EP 556 – How Open Should You Be with Past Sins?

Can being more public about private struggles help others?

We are very excited to welcome back to the studio Kurt Francom of Leading Saints. We haven’t seen Kurt for a little bit, and it’s great to hear his takes on the news of the day. So let’s get to that news!

Latter-day Saint News for 16 November 2021

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“00:00.00 Geoff Openshaw Oh hello there welcome to this week in mormons I’m Jefff I can’t do it for the whole show anyway” hi everyone welcome to the show this week of mormons jeff opensha here your founder very happy to be here with all of you this week please go to this week in mormons dot com. Find us on social media. The big hitters primarily but not tiktok cause what am I gonna do on tiktok that’s pertaining to this show I don’t even know what it would be just videos of me going like this just like rocking back and forth with my headphones I don’t know what it would be kurt I’m terrible at this. But anyways ah and if you haven’t subscribed to this show. Please do. Right now hit that subscribe button wherever you are hit it hit it right now do that that would be cool of you the person over there making on a moapia is none other than great friend of the show and just a very nice person of leading of Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) kurt frankum is here. What’s up buddy.
“00:44.26 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Think ah I’ll go on Jeff yes” and I will be doing a utah accent for the entire episode today.
“00:57.80 Geoff Openshaw Can you dial that in like effortlessly because I’d actually be all for that if you can yeah put up.”
“01:00.43 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Well” you know I I tend to leave out my teas at times when I go to the Layton temple before I go hunting hunt hunting for milk on my pillow so pillow. Yeah.
“01:13.43 Geoff Openshaw Pillow pillows 1 my my see it’s funny. It’s funny how how little isms like that can translate because my wife was born and raised in San diego her dad was born in Salina central utah right? But it only only is like a kid then he moved to Southern california but he says words like milk.”
“01:29.45 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Milk.”
“01:31.40 Geoff Openshaw For example and my wife picked up on that she lived in utah for basically school and a little bit more but she says milk today not being a utah herself but it’s funny how things like that. Yeah” it’s funny I think it’s so interesting how we can like carry things like that across generations even outside of the area right? It’s so it’s.
“01:37.46 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Wow bless her. Yeah so Jeff you the the holidays are coming. What do you get is doing for thanksgiving.”
“01:50.91 Geoff Openshaw Ah” probably going to see family in charlottesville you know that’s that’s usually our jam so we ah will pop I’ve got a sister-in-law. My wife sister lives down there I’ve got a cousin down there as well on her kids so usually about hour 45 I would say.
“01:54.20 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” is it. You have a sister there. What I forget Oh okay and how long does that drive. Nice.
“02:09.68 Geoff Openshaw On average take the highway down there hang out stay the night should be good I’m I’m ah unlike in many years past I actually have Friday off so I’m very so I’m just gonna party the whole weekend. It’s gonna be dynamite.”
“02:19.42 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And ah” any particular like are you a snob when it comes to certain thanksgiving foods or like right? and that’s why I bring it up Jeff I just i.
“02:25.90 Geoff Openshaw I’m a snob when it comes to most things as you know” just just in general just in general am I a snob with Thanksgiving food I don’t think so no I appreciate a nice meal. You know that. However we’re not usually tasked with turkey or anything like that.
“02:41.47 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah I mean why would they trust you with such such a tall order you would right? Yeah” of course right right? So there’s nothing though like it.
“02:43.89 Geoff Openshaw But because I’d probably I do dyynamite job with it mostly cause I’m not hosting and basically whoever hosts has to do the turkey. You don’t want someone to cook a turkey and transport it an hour and a half to your house that doesn’t do the job. So ah” you.
“03:00.16 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” yeah go to yams recipe or ah.
“03:01.43 Geoff Openshaw And well no” there’s some my my wife will make sweet potato casserole. Whatever you I don’t know if it’s a casserole the kind that’s like loaded with sugar. It’s essentially a dessert. It’s got you know toasted pitons and sometimes marshmals whatever those those kinds of things She makes a very good version of that and I.
“03:06.33 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” okay yeah yeah marshmallows.
“03:19.82 Geoff Openshaw Greatly look forward to that I’m sure we will have some delicious turkey I’m a very good mashed potato maker. So I imagine I I will be put to put to work making some Ro roasted garlic mashed potatoes. Maybe probably do that. Do you ever run. Do you roast you on garlic curt.”
“03:25.78 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Nice I who who I’m I’m I’m intrigued of I I think we have at 1 point in my married time. Yeah” sure.
“03:37.40 Geoff Openshaw I mean most people do all the time right? Yeah” oh it’s the best you cut off a little bit of the head wrapping in foil drizzle it with some evoo as the great rachel ray would say and then just I go low and slow 3 hundred degrees for 1 hour then turn off the heat and leave it in there and let do some carryover for a bit you get.
“03:43.65 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) O O. Ah.”
“03:54.97 Geoff Openshaw Try it everyone I mean your oven everyone’s oven is different but you can spread that on toast or you can take all of them and put them into some mashed potatoes and that’s quite places.”
“04:00.68 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Sounds like we need a ah special youtube video on the twin site about Jeff’s thanksgiving favorites your people demanded jeff and i’m.”
“04:07.71 Geoff Openshaw I don’t think anyone want would why we’ve established it already I don’t know what old long old California friends would know my famous garlic bread that was a whole other thing I never liked garlic bread right.”
“04:20.17 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Mm and.”
“04:23.31 Geoff Openshaw When you get it it at a restaurant or whatever you know and it’s really crusty and dry. They call it garlic bread but it’s basically just like some kind of Italian loaf that’s been sliced into a little slice and the top and the top of it’s all crunchy. No I think it should be soft and delicious. So I had this dynamite concoction that I made up sliced the whole loaf up.”
“04:31.50 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) You want you want a soft mm.”
“04:42.97 Geoff Openshaw And cram it back together and then drizzle it all over the top and wrap it and foil and put it in the oven and it becomes this high calorie garlic Bomb that is outstanding and there’s a lot of stuff in it. It is. There’s.”
“04:52.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) It’s It’s mostly butter but there’s some bread in there.”
“04:57.64 Geoff Openshaw There’s a lot of I haven’t made it for years. There’s a lot going on in that bread. It is something very special stuff anyway” Holiday should be fun then christmas you know’ just be christmas you know it’s just Christmas it’s just celebrating the birth of our savior. It’s just like it’s Christmas I’m curious how it’ll be here because um obviously the dc temple’s been closed for years.
“04:58.63 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Nice” Nice yeah right. It’s beautiful.
“05:14.96 Geoff Openshaw They’ve still done the festival of lights but this year they can’t not because of the rededication. That’s finally coming next year but because they’re doing road work on the roads around the neighborhood of the temple and they just can’t feasibly have an event like that when the roads are all under construction. So it’s not happening this year no festival of lights bit of a bummer but we’re trying to figure out what that means.”
“05:34.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” you got you gotta take your boys somewhere right? I mean do you do do you make sure they get ah ah ah a santa visit of some type like ah the pictures and sitting on his lap is that a ah must.
“05:34.53 Geoff Openshaw Elsewhere for Christmas festivities on a church level. Yeah yeah.”
“05:47.90 Geoff Openshaw I Don’t think I now my kids sit on any strangers lapse in this current environment I mean I’m avoiding random touch as much as I can still I mean just to be smart or random breathing more like I think we’ve kind of gotten past the touch fears but just the breathing right? The breathing the people the breathing.”
“05:52.23 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) A.”
“06:01.28 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) The breathing thing. Yeah” okay.
“06:05.68 Geoff Openshaw So I don’t think we’re going to do that and even if we have a word christmas party santa has been verbolt ver boatten I’m instead of verbolon the roller coaster verboten at our ward Christmas parties because there is a very vocal minority who is anti-santta and does not want him at a at an event.”
“06:19.29 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh boy that was a.”
“06:22.77 Geoff Openshaw This I’ve I’ve brought this up before on the show I think I have and I’d love to hear from the listeners if like do you experience? This is do you? It’s 1 thing if you just don’t do Santa because it’s like na like we’re focused on the sa run doing Santa it’s another when there’s people who who militantly say no” we don’t believe in Santa we don’t teach our kids about Santa and we don’t want.
“06:38.39 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right? And they make the other kids in primary cry and you know.”
“06:41.79 Geoff Openshaw That at a award party. That’s what I’ve seen which is which is it’s that’s to me. It’s mostly interesting” but um I’ve even what somebody was speaking once a church I think and somebody well you could hear some kid go Mom is that the 1 who you said. Does it tell their tells their kids Santa’s not real. You hear these parents just go shhh I think that happened if memory serves I don’t know Anyways I’ve talked a lot about me though. Yes so we’re just going. It’s gonna be great. Holidays are good. Do you know? Virginia’s pretty in the fall. It’s fun and yeah.
