EP 558 – In Memoriam: The Provo Utah Temple

TWiM_EP558_Provo_Utah_Temple
Provo's landmark temple gets more than a facelift; how to manage a congregation in a COVID world; David Archuleta on being LGBTQ; capitalism!

Jared Gillins has been kind enough to join us for this week’s show. Please send Jared some love and follow him on Twitter! We’ve got plenty of interesting Latter-day Saint news as we swing into the Christmas season, plus a few fun LDS-adjacent pieces.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hello my friends welcome to This Week in Mormons I am Geoff Openshaw the host with the most is that a beetlegeice reference a hosted I don’t know which 1 is but anyway I’m happy to be here thankful to all of you for joining us this week I hope for our american listeners. You had a terrific thanksgiving and you know and. You’ve never supported us on patreon before now is your time if you listen to this show say oh my gosh now this is the greatest greatest 50 odd minutes I’ve spent like in my week I must support them. You should go to patreon dot com slash this week at mormons and pledge like 3 bucks a month if you do that it’ll be very cool. We are doing our our christmas drive though which I ask you to increase your pledge to eighty seven dollars a month precisely that much and if you do that I will be able to get a pixel 6 so life goals but seriously thanks for your support folks and please join us on social media and all those great places and. Just review wherever you get your podcasts and visit us at this week in mormons dot com I’ve done all the plugging thrilled to be joined this week by former virginian now Idaho and Jared gillens hello I need to stop dis.

01:01.55
Jared
Hello I don’t like the way you said that with sort of disappointment slash disdain.

01:09.12
Geoff Openshaw
And need to stop disssing the Mormon corridor right? like I need to just be excited like you are in Idaho living your best life. There is an arctic circle in your neighborhood right? Do you still do your run. Do you still do.

01:15.85
Jared
Yeah, it’s about a mile and a half from my front door from yeah I can get to an arc circle I actually haven’t been there yet. I’m not a big I’m not a big artist so I didn’t grow up with Arctic circle I grew up with dairy queen. So yeah I don’t.

01:27.96
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, know near is already a circle like only in utah I ah you’re in Idaho but like are they only in wasachia.

01:35.33
Jared
I don’t know like I like I said I where I was in Western washington I was not familiar with them. But I don’t I don’t know what their distribution is like.

01:44.27
Geoff Openshaw
We’re goingnna find out here arctic circle restaurants. Oh yeah, here we go here. You goes is an american chain of burger and shitk restaurants based in Midvalle utah there’s sixty 2 restaurants fifty percent of the restaurants are in utah they once had franchchises in California but no more so there we go how was your thanksgiving man.

02:00.36
Jared
It’s good. We had we kept it pretty small most of Kelsey’s family went out of town and went to had dinner with other people but her aunt that we had lived with for a while when we first moved here she stay stuck around to town so we invited her over and we had a nice dinner with chan and my turkey tried it out a little bit I’m sad to say but.

02:17.71
Geoff Openshaw
Did you brine it did you brine it did you brine the turkey or cook it in a bag. Did you.

02:18.22
Jared
It still tasted good. The stuffing was good which is the most important thing. What’s that I did a dry brine but I think the problem was that I used to course a grain of salt that it didn’t it just ah it. So the idea of a dry brine is that right? The salt sits on the surface of the turkey and draws the. The the moisture out but then dissolves in that moisture and then it gets sucked back into the turkey. It’s sort of you’re you’re doing a like ah a double osmosis sort of thing. Ah, and I think what happened was I used 2 cores of a grain of of sea salt and so it drew the water out but it was so coarse that it didn’t. Dissolve into that liquid and so then all that liquid just drained into the the pan that the turkey was sitting in. So. So yeah I think it’s probably my fault no because I the way I make stuffing I I break the turkey all apart and then I pi it on top. The stuffing. So all the juices go into the stuffing.

03:03.92
Geoff Openshaw
So You had gravy at least then that’s what makes some very oh my gosh. Oh my.

03:17.40
Jared
Because for a gillens Turkey is but a vehicle for making good stuffing. So but I but I did make a good stock out of other things then then I when I sliced the turkey there was a little bit of Juice runoff and I put that as well into the the gravy. So the gravy did turn out very well. It just was an alternative method. Anyway.

03:20.48
Geoff Openshaw
Okay.

03:36.22
Geoff Openshaw
I didn’t know I didn’t know that for gillins of stuffing was very crude was crucial. That’s ah your information.

03:36.64
Jared
Now you know all about Oh yeah, yeah, no like Thanksgiving is all about the stuffing and the turkey you want the turkey to be good, but mostly because if you have a good turkey if you do the turkey Well when the stuffing wells are not well as well.

03:49.00
Geoff Openshaw
I Grew up primarily I’m assuming it was just like a stovetop type situation with stuffing and while I’ve had homemade stuffing either on its own or stuffed in the turkey since which is delicious and wonderful. My expectations I think have always just been sort of moderated because I’m just like what are someone makes stovetop I’m good with it.

03:53.74
Jared
No.

04:08.30
Geoff Openshaw
I Don’t care I have I have no other feelings about that I’m fine.

04:08.72
Jared
Jeff ah I hope that Someday I have the pleasure of inviting you to my house for thanksgiving and that you’ll be able to accept so that you can taste what I I mean not so humbly. We’ll say is excellent stuffing like it’s just it’s it’s so good. Yeah.

04:15.62
Geoff Openshaw
I I want to take through stuffing badly and I I need this stuffing in my life. Yeah.

04:25.23
Jared
Only make it once a year too I mean so it’s a big treat for me I love it. It’s like 1 of my favorite things to eat but you know I only make it on thanksgiving because it is a lot of work and also it’s terrible for you. It’s bread soaked in fat mostly so you know I’m just saying I’m getting to a point where I have to start worrying about.

04:35.70
Geoff Openshaw
For that I Um, don’t see the problem but this yet but okay, okay I.

04:43.50
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, don’t you hate being in our forty s There’s like stuff that matters Now it’s terrible I Need to go get a doctor I have no idea if there’s anything wrong with me. This is all more to as this moment this episode.

04:44.30
Jared
Like cholesterol levels and my heart health. Yeah no, my cholesterol is actually a little high so got to got to work on that anyway, this is really depressing Jeff I wanted to ask you a totally different question I had my own ideas about how this cold open would go and but we talked about thanksgiving which is good I was curious because. Not and so thanksgiving not only means good dinner and I hope you had 1 too sorry I hope way I didn’t cut you off for talking about your your thanksgiving good. Oh nice.

05:07.28
Geoff Openshaw
I oh well I mean if you mine was great. We went down to charlottesville sawson family. My wife and I actually got to do on a date for the first time in like 3 years so that was good. We haven’t really been doing haven’t been doing sitters really during the ah co covid situation. That’s our preference. So ah, um, so we haven’t been.

