EP 557 – Genetically a Larsen

TWiM_EP577_Name_Changing_In_Utah
Devin drops a bomb on his family history; temple recommends go digital(ish); "Saints" to feature Europeans; Light the World with Love starts!

Devin Thorpe, the legend, has huge life news! Follow along with his new adventure to, um, Florida as he and his wife go all solar all the time. Visit oursolartrailer.com. And we have plenty of Latter-day Saint news for all ya’ll.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff
Coming to you live from our secret studio in a bunker on Baffin island. It’s This Week in Mormons I’m Geoff openshaw your founder and host we’re this week in something this week in Inuit is what we will be this week tweet

00:08.30
Devin
Ah.

00:20.90
Geoff
Anyway, the man giving me pity laughter. He’s been gone for a couple of months. Very glad to welcome to the pod Devon thorpe how you doing my friend. So.

00:22.60
Devin
Ah, it is good to be back I’m sorry I’ve missed you for so long I just feel like I’ve been out alone in the wilderness but it’s good to be. Yeah I’ve had a lot going on lot going on I.

00:32.88
Geoff
You You’ve you’ve had some some you’ve had some things going on. You’ve had you’ve had some things going on I mean I think yeah yeah, so what? what’s new with you. What’s what’s going on Devin you’re just hanging out you running congress again in Utah or other changes.

00:41.17
Devin
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, no, we’re moving to Florida and we’re gonna buy a truck in a trailer and travel around a lot.

00:52.11
Geoff
Um, now I need to ask you what your code word is whether you are safe or under duress based on that statement I’m moving to Florida because people don’t usually say that willfully just want to be clear where where are you.

01:02.80
Devin
Ah, yeah, yeah, no, we’re excited to get out of the snow, especially this time of year this is the time of year to be moving to Florida so we’re excited.

01:11.57
Geoff
So if you’re trying to be sunbirds. Why not go to the texas coast or Arizona or many of the other locales. Why any any reason just like Florida in particular.

01:20.60
Devin
Yeah, um, we have long looked at Florida we’ve we’ve enjoyed Florida most arcs I will confess that my wife’s very first visit to Florida resulted in the words I’m never coming back here. Famous last words, we’re now moving to Florida so but yeah, we’ve had a lot of good experiences in Florida so we’re excited to get back there and um.

01:48.90
Geoff
Cool. It’s like me when I went to Arizona earlier this year I just said like why does like why does anyone even let why do people live here I don’t understand this I’ll spare my beloved arizonans the the grief I just i.

01:54.76
Devin
Yeah, yeah, I’ve been yes it it. Yeah Phoenix can get warm. It can get kind of warm. Yeah, yeah, that’s what my wife didn’t like yeah it was It was.

02:04.50
Geoff
Yeah, well soak can Florida very hot day. Very humid lot going on.

02:13.50
Devin
You know when it’s ninety five degrees and ninety five percent humidity that is warm weather. No, that’s why we bought the truck and the trailer we will go north and we will spend the Summer in the north the great white north. We’ll go to canada.

02:16.49
Geoff
But you’re like deal with a gale. This is my dream.

02:26.52
Geoff
And go to a go up to Acadia and you do it? Okay, well, that’s fun. So Goodbye Utah and Hello florida.

02:31.80
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re getting ah an electric truck and and we’re gonna put solar panels and remove all of the like propane and gas stuff. No Generator. We’re gonna be. Live entirely off the solar panels on the on the trailer. That’s our goal. No not with the rooftop ones you can’t but we will carry some extras and then we’re going to look for every opportunity to you know.

02:53.13
Geoff
So can you get enough Kilowatt hours out of ah out of the solar panels for a whole trailer. Okay.

03:08.26
Devin
Energy conservation like 1 of the things.

03:10.54
Geoff
It’ll be kind of like like in the Martian like you’re just gonna stop and then plug in the solar panels and just lay there on the ground and wait from to charge up that kind of thing. Okay, that’s cool dev and I admire you and your absolute altruism and idealism with stuff like this I would love to get an ev I’m just not there yet.

03:14.95
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:28.80
Geoff
Just with life situation can now I’m not much of a truck guy. But I admit since I do follow the ev Market I’m super intrigued by I love what Ford’s doing with the f 1 hundred fifty lightning which I think is going to make a killing because they’ve just made it a regular looking f 1 fifty. That’s all electric and has a huge front which is awesome.

03:28.90
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

03:39.19
Devin
Yeah.

03:45.71
Devin
Yes.

03:48.70
Geoff
But I also loved the rivian I’m a huge and rivian had their ipo last weekm I love the rivs I think those are beautiful trucks is either 1 of those in the mix or you doing something.

03:51.88
Devin
Yeah. Yeah, so we were we watched the Ford lightning launch party live you know bowl of popcorn ready ready to go. We were like why are they starting? Yes, you know so we were excited.

04:08.33
Geoff
So as 1 does sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:14.44
Devin
And we did but we both loved the truck but its problem is that the the battery size in that truck is the smallest of the 3 contenders the 3 contenders being the Ford the rivian and then the tesla it’s quite a bit smaller. Yeah.

04:24.70
Geoff
And the battery in the fphone fifty is smaller than the rivey. It’s ah it’s It’s a substantially larger truck. That’s that’s surprising. That’s interesting.

04:32.57
Devin
Quite a bit smaller and so it won’t tow ah won’t go as far its maximum range is about 2 hundred and fifty miles which is great if you’re just working you know going to the job site and back which is really what it’s been optimized for the rivian has been designed in mind with camping. But even then I have to say the tesla.

04:41.80
Geoff
Yeah.

04:52.18
Devin
Is better has the biggest battery and the most towing capacity and it’s what it was our first choice but you may have heard if you’re keeping track of these things that tesla rolled back its production schedule twelve months. Over the summer and when that happened we said we can’t wait. You know we’re not getting younger. Ah, we’re gonna get the rivian so we have settled for the Rivan. Oh yeah, that’s what you know that was 1 of the things gail hates the cyber track appearance at least she did.

05:10.66
Geoff
Yeah I’d love to see you drop I’d love to see you in a cyber truck though just driving around your cyber truck.

05:26.25
Geoff
But you said this is my dream Gail deal with it. That’s what this whole thing is that’s what I’m about.

05:26.53
Devin
But the more she thought about it. She kind of realized no no, she began to appreciate that of the 3 trucks it is the most obviously not a regular pickup truck and and it’s the most obviously different and and she kind of said you know? yeah.

05:37.79
Geoff
Yeah, yeah, that’s true.

05:46.19
Devin
If if we’re going to do this in part kind of as a business thing to go out and talk about you know what? we’re doing out there on the road we want to stand out not be settled and under the you know under the radar so that that was part of the appeal.

05:56.46
Geoff
So now are you going to get the this is a huge digression. But 1 thing I love about the rivians is how they have that storage cubby that runs the width of the vehicle right behind the cab before we get to the wheel well in the truck. It’s in that area that almost any any normal truck where you basically have lost volume kind of where your bed sets and all that.

06:04.81
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

06:16.20
Geoff
They’ve made that a pass-through space for all kinds of storage but you can also get add-ons with like a pullout kitchen with an induction range and stuff like that will you I’m just curious if you will be getting that with it I mean you’ll have a trailer but if you get that it would be so cool. So.

06:18.80
Devin
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, we will yeah it would be cool. But yeah that it is a really innovative truck. It’s very.. It’s the most expensive of the 3 and and.

06:35.33
Geoff
So it’s more in a cyber a cybertruck Wow I don’t know that.

06:39.20
Devin
It’s it. Yeah, it’s about ten Grand more than the cyber truck as close as you can get them apples to apples. Ah, but yeah, so we’re we’re we’re we’ve got our rivian ordered now and we’re waiting but we haven’t really gotten a good idea when we’ll get ours.

06:42.58
Geoff
Yeah, yeah.

06:55.78
Devin
I talked to a friend who ordered 1 and he thinks his is coming in January for no good reason and I think mine is coming in July for no good reason so I don’t know when or how we’ll ever find out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that so yeah, we’re excited.

