like pulled out of iPad it says alright let’s watch to talk and then we can discuss it and I know it’s hard to kill that my exercises are going to 45 lesson but
that leaves me wanting that approach I just think we like you said the same wrote stuff over and over again so I’m glad.
That’s it’s a it’s hard to have positive.
Discussions when disagreements are part of it and if we can master that art we can go a lot as individuals not just in the church but I think in the way we associate with.
Everyone in and it’s such a polarized Society now I know I’ve really shifted my mindset from.

[41:53] Being a Defender Of Truth to being a seeker of Truth and it reads a very different mindset I’ve come to appreciate it.
It wasn’t so much a conscious decision and I can see value you know in both approaches.

[42:13] When you get a room full of people seeking truth boy that’s that’s a great energy there.
When half the room is is defending the truth that’s not a good energy it just isn’t right you can’t have a discussion about.
Why polygamy if half the room feels like even discussing that topic is an assault on Brigham Young or Joseph Smith.

[42:44] Mom and I wish we could be more Frank about that as a people I loved A couple of years ago I I got I was able to teach gospel Doctrine what it was what we called it back then kids.
And it was the year for doing Doctrine and Covenants in church history which was super educational for me I mean I’ve read a lot of books and done this and that point when I was teaching all these lessons every other week and.
I try to I try to follow the spirit of what the man you was getting at but I have no qualms going outside of that finding interesting sources about x y and z.
I did finally got some very positive discussions even about thorny topics and I don’t think I should be afraid of that.

[43:24] As more meant to say yeah Joseph Smith was a polygamist this was evolving to in the wake of the you know the gospel topic essays updated that Manuel a little bit that he remember when the first thought was the competing versions of the first vision
yeah I mean it’s so easy for things like that to be things that trip up our testimonies
but instead of can’t talk about them openly is Latter-Day Saints and recognize the faults of man at play in the restoration of the gospel and that that doesn’t mean the gospel is not true and the church is not true we can be
stronger than the Millennials yeah
the 2-hour church I mean you come down that that’s huge nothing else is 10% is important but having the missionaries call home once a week I think that’s a big deal to missionaries I agree
sister missionaries wear pants a lot of the time I think that’s great.
And so you that was on her list.

[44:28] Oh what else changes to the endowment to be more friendly to women more respectful women that are not supposed to talk about that but that’s on the list and I think that was good so there’s no waiting. If you get married civilly
oh yeah.

[44:46] I am so excited about that because you know the old policy was so exclusive and in fact you know we only observed at policy in the United States outside the United States,
it was I think nearly Universal that people were doing it the new way,
some variations and now it’s out of necessity because there’s only like three countries where the top of the temple wedding is recognized as a civil marriage the US and Canada running two of them.

[45:15] Elsewhere there’s usually a a certain window so you get married civilly because it’s what you have to do and then you had based on your proximity to a temple you have a certain. Of time.
To go to the temple.
And be what it if you did not do it in that time of the same old rules will kick into effect and you have to wait a year so it does change out a little bit internationally but I do think they’re so accustomed to kind of doing it.
And I’d say I don’t think that’s not as much of an effect because this specially for the actual wedding.

[45:46] They would have anybody who they wanted their for the for the Civil ceremony which is now an option for people here in the United States who might have part number families or none there whatever might be,
hot to include them in an actual legal wedding and then they can still go to the temple and have that positive experience and not
walk around like they should be ashamed because clearly they’re getting married civilly because they were fornicating or you know
you know how we are oh yeah yeah but it’ll be great to remove that and to some extent video.

[46:18] The other item on the list it’s worth mentioning is the torch rescinding the policy about the lgbts being and blessings of babies to their children,
I think that that policy
was deeply offensive to many people including especially young people who have just gone up in a day and age when yeah they’re some of their friends have two months,
or two dads and that’s just totally cool and saying otherwise is,
fighting words so I could say a lot about that one too but also props DeGeneres I think she just made this list because it’s an entire list with links to other articles she’s written so this is some some sweet,
internal linking action she’s taking on way to boost your SEO and your page views on Chantry smart move over there.
There’s an article in the Deseret news this week very fresh that says why you shouldn’t blame Millennials for religious freedoms image crisis now this is from Kelsey Dallas
I was not thinking that anyone was blaming Millennials for.