“07:04.27 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Please. Nice” nice yet. Ah.
“07:17.72 Geoff Openshaw How are you doing? what’s going on up there and.”
“07:18.25 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Well here you know it’s extremely warm. It felt like ah April out there today but ah Rumor has it’s going to cool off. But so I’ve been enjoying the yeah fall so far and put a fence in my yard and I’m just feeling very manly.”
“07:26.10 Geoff Openshaw Liar.”
“07:35.62 Geoff Openshaw Whoa.”
“07:37.58 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And I’m doing such tasks you know” providing for my family keeping the the wolves out of my yard as ah I like to think and but yeah we’re good here just looking for the ah forward to the holidays and you know day to day just ah.
“07:52.46 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” how yeah how is Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) what’s going on any new summits anything’s going on or is are you are you quiet up for the fall and let people enjoy the Holiday.
“07:53.31 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So trying to solve the world’s problems through Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) . So yeah” the the so 1 1 thing that’s like all because you’re probably gonna post this tomorrow which should be Tuesday right? That’d be the hope see how this goes the rest of the show.
“08:04.57 Geoff Openshaw That that would be the hope. Yeah” we’ll see we’ll see what’ have it bill touched go. But yeah.
“08:11.87 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” but so tomorrow night so Tuesday night where where I went through this program called 3 practices and it’s like this have you heard of this a a no no it’s not a then see this is where you.
“08:17.68 Geoff Openshaw Good. Yeah Aa yeah sure. Yeah.”
“08:28.57 Geoff Openshaw What’s what’s the stage when you apologize for having wronged me. Oh okay” what are you doing? Oh you’re doing is is this some kind of stephen our Covey Cult is that what this is okay tell me more or should I just keep guessing.
“08:30.99 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) No jeff this is that’s alcohols anonymous. this is 3 practices no this is it is not I’ll link I’ll send you a Ted talk jeff that gives you more information but basically it’s a. It’s a method of getting people together and talking about really difficult things so that individuals feel heard. Okay so I’ll send you a link Jeff but people should join okay” all right anyway. So.
“08:56.85 Geoff Openshaw I Hope you stay like that. So I hope you say it like that when it start so people feel heard Okay” your whiners all right? That’s actually that’s good for you because I know you care a lot about being people being heard. That’s that’s something like I know that’s part of your ethos ethos groups. So.
“09:12.47 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. Okay” that’s right? So but I mean do you know? Ah David Osler He’s ah I’ll be will be co-facilitating this this effort tomorrow and.
“09:16.20 Geoff Openshaw No I’m serious I think that’s good like that that plays your strengths That’s good. Yeah yeah.”
“09:27.00 Geoff Openshaw As a side note I’m assuming you see not related to richard ostlerch I think there’s a lot of prominent all are they brothers because there’s I feel like there’s a handful of prominent ostlers and none of them are related so that’s good I’m glad to say some 1”
“09:31.66 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” he’s but his Richard’s brother yeah oh yeah they’re they’re related he david alsos wrote the book bridges if ever read bridges go to your local church bookstore and read that book. Um.
“09:47.56 Geoff Openshaw This is curt assuming everyone has church bookstores nearby folks just buy it wherever you can get books.”
“09:48.64 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Anyway” so we’re doing ah oh come on or go to amazon and get it in 2 days. So so this 1 ne’s gonna be all about let’s see they. Ah um.
“10:03.20 Geoff Openshaw Ministering to those who question. That’s the book. Yeah” but David ostler.
“10:07.82 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Just about like people’s experience at church and whether they feel included and whatnot I wish I had the exact title in front of me. But anyways” it’ll be good I’ll give you the link so people can check it out and then our next virtual summit is young saints where we’re talking about leading the rising generation. How to you know the.
“10:15.46 Geoff Openshaw That’s okay” what’s this cool.
“10:27.54 Geoff Openshaw Are you actually going to get youth involved is this gonna be a new is this a new thing like I don’t know of any youth program you’ve done before so I’m curious if you’re actually gonna have.”
“10:27.64 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Dynamics of leading youth and so ah” oh. Ah yeah yeah so I am making sure we have many youth on the agenda who will be presenting and speaking to be Cool. So I Yeah I’m excited about it. So That’s what’s going on here in Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) world.
“10:43.88 Geoff Openshaw That’s awesome. And in the world of Utah Um” and by the way don’t feel bad for saying Layon I say Layighton It sounds normal Lateon I go but I I don’t I don’t say Layon or I go to the mountain I don’t know maybe I’m partially Utah as well. I don’t know you know late Layton Mountain. It’s normal but I don’t say hunting.
“10:51.51 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah now I’m I’m get myself I’m trading myself out of it late in. They now me hunting.”
“11:05.70 Geoff Openshaw Definitely say I’m going hunting to be clear I’ve never said I’m going hunting but if I were to say those words and I would pronounce I would say hunting I would say I’m not super into hunting. That’s what I would say there we go by the way quick follow up from our show about 2 weeks ago.”
“11:08.93 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” third then when you’re just wanting to demonstrate how you say hunting you right? Then there’s a good. Yeah that fits.
“11:22.79 Geoff Openshaw Um” we brought up for Summer I don’t remember all the context already because these things are all these shows leave my mind after about a day because there’s been way too many of them. But ah we were speaking about vasectomies and how and how they used to be not the handbook apparently used to not just it’s said you had to like counsel with. Bishop before getting 1 not that you just should It’s a prayerful thing you need to do yourself. It’s like no you need to like talk to your bishop before you get that. So I asked the listener base if anybody had done that actually received a number of emails and response many men who have had a vasectomies and I’ll I’ll spare. Everyone’s identity but I thought it was pretty funny cause some were like yeah I was in bishopric meeting. We were talking about stuff and like basically like first counselor says like oh yeah I might a couple years ago. The bishops like best money I ever spent and you’re going down the line. Ah I think they’re more common than we might assume for something that has been perhaps more taboo.
“12:12.51 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” oh here? yeah.
“12:17.82 Geoff Openshaw And no not a single person told me that counsel with their bishop before getting 1 That’s what I thought was interesting. So yeah” yeah it’s it’s it’s fine now. But I’m assuming all these happen before that change in the handbook happened so all of you who got besecctomies at that time you were sinning because you were not.
“12:21.50 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” and that’s that’s been taken out right? like that’s not a yeah right? Bright right.
“12:34.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” and you should call your bishop and and talk to him about it now.
“12:36.24 Geoff Openshaw Working with your bishop repent for that that won that be the greatest conversations. So I really want to talk about someone’s been weighing on my mind for the past few years and I had of a sec. Ah so we got some random news this week lots of”
“12:50.74 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Random is right? jeff.”
“12:54.67 Geoff Openshaw We always say that and yeah” we still have a Grand Grand time I don’t even know where to start though I mean there’s anything you’re most passionate about.
“12:57.74 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh you want to start with your the heavy hitter president oaks going to university of virginia that’s right” he went there and says the senior american faith leader said Friday during a landmark address to the university of virginia that the the nation’s believers.
“13:03.20 Geoff Openshaw That is that what we want to start with.”
“13:16.86 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Should respect legal efforts to protect people from discrimination as much as they desire to protect religious liberty and as you’ve talked about a lot jeff and and pointed out the ah the church I think that the the brethren have talked more and more about religious liberty in general over the last decade 2 decades or so. And this 1 sort of had a different flavor or different tone to the the address sort of pointing out that you know fairness is still something they want to keep in mind and they’re not looking to alienate a certain group of people in the name of religious liberty.”
“13:40.91 Geoff Openshaw Yeah.”
“13:46.46 Geoff Openshaw And what I think is interesting here is I think a lot of the time it’s come off that like we’re we’re trying to navigate lgbt q rights without like sacrificing it. It ever makes it seem like they’re parody necessarily but he was stressing very much to like no like this ist. Ah” this is. People’s religious. Liberty is super important and also fundamental rights to other people are equally important when we still have work to do but he was sort of elevating it in that sense to really drive the point the point home that these are equal issues that matter and we need to talk about them and he also spent a lot of his remarks though. Really you could tell he was almost tired of. Speaking about not religious freedom but sort of the the great divisions we have in our society nowadays. He even took a break in the middle of his remarks which people were not prepared for He just kind of said I’m gonna sit down now and let you just stretch your legs and then we’ll we’ll keep going in a bit. And I I imagine most people in the audience were like oh okay was not expecting an intermission but I hope we can keep the keep the drive going I don’t know what that was about. But I think it’s yeah I think it’s ah it’s excellent. He did this I ah think a lot of people are kind of surprised. Oakes is.