05:15.85
Jared
Very nice. Yeah, understandable. But you had Family. You had family to help out.

05:26.70
Geoff Openshaw
We had some family help out so we have to take off went to a cool taco shop by by like an art field thing and we in Charlottesville Yeah, they’ve got some art stuff. It’s a great city indeed down I was gonna go to a vinyl record shop on the downtown mall that was supposed to be open but it was closed. But then we went over to. Ah.

05:31.40
Jared
This was in charlottesville it’s a cool city too I like Sir. Yeah.

05:43.74
Geoff Openshaw
Uva to the Fralin museum which is their art museum at uva which is fun and walked around the lawn in the rotunda and stuff got some cookies had a grand time. It was great thanksgiving itself with we spent more time there than usual, usually we just do quick overnight trips we spent like 3 days down there. It was great made a lot of fun.

05:49.70
Jared
How.

05:55.42
Jared
How how did the uva art museum hold up to the moa at B you.

06:00.38
Geoff Openshaw
I would actually say the moa is more impressive Moa is big. But if you know you ah you take you take it. You take it for granted going there and realize it’s a large museum that can handle some serious installations fralin was in like an older building given the age of a lot of vva’s buildings.

06:04.10
Jared
Um, it’s a good art museum. It’s surprisingly good for a University art museum.

06:18.42
Geoff Openshaw
Um, definitely more modest. It was basically just a couple wings when you first walk in and then there’s a a touring kind of you know, revolving exhibit on the upper floor and that’s about it so moa be why my wife and I we comment notd to each other we were like man you really forget how big b y use art museum is compared to a lot of other schools. They do good things there. It’s ah.

06:34.32
Jared
Yeah, the most great most fantastic.

06:37.45
Geoff Openshaw
It’s an unsung hero I think of the University and people don’t always take the time to just walk up the quad and and duck in there if you get a chance because there’s great exhibits.

06:43.91
Jared
Yeah I really didn’t visit it very much like my first couple of years at buu I didn’t really discover it until probably my junior year and then I was there all the time because I was like this place is fantastic I should have been here all you know I should have been spending a lot more time here.

06:55.69
Geoff Openshaw
I and I’m trying to see which exhibitions they have right now not that I’m going to provo anytime soon. Oh passion for French posters. Everyone loves French Posters I doesn’t want to see that so was great. Great Thanksgiving Habitat My cousin lives down there too. We have a good time seeing family. Nice little trip.

07:03.28
Jared
2 doesn’t.

07:13.54
Geoff Openshaw
Except I just feel like I needed a break by the time it was Sunday and like I got home saturday night and then it was back to bishoprick meeting at 7 a m and like stuff and I wasn’t I wasn’t ready for that. That’s okay, yeah.

07:20.56
Jared
Oh man. Yeah, we we have a we have 6 a m bishopric meeting in my ward I think it’s actually a sin I’m the word clerk. So I attend yeah, it’s lots of it’s also fun. So we’re but we’re moving to.

07:27.22
Geoff Openshaw
Um, when did you join the refined ranks of the bishopricck Jared Yada Boy you know I.

07:39.40
Jared
10 am church in the new year so we’ll have 7 30 a m bishopric meeting which is much more like you know it’s still early but I don’t mind I don’t mind seven 30 that’s well because the way the r bishop prefers to do it is to do have a bishop book meeting and then have word council or.

07:48.61
Geoff Openshaw
That’s still pretty early if you have 10 am I’m sure to do 7 thirty Bishopburg that’s still a pretty thing.

07:57.30
Geoff Openshaw
But do do do do an hour for an hour for each 1 Oh N b I see. Okay, we do half an hour of bishop brick and then an hour of ward council.

07:59.50
Jared
Ah b I c also before church and we do an hour for each 1 so you know we probably could get away with half an hour bishopric I mean there’s some days you know where you just have some more needs and that that would be hard to get it all in. But for the most part I think we could contain it in half an hour. But.

08:15.99
Geoff Openshaw
I when you were in yeah when you were a a counselor in the bishopric in your old ward here in the d c area were you doing that when it was the 8 am church block and you had crazy early meetings.

08:18.33
Jared
I’m not in charge and I really we don’t want to be in charge. So.

08:28.70
Jared
Yes, but I my bishop was Bishop gordon was a little more kind in that we we broke it up so that bishop goes before church and then where council was after.

08:42.48
Geoff Openshaw
That’s nice.

08:42.98
Jared
And also we didn’t do word council every week like the way the but the handbook is written in the and the council that we got from the stake was have it as often as you need so we were doing word council like every other week. Yeah, know it in this word that I’m in now we do it every week we well we do it.

08:53.37
Geoff Openshaw
That’s what we do. It’s every other week and then we do a longer bishop readinging on it through we.

08:59.70
Jared
3 or 4 weeks of the month if there’s a if there’s a fifth sunday but and then just 1 of the weeks we we don’t have word council because they do b y c in that place instead but like I would I would really love to go to and every other week word council schedule and put it after church.

09:06.78
Geoff Openshaw
I I I will never forget though I will never forget being in that ward and go into like five thirty a mpc which was just insane. It was nuts that we had to do it that early I mean that’s what we dig so we did we do pc for an hour then we do.

09:19.85
Jared
Woof. Yeah.

09:25.28
Geoff Openshaw
Board council for an hour and then it would be 8 am church. Yeah back when we were still to pc so that was that was that was a fun stretch getting up that early every Sunday and adding up to the ah and the dark just showing up in the darkness in the middle of the.

09:25.91
Jared
Oh because you’re in Pc because you were the elderor president right now getting rid of Pd Pc I think was a good move.

09:41.64
Geoff Openshaw
How do we feel about the high priest group integration with elders corn though is it been a success I think it’s okay.

09:44.36
Jared
I Don’t know I like it I like that um I don’t feel it because I mean it’s technically not exactly and well that’s the thing it’s you know the high priest elders corn division. It technically isn’t an age thing but in practical how it hit how it works It is.

09:50.53
Geoff Openshaw
That’s because you’re a high priest but your peer group is still elders. That’s why so you’re yeah.

09:59.30
Geoff Openshaw
It winds up being 1 Yeah.

10:03.76
Jared
And so even even forgetting that I’m I high priest and I would be stuck with the old guys. Um I Still just think there’s value in all of us meeting together like why? Why would I not want to like our elskorn president right now and my ward is like this just really genuinely good man and he. By his age I don’t even I don’t know if he’s ordained a hyper priest but by his age he would be like in the high priest group if we still had that and I I feel like it would be a loss for me to not be able to associate in core meetings with brother Duley because he’s like he’s just a fantastic person. So It’s like why split us up just.