07:03.57
Geoff
So I mean I mean people are taking delivery of those unlike the other trucks they’re in they’re in the wild now. So cool Devin that’s a fascinating adventure for you congratulations.

07:15.33
Devin
Yeah, so yeah, if people are interested. They can follow us at our solartrailer dot com.

07:24.21
Geoff
Now have you considered vlogging all of this because I think a website play is nice. But if you turn this into an actual Youtube Channel with regular uploads about what you’re doing I believe you will be successful. You will find ah okay.

07:35.24
Devin
There will be that too. We there that will that will come so far. We’ve been writing about it but we will be and podcasting and and youtubing and everything yeah people.

07:49.91
Geoff
Awesome! Our solartruck dot com. You said our Solotrailer dot com. Well there we go everybody exciting adventure I don’t have a secondary website to which I can direct you about any of my hobbies.

07:54.79
Devin
Our solartrailer dot com.

08:06.73
Geoff
Cause literally I have none at this point my Hobby would just be please go to sleep my childrenren dot com and that would about be the end of it that that would about be the end of it tonight we were trying to do a little lesson with them for family home evening about thanks and so they got to play this game where they.

08:09.84
Devin
Um, ah it’s twin twin is your our solar trailer.

08:22.89
Geoff
Randomly picked candy. It was left over halloween candy candy out of a bowl. They couldn’t see whichever color it was it was color coded. They had to describe whatever like a person or an event or a thing or something based on the color that they were grateful for which was a lot of fun but I ate candy and I feel gross you know and it’s like I’m I’m an old man now Devin and I don’t.

08:38.28
Devin
Yeah, yeah I can relate.

08:42.46
Geoff
Like getting the candy and but my crusade to become diabetic is succeeding so I’m glad to see that I hope to embrace that going in all right folks. Ah I don’t even know where to start with the news this week

08:45.32
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

08:55.98
Geoff
We have? Ah, ah, there’s a number of articles I’m sure we won’t get to all of them which is fine. Some of them are mere mentions which is also just fine. You know how would this show be if there was no commentary what if I literally just read like copy covering a headline to explain the news to people and said nothing else about that would be fascinating in and of itself. But we don’t do that on the show folks. Oh no, it’s gonna get real It’s gonna get heated devin as you know, very just he’s a fire brand and stuff stuff’s gonna get real I’m gonna jump into my first 1 this week out of nowhere I just found out we found out this week

09:20.52
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah.

09:32.64
Geoff
They’ve ah given us some more information about the upcoming volume of saints. The wonderful series covering the history of the church. We have volume volume 1 ended what right before the crossing of the plains I think if I if memory serves volume 2 covered a much lengthy year period of time.

09:44.49
Devin
Nothing.

09:50.85
Geoff
Volume 3 though is not going to just like take us up into I don’t know you know world war 2 and the mckay area I’m sure there will be elements of that. But instead location wise it’s going to focus primarily on the members of the church in the United kingdom in europe and it’ll come out in the first half of twenty twenty two I think this is super cool I know I’m a bit of a europhile. My mission in europe definitely not in 1 of the classic countries as far as church membership goes I don’t even know if there’s a single convert from Spain who came over and crossed the plains to go to to go to utah or anything like that. But ah, which mission was he in devin.

10:19.80
Devin
Now my brother did his mission in spain too I didn’t know we had that shared reference but he was in Malaga. yeah yeah I have never been to spain I’ve been all over europe and i.

10:29.70
Geoff
Ah, no longer exists but good for him Malaga lasted a while I was in Barcelona you know so it’s like I really didn’t sort of you could say I didn’t even really serve in Spain I served in Catalonia which is like occupied by Spain if we want to be clear about it right? like we’re like.

10:38.91
Devin
Been all around Spain I’ve never been to the.

10:45.50
Devin
All right? yeah.

10:48.20
Geoff
We’re like ah a real nation and a people that are just stuck being part of spain because Spain said so anyway vi vica catalundia this will be cool I’m so I’m so I mean they’re going to cover the saints in czechoslovakia which is.

10:52.83
Devin
Yeah, interesting. But yes this book is going to be great. Yeah.

11:04.57
Geoff
You might hear that 1 and say what? but actually we had a lot of members in czechoslovakia back in the day that was ah, kind of an actually a decent little little nucleus for church activity back when but czechoslo the other ones are ones you might expect france germany the netherlands united kingdom other european countries 1 of the. Men working on this is Dr. James perry who’s an english convert to the church and he works for the church history department and he’s played a big role in putting all of this together and I think this will be great. This will be a fascinating volume to learn more about these these great saints in different part of the world.

11:30.46
Devin
Yeah, they volumes 1 and 2 have been terrific. They have really been terr I Thought they the the church deserves great credit for Bringing. Ah, remarkable transparency and honesty and integrity to these stories and this is not what is the book that President Hinkley wrote the little church history book that he wrote that.

11:59.59
Geoff
And I know the way to knock them. Not true, not true to the faith. The 1

12:02.86
Devin
Yeah, um, and I’m sorry I I don’t mean to be critical, but it was It was a short faith promoting story version of Church history which I’ve read it. It’s great. It’s brilliant and it is kind of the inspiring version of Church History truth or short. Yes, yes.

12:14.86
Geoff
Truth I think you’re thinking of a truth restore is that the 1 you’re thinking to? yeah yeah I probably have a copy right over here.

12:21.64
Devin
But saints saints is much more like ah rough stone rolling and more academic thoughtful expository approach to church history. So that people who do the homework who actually read these books come away feeling like oh yeah I understand all the tough things that went on. I understand the context for the scriptures I understand the context for Brigham young I understand and so I think these have been really good.

12:47.20
Geoff
And I think we owe so much of this to the even things like the Gospel topics essays and the decisions that were made clearly deliberately into being a little more factual. A little less I don’t know how we’d want to say a little less like faux mainstream in our approach I mean I think like whatever I think of this I think of.

13:02.80
Devin
Um, yeah.

13:06.76
Geoff
The fact that our narrative for years with all the pictures was always Joseph Smith staring down at the gold plates. You know with his finger running along the text dictating to Oliver cowde right next to him which wasn’t the process right? and now and for so at some point we decided that was the narrative we needed to promulgate because I don’t know it played better I don’t know what the reasons were.

13:13.82
Devin
Right.

13:21.00
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah.

13:24.35
Geoff
Ah, but we’ve decided to be a little bit more transparent about these things and so and that like you said saints has been great about that I don’t think it’ll satisfy every you know every every polemicist in the world and some of those senses. But I think they are great books I’m a little back I’m little backlogged on a volume 2 but volume 3 I think this is terrific i.

13:30.24
Devin
Right.

13:39.68
Devin
Um, yeah.

13:43.43
Geoff
There’s amazing stories that come out of this and I have to wonder nothing but conjecture of course because had this had many of these saints in europe not joined the church and then sacrificed a lot many of them. Also they joined the church and sometimes they lived in their countries for years while they saved money to pay for a crossing of the atlantic. For example I think. And think we get in our head these people like got baptized got on a boat boom they were in Nabu. It wasn’t always that sometimes it took many years for them to join to join the saints elsewhere but I always enjoy myself. Yeah.

14:08.81
Devin
Oh yeah, well and I have so many ancestors. Personally this is a deeply personal thing for me because I I spent a lot of time with the family history and most of my family comes from from great britain and Denmark Ah, Gail’s my why eyes family comes from Germany and so this is going to be the history of our families. This is.

14:27.41
Geoff
Evan we’re like the same person I’m I’m danish and british too where in denmark here is your family from are they from vbog are we related I’m all I’m like I’ve got a but I’ve got a big I’ve got a strong Mortonsson line. That’s where they come for I on the.