“14:49.90 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” that’s interesting.
“15:00.34 Geoff Openshaw President oaks has been very interesting the past few years I think we’ve all been so I think at the same time when we go back almost 4 years and president nelson was coming in and president oakes’s first counselor. There were many on the progressive Mormon side who were thinking like odd geez this is gonna be like a. Buy the book pretty fundamental like regime I think it’s been anything but that which has been fascinating to watch simply regardless of anyone’s personal feelings about it and so President nelson has proven himself to be very interesting in this regard but President oakes as well who has as you know and you’ve tracked.”
“15:24.65 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah.
“15:38.65 Geoff Openshaw You’ve but you’ve been smart enough to largely get off social media during general conference. But you know that there’s been times when President oakes is given talks and people are like okay um” but lately he’s been really just like you know I’m gonna use my easter address for everybody I’m gonna talk about.
“15:40.21 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yes. They check out right.”
“15:56.57 Geoff Openshaw Political polarization until you’d all get your get your stuff together because this is getting out of hand and you need to figure it out and he’s still really railing on that and I think he’s probably tired of trying to hit the point. Yeah on the point but um Janna reese also wrote a piece about this.”
“15:58.39 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right.”
“16:11.42 Geoff Openshaw And before any of you roll your eyes. Her piece was mostly like yeah the roaks gave some good remarks. They were thoughtful and they seem to be pretty balanced I think her only critique only 1 and you could this might be this is this is splitting hair as I would say but she said you know or oaks charted a path forward for both the advocates of lgbt q plus equality. And those that oaks called people of faith and she was like it only seems like when you frame it that way as if they’re mutually exclusive groups when they’re not which I could I can understand that again splitting hairs a bit but you could definitely argue like well it’s people of faith can also be advocates of the Lgbt q community. It’s not like they have.”
“16:37.52 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um.”
“16:49.88 Geoff Openshaw Completely competing interest. So I thought that was interesting but but she called a lot for the importance. He called a lot for the importance of ah talking to both sides and here’s a good quote though I think from from Reese who kind of she says basically she thinks it’s become most difficult.”
“16:50.60 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah.”
“17:05.71 Geoff Openshaw These are his words odooaks talks about it being most difficult because he recognizes how few latter-day saints are actually like listening maybe to some of these words he’s become exhausted by the unprecedented rancor and worried about the tendency of each side to vilify the other. Deafnesses on both sides many on the left have long since stopped paying attention to the careful distinctions oakes was trying to make saying the church has a right to religious freedom and its own teachings and practices. But it’s also committed to following the law of the land liberals. Ah. Burned by the churches. These are her words churches repeated harmful actions towards the lg btq community like prop 8 in California and the short-lived policy that denied baptism to the children of lg b 2 q parents are not likely to trust the institution or its leaders on those rights anytime soon. Okay” but then she says and. And conservatives drunk with a particular approach to freedom that focuses wholly on the self without any consideration of neighbor or the greater good aren’t listening either and that’s become especially clear clear during the pandemic when largely conservative saints in the us have pushed back vociferously against church leaders who advise them to mask up get vaccinated. Ah etc. Etc. I mean you do have remarks very clear from elder oaks during the q and a at the end when he was just like basically on that front stressing how frustrating it was for him that it’s like why are we? Why are people looking for medical advice from from politicians like why are you doing that. This is just a scientific issue and we’re going to listen to scientists and doctors. And he’s like baffled on that front which I thought was pretty interesting. So um anyway.
“18:34.37 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah I think this is like a good example of ah you know how to ah how to address an issue like this is polarizing where you at least kind of let the other side of the issue. The other side of the argument know hey I hear you we’re not trying to necessarily get rid of fairness you know” fundamental fairness.
“18:50.74 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” yeah.
“18:53.59 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Altogether We want you to feel like good spot and we want you know” just our religious liberty and make sure that that doesn’t become under threat either. So it’s good model hopeful.
“19:02.43 Geoff Openshaw I was here here’s the quote by the way I love this 1 So a question came from judge Tom griffith who is someone I apparently should know because his name is hyperlinked and I’m a bad person. Oh yeah” yeah he’s the general counsel. Yeah yeah yeah and he he’s yeah well he’s.
“19:09.66 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I have interviewed him Jeff Yeah” he used to be the ah turn the legal counsel for the senate or something whatever they call that.
“19:20.85 Geoff Openshaw He’s been on a Supreme’s Biden named him to a supreme court commission. So he asked him how we are living in a time of acute political polarization and president oakes actually said his his quotes were that he quote observed that some ah some of our most and he said I’m looking for the right word vexing problems come from mixing science and politics. What I see happening in connection with the masks that we wear the inoculations that we receive is a certain number of people who get their direction on matters of science from political authorities and he wanted to. He said that was something to be warned against but he did say said the church leaders have tried to warn our members not to make decisions about vaccinations based off of political loyalties or considerations. But on scientifically provable evidence not political slogans and he said he had acknowledged said we are as a church have not always been successful in like pushing this and explaining this said but we’re trying and we are trying to combat the the quote unquote false ideas that he says of misinformation online. Anyway” you can watch all of his remarks online. You can find him I think it’s very interesting that he gave these remarks you know maybe he just went to uv as he wanted to comfort bronho menden hall a little bit after the bu right? and you were loving that you were loving that weren’t you.
“20:24.96 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) That’s right being toasted in in provo I was loving it I was I think they’re happy I was not able to to go to the game because it was I think 2 o’clock in the morning when ah when they played. But yeah I think he was.”
“20:30.33 Geoff Openshaw People happy to see Bronco come back or they’d view him as a yes.”
“20:41.33 Geoff Openshaw I Thought they oh they played in virginia.”
“20:42.36 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Well received there. He was know they played in provo but it was an 158 start and yeah I was at home I well that but I get home at like 2 in the morning I have nine o’clock church and I was speaking in church in the next day Jeff”
“20:48.71 Geoff Openshaw Where where were you? You can’t watch a game at Eight fifteen at night.”
“20:58.67 Geoff Openshaw Let me tell you about late night china and z paul offt I saw eternalals last week and I found I found a new method that works to see movies when I want to see them. This is this is the new thing. My friends and I go to shows at ten zero p m to watch 3 hour films.”
“21:02.14 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” yeah yeah yeah.
“21:07.86 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) You go to a late show right.”
“21:14.58 Geoff Openshaw And we get home on ah and but we go on tuesdays because that’s when amc does the five dollars tuesdays so we get home at like 1 a m on a work night. But it’s totally worth it. You know you’s just you say you saved the money I actually recommend eternals by the way I know you’re burned out on Marvel but.”
“21:15.69 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” hey man I’m there.
“21:23.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I I’ve done that several times. Yeah” ah yeah want your your full review your nons Spoiler review. Let’s hear it jeff.
“21:33.10 Geoff Openshaw Hard to do non-s spoiler I appreciate that they took some chances and got a bit out of the classic mccuu templates as far as making the film and what ah just the story and the characters and what it was I thought that was good I don’t think they always succeeded in trying to and with some of the risks they took as a film points for trying. But it doesn’t mean they always stuck the landing more or less but I’ll still get like a 6 and a half out of 10 maybe maybe a 7 I will say this if you go and see it I I put this on our Twitter there was on like screen rant some youtube channel this guy should did a good breakdown of all the biblical allegory and eternals and he like he went very deep on it.”
“22:07.13 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh.”
“22:11.00 Geoff Openshaw And when you look at it through that lens I mean some of it is on the nose and even when you watch the film but when he went through like layer by layer about all these things much of it’s relevant to our doctrine and his latter-day saints and especially like notions of agency and things like that seeing it through that 1 ne’s actually made it kind of cool and it made me appreciate the film a bit more I thought about some of the smart work that was going on on that front. It’s it’s going to be divisive because it’s a movie that makes you try to think about it a little bit more It’s not just like a rollicking Marvel time It’s kind of it’s trying to be a thoughtful film. It doesn’t always succeed. It’s trying to be It was fun anyway.”
“22:39.15 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Trying to be right right? right? where we go next. Jeff.”
“22:45.58 Geoff Openshaw Ah” since since just just to knock out any other vaccine stuff folks when I’ve talked too much about it. But just just quickly sort of buried in the news about temple square but temple let’s cut. We talked about it before temple square is coming back for the holidays in a much much much much much much lower key sense.
“22:48.49 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” let’s get that out of the way.