10:32.38
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

10:41.14
Geoff Openshaw
Was there an official like graduation age at some point where they’d make you a high priest even if you didn’t have a calling like I think that’s happened with my dad. My dad was like never in a presidency or any role like that at some point they just ordained him a high priest. He had no calling that required it. They just did it.

10:41.34
Jared
Keep us all together. You know.

10:45.53
Jared
Um I don’t think they’re.

10:53.69
Jared
Yeah I’ve I’ve heard of that happening just because they’re like hey he’s like 65 or whatever now and I mean I don’t think there was ever an official age other I also heard of just sometimes they’d just be like yeah, he’s still ordained an elder but he’s on the older side his peers are in the high priest group and they just just invite an elder who was like over.

10:58.54
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

11:09.26
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I’ve seen that too.

11:13.13
Jared
Fifty, whatever or sixty whatever just to attend hyper priest group just so that he’d be with his peers. So again I think that’s a ah good thing that comes out of integration is that we don’t have to like divide along peer lines that you know first of all if you want to hang out with the the old guys or the young guys. We’re all in the same room. But also if you don’t if you want to just hang out with the people you admire the people you want to lean over and make a comment to during the lesson. Whatever it’s you know it doesn’t matter how old they are what corn they belong in. So yeah I think it’s good.

11:42.51
Geoff Openshaw
Fair enough before we get to the news way back minutes ago. You said this wasn’t the cold open you were expecting I just I feel like that’s but that’s that’s sitting in you and you need it. So what? What? what did you want to give.

11:50.18
Jared
No no, it’s okay, we could do this really quickly I’m just super curious because you know we were talking about Thanksgiving and for many people I mean and again this is not an official thing by any means. But for many people Thanksgiving is that marking point in which at which people start to listen to Christmas music.

12:06.22
Geoff Openshaw
Sure.

12:08.65
Jared
And I’ve been listening to a lot just because I don’t know it’s like like it’s been a couple a couple of heavy years for for the world at large and for me as well and so I I Kelsey was like and you know she’s in charge of putting together our our ward sacrament meeting program and so she was like this was a. Several days before thanksgiving she was listening to samples and trying to pick some music and she played this really pretty version of like a holy night and I just started like crying I was like man maybe I need some christmas music in my life. So I’ve been listening to it for a few weeks now but my point is I wanted to ask you because I know you’re a guy who likes music and I am as well. Ah, what is what is your like your christmas music of choice like if you could like pick I don’t know give me your top 3 christmas albums because I’m just really curious and I think maybe our our listeners will be.

12:50.61
Geoff Openshaw
Oh actual albums’s if it’s actual albums that’s a tough 1 and I’ve I’ve fallen victim even though I’m an album guy like by trade I have when it comes to things like christmas holiday music I’ve fallen victim to you know playlisting I would say a lot more.

12:56.52
Jared
Ah, yeah.

13:03.35
Jared
I Do that too. But I still like I grew up like listening album by album usually and like because you know I grew up on cassette tapes. So so but.

13:11.89
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I mean there’s classics I’ve I probably got some on the vinyl records behind me that are some good ones I mean Nat King Cole’s Christmas album is an all-timer for sure. It’s over before you know it I don’t know if edie gourmet ever did a Christmas album I shall look into that Edie Gourmet is wonderful. If none of you have listened to edie gourmet she is.

13:17.83
Jared
Oh yeah.

13:29.80
Geoff Openshaw
Or was but yeah, she’s she’s terrific. Um, 1 of my favorite christmas albums and I might say I like it perhaps even more than any of the tabernac requires christmas albums is the 1 by the millennial choirs and orchestras the former mco the former mormon choral organizations they have they have a christmas album that is.

13:44.53
Jared
Yeah.

13:48.77
Geoff Openshaw
Pretty lights out awesome really well done. It’s 1 of my favorites.

13:49.30
Jared
Interesting I’ll have to check that out. Kelsey’s um 1 of Kelsey’s uncles is in that choir.

13:54.20
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, the the version of silent I they recorded is just is phenomenal I absolutely love it and silent night. You know it is kind of the it’s like the the show stopper the classic 1 you finish with all the time but it’s its it’s a great.

14:04.22
Jared
I Unapologetically love it it. It is my favorite I mean this is so cliche but it is my hands down my favorite Christmas song. So.

14:11.51
Geoff Openshaw
It’s it’s a wonderful song and and it speaks to the fact that great songs can be the most simple in nature. Solid night largely follows a 3 chord structure doesn’t doesn’t do well. The night was very quiet and then Jesus was born. Oh somebody was playing.

14:18.39
Jared
Well, you know the story right? would not that sort of the story of how it was written.

14:30.10
Geoff Openshaw
Mr. Mouth 1 four 1 5 1 four 1 five and came up with something what? yeah yeah yeah.

14:30.60
Jared
So it’s it’s a german it’s german in origin ah still in Nox right? And ah I can’t remember the year but you know so there was this um parish priest or whatever you call him in in germany and their organ was broken. And so he but he so they couldn’t have like their traditional christmas eve music everything because they didn’t have the accompaniment that they normally would but he had written a poem. His name is franz gruber and he had written a poem and he thought well this could be a good Christmas song and he found I can’t remember the name of the. Person who wrote the music but he was a friend of his who was there and locally and he was a guitarist and he says would you write a guitar setting for this because it is you know because our organ’s broken I still want to have like some good music for Christmas so it was it was written out of necessity and I think that’s probably partly why it’s such a simple chord structure. Because it was just sort of like let’s let’s set this poem that the priest wrote or the pastor wrote to music and just do it as quickly as possible and do it simply enough that we can play it and people can learn it and sing along so like it’s got the very humble origins of just like let’s. Let’s let’s get some Christmas for this german congregation and then it just like exploded because it was such a beautiful and wonderful song.

15:46.79
Geoff Openshaw
It’s It’s a beautiful song. It’s wonderful and it’s funny. You mentioned? ah you know because Franz gruer wrote it which makes me things of Hans gruber the villain and diehard and as you said this I looked it up and there’s actually been theories between fans for years whether whether or not they pulled the name Franz gruber to make Han’s group.

15:54.51
Jared
Yeah, yeah.

16:03.86
Jared
Um, because technically Diehard is a Christmas movie right? Yeah, um.

16:05.91
Geoff Openshaw
Terrorist. Yeah that’s what they say. That’s what they say? Um, so yeah, um, that’s ah those are some great ones I guess I don’t have a lot of other ones exactly popping in my head I’d have to kind of look at my catalog and think about what some of my other favorite full blown christmas albums are if I’m getting into it. A big fan of the she and hymn catalog in general. Great christmas music there I like that balance of newish but traditional I’m not as into the full-blown christmas pop stuff some songs. Some songs are good. Oh kelly clarkson’s hers could be an all-timer do not love the britney spirits 1 though San to can you I hate that song so much.