14:28.60
Devin
Meaningful stuff. Oh my gosh. We’re probably I’m sure I have v borg relatives we. We’re probably cousins we’re probably cousins Geoff yeah I’m I’m really I’m a fake thorpe as it turns out I’m I’m actually genetically a larson but my great grandfather yeah was living in ephram with about a Hundred other larsons and the bishop asked the larsons in the ward some of them to change their names and.

14:43.93
Geoff
The danish side on my dad I.

14:58.45
Geoff
Oh really, how funny.

15:02.21
Devin
There are 2 theories in the family. My theory about why he chose thorpe was that it it appears to me that there was a prominent thorpe family living in in town and so he chose thorpe the way someone today might choose huntsman.

15:19.10
Geoff
Yeah, that is fascinating I mean you hear about stories like that at ellis island or things like where people don’t know better but you know they just what what was the rationale at that time in Central utah to ask your your family to change their name. But.

15:20.59
Devin
In Utah know know yeah it Yeah I think it was just in the ward. Just the bishop did it the the story we’ve heard is pretty consistent. Ah.

15:35.88
Geoff
But like what was it because there were too many larsons and he just wanted to mix it up for the sake of identifying people and just said I needed. Yeah, that’s all it was.

15:39.90
Devin
And yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just a you know the word clerk was confused I guess you know I mean I don’t know that’s interesting I can’t imagine that.

15:48.95
Geoff
Ah, totally different question. How long have there been board clerks have there have there always been board clerks I don’t know.

15:57.22
Devin
The war didn’t have a award clerk or someone doing that kind of work. Whatever they called him you know.

16:03.16
Geoff
That’s funny that it was that deliberate for you? How cool? Yeah I’m ah you know, open shahs. There were some who crossed there’s actually a decent number of open shaws in utah I don’t know if it’s the most concentrated part of open shaw in the us but to open shaw. It’s ah it’s a district in Manchester for best I can tell banchester england so you know we.

16:12.53
Devin
Yeah.

16:19.94
Geoff
Stem from there and that’s as I can tell it’s a bit rough and ready is my understanding I’ve done some Google image searches on there some street view stuff and it looks like it’s a bit of a mess The open shaw area I think we could try to make the name a bit stronger I know man City kind of plays close by but I haven’t been there I need to go to openshawn check it out.

16:29.47
Devin
Fifth.

16:34.87
Devin
Yeah, you need to? yeah.

16:38.68
Geoff
So this is cool. It’ll be I think great experience and what I was getting out before is like so many of these saints came over and they they bolstered the church in very real ways I think it stands to reason I can’t say the church wouldn’t have survived the lord can take care of a lot of things but this influx of saints from europe. Particularly during like the late navu period and then crossing the plains was was crucial to the strength of numbers of the church of members and that’s even why today if you ever look at it’s using census data and things like that if you look at say by County. Um, if you look at how how would I phrase this you know the the location of.

16:56.60
Devin
Um, oh yeah, yeah.

17:13.88
Geoff
Whichever part of the population and the greatest percentage of descent of where of where your descendants are from by County in the us a lot of the us is german at least for the white population. Lots of german but utah almost carved out in the shape of the state is British. And you see this on these maps you see people are descended from germans all over America that’s the plurality at least but very british in utah because the history. There’s a lot different. So um, anyways I always wonder what I wonder what it would be like had they never left assuming the church would have survived anyway here but had they never left.

17:31.47
Devin
Um, yeah, that’s fascinating. So. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what? if yeah, what if 10000 mormons in in London or in in England had become.

17:47.50
Geoff
How that would be what would the church be like in these european countries today if they weren’t drained because the church struggles a bit. You know it’s it’s comparatively small and growth growth is minimal and.

18:04.97
Devin
Ah, million today. Ah, that would be a very interesting thing.

18:05.30
Geoff
Yeah I mean you have you have stories of you know Iceland is only has 3 hundred thousand people today and you had actually ah back in the nineteenth century a decent number of coppers from iceland they came to utah and you know they famously I believe this the famous story says they. Brimeling sent them to spanish fork because that’s where the danish people were and they kind of laughed because they’re like um there I think back then they were part of the kingdom of denmark but they’re like yeah well’re icelandic and so there’s a lot of people with icelandic roots and spanish fork. This will be fun I’m sure a lot of people get if you got a reading it? Yeah good for them. So ah.

18:27.68
Devin
Ah. Interesting. Yeah will be.. It’ll be great. Great addition, great addition.

18:40.62
Geoff
Let they say q first half of 2020 so first half of twenty twenty two not q 1 necessarily but first half okay

18:43.98
Devin
Yeah, well ah you picked up a story this week that that probably we could talk about for a minute that just is like so you know weird mormon stories for the week but it’s this there we go, you’re right? That’s what it is.

18:56.43
Geoff
Um, it’s more. It’s mormons behaving Badly it’s this twin sisters favorite or favorite segment. Yeah, this is for you.

19:03.62
Devin
Ah, but but you know these nice ah young women from a ward and their young women leader were out leaving. Thank you notes for thanksgiving around town on the homes of members of the ward. You know this was not. A very controversial thing but 1 of the 1 of the members of the ward. Ah that they left it on was the sheriff and he flipped out came running out of his house with a gun ah chased the women into their car yanked 1 of the women. Out of the car yelled and screamed at her. Ah finally the women ah felt safe to leave and immediately of course called nine 1 1 because they’d been traumatized and the sheriff is now ah on leave while this whole situation. Ah. Is investigated so blackfoot idaho that’s right Yeah, and so this was is Roland the sheriff I want to get the name right? if I say a name and.

20:02.26
Geoff
And this this happened in blackfot by the way which is I believe pretty much equidistin between like Pocateella Idaho Falls roughly roughly? yeah.

20:17.56
Geoff
Well Craig Rowland ralands Pipe Roland david.

20:20.22
Devin
Yeah, it is. It’s ah Craig Craig Roland. Ah yeah, who knows how they say that in blackfoot but Craig Roland was the sheriff and.

20:29.26
Geoff
Um, and he is not a treasure of an individual beyond measure. It was not a pleasure having this experience.

20:37.51
Devin
So anyway, yes ah people behaving badly mormons behaving badly this week I thought was an interesting story I’m glad you found that 1

20:45.55
Geoff
That’s kind of a oh well. Thank you? Thank you very much I’m happy to provide so here’s some of the bigger news that’s come out this week quietly tucked away in the November issue of the leah ho almost of the enign of the leah hona. There’s a little blurb in the back and it seems the church by the way is now following up on this more I’ve seen 2 official communiques about it come through the system which always reminds me that whenever I’m released from my calling I’m going to Miss having access to all the official communiques that I currently do but someday that will end and I will be very sad. So. These final little pages of the issue had some interesting changes about how temple recommends are going to be issued so starting back in October there were leaders in selected stakes pilot stakes I have no idea where they are have been allowed to issue temple recommends except those for living ordinances. So meaning your your own endowment your own ceiling and they’re able to do so using leader and clerk. Resources lcr the the the long gestating replacement for mls which was the local machine only software to do all things clerical for the church. Anybody who’s been in a clerk or other capacity in previous years has known that when I was an elders corps and president i. Didn’t have lcr updated on that level yet and so I had to go change home teaching assignments at the 1 you know I had to go to the church and use the 1 computer to do it so lcr has been a fabulous upgrade for all sorts of these things and now leaders can print temple recommends from lcr that’ll that’s huge because. You know your bishop usually has that binder with the carbon copy paper and he tears it out and all that but they can also apply a digital signature to it if they want to and so to physically sign it. They can still print 1 and physical and physically sign it if they want to but they can issue 1 and digitally sign it and and to pass it along and move it on its way I think this is great. I think it also like it’s great. They’re doing this There’s the cynical part of me is like this would have been super useful eighteen months ago when I think now we’re settling into a bit more of a normal rhythm because I mean I think we had to renew our recommend during the pandemic and there was literally like okay meet with us on zoom.

22:39.32
Devin
Um, yeah through this.