[47:35] Religious freedoms image crisis I also wasn’t aware that the church
via Deseret News was tacitly admitting that religious freedom has an image crisis so this whole article is just been blowing my mind right the whole status quo is out the window
I mean did you feel that like Millennials were being blamed for.

[47:56] No I didn’t hit anything inside the hallowed Halls of you know 50 East North Temple but that is not a thing I was was feeling outside the building.
Yeah I don’t think.
They are right that religious freedom has an image problem because at least some of the time when people talk about religious freedom they’re talking.
I’m not sure it’s true in the church but.
Outside the church when conservatives talk about that they’re really oftentimes literally talking about not being obligated to make a cake for a gay wedding.
And I find that to be so insensitive and absurd that yeah I think that’s where that image problem comes from.

[48:49] A bird in that same vein I think they’re real questions that you know.
When is it appropriate to make a doctor perform an abortion probably in my mind the most legitimate.

[49:05] Questioning that pain right of religious freedom.

[49:12] We get mired in these nuances here in the United States when,
in countries around the world they have real religious oppression right I’m with you 100% frame and make sure that we don’t get mired down in the
inane discussions about cake when,
there are people literally dying for their religion and let’s take you know what’s going on in Myanmar right now as we’re recording this interview Muslims rohingya Muslims are dying.

[49:49] Because of an effort essentially to cleanse our two
commit genocide to get rid of Muslim says he’s bringing Muslims from Myanmar
which is all the more sad in the case of Myanmar because we had hoped that there.

[50:10] Wonderful Democratic reformer leader was president is a party to as far as anybody can tell she’s a party to this.
Ethnic cleansing this genocide and it’s just extraordinary I of course I’m not visited that I.
I did an episode of my show with Holly Tree Richardson who’s that a trip reporter columnist.
Who went to Bangladesh to the big thing is now the biggest.
Refugee camp in the world at three-quarters of a million rohingya Muslims they are and she went and visited and yeah it’s,
it’s just horrific the stories they tell and numbers of people that have been killed it really is a genocide going on right as we speak its religiously-motivated you know so.
Take me to Market or Christians Christians being in a 02 non by ISIS like I agree with you completely,
there are many cases where religious freedom is not a reality and we are spoiled in the United States.
And that we have freedom to worship and I will not listen to anyone for a second to think that the government is actually going to like go as far as.

[51:30] Outline Christian I hear a lot of.
I just say no no I understand we’re having debates about very particular things and we’re fortunate in our country that we have such a well-established freedoms.
Add that we can get into nitpicky stuff about religion but yours where do we draw the line between my rights and you are right those are fair questions to ask.
As a bit of an aside the cake thing is kind of funny is real Eleanor gets thrown out there because not that I would encourage this but if you did not want to have to bake the cake for a surfer a party or whatever.
You can probably find ways to get out of doing out doing it without.
Just admitting it’s because you don’t want to serve a homosexual clients I’m in you you’re a cake baker there’s no law that says you own your own business and anyone who wants,
your services is.
Pretty to them. All you can say at make up any number of excuses why you can’t do something without having to get into the bigger issue I don’t encourage that I think that’s mean-spirited but I’m in the fact remains that.

[52:40] We have all these rulings about things like whether or not I have to bake a cake when you could get out of providing that or taking pictures or what-have-you without even having to get anywhere close to admitting it’s because you’re uncomfortable with it being a gay couple,
and you’d be totally covered which is silly so.
As far as what’s going on here with the youth so there’s a simpler the religious freedom annual review Good Old Key run from the presidency of the seventy was there and.