16:40.16
Jared
yeah yeah I can hear that yeah I can see that. Yeah jeff you didn’t ask my my favorite albums so we I’ll just throw him out real quickly. I love the sufian stevens the he’s done 2 christmas albums.

16:43.15
Geoff Openshaw
So much. It’s not good. Well we digress let’s get to oh I’m sorry, what’s your favorite. Um. Oh how did I forget the sufi on Stevens 1 sorry sorry better than the second. Yes, yes, how do i.

16:59.67
Jared
I don’t know but but his first christmas collection songs for christmas I love it? yeah yeah I mean I like the second with to but that’s where it ventures more into like the weird side of sufian stevens which is great but like less Holiday cheery. Yeah.

17:08.96
Geoff Openshaw
I can’t believe I forgot that 1 I feel like such a doof I listen to that like in its entirety every christmas repeatedly.

17:16.50
Jared
Oh yeah, me too and multiple times. So yeah, Suve found Stevens ah Charlie brown christmas that that that vince squirreldi trio I just think is just really good. It’s my favorite hands down my favorite version of Otenenbaum is the vidsquarrel you went from Charlie brown so good and then this year

17:20.11
Geoff Openshaw
Sure the.

17:34.44
Jared
I’m feeling like my if I had to choose 3 my other my third would be ah Sharon jones and the dap kings if you’re familiar they have a christmas album called it’s a Holiday soul party and it’s so good. It’s so very good I highly recommend our listeners check that out. Okay, now we can go forward and i.

17:50.93
Geoff Openshaw
Are you sure I appreciate that though I appreciate you so we’re gonna lead off this week terrible things have happened in South south of downtown l a no, it’s not the usual stuff. You’re thinking about you know violence and stuff like that. No no down there at usc.

17:53.70
Jared
Yes.

18:10.42
Geoff Openshaw
The the byyu of course played the usc trojans in football and I have many rabid byu fans in my feeds who thought that this was the second coming of football because to beat the trojans is really important if we always had a good year this was their last regular season game. As far as I’m more. They’ve had a very good year and I’m sure many will be heming and hauling saying they’re not good at. Give it enough credit by the sports press and blah blah blah but that is not this point what is happening here. Um is there was an offensive chant during the game. Where and bi you us are usc athletics issued an apology and former cougar. Vick sootto is a usc assistant coach and also apologized for the inappropriate behavior by usc fans who were chanting f the mormons from the stands. So audibly and clearly enough that you could hear it. Like from the broadcast of the game if you were watching it on. They did not say ah they said that they also said mormons not Latterday saints. So I feel like that is well I mean which 1 is actually like a responsible journalist of these people like who they’re using the wrong term you know and that’s very that’s very upsetting.

19:01.63
Jared
But they didn’t say f right? jeff.

19:08.75
Jared
Which 1 ne’s more offensive which which 1

19:17.51
Jared
Didn’t they look up the style guide before they came up with their chant.

19:21.50
Geoff Openshaw
Or or is this instead speak to the other way of it that in situations like this no 1 can be bothered with the long hand of explaining who we are. It’s so easier or it illustrates the fact that mormons is used as a pejorative you know could be any of these. But.

19:32.14
Jared
Well and you could also use it from our perspective just to be like to just to choose not to be offended like well clearly they’re not talking about us. We don’t identify as Mormons So they’re talking about some other group.

19:40.38
Geoff Openshaw
They’re not talking to me this is like Bickerton tonights or something. Yeah, we got nothing. Um, so this happened there’s not much more to it. They’ve apologized I mean usc trojans their athletics tweeted out. Ah, their apologies for the offensive chant from their student section. Of course this made the desre news and I imagine many a cougar fan is kind of relishing in the worldliness of the large private university in Los angeles I do 1 private university to another you know and i.

20:08.50
Jared
1 funny thing is you know when I was reading this article. You know they kept on you know mentioning this offensive chant. But I was like this article doesn’t tell us what the chant was and then I was like oh it’s desert news. It must have been bad enough that they just didn’t feel like they could even refer to it so I had to like do some digging.

20:15.56
Geoff Openshaw
Um, never but.

20:21.29
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

20:26.48
Jared
To see define out exactly what they were saying but the desert news they didn’t even want to like give readers the the opportunity to imagine what the chant would be there were there was zero reference to any of the words of the chant. So and.

20:35.65
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, he’s here. He’s there. He’s every pleape wear Ro Sir Yeah, so that so that happened that happened so.

20:44.57
Jared
Cosmo Cosmo. Um, let’s stay yeah that it did happen. So this is not really thematically related. It’s funny how we always feel like we have to have like a good segue but let’s let’s stay in Provo Jeff let’s stay in Provo and look a little bit past a little a little east.

20:54.95
Geoff Openshaw
No, we don’t.

21:03.76
Jared
Of campus little northeast of campus to the temple and we actually so I believe it was last general conference they announced ah that that the provo temple would be rebuilt but in the last week we actually got images of what the redesign will look like and there was some speculation when he said rebuild the provot temple people were like. Does that mean like completely rebuild like Ogden style. It turns out that it does ah so many of our listeners have probably probably already seen this. But yeah, it is completely different and it’s funny I think the last time I was on this show. Oh I was we we talked about how I toured the the Pokateella temple.

21:38.83
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:41.61
Jared
Ah, but and and I think we kind of tongue in cheek said well you know temples are just a series of boxes when you when you when you take the spire off of it and they really stuck with that. It’s like they heard what we said and said you know what it is a series of boxes and that’s what they did for the provo temple not to say that it’s not beautiful in its own right? but it is. I guess so if you could call it a criticism or a critique of the new design that some people have mentioned online is that it’s a bit bland. It looks it looks It’s a bit generic. It looks a lot like kind of other temples like there’s nothing distinctive and and it’s and it’s funny because. Looking at the old design how it currently looks It’s extremely distinctive, especially since Ogden has been rebuilt like there’s no other temple like this in the world and now they’re going from this birthday cake or pillared by night cloud by day or whatever you want to call it design and they’re going to like.

22:23.93
Geoff Openshaw
The.

22:38.46
Jared
Series of boxes. So I mean you know and that’s I obviously that’s way Beyond the point. The point of a temple is to have a place where you can feel like you’re communing with heaven where you feel like you’re closer to the lord and it’ll still be that and yeah.

22:50.66
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, okay.

22:54.44
Jared
And you know and there’s been a lot of speculation about why some people are like are the is the church embarrassed by the aesthetics like and really what it seems to be about especially from stuff that I’ve read from people commenting on our on your Facebook post is that it seems to really be about seismic safety like it’s right sitting on a fault line. It’s almost up on the bench there of ah.