22:50.47
Geoff
Then we’re gonna mail you The recommend we have signed can you sign it then mail it back to the bishop then he’s gonna mail it to the state presidency member then they’re going to interview then they’ll mail it back to you and like like that’s what we were doing because we were not interacting physically at all. So yeah, but you make it through and life goes on and that’s okay so.

23:00.17
Devin
Yeah,, that’s that’s crazy. That’s crazy. But so here’s the question I have having looked at this. It isn’t clear to me Whether. At the end of the day if the state president chooses to digitally sign. Do you walk away with a piece of paper that looks like a recommend and if not what do you use when you get to the temple.

23:24.16
Geoff
So well I think they digital designed but you still print the recommend itself I think you still print you still print it from lcr. Whatever version it is.

23:26.62
Devin
Still print. That’s yeah, that’s what I assumed but it’s interesting. You know the article mentioned that the church thinks that the digital signature is more secure and.

23:41.48
Geoff
And I saw that because.

23:45.93
Devin
I was trying to figure out in what way that would be the case that it would be more secure and it seemed to me only if it remains digital would that be true. So I wonder if we’re moving in the direction of ah ah, an app that will.

23:53.20
Geoff
If it stayed Digital. Oh I think we have to be how could it not eventually be included in in tools. For example, for example to have that as part of your profile and I saw that too about it being more secure I don’t know what that does it mean that the digital signature is not simply you know well like a.

24:05.41
Devin
Lds tools or something. Yeah.

24:17.30
Geoff
Transparent P and G of their signature. It’s applied to it is it actually something more like when you digitally sign a document in an acrobat for example and it has this coded signature or is it a digital signature something that.

24:22.13
Devin
Yeah.

24:29.27
Geoff
That also includes some kind of a qr or barcode that is a unique identifier and so that’s why people at the temple would look at it and and have a way to verify this was done on the level by you know a set apart figure who can do this as opposed to somebody who’s just forging a signature for example, but I.

24:34.47
Devin
Um, yeah. Um, President smith yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:47.50
Geoff
I don’t have any more information beyond that I don’t know um the other interesting update for it is. We’re getting rid of the phrase limited use. Recommend I imagine we’ve seen over the past couple of years other terms have gone out the window like investigator. We’re not really supposed to say anymore they haven’t announced it but they updated preach my gospel to reflect that. Ah, less active is not a term anymore. He’s supposed to call that a returning member for example, so initially when this dropped they had not revealed what you would call the limited use recommend which is really just describing what it is. It’s a recommend that limits what you can do and that you can only do specific activities. There hadn’t said what it was. Ah, however, based in 1 of those letters that just came out. They didn’t say this is what you call it. But this is what they did call it in the letter they dubbed instead of saying they said don’t call it limited use recommends and they call them now recommends for proxy baptisms and confirmations very so longer. I mean that literally means if someone’s calling you up and they say can I get our recommend for proxy baptisms and confirmations. Ah I mean it’s less succinct but that goes along with them telling us. We should tell people. We’re not mormons but we are members of the restored church of the of you know it’s all longhand now. So I guess we’re just going to go along with it.

26:01.98
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:03.51
Geoff
An issue recommends for proxy baptisms and confirmations. That’s that’s the name of that recommend now and I guess the other 1 ne’s just called a temple recommend or can we call that 1 a recommend for initiatories endowments and ceilings both for yourself or on behalf of others.

26:18.16
Devin
Ah, yeah I don’t know that’s that’s interesting, but you know as we think about temples 1 of the things that came up this week that caught me a little off guard. You told me that you had you were aware this was going to happen. But you know the the North visitor center on temple square. In Salt lake is the home of the christus that has become kind of the church. Let’s not call it a logo but that’s what it is the church. Not not a logo is an image of the christus statue that has been in the North visitor center of course based on.

26:38.62
Geoff
Yeah, yeah.

26:55.82
Devin
A danish sculpture that’s identical that was the the the original um done hundred and 50 years ago yes yes that 1 excellent.

27:01.26
Geoff
Yeah, the 1 that is in the the the thorvaulds in scripture or sculpture that’s in the church of our lady in copenhagen. Yes.

27:11.83
Devin
Which I’ve seen I’m I’m proud to have been there to see that and it it is amazing to see the original but the the place where it was held in the North visitor center was really spectacular I thought it was really moving and and so I had not picked up on the fact that that was going away now. Of course they’ve removed the statue that’s being guarded and will be. And captain. It’ll be returned somewhere ah in in use. but but yeah the North visitor center has been torn down this week I don’t know if it’s complete, but it’s it’s coming down right now and that building is going to be gone in a sort of a garden. Outdoor area of quiet reflection will be established preserving a great sightline of the temple from the northwest area of town. So it. It’s ah I was surprised but I you know, not bad news but I was surprised by that.

28:01.27
Geoff
Yeah, now did you stumble upon this as a news article or were you traipsing around downtown and you’re like ah why is there a why is there some heavy machinery. Do you tell us. But.

28:09.72
Devin
Yeah I I lived I lived 3 blocks from there and I run by there regularly but I had not seen I had not seen that happening I got it from the news.

28:23.96
Geoff
Oh well, that’s at least better I mean it might have been shocking if you were on a run and you just see them tearing down the f center like what’s happening. Yeah, and like you said I believe that the plans for it are I think I was looking at some of the original releases about this. It was back in like June when they talked about this. Yeah they wanted to make contemplative spaces and provide a direct.

28:27.75
Devin
Yeah, it’s good. Yeah.

28:43.81
Geoff
And clear view of the Salt lake temple and I’m sure I’m sure we talked about this a bit on the podcast at the time and that’s a big focus right now for all of these projects around temple square you know they tore down the fountain between the office building and the administration building specifically so that it’s not blocking a view of the of the east face of the temple you know they want to enhance all the sightlines to the temple. Um, which is interesting I don’t know if that also means like what are they going to do with the walls around temple square we know in some parts at least on the Salt lake temple side. They want to make it fencing so it’s. Seems less of like a walled garden kind of thing you know, but you know more see-through I don’t know if that’s going to expand around all of temple square eventually. So. There’s clean lines to see this I remember out I’m having a lot of memories now of like yeah if you’re outside temple square on the side where the visitor center is on that like north.

29:16.73
Devin
Ah.

29:34.99
Devin
Um.

29:35.30
Geoff
West corner. You know if you’re over on the side where the driveway goes down to go underneath the conference center. Yeah, you can’t really see the temple very well. It’s just you see walls and buildings and stuff like that so they want to give that a clear line of sight. But but no visitor centers is weird, no visitors just where do you congregate.

29:43.25
Devin
Yeah, yeah, what are the interest. Yeah yeah I think they’re good. Essentially what this must mean is that the Joseph Smith Memorial building the old Yeah Hotel Utah will essentially become the.

30:01.69
Geoff
Yeah, so.

30:02.48
Devin
Visitor Center That’s the only way this is going to work but the interesting thing that I have seen that I don’t remember much discussion about is that they have stripped off and torn down big chunks of what we used to think of as the temple, the old Chapel. And some of the ceiling rooms that were added to the temple after the original construction are gone. Yeah yeah, So the temple has been reduced to its original size at this point now I don’t know what they’re going to add back on I’m not I’m not that dialed in. But but.

30:20.56
Geoff
So oh the ones the ones on the the ones on the on the north side of it right? Yeah, yeah, those are got. Yeah yeah.

30:38.25
Devin
You know from my runs I see it’s now it looks like it did in 1896

30:41.83
Geoff
Can you see like down in the pit and stuff when you’re running around. You actually get a good.

30:45.99
Devin
Um, yeah I think there are angles where it’s some stuff can be seen. Yeah yeah, you can see some of the work that’s going on and I I’m running and so I’m too lazy to stop and check it out. But so I just see what I can kind of see as I trot on by is my.

31:02.71
Geoff
I know that yeah I mean I know they’re doing quite a bit to it and you mentioned the ceiling rooms I’m trying to remember some of the old articles. 1 of the cool things I know the desk where they’re gonna check your recommend. That’s all gonna be subterranean now because they’ve torn out. They’ve torn out the old annex the old chapel like you mentioned and they’re gonna have these windows above you. So when you’re.