“23:05.13 Geoff Openshaw Because when you see this beautiful map provided by the church that shows temple square and the church office building plaza um” ah any of it covered in red is a construction area and I don’t think it’s it’s pretty much correct I don’t think it’s too much to say like the only walkable space. That’s not a building is like. South of the tabernac the law between the tabernacle and the assembly hall and like right around there and that’s basically it all of this the whole half of temple square that’s that’s given over to the temple is blocked off. They just started tearing down the North visitors center last week so that’s gone they’re redoing the plaza the co o b so that’s out of commission I think.
“23:28.90 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah I.
“23:43.97 Geoff Openshaw Still go in the Justice smith building. For example” you can go in the line house the stuff. So so you can do there’s activities and stuff so things are going to be happening. Um they’ve got a nice map that shows where some of the facilities will be even if it’s going to be paired down a little bit in terms of look lights and what you can do and that’s great. Glad they’re able to do something.
“23:44.19 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yes” I was there 3 days ago.
“24:01.60 Geoff Openshaw But 1 thing quietly mentioned that we failed to discuss is that the church is actually requiring requiring non encouraging requiring anyone who’s attending Temple Square Festivities indoors or outdoors to be both vaccinated and wear a mask which I given the things the church controls like the tabbernna. Those their own standards for their employees things like that. It’s interesting. But I do find it actually pretty interesting considering they’re not issuing such mandates even in Utah like for church services that if you’re going to come to Simple Square You got to be vaxed got to wear a mask full stop and it says it applies to everyone who’s eligible and at this point eligible means five and up. So I guess.”
“24:39.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And so this but what are the options here on Temple Square because there’s no Mormon Tabnat Girl Irton What it wast called Tabernac Well I mean is’s the to me like you come stand in this. Ah.”
“24:45.20 Geoff Openshaw This is where Kurtz hedging is bets like well if I’m not vaccinated Am I really missing anything has there anything but do anyway.”
“24:56.79 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Courtyard by the Joseph Smith Memorial building and look at lights from a distance.”
“24:57.51 Geoff Openshaw Look they have as they have experiences temple square experiences include um the conference center the church history museum. The family history library wealth welfare square if you want to travel. There’s apparently some kind of temple square experience. You can have there the tabernacle the assembly hall. The solid temple is being marked as 1 of the experiences.”
“25:04.47 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Okay” all right.
“25:17.18 Geoff Openshaw Ah I don’t know what experience that exactly is going to be like here’s an ibeam enjoy Christmas Um Church History Library Release Society building have you ever better than release society building to the public go in there for stuff I’ve never been in I’ve just walked around it.”
“25:25.57 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I Have yeah” it’s ah definitely underrated So and the history of it How it was built is is fascinating. So definitely they’re running out a wall space though to put pictures of the general re study prencies. But.
“25:34.28 Geoff Openshaw Right? Ah” they got to call them for longer which is a shame because I believe sister bingham will be released this April it’ll be it’ll have been that long so I’m assuming that’s that’s gonna be it.
“25:45.30 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Has been that long huh. Oh boy” it’s happening.
“25:52.70 Geoff Openshaw You know you got Joseph Smith building the church administration building. What experience? do you get to have the church administration building. You know the largely locked down building that is reserved for general authorities. Why is that being included with an experience. What can you? What is.”
“25:58.94 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah I don’t I don’t think you can get in there if you tried like no I have an appointment that I swear not sure you do kid.”
“26:08.62 Geoff Openshaw Ah I mean i’ve’ve I’m sure you’ve been in there kurt. But I mean I’ve been” you’ve never been and you’ve never been in the in the because you’re a heavy hitter other than your thing I’ve been in there Kurt I can’t have been in there. You haven’t been there.
“26:10.76 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I Have not been inside it I’ve walked by it now. Why would I need to go in that building for my finger wagging and they do to be something you. What did you go on there for.”
“26:26.75 Geoff Openshaw This is years before years and years ago my mom and I went up to utah for what was to be the last general conference in the tabernacle conference center was we were in the same I mean might not have been the same session but did you go to the priesthood session by any chance because I was there for that 1 We weren’t there for that 1”
“26:31.72 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I was there too. Jeff.”
“26:38.46 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) No I went to the very last session in the in the tiracle.”
“26:45.54 Geoff Openshaw But so it would the next conference after that would be the inauguration of the conference center. So it was a fun opportunity to go up my mom’s boss at the time was Richard werlin who was who was concurrently the owner of worth 1 worldwide ah a polling and market research firm. He was also the brother of joseph b worthlin. And the brother of the other worthland who is an mtc president in like 2002 anyway” he was a general authority for a spell and so my mom and him were always friendly so he got us some tickets to some sessions and I went in there because he got us to like just want us to come like visit with them a little bit or something so my mom and I drove down that. You know the little interlocking spiral garage ramp they have so we drove down there I love the parking lot because as you drive down there. It’s like ah any old parking structure except there’s an area that’s got glass walls around it where there’s which is a ah the entry way of sorts from the garage. And it just looks funny because it’s a garage. It’s just a concrete parking garage but behind the glass. It’s all like nice carpeting chintzy chairs plush sofas and chairs woodwork everywhere the kind of decorating and style you would expect in 1 of our buildings and there’s a desk and stuff it just looks funny because it’s got glass around on all sides. So it looks like it’s.
“27:54.69 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” what do.
“28:02.15 Geoff Openshaw Little floating ornate lobby surrounded by parking spaces and stuff and I remember we went in there. We checked in. We had to you know we were expected or whatever and we had to wait and while we were waiting elder maxwell came out going to his car and he just like stopped and said hi to us for a second we were like that was cool. And remember right outside the door. They’ve got 15 parking spaces labeled for each member of of of the brethren. You got the first presidency closest the 12 yes” yes it’s other pronoun names. There was just 1 that said silver fox and that you actually silver fox silver fox wasn’t.
“28:23.18 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) 15 lets have their code names though the code right? right? Yeah obviously and it was large enough for a plane. That’s right.”
“28:38.55 Geoff Openshaw Silver Fox was not part of the fun yet which you should know because he he came in because Elders hate and Maxwell died. So that’s the conference he was called. But so that was kind of funny and it was funny. They were all toyata Avalon So I’m pretty sure the church had some kind of a deal with some dealership or some they were all driving toy now. Yeah so.”
“28:44.37 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) That’s right? ah.”
“28:50.31 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I think every mission president drove that in the ninety s yeah.”
“28:57.14 Geoff Openshaw So anyways” it’s cool. So that’s all so you go in there and there’s have offices that are nice little woody offices and we got to visit it. This is a much longer story about that than I intended to tell I’m sorry about that so it was cool.
“29:05.46 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) We love your stories. Jeff just.”
“29:09.52 Geoff Openshaw It was cool to me. It was cool to go in there and visit him and he gave us some extra tickets and my mom’s uncle was also in the seventy of the time so we scored different tickets and stuff I got to go to lunch with the general authorities. You would have lunch between sessions that’s kind of fun. That’s the closest I’m more like icarus I flew far too close to the sun and.”
“29:18.98 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Wow” You’re like church Royalty Jeff you’re all connected and.
“29:29.15 Geoff Openshaw Never gone there since anyway. So ah” folks go to temple square for christmas also included the Brigham young historic park and the young family cemetery. So wear a mask I don’t I don’t think they’re enforcing anything by the way I think they’re just telling you you have to be that. Yeah.
“29:38.27 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So jeff.”
“29:44.25 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right? Yes I yeah so Jeff imagine you’re sitting in zone conference there in Spain okay did did you have good zone conferences on your mission I mean were they lively. You’re engaging right? Well and.”
“29:51.76 Geoff Openshaw I I do I have to yeah by and large for sure I love them first. President boeen would get powerpoint presentations. It was awesome eop. yeah yeah I keep waiting for him to.”
“30:02.34 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” is he still in the seventy he was like a a young buck when he got called in there. Yeah come on and then and then you get more tickets and go to the administration building more often right.
“30:09.38 Geoff Openshaw Get up there in the twelve before he ages out. We’re running out of time.”
“30:19.60 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So jeff two gunmen robbed seventy missionaries on Friday kicking or hitting some of them and assaulting the mission president and his wife a church spokeswoman said the incident happened during a zone conference of the Mexico ah toion mission in torion.”
“30:23.54 Geoff Openshaw Story’s crazy.”
“30:39.28 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Robbers entered the church meeting house with guns and a knife and demanded cell phones tablets and wallets from 13 sisters and fifty seven elders local police were immediately called after the men fled the scene and no 1 needed additional medicare medical medical care.”
“30:46.10 Geoff Openshaw It is four.”
“30:54.18 Geoff Openshaw Also no 1 needs additional medicare curt getting political people.”