23:12.82
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, and that’s where the fault the fault the was atch fault runs exactly where the lower lands hit the mountains. So the temple is basically sitting around on top of it. So.

23:13.98
Jared
You know the wasatch front in eza county right right? and it’s just not. You know, built to withstand a major earthquake. Um 1 1 commenter on the Facebook post said it would literally pancake like the levels would all just fall on top of each other and anybody inside would be completely crushed. So.

23:27.19
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, yeah.

23:33.30
Geoff Openshaw
And yeah.

23:37.87
Jared
It likely is a project that’s taking into account the need for better safety and better preparedness for just you know when you live on a fault line you you prepare for Earthquakes but um, but you know, but it’s but the the other the other side of that is it’s losing a lot of distinctiveness and.

23:57.19
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I would ah you know I bet I’m gonna throw the listeners a curveball here and tell them and they’re not gonna expect me to say this but I’m not happy about this. You know, um, go figure I mean I’m not I’m not totally I don’t think the Provo temple is the most elegant building.

23:56.78
Jared
And know some people are sad about that.

24:16.63
Geoff Openshaw
But I appreciate that it’s kind of a Mid -century it’s just a very much a mid-century blast of in some ways bizarre design in a way I know like you said you know is it the birthday cake the pillar fire the cloud. Whatever a lot of symbolism in it. That’s. Kind of changed over the years and say painted the spire white and they added the mar own eye on it only in 2003 for example, but it’s still of course of course of course. But yeah, um, but it is. It’s just so distinctive. But I think it always worked better for the space. Yes.

24:34.38
Jared
And and did you notice in the new design. There will be no maroni. It’s like like say 20 years ago they said we have to have a moroni or 15 years whatever it was and now it’s like we have to not have a maroni and also whatever.

24:51.20
Geoff Openshaw
And ogden were stablematetes ogden was dedicated first but ogden just kind of sits in downtown ogden redoing it in Ogden also made a lot of sense to help kind of stimulate the area sort of similar to it. Yeah and the churches.

24:58.31
Jared
Yeah, they were renovating the downtown a lot in that in that time and and since then like downtown Ogden’s become like a really cool. Awesome renovated place. But.

25:08.78
Geoff Openshaw
And the church has played a role in that just as we’ve played a role with doing in city creek and helping downtown salt lake just as they’ve done with the mesa arizona temple and changing the grounds there and helping to do a mixed use development hopefully plus up the area if you’ve ever been to mesa before that I mean there’s some pretty shady streets like immediately around the temple as you well know Jared from your time in hers. Ah, um.

25:13.40
Jared
Right.

25:28.66
Geoff Openshaw
So the difference in Provo though is the Provo temple sits on a nice little incline right? above the mtc right next to byu in a mostly just kind of Tony neighborhood close to the entrance to rock creek. It’s in a very pleasant area. Nice backdrop I get situated very nice. There’s nothing. You’re gonna do here.

25:28.40
Jared
Mesa was outside of my mission. So.

25:47.50
Geoff Openshaw
In terms of gentrification that this will benefit from in any way and as you said yeah I agree with others I don’t know a ton about it. But from what I’ve read it. It appears to be since the temple sits on a fault. It did have a seismic retrofitting a few years ago but many still argue. That’s just enough for the foundational work. It’s not enough to really keep the temple safe in that time. I do wish the church would just say that if that’s the case I mean president nelson all we know is still when president nelson said and we’re gonna rebuild the provot temple at the time he said rebuild like we don’t know if that literally meant strip it down to its studs and like rebuild the temple or if it meant actually like raise the temple and.

26:17.85
Jared
Yeah.

26:22.65
Geoff Openshaw
Build a new temple that’s still called the probo temple which appears to be what’s going to happen so and the design is fine like you said it’s boxes. It looks a lot like the orm temple just with some swapped color palettes and a couple of features but it looks like it’s essentially the orm temple. It’s beautiful.

26:24.36
Jared
Right.

26:31.44
Jared
Right? I But I bet you there will be some more distinctiveness on the inside like every temple is its own thing even when it’s even when it appears to be built according to a template like so you know I mean and then again I don’t want to be heard as complaining but but on the other hand I never I never would have complained at all like you said.

26:37.99
Geoff Openshaw
So yeah, I’m sure.

26:51.24
Jared
The old design. The current design was weird and was quirky but you know I I like many people attended ah the mtc in provost when I was preparing to be a missionary I was in there for eight weeks because I was learning spanish and then I attended byu afterwards and like I I had a lot of great sacred experiences in that temple and I never at any point. When I was walking in or leaving the temple thought ooh look at this ugly thing. It was just like I’m going to the temple right? I mean so and I guess I mean I I’ll apply that same mindset to the new design. It’s like who cares if it’s kind of boxy and kind of generic like it’s the temple. It’s like it’s a sacred space where. Coming and going. It’ll be you know a good a good experience. No matter what it looks like on the outside. So.

27:34.27
Geoff Openshaw
So here’s 1 thing I am curious about because a lot of people commented it said oh this will be great like we can build it so it can have better capacity things like that. But that is ah provosts design is relative um, that’s uncommon in the church you know it follows the the circular design with 6

27:41.38
Jared
I Don’t think that’s yeah.

27:52.00
Geoff Openshaw
Ordinance rooms a central celestial room which is very efficient in terms of doing endowment sessions. Jordan river does it dc does it? um it yeah, it’s it’s the fifth largest temple in the church it’s so I don’t see how they’d improve upon that.

27:51.69
Jared
Break. And it doesn’t look like a huge temple but it is a large temple. It’s like what so it’s in the top 10 as far as its size. Yeah, yeah, there you go.

28:08.67
Geoff Openshaw
What it’s interesting is the rebuilt ogden temple which is still very large. The rebuilt ogdo temple still 100 and 12000 square feet and it does say it has 6 instruction rooms now I don’t know if that means I don’t know what that means if thefts does that mean it’s I haven’t been to the ogda temple I’d love people to tell me I don’t think it’s built in the the round.

28:15.35
Jared
Okay.

28:28.29
Geoff Openshaw
Sort of way because I think we’ve moved away from that because we like building our celestial rooms so they have windows on at least 1 side we like the natural light and celestial rooms I think you know we’ve gotten away from the whole and you could do that like that’s what they? well they do they do that in Madrid for example, yeah, the temple’s and the the cce rooms the center but there’s.

28:36.10
Jared
You could do the skylight thing or you know the or or a cupola type thing where it comes in from the sides. Yeah.

28:47.94
Geoff Openshaw
There’s windows that are higher up that get some light there. They could do that I’ve never been to ogden. Yeah no I think Preston just got the cilestster room in the back because it follows the the longer spire and that the yeah.