31:05.30
Devin
Pattern.

31:21.64
Geoff
Checking checking into the recommend desk. The temple itself will be a level up kind of looming over the window. It’ll have 2 baptist trees as we know and which is now like a new thing for a bunch of utah that’s a whole other topic but it’s ah crazy stuff. They’re doing in utah.

31:37.77
Devin
Yeah, yeah, very interesting stuff. Very interesting stuff.

31:39.49
Geoff
And oh man.

31:42.83
Geoff
Well, ah this week they we dropped the new campaign for christmas folks I know we’ve kind of settled in on light the world years ago if you remember the christmas campaign at a different hashtag different thing every year light the world clearly. Struck the right chord and they’ve gone back to it every year we talked about a couple weeks ago. The giving machines are back and they’re back online in a handful of locations or they’re going to be coming online in a handful of locations around the United states so the only difference this year is now the campaign is called light the world with love. Don’t just light. It. Light it with love and it’s focusing specifically on like on what you can do to demonstrate love towards others and you would think light the world itself might encompass that but they’re really leaning on that angle I think that’s sorely needed in our day and age especially here in the us right now and that’s terrific.

32:33.68
Devin
I Think it’s a global problem. It’s a global problem. Yeah.

32:38.90
Geoff
It is but I guess like for us, you know I mean like it’s it’s been hard as a side note like the Halifax security forum was this past weekend which is where global leaders from democracies get together and talk about how to make democracy better and not slide into authoritarianism and. People kind of chided the us because they were like you guys can’t really like lead out on this like you used to and they’re like yeah okay, all right? That’s fair. So these are concernts but 1 thing I love this year really simple there’s a lot of good There’s a great video that accompanies it shows a family helping a child in the hospital really moving.

32:59.86
Devin
Um, yes, yeah yeah.

33:14.65
Geoff
But they also have calendars that you can follow a daily service calendar with daily service ideas starting on November thirtieth running through Christmas day. There’s great ideas there I really think if you were to print that out. However, and follow it and let it kind of guide you during those days. It’ll make a ah measured difference in your day and then the lives of others around you. So I absolutely do it I’m going to challenge myself to do that and but they’ve also made new for this year a separate children’s calendar to give like to challenge your kids in certain ways and this is something I love I mean it starts and the kids calendar also has a bit of a paint by numbers. So as you work your way through all of the the numbers for the date. You can then go paint in those different cells and the paint by numbers and it’s a nativity scene. So when you get to christmas day. It’ll all be filled in but this is great I mean it talks about how you can write down or draw 3 things you love about each person in your family hang this list for your family to see. How has a wise man or a woman blessed you thank them for their help. Um, watch the video of the Christ child which I think is 1 of the greatest videos the church has ever produced and enjoy it. The kids want is dynamite I love that they people don’t like to call it programming but I love that they are doing this kind of programming and putting opportunities there specifically for the kids.

34:26.80
Devin
Yeah, well I do love the I Love this great edition of the tag with love and because in Utah The the application of the old ah message.

34:28.85
Geoff
That’s great because.

34:44.28
Devin
Was simply a testimony right? and so you had a million mormons in utah posting. Ah you know messages of testimony and their friends on Facebook getting kind of ah, obliterated feeling left out and it became sort of a political thing. But. Sharing love is something no 1 gets tired of right? No 1 gets tired of being treated kindly. No 1 gets treated no 1 gets tired of being loved.

35:06.50
Geoff
Go.

35:18.80
Geoff
Amen? um and real quick. Also we’re coming up on the first anniversary of the church news published an article speaking of campaigns that we’re doing of the hashtag give thanks! That’s when President nelson a year ago encouraged us to. Spend this thanksgiving time giving thanks and posting about it and I but I don’t remember the exact words where it was basically smother the world in gratitude you know flood the world with gratitude and I thought it was awesome. This retrospective of the church news. Goes into some anecdotes stories ah of what people experienced during this time and how going out of their way to give thanks helped them a lot like there’s 1 woman named Nancy ah medell in Salt lake city her husband died in 2020 after a long battle with cancer and she said like that you know I it was a hard grief filled year with all kinds of newness I did not want to. Or desire to embrace that I was challenged to be grateful for something anything I could and my attitude softly gently in a way I could embrace change my thinking every morning anyways. Good to read this retrospective I’m almost sad. We’re not just doing this 1 again as well. But I wouldn’t want it to be rote I think we are in a a raw place emotionally as a country and as ah as a world last thanksgiving compared to this thanksgiving for example, so cool to go back and read that if you want to ah, follow up on what happened with give thanks and you know what. Why not? It’s still the week of thanksgiving in the us you could still do some gift Thanks folks people start doing it I bet if you go and start doing some social feeds and do hashtag givethanks people will just think it’s a thing once more it’ll happen serious. So.

36:46.92
Devin
That’s right? Well it will indeed well indeed you know 1 of the things that I love that you picked up this week Geoff is there are a couple of examples of the church sharing stories of saints getting out and. Ah, doing relief efforts for afghan refugees and you know this is a really politically fraught space but there is this great safe point in the middle of all of this and that is whether you’re not you want.

37:08.52
Geoff
Mm.

37:23.45
Devin
Those humans here in the united states once they’re here. There is no excuse for not loving them and caring for them and so it’s great to see the church celebrating the units the wards. The projects that are doing that. Our ward has a great history of helping refugees I’m hoping we’ll get involved in that too as the refugees there are about 7 hundred afghan refugees headed our way I’m hoping we’ll get involved with that. But it’s ah, an incredibly important effort that I hope will completely. Circumvent the politics and allow us just to to love and serve.

38:04.84
Geoff
Um, it’s ah 1 of the stories you’re referencing here has happened in Northern virginia where I live you know in the in the d c suburbs and you know I’ve I wouldn’t say we’ve been my family super actively directly engaged with it. But we’ve been acutely aware of the effort.

38:09.75
Devin
Yeah, it’s right.

38:22.64
Geoff
Ah, surrounding this I mean it’s ah a stake neighboring all the stakes have been involved but the stake neighboring our stake has been 1 of the sort of center stakes that’s been organizing a lot of this effort and it’s been great to see you’ve seen our state release society president posting multiple times a week saying here’s what we need for this this this this this. We’ve got this assignment coming up to do this this this and this. Um, I’m super grateful for it. I. The only thing I wish is not that anyone would deal with being a displaced person. There’s you know, but roughly 80 million people in the world who are displaced persons which is just horrific I just hope we can give voice to the other ones that are outside of. You know, massive news like the the messy afghanistan withdrawal that got this in the headlines and made us think about it and made us want to be more involved much more overtly. Let’s let’s use our resources and also be aware of the many others who might not make the headlines who are in similar situations and you know carry this. This good thing forward so we don’t talk about afghan refugees. Let’s talk about how we’re helping wigur refugees or refugees from Latin american countries are all over the place. But it’s wonderful. We’re doing this it’ doing great to too.

39:20.17
Devin
Um, yeah, or yeah and the Asylum seekers from Guatemala and and and el salvador and nicaragua yeah, we got a lot of people.

39:30.80
Geoff
I like the way you said it I like the way you said it though Devin is we can remove ourselves from the politics of it and like you know, like right? It’s fine like anyone should have justified concerns about Border security and and the integrity of your country. That’s totally fine, but we could set all of that aside and say you know what. Bottom line is if they’re here in our country they are here and they are our responsibility as god’s children and we as people who have the resources to look after them and I think that’s a great way to look at it and just totally set aside all the rest of it of how of how anyone even got here and just recognize that they are here.

39:53.39
Devin
Yeah.

40:04.57
Geoff
And that is the reality we’re in full stop.

40:06.87
Devin
Yep fo well said well said Geoff.

40:09.13
Geoff
Well thank you, thank you? very very much ah Devin do you want to know what the church has actually said about garments.