“30:57.75 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” right? and said since Sam benrod I don’t read well a church councilor is traveling from mexico city to assist with emotional needs and other counseling options are also being made available parents are being contacted by the church and Missionaries are being. Encourage to contact their Families. So jeff this is I just know there was there’s that elder or 2 who’s just like sitting there thinking I think I can take him I think I can take him and the mission president just probably praying that no missionary drives anything funny. But anyways that’s a crazy story.
“31:32.68 Geoff Openshaw I Used to have dreams in in high school that like my school was taken over by terrorists and I somehow hit in the duct work and I die hard the whole thing somehow.”
“31:43.28 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” yeah ah ah great.
“31:46.29 Geoff Openshaw All the more complicated because unlike schools and colder climates where it’s like a building I would cool in California low slung spread out separate buildings outdoor entrances to all of them. You don’t have hallways or anything you know it’s just um” yeah I’m just glad they’re okay that’s I cannot like.
“32:00.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So yeah” that could gone and sour real fast.
“32:05.27 Geoff Openshaw And like they and they did say like although yeah” everyone is physically okay the church is bringing in its counselor and other professionals because I have to imagine there is absolutely the potential for some post-traumatic stress from that experience I can’t I Just can’t yeah.
“32:09.56 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And.”
“32:16.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” that’s and I just think about like the you mean those brand new Missionaries are just like trying to cope with this new life with being in different countries being different language and then this happens is like man just can’t win. But.
“32:31.82 Geoff Openshaw And their their naysay friends are like see told you should have stayed here worked at an mlm with me buddy boo and to I own even got had a temple announced in April that’s adversity. My friend they get a temple and then they get robbed. Yes.”
“32:40.39 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) That’s right” That’s right. Um man crazy.
“32:49.83 Geoff Openshaw That’s a crazy story I’ve never this was all over the news too. I mean I don’t think we’ve ever we see tragedy. Thankfully this wasn’t like this this is traumatizing but not fully tragic because everyone is ah safe ostensibly so at least but.”
“32:56.99 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right.”
“33:03.50 Geoff Openshaw We you know we always get stories about this tragedies and accidents and things that happen to Missionaries but I’ve never seen anything quite at this scale armed gunmen just storming his own conference like this is that’s just ah is that the only incident I Believe what’s that famous story wasn’t it when President nelson was in the twelve or was even earlier than that when he was like moam he was in mozambique or something like.”
“33:07.82 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah.
“33:16.69 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” yeah it was not yeah I interviewed actually yeah president packard and his wife I’ve interviewed them um and sister packard her arm arm got broken and they were like under assault and she like snuck out and cried called for help and.
“33:23.50 Geoff Openshaw Ah” right? yeah.
“33:36.12 Geoff Openshaw So sister packer like President packer’s daughter law who’s packer that’s not a name. It’s packer.”
“33:36.44 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” yeah it’s crazy. So it’s packarded. No that the mission president was president Packard Boyd K had nothing to do with this incident.
“33:46.81 Geoff Openshaw Though It’s Boyd K packer.”
“33:54.12 Geoff Openshaw But this happened back in like was it the 80 s or something or the Ninety s or okay.”
“33:56.22 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) No” it was the Ninety s I’m pretty sure or even maybe early 2000 s so yeah.
“34:03.10 Geoff Openshaw That’s just that’s a crazy story speaking of ah president bowen. You know my mission president when he he was a missionary in chile and he was there during the pinoche regime and he was actually kidnapped when he was a missionary. Yeah yeah” he tell us that’s I’m surprised he hasn’t written 1 yet.
“34:09.88 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” what my like guy needs a memoir. He’s waiting for you to come? Yeah there’s going to be a big gap of 30 years of just insurance sales right.
“34:18.30 Geoff Openshaw He worked in insurance though” he’s pretty he wants to be.
“34:23.63 Geoff Openshaw Just dominating the insurance landscape of Idaho falls boo yeah” controlling it all.
“34:27.44 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Speaking ah not to not. Ah I mean your tangents are good here but I’m actually almost done with ah president ballard’s biography I know you appreciate a good biography jeff you you picked that 1 up yet.”
“34:37.38 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” no I’m still reading the first chapter of the 1 about eugene england that you sent me.
“34:44.80 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” we gotta die Jeff come on man. Oh man you you’ll like that 1 that 1 is.
“34:47.85 Geoff Openshaw I apologize I Really apologize I Just got I got I got so swept up in the fresh prince and it just took Priority Yeahs on Itfield ma.”
“34:56.48 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Is that streaming somewhere. Okay so hey at least you’re honest Jeff so well my wife and I are currently going through seinfeld.”
“35:05.66 Geoff Openshaw But that’s over now I have no excuse I have no excuse other than that. Ah I so just started doing some insightful again too. Yeah I think it I think it gets decent pretty quickly. But the first the first episode the the the first episode though. The pilot is like before they even brought on elaine as a character. You’re just like.”
“35:14.42 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And did you the man those early episodes were rough I mean they did not know what they were doing. Yeah yeah season 3 it picks up. Ah. Yeah” this is I was surprised it survived. So.
“35:32.22 Geoff Openshaw Ah” this is not funny at all. Well I could spare you some interesting tip trivia about Seinfeld but because you know the first season’s only like 4 episodes long. It’s no so I got a pilot.
“35:41.34 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” isn’t it like a pilot season or something.
“35:46.55 Geoff Openshaw And then executives didn’t know what to do with it. It tested poorly they still aired it and it did okay in terms of ratings. But no 1 knew quite what to do with it but a couple of execs really believed in it and even tried to like lower fees and find ways to finance it because they thought they had something and so they they secured an order after that for a season of four episodes which at the time and I think still set a record. For a sitcom for the lowest episode order for a season in like television history four episodes for a whole season. So that’s all they had for that then they only gave him like 7 or 8 for season 2 and it does get better with season. Ah.”
“36:15.71 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” yeah season 3 picks up because that first I’m I’m telling my wife I get it gets better I promise. Anyways.
“36:21.28 Geoff Openshaw Actually my real excuse for not reading the book is the great british baking show. We’re almost done with the season but honey this this is what happens this what happens Monday night I Twin cool.”
“36:26.73 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I think Jeff’s taking some truth sarah mirror he’s he’s giving it all.”
“36:35.89 Geoff Openshaw Tuesday and I will see how things go maybe I have some free time but I’ve always got to get caught up on relative race which is almost over so that might I might give my time to that Wednesday I’m not exactly sure Thursday I don’t know what happens sometimes I’m going to see movies you know Eleven P m at night so who knows Friday the baking show happens. That’s a thing.”
“36:41.64 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Okay” all right.
“36:54.90 Geoff Openshaw And then by Saturday I’m then by Saturday I’m exhausted and I’ve got to go to bishopric meeting at 7 am so on Sunday so what can I do I don’t that’s the thing I don’t I don’t I ah” it’s just like the pages are really dense like there’s a lot of words. This isn’t like Harry pot.
“36:57.47 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Man how do you do it all right? We’ll least get through chapter 2 by the next time we talk. Okay jeff.”
“37:12.66 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) It’s intimidating.”
“37:13.88 Geoff Openshaw Its it’s like it takes me a long time to read 1 It’s like reading rough stone rolling all over again. I’m just like how do I do this? How do I I’m you asked me how I wanted it and I said kindle is fine and that’s but then you sent me a hard copy which is very nice of you. It’s right here man.”
“37:15.69 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” yeah well you read it on a kindle like I did and then you don’t realize how long the book is. You know you you said hard copy or I don’t know what? Anyways there it is right? there.
“37:33.15 Geoff Openshaw Have a kindle. It’s right here. It’s all good. Interesting piece out of by common consent. We’re leading into thanksgiving next week in the united states not to disrespect our canadian listeners who have already had their fun. But.”
“37:45.73 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) F.”
“37:49.80 Geoff Openshaw It’s called thanksgiving on the tower of Ramy upmpton michael austin often writes very good pieces I enjoy his writing style and the way thinks he researches I love the way he lays the groundwork too. He reminds us as we read an alma 31 the story of ramy upmpton when they visit the zoramites in the land of the land of antionum right. And how basically it’s like a dream team of Missionaries like you said you” you really stepped back and forget who all went on this this trip this outreach and when you think about it. It was because the zoramites even politically were you know. At risk of sort of severing ties with the nephites and all aligning themselves with the Lamanites. So like geopolitically this was also bad to say nothing of spiritually so this is so they’re like all right? We’re sending a delegation more or less to see what’s going on with the zoramites I mean if you have many of you I’m assuming have read alma 31 but um. Think about who goes you got alma amulek I love that zezrum’s there only because you know it’s a callback to chapters way earlier in the book when zeezrum has his experience and converts and usually in the scripture. It’s like well that was nice. Glad he had his positive experience I just like that he’s still kicking around. You know it’s kind of like the same thing like when um what’s his face. The other ammon. The guy who chases king noab then he gets killed later on by somebody else you know I’m talking about no not ammon is it also another ammon maybe it is you know what? I mean ah zezrum shows up 2 of Alma’s sons and then 3 of the sons of Mosiah show up. This is like a Murderer’s row of missionaries.