28:48.61
Jared
I Think that’s how old that a Preston temple is as well in New England Anyway. Maybe I’m thinking to london 1 of those had like higher up like type windows I can’t remember.

29:04.60
Geoff Openshaw
So I don’t know but it does say they have 6 in Ogden I don’t think ogden would do the the ordinance rooms in the round thing but the question is like would they do that in Provo would they just do the same thing will the this provoteble based on the design doesn’t look like it would be. Over 100000 square feet like the current 1 is it looks similar to the orum temple which is more like 7080 thousand square feet and like all the temples going up in utah save ephram which is kind of a special case temple. So um, so it’s not really for efficiency could be first etics I think it’s for earthquakes or the cynical part of me wants to think it’s because the church is tired of. Of engaged couples. Not really wanting to get married in Provo because you yeah like nobody wants has the picture solip I mean people still get married in Provo obviously but it’s sort of anecdotally though it’s famous that a lot of people in the area would go to mount tippanogas or.

29:41.75
Jared
Because they don’t want it the backdrop of their of their bit of their wedding pictures. Um, I mean yeah. Yeah, no for for a long time this right? Oh I Love Provost City Center Um I used to go to state conference in the provot tapernacles. So Yeah I have ah affinity for that building. But yeah, there was a point where the like the.

29:57.86
Geoff Openshaw
Nowadays that they probably go to provost City Center nowadays out of magic that’s way more photogenic. So still. Yeah.

30:14.51
Jared
The highest there was this statistic that somebody gave me once were like the the highest number of of live ceilings in like the whole church where it was done at timanogas and it was because you had all these people at Butu getting engaged in getting married and then you know driving. Twenty minutes north so that they could have a prettier temple in their background anyway, um, 1 other thing that you didn’t mention and I can’t remember if you or joseph or somebody brought this up on the on the Facebook post as well. It this is totally speculative but there could it could be that they’re also putting in a second baptistry and that.

30:36.22
Geoff Openshaw
That’s funny.

30:50.28
Geoff Openshaw
And especially at Byyu for byu students.

30:49.47
Jared
Could improve as you know, capacity efficiency, etc. Especially by you because you have a lot of endowed people obviously be you be ah you know with especially with Richard de Missionaries and people get married but you also have a lot of unendowubted people. There’s especially among the sisters if they choose not to go on a mission. It’s becoming more common for sisters just to choose to get endowed without having done missionary work but there still is a significant number of freshmen, especially who go to the temple specifically for baptisms so it makes sense to put in a second baptist history there and and be able to kind of.

31:23.18
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and that on top of the fact that it’s just a growing trend in utah anyway, we know the Salt lake temple’s gonna have to the syracuse. Temple’s gonna have to it seems to be a thing even aside from that so all right real quick 1 another quick 1 here for you american samoa this is this is temple news. So american samoa not.

31:22.94
Jared
Accommodate a higher capacity in that way.

31:30.40
Jared
Yeah, right? Yeah I think it’s good.

31:42.54
Geoff Openshaw
Samoa the country I guess which was formerly western in Samoa right? So there’s samoa the country there’s american samoa we’ve split the samoans they’re ah 2 state people. Um, they have issued the legislature there has issued a a commendation to the church. Specifically on the groundbreaking of the new pago pago american samoa temple I just think this is just a lot of fun and the fact that they’ve just said like I don’t know how often do we get commendations from political bodies or from governmental bodies when we are breaking grounds on temples. Anywhere no matter how like normalized we are as latter- day sans is part of the social fabric I mean for goodness sake when they built a temple on Newport beach. It was like a battle just to get the thing built in the city in the first place let alone a commendation from the the state government the equivalent of something like that. So.

32:23.41
Jared
Right.

32:32.19
Geoff Openshaw
They had a little joint session there Elder Brett Kay Nais spoke to the joint session and they got to receive this this wonderful commendation for building a tip with um.

32:38.27
Jared
Can you imagine like the orange County Commissioners being like we need to we need to commend the church for build it a thbble.

32:43.20
Geoff Openshaw
And well I guess the the uba end assemblles a new opportunity I guess we should start lobbying them for the we should start lobbying them and the state senate of California for a common issue.

32:50.79
Jared
Yeah, it’s like hey you guys really don’t want to be put you know behind American Samoa here like on this trend you need to give us commendation here.

32:59.87
Geoff Openshaw
It’s actually not a bad idea. This is going to be my work now I am going to pester the legislature and I know I know lobbyists in Sacramento they don’t work in our area but I could we could see what happens to.

33:02.51
Jared
Jeff has got a new calling. Well there you go this is something we don’t necessarily to spend a lot of time on but it was really interesting and you brought this to my attention jeff this was an article in the atlantic and it was written by an episcopalian minister a woman by the name of Elizabeth fiicchetti. Fell fell chatty I’m I’m assuming it’s the like italian pronunciation that that c is a a che fe chatty. Um, but so it’s interesting that the headline is my church doesn’t know what to do anymore and it was a really good article.

33:27.69
Geoff Openshaw
You really got to pronounce the yeah yeah.

33:41.29
Jared
Ah, for me to read because it was written from a different perspective and I always enjoy kind of getting a little window into the way other people think you know other co-religionists as joseph smith might say um so she’s describing her experience as an episcopalian minister. But. It was still very relatable because basically the just of the article was that she ah you know had very straightforward guidelines when it came to the beginning of covid like we can’t meet it in person and here’s how we do thisacrament and here’s how we do this and here’s how we do that and then eventually as things you know, got better or things people start to get. Ah, vaccinated and numbers started to started to get a little better in. You know the beginning of this last year um they the the direction that she got from her diocese which would be kind of like I don’t know our stake or our area would be maybe a good analogy. Um, was just like it’s kind of up to you.

34:31.94
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, more or less.

34:39.28
Jared
And so it’s been very difficult for her to navigate like how do we accommodate? Not only. Ah, you know what do we want to have is like what is the basic parameters of our worship right? but also accommodate the different needs of the people like. For example, there’s some people who can’t be vaccinated because their age or people who. In spite of being vaccinated are still at risk because of their age or health conditionst etc and then also accommodate the wants of the people in her congregation. Ah the people who say well we want to sing or we want to do this or we want to do that? Um anyway and it’s just just’s like it and it she’s like it’s a hard needle to thread. And then the other thing she’s noting is that it’s hard to maintain numbers because no matter what she does not not everybody is pleased and so if she you know has stricter requirements for masks then people are going to take off and go to a different episcopalian congregation. That’s not as strict. If she goes less strict on those things and the people who want masks. Whatever are also going to take off and find another different congregation that meets their Needs. So it’s just it was good to like I mean it wasn’t good the article to me was actually very sad because it was sort of a plea for help and ah and sort of a throwing up her hands and saying I really don’t know what to do with this. But I really related especially where I am in the country. Um, where I don’t always feel like the stake guidance or the ward guidance where I live ah meets what I would expect the church to be like you know it’s far you know and in ah in an ongoing pandemic situation. Especially since I as we noted before I I serve and not I’m not really in the bojeuck but I’m still a part of the leadership organization and so anyway I really felt for her I thought I was really grateful for her for writing this article and into the atlantic for for publishing it and I think it’s something we can all relate to regardless of where you fall. On what you think are appropriate measures because that’s really her points like who knows what I can’t tell you what the appropriate measures are and I’m still trying to figure that out anyway. Did you have any thoughts on this.