40:16.82
Devin
Ah I think they told us to wear them. Yeah.

40:21.39
Geoff
That’s my understanding as well is to wear them. Yes, um, at a side note by the way I was once looking for pictures of I’ve seen this image they use of this woman staring at garments in the store. There are very few official pictures. The church has of garments that you can use in this sense. There are the official ones they’ve put out with those videos showing them off more It’s something thing is good but when you’re writing an article about garments. It makes you feel uncomfortable like I don’t want to make this my header image. You know you’re trying to still be respectful about it. So I’m just calling on the church to make more pictures of. Distribution centers and the garment buying experience something where we can know what we’re looking at without potentially veering into vein repetitions or being disrespectful of the garment itself. That’s just if anyone’s listening. That’s what I want to give to you so this is an lds living article. What the church has actually said about wearing temple garments talks a little bit about the history of wearing garments why we wear garments the purpose of them. They quote some conference people. They quote some older material that might be a little more outdated but like this first presidency letter from 19 seventy four for example, not saying it’s. Not legitimate because of that’s just you know I mean you know, but we know what the most recent stuff I do think it gets on some of the main points when it does talk about the where’s that what the handbook says and then there’s also you know a first presidency letter from october twenty nineteen.

41:30.34
Devin
Yeah.

41:48.38
Geoff
And that’s so they just remind you the crux of it folks. Sometimes there’s a debate about these things but the garment’s a reminder of the covenants We. We making our temple and we should wear it properly. The question for many has been what does properly mean and um as they make a point here. You know the the garment. Gospel Topics article says should not be removed for activities that can reasonably be done while wearing the garment and should not be modified to accommodate different styles of clothing for me I think that’s pretty clear I appreciate though that a Lds livings article their copy What Lds living is saying they say reasonably be done. Ah, is a matter of personal agency and thought and prayer which I think is very important I know it works for me I read that and I say yeah I can do most of my stuff keeping my garments I don’t if I take them off just because I’m complaining I’m sweating. That’s just because I’m complaining I might be sweating right? That’s not necessarily the reason. Um and that’s for me. So you all do you and let’s all not judge each other at least about that I think you can be a very judgedgy about modifying the garment to fit certain clothing. Am I right? or am I right people then it’s painfully obvious. It’s like hell I you know much I saw it on my I don’t like honestly carro.

42:46.55
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

43:02.48
Geoff
My mission in Spain I saw so frequently women active active members and everything and everything who would want to wear sleeveless shirts not cap sleeves sleeveless and they just kind of roll the capped sleeve I don’t and don’t but I don’t envy women for didn’t deal with.

43:10.85
Devin
A.

43:18.30
Devin
Yeah.

43:20.50
Geoff
All of this and the pressures of society for how you like I wear a shirt and a tie. It’s really easy for I don’t envy women. You guys have enough on your plate but they would like roll it up kind of inside so it wouldn’t hang out from this sleeveless shirt but it just made it funnier because you can see kind of like this poof of rolled up textile.

43:25.20
Devin
Now.

43:34.76
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah, well I yeah I think you’re wise to I think you’re wise to ah remember your good counsel to ah.

43:38.92
Geoff
Sitting there I saw this like all the time but it kind of just cracked me off I Love the effort but it made it more obvious.

43:52.31
Devin
Not judge our fellow members. Ah, because yeah, our the sisters in the church face so much pressure that we brother and do not you know, just incredible. You know the and yeah, they just face pressure. We don’t.

44:06.73
Geoff
So Devin hot take hot take hot take from you from some of the things I’ve seen. Do you do? How do you feel about those who would argue primarily primarily women in my experience and this is not a value of judgment 1 or the other but who would argue the garment is a tool of patriarchal oppression.

44:11.82
Devin
Yeah.

44:25.38
Devin
Oh that’s an interesting. Yeah yeah I am yeah I think of the temple the temple garment as being a fairly effective. Um.

44:25.69
Geoff
Particularly for women based on what it requires what it requires of them in terms of of fashion and and such and but.

44:45.57
Devin
Reminder of our temple covenants and I think it’s important in that regard and over my lifetime I’ve seen a pretty dramatic shift in the way we talk about temple garments which is why I think it’s interesting that in 2021, we’re quoting something written in one seventy four because there has been a big change when when I was a kid the talk of temple garments was their magical superpowers I’m sorry I I was there right? and and we talked about how.

45:16.16
Geoff
The.

45:20.54
Devin
You know you you jump into a River and you float down and nothing happens to your body under the temple garment part but you know your head is smashed and you’re dead but your body’s fine where you had temple garments I mean stories like that were common and yeah I mean you know the.

45:33.76
Geoff
You can walk through Napal yeah you know? Ah, yeah, yeah, no.

45:39.80
Devin
But that was kind of the feeling is that they were a protection and it was a physical armor right? and so that’s why Missionaries got it and that whole dialogue was there. That’s really faded right today we talk about it I think much more appropriately as a reminder of our temple covenants. Um, so. Then I guess that would ask is if you view the temple covenants as being a ah you know part of the patriarchy to oppress women then certainly the garments are if the temple covenants are not if you see them as something else then of course the garments are not so that’s how that’s how I would answer that. Ah, and I don’t think of the temple covenants as ah, essentially as a yeah ah tool of the patriarchy but you know the language has changed over the years and there are some things I suspect I and some other women kind of hope will change too and. In the future and I don’t see the the temple covenants the temple ordinances being perfect. They’re just what we have now if we saw them as perfect 5 years ago it’s only changed twice in the last five years. So I mean. I think we’ve got to recognize that they are good. They’re right Um, and we have faith that when we do the work under the language that we currently have that the Lord recognizes that and that I don’t think. We teach or believe that they are word for word, perfect and can’t ever be changed.

47:13.18
Geoff
There you go? Okay, thank you devin.

47:18.16
Devin
Yeah, for what it’s worth for what it’s worth. Um, you know you you tagged something that I saw you tagged what you saw on Facebook I I saw a similar post from Richard osler on on Twitter and he really made an interesting interesting point. Um, that I think Bears repeating and I’m so I’m glad you you tagged it for us to talk about today but on social media richard ostler shared a thought with friends about protecting religious freedoms. And he notes that ah sometimes we talk about ah a ah group of people. You know they are coming after our religious freedoms and richard is. Ah, probably 1 of the most effective lgbtq allies in the church right and so he’s pointing out that when we say they that many people understand. That to mean a reference to Lgbt q people including those in the church and when they when our lgbtq friends and family members hear us talk about the they that they may interpret as being. Them they feel like they’re being ostracized in the very meeting they wish to join and be a part of and feel welcome in and to and by and you know that is really an important message and he has this great quote in his post that you shared with me and. I apologize for kind of stealing this 1 I’m eager to hear your comments Geoff but this quote from bene brown not often quoted in church but Berne brown has said common enemy intimacy kind of a defined term here is the opposite of true belonging if the bond.

49:08.32
Geoff
No, you’re fine. You’re good. You’re you’re good.

49:26.38
Devin
With others is simply that we hate the same people the intimacy we experience is intense immediately gratifying and an easy way to discharge outrage and pain. It is not however, fuel for real connection and and I will say having been in politics the last couple of years I can tell you that. That in politics we use that that concept of common common enemy intimacy a lot and I would say far too much even in politics but it has no place in Church. And and what he’s pointing out is that when we use a mystery they our lgbtq friends and family members feel like we are talking about them and that they are the enemy and so when you talk about protecting religious freedom. His point is you need to say who we are protecting religious freedom from and in what way and because generally speaking ah the lgb 2 community is not coming after our religious freedom.