[53:09] The main issue here is they think that because basically Millennials are more irreligious.
It makes it harder for them to understand religious freedom and the old folks trying to talk about religious treat them like we have just been saying are not doing a good enough job explaining it I admit it’s articles of here with the way it presents its argument,
but I mean I don’t know who is blaming Millennials but,
actually I do know who blames Millennials they’re called Boomers and they blame Millennials for everything.
And even though they are the ones who are going to sapper our social safety net and Bleed it dry but
yeah so don’t blame Millennials for Religious Freedom making no sense everyone blame the weird definitions of music for Religious Freedom just how poorly we’ve explained it in general now
where’s my cat.

[54:02] Well it I came across something there’s a story I’ve been following now for about 6 months and I’m embarrassed.
That I didn’t discover this as a journalist myself because there is a utah-based company called Washakie Renewable resources that has been doing a biodiesel.
For about a decade and.
It not only that utah-based it’s run by a polygamist family that the Kingston family that’s part of the order and,
it turns out that they scammed the federal government out of half a billion dollars.

[54:54] Attaboy half-a-billion taxation is theft but they they were.
The system was a little bit loosey-goosey so there’s some blame to be levied at the federal government for having.
A loosey-goosey system but it was relatively easy to apply for and receive credit for creating biofuels.
Whether or not you actually created them and their scam the Washakie Renewable resources scam was apparently better than most.
And they were able to to take.
Half a billion dollars and what the what if you know I’m not sure I understand all the details but part of it involves literally just shipping the same.

[55:40] Renewable fuel around and around and around and around over and over again.

[55:46] So really interesting and I cover.
You know these sorts of things are usually in very flattering terms on porch talking about,
not scams but renewable energy companies,
Rattler wind biofuels I love all that stuff and here’s this Utah company I’ve sort of been paying attention to for the past decade,
a lot of people will remember they sponsored the Utah Jazz and they sponsored movies at the Megaplex here so it’s a fairly well-known brand here in Utah but they weren’t actually.

[56:24] You know I don’t know that they ever produced any real biofuel not much if I did.

[56:32] So do you think this love let’s do a chicken-and-egg thing is this because they are polygamists or are they a polygamist because of their
false business is there a correlation or causation to be happy that there is a correlation between they’re being polygamists who resent the
intrusion of the government.
And okay so they are right that they had Cliven but it’s Cliven Bundy the polygamist it’s kind of feel like if they can scan the federal government they shouldn’t or even the state government they
they were among those who began the infamous practice of sending.

[57:17] Add plural wives to get an apply for and receive welfare benefits from the state.

[57:27] Because they weren’t officially married on on any public records.
What’s fascinating okay well we’re on our winning minutes here folks been a great time.
So 3rd hour which was formerly known as the Mormon hub.
I don’t recall if they were started going by Third Hour once we lost our third hour of church or if they unfortunately timed what they were doing.
Attic coincided I don’t remember anyway apparently a Pope Francis of the Catholic faith has changed the Lord’s Prayer and it parallels Joseph Smith’s translation of the Lord’s Prayer.
Okay so the original one if you know the whole thing but near the end of it it says,
and lead us not into temptation but Deliver Us from Evil you can see the issue there and this is very similar to a lot of what Joseph Smith Buys in the Bible the application that God would lead us into temptation in the first place.

[58:27] So hope Francis updated it to say do not let us fall into temptation but Deliver Us from Evil.
Okay that’s more direct I think that makes sense that’s a big change for Catholics I mean if they’ve been reciting their Lord’s Prayer for all these years that’s it had to change so the Joseph Smith translation says and suffer for us not to be led into temptation,
but Deliver Us from Evil so I mean they’re similar,
I’ve been trying to decide whether they’re reaching in this article and maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think you meant to suggest the Catholics copied Joseph Smith I think I had to suggest that they came to the same conclusion.

[59:11] I guess so I guess so know what I do see here is here’s a benefit of modernity I guess they Catholic.
Revision to it is very straightforward do not let us fall into temptation boom straight up Joseph Smith’s version of it
let’s be frank everyone it’s a little bit wordy okay guess the same point across and suffer us not to be led into temptation that’s a bit,
I’m pretty sure of Joseph Smith had access to something like grammarly
this nut would not have happened yeah it’s strange that the urim and thummim didn’t come equipped with grammarly I mean when they say hey let’s flag this buddy a few too many words we could be more succinct
and how we get this point across anyway this is cool I don’t know Catholics are coming home you found the truth
but I have never thought of Catholics Having the courage to change the text of the Bible that conform to their doctor.