36:37.64
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I mean Twenty Twenty one has been a weird much more of a limbo year in that sense right? I mean yeah like that’s the it just it struck home so well it was almost it was in that in that sense easier through so much of 2020 when the option to attend wasn’t there and just to. Soldier on and power through with my family and do our church at home and say this is what we’re doing right now and hands are tied right? But yeah, it makes it a lot harder depending on how who’s letting who call shots and do what they want to do right? And yeah, of course we all have our own opinions on on how things should be um. 1 thing I have seen in all of this and this is sort of related is I feel like the the broader tenor at least in our faith seems to be and this might be elsewhere too. It seems to be like if people if say they have no masks at least where I which is still a thing like we’re still masking up at church here and sit. Let’s say they say all right? No more masks. And if the people aren’t comfortable with that like they want to wear masks. You know they can. That’s their choice to stay home I hear that language a lot like well you know they’re making their choice not to be here. But what I never hear is the flip side of it saying like no, we’re wearing masks and if people have a problem with that then they are choosing to not to be here I never hear that argument. It’s always the folks who. Want to wear masks and are concerned about not wearing them are somehow the ones who are basically it’s like we’re we’re extending this opportunity to you and you are not taking it but we’re never flipping it around and talking about it the other way I’ve never seen that anyway and that’s purely anecdotal of course but but.

37:54.74
Jared
Yeah.

38:06.20
Jared
No I I mean I I will be a second witness to that where when I’ve heard the concerns brought up in in meetings. Whether it’s word council or whatever generally the concern is let’s make sure the people who don’t want to wear a mask feel welcome here and it’s never Let’s make sure the people who are concerned and and want masks to be worn that they feel comfortable and it’s sort of in. It’s sort that idea that like well if they don’t if they feel it they’re at risk whatever they’ll stay home. We continue to broadcast sacrament meeting but then the other thing that I hear sometimes is then.

38:28.76
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, so.

38:41.54
Jared
Ah, you know it’s sort of not necessarily as part of the same conversation. But then it’ll come up later or in a different context that people like in leadership will start saying well you know this family is staying home and it makes sense because they just had you know the husband just had heart surgery or whatever and they was like but this family staying home. And really, there’s no real good reason for them to be a voice. You know that people start to make their own judgment calls about like well who actually ought to be concerned and who actually deserves to stay home and have the sacrament in their home and watch the broadcast rather than coming in in person and it’s like hey you know I don’t think it’s.

39:05.60
Geoff Openshaw
The.

39:15.35
Jared
Our place to be able to make that judgment call because everybody knows their own health in their own mind in a way that like I don’t know it’s not up to me to say like no no, really, you should be in church because I think your health is just fine. You know.

39:27.26
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I just think a lot of those we’ve had that that mind has been there forever right? I mean people choose whether or not to come to church and some people have had health issues long before covid and they couldn’t come to church and we’d reach out to them. But I just think like that that old Playbook doesn’t just doesn’t work.

39:33.70
Jared
Now.

39:42.65
Geoff Openshaw
And the pandemic we can’t approach it that same way and we have to be more sensitive to every 1 ne’s needs in that sense those other thoughts I always have like I wonder if the fact that there’s been so much politicization around.

39:43.34
Jared
Now.

39:54.27
Geoff Openshaw
Mask wearing and the fact that the church largely skews conservative if those inherent biases around that sort of thing then inform how we’re acting in terms of what I’m saying that you know there’s the you know it’s just that.

40:00.45
Jared
Oh definitely that that I mean hundred percent Jeff I I think you’re right on, you’re hitting part at least in part that’s that’s right, That’s the nail being hit on the head with that. So.

40:09.25
Geoff Openshaw
So yeah, and so it’s like yeah, it’s gonna be fun like right now we’re gonna have we’re gonna have a word christmas party which might not sound like a big deal to people and they’re they’re authorizing us to do it. But at the same time like it’s just gonna be like in the cultural hall. Everyone just unmask sitting by each other and eating. I don’t know if that’s my jam right now I want it to be my jam I like socializing with my ward at the same time It’s like oh I don’t know if this is our best foot forward right.

40:30.30
Jared
Yeah, but in your where you are and I don’t know I haven’t looked at the specific numbers for your county but I’m guessing it’s probably like Seventy to 80 percent of eligible people have been vaccinated where you are.

40:43.62
Geoff Openshaw
We’re we’re doing pretty well Northern virginia better than the rest of the state as well. But virginia overall does it does okay but I think a lot of that has been because of like enforcement quite frankly. But yeah.

40:46.49
Jared
Yeah, where but but here where I am at least in in the county where I reside it’s it’s closer to forty between forty and fifty percent of eligible people have been vaccinated and so I would feel more comfortable eating dinner in a cultural hall.

40:57.67
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

41:06.80
Geoff Openshaw
First auto.

41:05.75
Jared
And your Awardd that I would in mine because it’s like well you know I’ll take our masks off to eat. But um, at least we’re all like you know we’re all vaccinated. But yeah.

41:13.14
Geoff Openshaw
And and it’s for that reason it doesn’t freak me out like as much and especially out here like so many federal employees now have been required to do so all the you know lawsuits notwithstanding and things So ah.

41:18.92
Jared
Right? Yeah, no, that actually I think improved numbers quite a bit around here because in in bingham county where I am and but especially in Bonneville county so many people work at the Idaho national laboratory which is a nuclear research reactor just a little west to here.

41:29.12
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, you got.

41:36.75
Jared
And all of those people have been required to be vaccinated so like that that did give us a boost but you still like when I I was looking up cdc numbers in the last week and I shouldn’t because it always just depresses me but but bonneville county where Idaho falls is is actually starting to look pretty good like where where you would wanted it where where. Where a lot of the rest of the country was like 5 months ago. But yeah bingham county still isn’t so hot. So yeah or a little too hot maybe is another way of looking at.

42:05.72
Geoff Openshaw
Heyo there. We go Anyway, we digress The point is it is hard to manage a congregation in all of this now because it’s less clear cut and I don’t envy the people I mean I work.