50:36.38
Geoff
And now some of course might argue that they are because there’s there’s the quote unquote gay agenda right? you know and they are. They’re coming after our Freedom. We can’t worship the same way we used to right? It’s ah you know which. There was probably a time in my life when I kind of believed that and I think I was less just less informed and less up on a lot of a lot of these things but you know prop 8 back in California made me deeply uncomfortable I thought it drew a lot of wedges. Between us and the community and even between our families and for for what it stood for and the church even recognizes that like we don’t there’s not newsroom articles about that. But the church recognizes that I’ve done enough talking and researching and knowing it’s secondhand but knowing people who have known people. And seeing the outreach efforts they’ve done after the fact when they send guys like Marlon jensen to sort of do damage control in the Bay area later on prop 8 hurt the church a lot and that’s why I think we have not gotten involved in similar fights since then. We’ve stressed the importance of trying to find balance in these things I mean know the famous utah compact you know, trying to balance the very real needs and and civil rights of Lgbt hugh saints you know President oakes was talking about that last week in charlottesville that like no, that’s like. That and religious freedom are equally issued are equal issues. They are equally important. It is. It is extremely valuable. We protect people’s freedoms, not necessarily the expense ah of the other you know 1 or the other. So anyways, yeah, I’m happy that you. Want to read this I love richard osler and by the way folks if we interviewed him earlier in the year january or February of this year so if you go to This Week in Mormons dot com or scroll down you know forty odd episodes through the podcast feed. What? what? a wonderful man in a thoughtful interview and I love because his experiences have come from his experience being a ysa bishop. And in counseling with the members of his flock at the time which opened his eyes up to a lot of things and it’s sad because I see people who have review bombed his books at desret book. For example, you know that he’s and that he is an enemy of the church which I don’t think is the case I think his entire his entire message is to.

52:52.20
Devin
No.

52:56.10
Geoff
Like he says listen learn Love just talk to people and understand their needs and don’t vilify them and don’t look for that enemy like you were saying Devin I mean it’s It’s true. It’s easy to have an enemy common enemies make us feel better common enemies give us something to rally around you know, but.

53:02.50
Devin
Um, yeah, oh yes.

53:12.67
Geoff
Like you said it might work in politics but it doesn’t work in God’s Kingdom to do that and it’s and it’s not easy like it’s not easy being an lgbtq latter-day saint and it hasn’t been easy I Think for the church to find its footing and figure out the best way to approach a lot of these issues. But I think we’re I think the church is improving I think a lot of those relationships are Improving. Don’t think it’s what everyone wants it to be in every way but it’s ah it’s hopefully evolving quite a bit I Hope we can also program our brains in that same way it’s It’s even a bigger discussion about the whole concept of you know the world quote unquote which is something I don’t adore as far as how we.

53:38.39
Devin
You know.

53:44.93
Devin
Right.

53:51.62
Geoff
Like what is the world and what does that even mean I know a lot of good people in the world I know plenty of people in the world who are better christians than latter-day saints right? like because we run the gamut too. We don’t have a monopoly on goodness in our church We we might say we have the market cornered on having the.

53:53.63
Devin
Um, yeah, right right.

54:08.65
Geoff
Restored priesthood authority on the Earth and access to all the saving ordinances and the authority to perform them. But we do not have the market cornered on just being good people.

54:13.90
Devin
And maybe the best recipes for fuel funeral potatoes I’m not sure that might also be ours to claim. But no, they’re no worse bizarre than anybody else’s but they are.

54:20.62
Geoff
Hopefully that? Yeah, we also have the market cornered on Bizarre food traditions which are born out of which arere born out of I don’t know what I don’t know what it’s ah it’s a fun anthropological study. But um.

54:29.83
Devin
As interesting as anyone else’s aren’t they Yeah yeah.

54:36.49
Geoff
And was I yeah, this was just a simple post by Richard ostel but I thought it was good food for thought good reminder like like it’s too easy to be make throwaway statements and not realize who we might be hurting in the process as we’re wondering about the people who are taking away our freedoms and I don’t think they are take people who believe in lg b 2 q writes.

54:38.75
Devin
Um, yeah.

54:51.29
Devin
Um, yeah.

54:56.28
Geoff
I don’t think they’re taking away our religious liberty I don’t think there’s anything that’s shown that I mean we’re already 6 years removed from ah oberfell or whatever I mean gay marriage has been legal in the us for 6 a half years I don’t think it’s impaired my freedom to worship in any way whatsoever. Not that I’ve seen you know, not that something stuff.

55:09.40
Devin
Right? right? agree. Yeah I agree.

55:14.67
Geoff
So could go sideways at some point but I have not seen anything that would suggest that I think my freedom to worship is far more threatened by other things like authoritarianism and things like that should be a major concern. But anyway you asked for my opinion Devin and I gave it to you.

55:27.18
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah, no thank you for sharing you did. Thank you. Thank you and.

55:34.60
Geoff
Um, real quick in our waning moments here. We always wind up with plenty of stuff to talk about cool article here by tad walsh over at desret news. He says why President nelson is assigning an unprecedented number of apostles to dedicate temples and I admit I’d kind of. Noticed a bit that a lot of the 12 were going around dedicating temples and I wasn’t sure if it was just covid related like it’s just the let the younger guys go and travel and do these things we also haven’t had. We’ve only had 2 temple dedications since covid and they only happened in the past couple of weeks for example, but no, this is a deliberate effort by. President nelson to be more inclusive traditionally as you’ve seen for years. Usually it’s a member of the first presidency who’s dedicated to temple with occasional exceptions I’d say over the past decent stretch of history. Not a slam dunk but more or less something along those lines. Um, however. Dedicating temples during president nelson’s administration. You’ve got President nelson did 1 in chile and he also dedicated the 1 in Rome I think rome was like 1 of the few instances where you know we knew that was kind of a marquee experience as far as temple dedications and we’re like yeah we’re sending in. Ever we sent up. They said everybody there the entire 15 of them were there but that 1 they did for President nelson because you know it’s rome like yeah, we’re gonna do that. Okay, no offense to the fine people of of of lynden utah but you’re not rome. Okay, so.

56:59.15
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

57:03.30
Geoff
But pool see I mean you’ got president oakton 1 in columbia but el rendlin did the 1 in the d rc that’s meaningful for him because he’s spent time in Africa elder sowarre has dedicated temples in Brazil and peru um, you know elder bednar did the 1 in haiti which actually surprises me I always thought el anderson would maybe do 1 in haiti but hey whatever you know at least because he’s a francophile fracophone.

57:20.73
Devin
Um, you know.

57:22.87
Geoff
Ah, Anderson did the 1 in portugal rasband did the 1 in durbin elbert gong got to do man of Manitoba president ballard just did pocateel recently. But I love that President nelson has said no this is like a legit thing I’m doing to spread the wealth around his quote is just pure. Love. And I’m so happy he says have you ever been a father. He’s and he’s talking about um elder suarez being the first latin american apostle dedicating the temples in Brazil and peru and the elder president nelson said have you ever been a father taking the children on a fishing trip. Are you happy catching fish. Are you happy or watching your children catch fish. I get more joy out of the fact ulysses soar has dedicated the fort leza temple than if I’d done it I really do I’m so happy he’s had that experience I I don’t know I’m just full of love for that I love that he’s just saying this is way more meaningful for him to do than it would ever be for me.

58:10.59
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

58:12.64
Geoff
And the lord at the end of the day probably doesn’t care who’s dedicating the temple as long as it’s someone with the proper authority right? So bully for them I will bet you however my next paycheck that when the Bentonville arkansas temple is dedicated elder bed nar will be the 1 too dedicated I have 1000 percent

58:31.13
Devin
Okay, I’ll remember that when that happens. Okay yes I want to just mention as we wrap up that just a follow up piece. You know, 2 years ago

58:31.86
Geoff
Ah, surety that that will be the case. So Anyways, that that’s cool I Love this? Okay, bring it bring it. Right.

58:49.20
Devin
Ah, the university of wyoming apologized to the fourteen black players who were kicked off the team for expressing a desire to wear black arm bands in protest when they played byu ah back in 19135 ah, course that precedes the end of the ban on blacks and the priesthood and of course ah these black players wanted to protest that which seems reasonable but the university of wyoming. Ah, to keep friends with byu kicked them off and so the church has worked with them to kind of mend fences and so the relationship between the university and the church and these 14 black players has been really restored and.