“38:59.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” um isn’t that Ammon Amy Like yeah.
“39:15.20 Geoff Openshaw We’re going up there to see what’s going on I just love remembering how serious of ah of a mission. This was like all right? We’re not just sending we’re sending the experienced this is legit folks. What I’m saying is we’re not sending the second quarter of the 70 here. This is presidency of the seventy and above people we are getting in there to make this happen. Ah. And so if many of you know the story. You know the zoramites famously built rammi upum their great tower where all of them stood. They waited in line stood up there 1 by 1 walked to the top of the tower said their prayer where they talked about how grateful they were essentially they were better than everybody else and that they were chosen people that they were were going to be saved. They didn’t let. Poor people in the church because wealth was a sign of righteousness so they were all about prosperity doctrine the zoramites and so the piece basically he explains a lot of this which we already know. But for the zoromites you know life was zero sum in that sense. Wealth wealth is a comparative value. It’s only possible if some people don’t have it more or less right.”
“39:56.44 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Here.”
“40:11.45 Geoff Openshaw Michael austin cautions us that it’s also very easy for us in our own testimonies to think about the fact that let’s say here in the united states his example is that he was blessed to live in the only true truly free country in the world that he was given the gift of belonging to the only church. The only true church on the face of the Earth. That’s like true as far as doctrine goes but you can see how that can slip into a a zora might mean tell you like I am so thankful that I have been born into this the best place in the world and I’m in the only true church and I’m not I wasn’t born into some bad country and I’m not born into some bad apostate church I am extremely blessed. But he doesn’t just stress on that he just basically stresses the point of is is your gratitude dependent on pushing someone else down in order to get there or is our gratitude also all for show like I remember the ah give thanks campaign last year was great but we saw how how we saw potentially how easily that could have become. Something where it’s like you’re saying how thankful we are but it’s like I’m so thankful for all my insta followers like you know like like so like at some point you’re thankful for stuff that’s trying to set you apart to look good in a sense and so he he says 1 way. Maybe we can get around that as well is to also not just stress the things we’re thankful for that are more. Exclusive um” which I think there’s nothing wrong with that like I am very thankful I so I try to teach my kids this like I’m thankful that I have shelter I’m thankful that I have potable water like I’m thankful that I have basic needs. Met. It’s not because I am better or more blessed than anybody else I’m just super thankful I don’t live in an environment where it’s an issue that I can’t even just drink water for my tap.
“41:43.72 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And.”
“41:45.66 Geoff Openshaw And that’s not to say that’s just an American thing. We know there’s places in our own country where that’s a problem right? like that’s a thing I’m thankful for that stuff. But also I can be thankful for things that aren’t a particular that are there are every base stuff that everybody has I can be like there’s a poem he reads from the poet charles resnikoff called todoo. Which me says not because of victories I sing having none but for the common sunshine the breeze The Largesse of the spring not for victory. But for the day’s work done as well as I was able not for a seat upon the die. But at the common or the Dais but at the common table anyway.”
“42:20.66 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So is it safe to say that just being grateful for things that everybody gets that are awesome like ah like the grace of Jesus christ and you know like right.”
“42:22.53 Geoff Openshaw I Like the idea.”
“42:29.00 Geoff Openshaw That’s also a good thing to be thankful for I mean thesor yeah be thankful for the grace of Jesus be I mean be thankful like if you have the gospel and be thankful for it. But obviously don’t take it to the length of the zoramites and be thankful like you are the chosen 1 and others are hosed because they’re not right? but.”
“42:40.28 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” yeah yeah.
“42:46.46 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” be thankful Anyways the the piece is good I’m not doing it justice from this discussion. It kurt didn’t read it. So it’s really just ah this is all we’re gonna say about it right? That wasn’t your style. What does that mean? so.
“42:51.30 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Not my style jeff not my style but I don’t I don’t I’m just saying that this is not 1 of on the I don’t peruse that site very much. No hey Jeff said it. Okay.”
“43:02.65 Geoff Openshaw Um” what kurs trying to say is reading by Comeman’s consent is beneath him. It is not his style happens and I don’t see you saying no.
“43:10.54 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” you just picking up what I’m linked.
“43:15.51 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” so let’s talk about Alex Boyer Um what let’s talk about Alex boyer.
“43:18.46 Geoff Openshaw Ah” that’s that’s a phrase I really rarely like to hear. But okay what’s up. But I’m not like on team Boyy a but it’s fine. This is this is okay.
“43:29.76 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” he bit recently he posted on was this Instagram or something but on social media sharing an experience where he oh linkedin oh there you go. He’s networking.
“43:37.67 Geoff Openshaw This this was actually on sorry this was on Linkedin is where he shared this? yeah.”
“43:47.11 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) He said I recently lost ah a fairly big tv contract because after doing a background check on me they so they saw a past interview where I talked openly ah about a pornography problem that I had almost 20 years ago where I talked about how I battled it and succeeded it was 1 of the toughest loneliest soul so wrenching battles I’ve ever been through. He kind of goes on to ah to say that you know rejection is only a temporary It’s only temporary people get up move on your tribe is always looking for you. So um” and you read some of the comics comments jeff and said I mean because I’m I’m wondering what type especially in 2021 type of organization would even discriminate against such past behavior.
“44:29.11 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” that’s the question right? And ah there are many people who were just saying like please don’t be b y utv please don’t be Bey youtv please don’t be be quite.
“44:34.12 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” yes very interesting. But you know I appreciate Alex putting this out there and and just mentioning that you know something a struggle he had and hopefully more people can feel comfortable. And only talking about past struggles but even current struggles just find a community and help to to get through it all. So.
“44:58.98 Geoff Openshaw Kurt and your experiences both as a both as a judge in Israel as an executive and a stake and also but just like doing Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I’m just I’m so I’m not being I’m not always being sarcastic I’m serious like given the experiences you’ve had where do you think the line is on on.”
“45:04.45 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah.”
“45:10.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Okay” yes.
“45:15.74 Geoff Openshaw Being public about past transgressions and issues and as much as they can be Used. You know for good as cautionary tales or as positive experiences of how to come out of stuff but at the same time we don’t like to dwell on the past and things that are repented of um. Like do you have an opinion about that like if if we should be more open about it if we’re just right if I don’t know what do you think.”
“45:36.86 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Well” the way I see it is that if you can’t articulate your brokenness. You can’t articulate Jesus like they’re that’s not but this is the reality is is that our we have a very difficult time.
“45:46.87 Geoff Openshaw You’ve rehearsed that line before haven’t you is that in the is that in the book because that’s a good line. Okay.”
“45:56.18 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Talking about how we’re broken and in need of the grace of Jesus christ and when we avoid that we also avoid talking about the redemptive power of Jesus christ right? And so you know sitting in a room where this happened just ah yesterday at an elderishorm. Um. Somebody mentioned their time in the addiction recovery program and another individual talked about the several years outside the church and how that impacted they didn’t go into a lot of details. But um” it sort of breaks my heart when people hesitate or feel like they can’t be open and share about that and.
“46:32.24 Geoff Openshaw Yeah.”
“46:35.80 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And especially leaders because this is that’s like a connection point for individuals. So I think I rarely I mean rarely is it in my opinion would it be inappropriate to not to not share right? I mean maybe if you’re going to the specific details of something that’s sort of like. Wow We didn’t need to know you know those things but we do need to create a place that’s ah common for individuals to talk about I was deeply broken I was caught up in this addiction I experienced deep trauma as a child that led me into ah more addiction and and led me away from the gospel or whatever and and how they.”
“46:54.46 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” yeah.
“47:13.56 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Came through that. But yeah is that help? yeah.”
“47:16.90 Geoff Openshaw No” it does I mean I would I would love to be is it speaking of elder’s quorum. Yeah like in an elders I think eldersorum’ is a really powerful place for that just I I don’t know if this is speaking just as a man who goes to elders quorum compared to an environment like Sunday school or something like that. But I think ah.
“47:29.59 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah.”
“47:33.79 Geoff Openshaw I think sometimes we struggle as brethren to be kind of emotionally open with 1 another in that kind of way and spiritually for that matter too I think that could be I would love to be in a meeting like that for folks.”
“47:40.78 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Because here’s the thing jeff let me yeah” just throw this out there question and I’m curious your answer in an average say there’s an average elders corn what percentage of them have ah have looked at pornography in the last month
“47:53.70 Geoff Openshaw 1 hundred percent. Oh as I I say like oh if you’re gonna say ever. Um I’m ah just as as a quick aside I am convinced if a man tells you he has never seen pornography and he’s never masturbated. He is that he is lying to you straight up I don’t think that.”