[1:00:13] We’ve done that I can’t think of it you’ll be today Joseph Smith translate I say we Joseph did the inspired version you know back in the 1830s but it’s at and forties but.

[1:00:28] Yeah pretty bold for Catholics to.
It’s a big deal but I don’t know when the last time was if ever that something like this happened if any of our Catholic listeners there are some have any insights.

[1:00:43] Let us know I don’t know these things quickly you know the other side of Heaven 2.
That is it was scream,
I had no idea what the plot was about but apparently the plot is about the Catholics the Mormons in the Methodist coming together during.
A real crisis and how it was read the Catholics and the methodists that saved the Mormon missionaries and I know.
I forgot to say spoiler alert in this article it sits in the Memoirs upon which it is based,
okay so I ruined the movie for the six people who are going to say it
not that I have high hopes for it but it’s cool they got like the whole original cast – Anne Hathaway
I wish they had gotten Anne Hathaway it was interesting that got her the first time as I understand it because they shot this before she shot the princess movie that she.
She was a big deal when The Other Side of Heaven came out that she was not when she took the job.

[1:02:05] Yeah I sure hope she wasn’t and she was such a big enough deal even by the time that happen is when it came out on home video to Disney if you buy it today on home video you’ll see it says Disney Disney didn’t release it originally in theaters but he did pick up the,
domestic distribution rights for home video so it’s breaded is a Disney production and they did that specifically to capitalize on her popularity from the parathyroid.
Like she was featured heavily on all the artwork much more so than the theatrical poster was even though she’s not in the movie at time really but
it turned out she wins an Oscar and doesn’t want to do this kind of thing anymore
I can’t believe she would do low budget Mormon movies so tell me more so so there,
genuine article here was about the kind of a q a q medical reception that this story has received an and Faith leaders Catholics Methodist in Mormons getting together to talk about
you know and more Cooperative collaborative respectful forward movement I think that’s great.

[1:03:10] You know it is silly for us to ever.
Talk badly about other people of faith of any any faith so I think it’s good news.
I’m glad he’ll and I hope it’s reflected well and I hope they don’t pull in Argo,
and just completely ignored in this true story of Argo the Canadian did a ton of work to get the people out of Iran
I don’t know why that popped in my head anyway just don’t do it our go and pretend to have all the Strife in the Methodist and Catholic did nothing and it was all the Mormons who saved the day like the movie Argo says the Americans found their way out of their own problems anyway.

[1:03:46] I mean I want to see it maybe maybe I don’t know you talked earlier in the episode actually remember how you were reduced to tears from seeing Toy Story 3,
you just think about your son I watch The Other Side of Heaven the first one right near the end of my mission.
I was going home in like 2 weeks we had a Christmas party like the southern half of our mission in Spain got together for a big Christmas party was fun and so they watch inappropriate movie and we watch that and of course near the end of it,
after he spent three years on the island with these people he saying goodbye them and stuff I was sitting there there’s a handful of us for my group could be going home
that is the end of that transfer and you I was Rick pretty hard that to you want to talk about a movie that hits close to home that is,
that one record pretty bad the other one directly pretty bad with inside out a couple weeks ago cuz that anyway I can go off on Inside Out is Pixar best film.
Argue with me in the comments everybody but it is inside out is the best anywho we run long so it’s time to call it shorts.

[1:04:53] Devin Thorpe please visit him on his various web Properties or do you want to plug in the addresses or things can I find he could go to Devin Thorpe. Come and find me there.
Everything from there.

[1:05:06] Find Evan are so very nice of him to take the time to be with us you can find us on social media please follow our Facebook page was just facebook.com this weekend Mormon please write a review on iTunes if you never have we would really appreciate that that does
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No one’s laughing I appreciate it thanks for having me it’s great.

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