59:33.68
Geoff
Um.

59:43.26
Devin
2 years ago there was a formal apology by the university and and they’ve begun an annual tradition of the food. The church donating food that the university and these 14 players helped to distribute and organize and so that happened again this year and it was great to see that tradition. Ah, continuing and and continuing that effort to mend fences from some painful history.

01:00:07.31
Geoff
Now I’m glad that they’re all about it. Well folks I think that I’ll do it this week unless there’s any of any other ones you want to hit on. You know we had a big indexathon in new zealand lots of indexing very exciting anyways.

01:00:22.18
Devin
Yep, and Covid is making us mean to each other yes and I thought it was funny. That’s yeah so someone wrote an article I won’t name her but someone wrote an article that basically said that people who don’t do it the way I do it are.

01:00:24.53
Geoff
Get out hard hitting news from Devin people.

01:00:39.22
Devin
Horrible and mean and I thought the article was horrible and mean and so I just agreed with her thesis that in fact, yes, Covid is making us horrible and mean and it’s hard I have real sympathy we got into it in our Sunday school class this week

01:00:55.67
Geoff
Did you.

01:00:58.83
Devin
And yeah, it was a painful discussion a little bit and you know I think a lot of us sat on our hands and bit our tongues and and we tolerated some really.

01:01:07.85
Geoff
Was that did was your lesson on like sections 1 68 it was talking about the role. The role was it the role of government but yours devolved into the role of government should not be to yeah yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

01:01:12.86
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the lesson. Yes, yeah, So there was an argument about masks as part of that discussion and it didn’t get carried away. Thankfully the you know the people in the class and the teacher did a good job of not going down that rabbit hole too far. But. You know it was just a reminder that people are really wound up about that.

01:01:37.52
Geoff
Ours was interesting in the same lesson we didn’t we thankfully we didn’t go anywhere near Covid stuff I Just thought it was fun to talk about kind of the role of government in this gospel context I teased our teacher before it started who’s a friend of mine who’s an ardent libertarian A very learned Libertarian is a constitutional lawyer. Nicest guy in the world. Um.

01:01:44.14
Devin
F.

01:01:53.88
Geoff
And I was just like so I saw him write the question like what what is god view like the role of government to be and I was like are you just going to stand here and tell us it’s nothing like the role of government is there is no role get out government. No but I thought that was I’m glad you bought the whole lesson up because I got a lot out of our lesson on sunday.

01:02:00.70
Devin
Ah.

01:02:08.44
Devin
Yeah.

01:02:10.67
Geoff
On that topic realizing the main thing God Cares about is a government that gives us our agency to worship as we may and make choices as we may there are many countries where people do not have such agency and.

01:02:14.55
Devin
App.

01:02:19.92
Devin
Yeah, but you know 1 of the things that came up in our Sunday school class was the fact that the church sort of at that time had had this sort of tacit approval of slavery which of course did not provide for.

01:02:33.69
Geoff
Clear.

01:02:36.66
Devin
Ah, those writes and and the the scripture 1 34 is full of references to personal property and and and when you read that in you know as a nineteen thirty four or nineteen forty or excuse me 18 forty context you go oh wait a minute. At least some of the personal property. They’re talking about is human beings. Ah, and so this is it’s a messed up difficult to read chapter or section if you are an african american or have great empathy for african americans and the church’s history with them.

01:02:56.24
Geoff
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:14.30
Devin
Ah, so not that that makes it easy and it doesn’t mean it’s not scripture but 1 of the great things that was pointed out is that section 1 34 did not purport to be revelation. It was a declaration of understood principles. It was not ah. Explicitly a revelatory document like so many from Joseph smith where he’s writing down the the mind and will of the Lord this was the mind and will of the church government for posterity recorded for Posterity. So. It’s a little different in that regard.

01:03:44.41
Geoff
Yeah, and if I remember 1 33 was was written to be kind of ah like a wrap up coda for the book of commandments wasn’t it also kind of in this same vein. Yeah so I thought it was a good lesson I was surprised I was worried given the subject matter could devolve into.

01:03:52.34
Devin
Um, yeah.

01:04:00.51
Devin
Yeah, yeah, it was.

01:04:01.27
Geoff
Perhaps what you had or you know or or a giant just like hagg a graphic party about the founding fathers where everyone in the class holds up their picture of the Prayer Valley Forge which never happened and you know gets all excited about that. So I like that some people noted there was like like cause they were talking about. You know.

01:04:09.62
Devin
Um, yeah.

01:04:19.39
Geoff
Founding fathers and all the great things they did and this woman raised her hand and was just like yeah just remember all of this only applied to white men who owned land like it was good at the time but let’s not pretend. It was so.

01:04:26.80
Devin
Right? Yeah, yeah, so 1 of the things that I like to I’ve been reminded of this past year or so as I’ve thought about a lot of this stuff is that when the constitution talks about protecting the rights of the minority. Minority they had in mind was white elite men that was the minority whose rights were to be protected because they knew that white educated rich wealthy men.

01:04:47.78
Geoff
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:00.28
Devin
Would always be a minority in the country and their power needed to be protected so that they could benevolently looked after everyone else and their best interests because that they knew best and it’s a little bit scary when you kind of realize that’s a lot of what. Hamilton Geofferson and washington had in mind explicitly or implicitly as they were thinking about how to operate the government and today we have a much more even most republicans ah in the church have a much more egalitarian philosophy. Ah, than our founding fathers did at the time they wrote the constitution.

01:05:37.69
Geoff
Is Devin right? listeners sound off constitutional people. Want to hear your hot takes about this issue you can of course send me an email contact at this week of mormons dot com please let devin know you can find Devin thorpe at my my solarlife dot net.

01:05:43.94
Devin
Yeah, no one’ll have any feedback for you on that I may never be allowed back.

01:05:56.44
Devin
Ah, yeah, yeah, probably so like that.

01:05:57.68
Geoff
Are you? It’s probably it’s probably gonna be a r u website by time we’re done. Um, no, but but for real folks if you you know, send us your feedback contact to this week at mormons dot com you can comment on this post on Facebook or elsewhere or stream the post on This Week in Mormons we encourage you to leave a review wherever you get your podcast. It helps against algorithms and makes me feel spiffy beyond that join us on the social media channels and of course huge thanks to our patreon supporters for everything you guys do to help keep this show going which is not freely produced but freely given that sounds very spiritual. But. But you you guys help make that possible if you want to go to patreon dot com slash this week and mormons you can pledge seventy five dollars a month I just keep I’m uping it every week by irrational amounts Devin so next week I’m going to call for people to donate 3 hundred dollars a month yeah ah but sincerely thank you every little contribution makes a difference. So truly if it’s a buck I don’t care.

01:06:42.35
Devin
There you go. It’s good. It’s good.

01:06:51.10
Geoff
3 dollars. Maybe a little better but either way, thank you so much for taking the time to do that and Devin we wish you well I don’t know if we’ll sync up again. You’re going to be a busy man with a lot of change here. So next time we touch base I might not see your beautiful black your beautiful wood paneling behind you.

01:06:59.30
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah, we I might be in Florida you might be palm trees behind me. Yeah a manity hanging from a palm tree. Yeah.

01:07:09.35
Geoff
I’ll see a manatee. And the jacksonville jaguars oh boy, what fun for you? No, you don’t you don’t have to do any of those things. This is this this is this is folly devin anyway, all right everybody thanks for being here this week it’s been a pleasure to hang out with you. Always great to see you devin.

01:07:19.00
Devin
Yeah I got to get some Jacksonwell Jacksonville Jaguars gear.

01:07:29.90
Devin
Um, thank you.

01:07:31.67
Geoff
Ah, to our u s listeners. We hope you have a great and safe thanksgiving and that if you’re traveling please do so safely and securely and we hope all goes as well for that and we’re going to be official Holiday season turf starting next week so we look forward to that until then for devon I’m Geoff this has been This Week in Mormons talk to you later. But bye.

 

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