“47:58.20 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Enough me sure. But yeah.”
“48:09.22 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah okay.
“48:12.80 Geoff Openshaw I’m just I’m just telling you and it’s like we we deal with it and we’re and we’re adults and we deal with it we and we follow christ and we get better. That’s just to decide. Okay” but that’s 1 thing. So um how many in the last month that’s really tough because I just don’t know I mean I wonder.
“48:20.87 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) In the last month would you say.”
“48:28.34 Geoff Openshaw And sometimes I even wonder if it’s not as bad as it used to because we don’t hear about it like nonstop in general conference like we did 10 years ago when it was sort of the caused azure. Ah I don’t know if it’s in the past month I’d say it’s probably fifteen percent of the quorum. Maybe but that’s I have I have nothing to base that off of.”
“48:31.87 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Her her.”
“48:42.17 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah I right right? and I don’t necessarily have you know there’s no statistics per se on this but I would say close to 35 to forty percent and the reality is if somebody isn’t well. That’s just my just you know.”
“48:47.47 Geoff Openshaw And think at all.”
“48:54.73 Geoff Openshaw But you also have no way to back that up for as out you to set so were both just dancing you guys. Let’s meet in the middle. Let’s mean in the middle Twenty two percent all right there we go.”
“49:01.98 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Pulling a number I’m not saying that I’m pulling that from a research. Okay there it is but the reality is that if an individual who’s struggling with this in you know on their own in quiet and they’re trying to overcome it by themselves which typically does not work. They will ah they they’ll feel like these aren’t my people like they don’t they don’t struggle like I struggle. So Maybe there’s not a place for me here and so the more that people talk about their brokenness and whatnot then that’s going to create ah a safer space to do that and I realize there’s you know it’s something that just can’t start.”
“49:32.40 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” no yeah.
“49:36.82 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) You know next Sunday like oh I’m just going to do it because has to be a safe place and that’s sometimes hard to to orchestrate. But.”
“49:41.70 Geoff Openshaw Um” do you? This is out there. Do you ever wonder if um the dynamic of elders quorum since we’re specifically talking about elder’s quorum is do you feel like having combined elders korm with a high priests is an inhibitor for that. Like do you think there’s we’d be more likely to be open if elders quoum were largely more of your own demographic agewise I don’t know if that makes any sense but at all but I but I wonder like I’ve been in some meetings where it’s fine. Everything’s mostly fine but I look around I’m like I can’t Imagine. It’s getting to that level because it feels like it’s just people operating on different planes.
“50:08.34 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah. And.
“50:20.18 Geoff Openshaw And why would some of these younger guys who might have it genuine things that they want to be open about be talking about it with the 60 year old high priest who are part of the quorum who just like don’t I don’t know it’s not like there’s not togetherness or cohesion I just I sometimes wonder socially if I happen.”
“50:28.33 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah.
“50:35.55 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” possibly obviously generally speaking just that combination of the high priest and elders I don’t think has necessarily inhibited anymore I think it’s simply that we’ve never seen it Modeled. We don’t know how that looks where individuals who after you know. Several meetings with their bishop and relapses. Then they finally go to like an addiction recovery program and they say like oh I see how this is done but rarely do does the the average church member. Go see how that’s modeled and so they don’t know how to do it when it’s they don’t know how to you know offer.
“50:56.56 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” yeah.
“51:10.70 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” safety for that person of saying well thank you for sharing that it’s more of like okay has he done talking I’m just going to stare at the carpet and hopefully this we move on right? So I don’t think it’s inhibited it because we’ve never learned how to do it in the first place
“51:16.50 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” yeah yeah yeah.
“51:22.45 Geoff Openshaw Fair enough. Thanks Kurt Good thoughts see I know I knew you’d have a good that this this is the stuff that this stuff matters a lot more to me than for example” the tabernac requires Christmas plan. Yes they have a Christmas plan folks real quick.
“51:37.81 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Let’s let’s talk about that jeff.”
“51:41.75 Geoff Openshaw Mostly just a quick notice for you. There will still not be a a tapernacle choir christmas concert. There wasn’t one last year but this time they’re not in person but this year they’re going to do a concert but it’s going to be aired on pbs on december thirteenth pbs will air.”
“51:46.97 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Or in person right.”
“51:58.58 Geoff Openshaw 20 years of Christmas with their tabernac choir which I’m hoping means just celebrating the fact that they’ve done it for 20 years not like a clip show that shows clips from the past 20 years and every now and then the current choir I don’t like clip shows. They are a waste of air set of airtime. It’s when you can’t anyway.”
“52:07.70 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh I I’d say expect a clip show.”
“52:16.81 Geoff Openshaw It’s like when sitcoms do the clip show every season you’re like god geez why why am I you just had to fill this. You just said to like anyway. Um” but because of that. So just a broadcast. Um it’ll still originate from the conference center. They’ll still have guests too which is which is terrific. They’re have mehan hilty and neil mcdonough who I was telling kurt beforehand. A standup guy so I’m glad to see him involved in this if you ever look up the name you’ve seen him. He’s an actor. He’s like a character actor. He’s been around for 2030 years doing all kinds of stuff. He’s always been around so that’s 2021 now you might be thinking well in 2022 things are gonna get better right. Right? right? We’re gonna we’re gonna beat this this covid thing and we’re gonna get it. So it’s down to ah a non pandemic level a nuisance like the flu where we can get there. Let’s all hope and pray and take actions accordingly. But lest you think a year from now things will be hunky dory. The church is not taking any chances and the 2022 ah Christmas program is actually going to be pre-recorded they are going to be convening right? I’m not I’m correct in that right? So it has sort of those been didn’t we read this before why not sing it right now. Yes Choir leaders.
“53:25.92 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah I’m looking for. Do.”
“53:29.94 Geoff Openshaw Also to Friday the choirs plan to record the 2022 iteration of their annual christmas concert during several closed taping sessions next month and sorry it’s the 2022 program that’ll have meghan hilty and neil mcdonough sorry about that. Um.”
“53:38.67 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh yeah” yeah because the next year they need something to broadcast on tv they always broadcast last year’s event and so this way they’ll have it ready to go right.
“53:49.58 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” yeah but basically this means it’s just going to be another pbs special in 2022 we are not diving in and being like all right we can do it in person again. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll have recorded it and they’ll still say guys stuff. Stuff’s okay let’s do it. Let’s do the show live.
“54:04.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I would guess that and I I would guess in in Christmas of 2022 they will do an additional inperson christmas concert and then show this 1 on tv because that’s probably their contract with Pbs is like we need a christmas concert that we can broadcast.”
“54:09.61 Geoff Openshaw Let’s do it live.”
“54:14.48 Geoff Openshaw They they might they might I hope so. Um” it is fun doing christmas concert recordings when it’s well out of season like years ago when I went to that glady night christmas special taping for b y u tvv they did it here in dc because it was like September it was like early september and I’m at the lincoln theater but at the theaters all done up christmas e you just forget.
“54:23.33 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Every year”
“54:40.48 Geoff Openshaw You watch pre-recorded christmas content that the people who did this they did it months ago when and we were still celebrating labor day but the so a is just faking it being in the spirit but it’s a good time. Another quick 1 I’m going throughout you here. Family search what I mean.”
“54:42.31 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right. Ah” yeah.
“54:56.31 Geoff Openshaw Is is a wonderful service and they have announced some changes to how you can make temple ordinance reservations if you’re active in family Search. You know that despite it being pushed as something everyone can use which they can. There’s it’s also intertwined with church records nicely and you can actually print reserve names for the temple. And print cards and things along those lines in order to do temple work for our beloved dearly departed so kur I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this but I sure have when you’re in family Search. You find some cool family names somebody are like I could do this I’ve got I could take this name of the temple. And then it’s got a little hold on it and that’s some Rando relative. You’ve never heard of and you start fishing around like who is this person and you see this constantly where you like you just can’t reserve names because somebody else just grabs it if a name is there. It’s a free for all anybody can just take a name and decide to do it and you can’t just say no. But i.”
“55:33.57 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) That’s right.”
“55:51.69 Geoff Openshaw Was for me I wanted to do that because it’s meaningful and they my build. It’s meaningful to me so they’ve announced that they are going to set a maximum amount of ah” reservations per user 3 hundred rows of reservations per user which still still seems very generous me.
“56:03.39 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” that seems kind of high.
“56:10.40 Geoff Openshaw I mean unless you’re especially if you’re doing some of the higher level ordinances that are 1 by 1 kind of thing I mean if you’re if you’re doing baptisms I guess you could crank through those if you were pretty diligent over the course of a year and”
“56:18.35 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) I mean even if you were retired and you were going to the temple what like twice a month once a week maybe I mean right? and so I mean your still takes a while to get through that as you’re right.”
“56:24.50 Geoff Openshaw Um” I mean once a week would be fifty 2 times a year are you to do are you know are you to do 6 endowment sessions a week I don’t know.
“56:36.13 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And well.”
“56:38.10 Geoff Openshaw So I agree. It is also higher but part of it is because they are encouraging people to use the resources they have to do their ancestors temple work in a timely matter what happens is if you don’t use the reservation in a year it goes back to the open pool and somebody else can grab it which is a lot of fun. You know it’s it’s it’s just like trying to get you know the new oled Nintendo switch. Or any number of video cards. It’s just you’re waiting there just waiting for something to show up and then you grab that name so that’s that’s the main change. They’re just they’re limiting how many you can take and otherwise they’re going to be available for other people I think it’s a good change I mean yeah I’ve seen people just hold on to names for a long time and never do anything with them and it’s. Kind of like well I would like to do something with this name if you please but they don’t care. They never care kurt.”
“57:23.18 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) That’s right” They don’t what else we got sadly to report that the South Korea Temple President passed away. Let’s see he was a early seventy seventy one years old President Chian kim.
“57:31.20 Geoff Openshaw Yeah.”
“57:40.10 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) So korea temple president on october twenty ninth is when he died he and his wife had served as temple president and matron since November of 2019 um and I don’t know if it gives any more details other than some of his personal history. But.”
“57:57.54 Geoff Openshaw Yeah” it doesn’t even mention cause of death or anything like that which is their business of course but curious minds like to know? do you know who Jorge Coco is kurt.
“57:58.20 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Lost another good 1”
“58:09.90 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Of course I do there right on my wall here is a Ho a coco. No” it’s not original. But yeah he’s great.
“58:15.82 Geoff Openshaw Or Coco. Ah” if you don’t if you don’t know Jorge Kokco He’s an Argentinian artist. Ah he’s a convert to the church he does I It’s not cubaism necessarily but he has I Love He has a singular take on the way he does his art.
“58:33.24 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Now.”
“58:33.83 Geoff Openshaw I love his art I think his art’s great. It’s been featured in some church manuals more in recent years which is terrific I’m glad to see us embracing artwork that is also kind of outside of the what we expect to see in a lot of church things right? It’s good I was I was blanking on the term greg what’s his face. You know what? I mean the all.”
“58:42.33 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Right? yeah.”
“58:47.95 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” Greg Olson Jeff yeah.
“58:51.10 Geoff Openshaw You know you know they all star types which are beautiful paintings as well. So I like Kohi koco’s style. The daily male kind of mentions this so he sparked there was some religious controversy ah a couple of years ago because. Was this it was the cover. It was last year oregon america’s Oregon catholic press magazine apologized because it used 1 of cokco’s images on the cover which was an image of the angel maroni and nobody knew what it was and they’re like this is not catholicism and they were mad about it which I guess is fair I mean if it.”
“59:16.21 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) It’s like that’s a cool looking angel. Like where’s the wings.”
“59:23.42 Geoff Openshaw I mean if we published our magazine and it had some kind of like very you know sacred heart of Jesus type thing on it. We might be a little. What’s going on with that so understandably upset but his artwork is now going to be featured on Holiday stamps in the u k.”
“59:31.67 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Um” yeah.
“59:42.25 Geoff Openshaw This year I believe yes the Royal mail. So This year’s Royal mail stamps. Of course it’s the day this is a daily mail article which I could have found a different source but whatever daily mail is the daily mail. Okay” so so it goes out of way to be like this year’s person is someone who sparked religious controversy. I don’t think he’s the 1 who chose to put his image on a catholic magazine isn’t it the Oregon catholic press that sparked controversy by not vetting what it did or yeah and he was like that’s that’s that’s super done to my it was I think his ah stuff’s great I also want to commend though the person in the comments.
“01:00:03.68 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” someone said hey we’ll send you a check for your art. He said great. Thank you.
“01:00:19.61 Geoff Openshaw Very few comments. Well there’s a hundred comments. Most people say it’s beautiful. This is really cool. Glad they’re using them on the stamps. Nice choice but I do like the folks who are like the church is not the mormons by the way that’s a nickname It’s never the 1 they chose. They’re the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. It would be good if that was corrected. It’s also funny in that comment because latter day is not hyphenated nor does it have a lowercase deep. That’s okay” we’ll give them a pass I just love I love our people flooding to the comments section to be like nah ah don’t call it the Mormon church. We’re not mormons. We just get in there man we get in there.
“01:00:50.33 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) All right? That’s right fixing the world through Facebook or wherever it was so oh man I mean we’ve had worse. We’ve had better but I’ll take it.”
“01:00:54.62 Geoff Openshaw Yeah anyway I feel great about our week how do you feel about our week hurt this is this is a decidedly average episode. Yes.”
“01:01:06.93 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Yeah” with the decided the average co-host I have to be here Jeff no I’m the co-host. You’re the host is true is true. We’re doings all right all right.
“01:01:10.75 Geoff Openshaw And I thought you werere talking about me which is absolutely fair I am no I think we’re we are co-hosts or equals man. This is not like a subsidiary relationship or anything like that. You’re not answering to me or I answering to you I I kind of do answer to you.”
“01:01:24.80 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Am my you can’t edit anything I say so yeah because we’re we’ve been talking for ninety minutes and look at how long this episode is now you people know so.”
“01:01:30.51 Geoff Openshaw Um” whoa though. This show is almost always edit free people. That’s the beauty of quit.
“01:01:38.46 Geoff Openshaw Well” that’s mostly because I had to go take care kids on the to we’re about to record. Ah I have 2 sons who run downstairs dad I have to use du the bathroom and 1 of them can take care of himself and then the other 1 runs down says the same thing I’m like okay. And so Ker now talking I’m just waiting to hear yelling from above me ah da that’s what they say you’ve all been you those of you with the children have been there anyway folks. Thanks for tuning tuning in this week ah big thanks to our patreon supporters patreon dot com slash this week and mormons you can you can pledge 25 dollars a month
“01:01:59.74 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Nice” nice. That’s right.
“01:02:14.95 Geoff Openshaw And in so doing you will be the the pledge the most of anyone in the history of this show. So that’s what I’m asking for this week because it’s thanksgiving and this is my rammy upedton give me twenty five dollars a month and everyone update your pledges.”
“01:02:25.43 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) And Jeff will be grateful for it.”
“01:02:30.61 Geoff Openshaw All right? But thanks for that folks and for all of you who join us everywhere else where we get podcasts. We truly appreciate it. Can’t do the show without you truly can’t because you’re the ones listening and that’s why we keep doing it if you fail to listen then it becomes a vanity exercise and that’s no fun for anybody. So also please go to Leadingates Dot Com Kurt’s doing terrific work over there.”
“01:02:44.40 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Dot org. But yeah” it’ll get you there.
“01:02:49.12 Geoff Openshaw I’m sorry I forgot you only to the you way did the nonprofit thing like 5 years ago or longer at this point it’s been a while hasn’t it 6 years ago yeah some some like that. So go to leadings saints dot org download the Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) podcast you’ll find it wherever we get podcasts because it has a very garish logo.”
“01:02:55.71 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) It’s been five two thousand and 16 was five. Oh 1 c 3 so boom.”
“01:03:05.53 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Hey I’m I’m improving that of course you have.”
“01:03:07.90 Geoff Openshaw And you’ll appreciate I’m just getting I’m just kidding I’ve kind of warm I’ve kind of warmed up to it. It’s okay” it’s better than my logo which has the word mormon and a picture of Maroni it’s just like outdated everything. They’ll never take me alive. But anyway.
“01:03:16.68 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Ah” ah ah they’re gonna shut you down jeff this week at zion. That’s what we’re going for right? Jeff yeah man that’s be awesomewizwiz nation and you could like eat.
“01:03:25.94 Geoff Openshaw Quit Quiz twiz twiz.”
“01:03:33.31 Geoff Openshaw It’s the worst sound anything of ever.”
“01:03:34.65 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Twizzlers could sponsor you.”
“01:03:37.15 Geoff Openshaw But I’m a red vines kind of guy I can’t do it Sorry sorry all right. This is digressing and everyone thank you for being here kurt I love you very much thanks for taking the time but appreciate it. Thanks for toy everybody talk to you next week see you later bye bye.”
“01:03:38.63 Kurt Francom (of Leading Saints) Oh all” right. Um hadios.

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