42:10.61
Jared
Yeah, it’s easy for me and my wife to make decisions for ourselves and our family. But yeah, how do you do that for a congregation of families. So yeah.

42:17.17
Geoff Openshaw
You how do you it for a family and how do you balance the the literal needs of not denying people. You know their rights to the equivalent of communion based on those health choices and things like that like you know it’s hard. So a great article out of the desertet news here I think trent tune by thing his name is Toanna. Like tooellaa as trent towina has written a great profile in an interview with David archilllet you remember remember some months ago. David archulettta famous singer latterday saint very active in our faith community came out saying he didn’t like out and out say I am gay but he basically said like I have dealt with same-s sex attraction but he goes more in-d depth about this and this is. Ah, credit to to trent for the article credit to david archelettta for being just really open and forthright about his experience with with all this because he has his his. Every goal is to remain part of the church and be active in it. Um, and of course it raises it opens up some of those typical questions when he says like you know it’s not much different than with girls like I go out with guys and it’s like going out with girls but it gets into that hole in the weeds but like okay but like can you actually have a relationship can you hold hands can you make out with another boy if you want to or how does that kind of stuff work. But um, regardless I just. Want to commend everyone involved in this for going ind depth on on his own experience and I really like the experiences david archot had him he spoke. He spoke about how on his mission I think he kind of went on his mission hoping some of his his same-s sex attraction would. Subside because of his giving himself over to the lord he hoped you would be blessed with that and he talks about how 18 months in he was still like this is still here and he finally told his mission president and the mission president reacted exactly how you need to react in these situations not by saying well let’s continue to have faith. We can get rid of that here’s some tactics have you tried this. He just told him like. I love you. You’re doing great workout here. The lord loves you keep working hard and just you know keep being a great missionary That’s what you’re here to do. That’s what you need.

44:04.81
Jared
Well and I love the you know and the the quotation in the article where he you know where he’s telling the story it was. It was almost as if that his mission president was like commending him. He said something like well this is 1 of the biggest days of your life and I think what he meant was you felt enough love and trust between us that you were able to come out to me your mission president.

44:15.30
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:24.40
Jared
And it and it was sort of like he was commending him like thank you for being honest and I’m glad that you can be honest with yourself and now with others and the I sort of like a just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re an awesome missionary kind of a message and and yeah, totally commendable. What what? a great way to respond from a mission President’s perspective

44:37.45
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and all this I mean this is like a long form article. You should all definitely give it a read and he says like his quote like I feel like I don’t have anything to hide I don’t have to hide that I’m attracted to guys and I don’t have to hide that I still love god and I trust in him as he leads me in this territory I never imagined I would be in he says it’s nice to know that I don’t have to let him go. Because the negative thoughts and voices in your head say you have to I feel like it’s maybe the closest I’ve ever been with him which is great. So check this article out. We’ll have a linked at the website at this week at mormons dot com with this episode can read it up. Good. Definitely a good read.

45:12.35
Jared
Definitely um, let’s do 1 other kind of interest just sort of of interest article and then I think we can do like a good like rapid fire like Holiday style articles. But but just something worth checking out religionnews ah dot com which is Janna rees’s or.

45:21.20
Geoff Openshaw
So there are seat. Yeah, we got some of those for sure. So.

45:30.00
Jared
Yeah, Jane re’s website that she.

45:33.89
Geoff Openshaw
That’s right Gene Generation gene.

45:42.84
Jared
Um I didn’t realize we had a generous musical cue. That’s amazing. Um, so we don’t have to spend you know we don’t have to dwell on this because I mean there’s a lot done pack and I don’t think we have time to like.

45:45.23
Geoff Openshaw
I I mostly lose it when Josie’s on it. She has her international news roundup to to bring her up but here we are.

46:00.62
Jared
Delve into it. But um, she refers to a recent study in 2020 ah about us mormons or members of the church of Jesus christ the latter day saints and the the whole the kind of the big conclusion is religiosity has declined over time. Ah. What that means isn’t necessary that like fewer people are identifying as latter-day say it’s more that among people who do identify latter-day say fewer people are saying that religion is very important in their life. And which is interesting so like generally we would assume that if somebody identifies the Latterday saint they’re going to church or they have some sort of affinity for the church because a lot of people whether or not they’ve removed their their names from the records of the church generally if if you don’t identify as lds you don’t you don’t you say no I’m not a mormon even if you. Still a member so people who identify as lds saying that a few of them are saying religion is very important and so she she goes. Ah I we just you know this is on the Facebook page this is on the all on the social medias that twin does read the article yourself. It’s very interesting. It’s hard to know what to do with this data and there are also the other things that she points out. Yeah well the other thing she points out is that ah for the first time in in you know our generation’s memory. The church has not.

47:13.52
Geoff Openshaw
Depression to stay depressed. Please.

47:30.85
Jared
Um, released certain numbers and let’s see ah did it so it’s not just that you know so the church always gives statistics especially around general conference right? There’s like sort of a world report right in between sessions and they often talk about numbers and they publish those numbers online. Um, so we we have data um about how many members there are but the church has stopped providing like specifics normally is it from their article. Normally the church releases global. Membership number during the April general conference and follows up with the country by country information less than a week later this year it did the first the global numbers overall but not the second and so raises the question of why is the church wided. What is the reason to to not provide country by country in numbers in that breakdown and you know there’s all sorts of speculation and we don’t need to necessarily get into it but it does make you think well I mean if some of those numbers have gone down then why I mean. Not releasing the numbers to me kind of makes you say makes you assume oh numbers have gone down and if they have gone down release them anyway and then then we have a conversation about it right? I mean or we say okay when we see that this like membership has declined in this country or or hasn’t hasn’t been rising in this country as fast as it normally does.

48:54.18
Geoff Openshaw
Well it all right? So from the marketing perspective though here’s why I agree with you I would love to see them because it just looks suspicious. But if you release the numbers and it does show a net loss of membership at least in the Us because then the net gain.

48:55.70
Jared
Let’s have a conversation. What do we do about that. Why is that important Why is this happening etc.

49:13.77
Geoff Openshaw
And 2020 which they did do its global numbers was only like Ninety eight thousand members. Obviously you could have a giant fat covid asterisk next to all of this if you have any losses but I’m going to assume that that 90 a big chunk of the ninety eight thousand came from like the philippines latin america. Africa and there’s a very strong chance in the a lot of the developed world. There was a decline in numbers and an actual decline. Not just stagnant growth but like resignations or deaths might have outpaced actual convert baptisms which could happen I’m with you? Great here’s what happened.

49:42.17
Jared
Right.

49:46.60
Geoff Openshaw
Was a bad year of course because of covid we talk about it. We make it through but if the church does release that the headline immediately becomes Mormon church experiences net loss in membership for first time in history and then that becomes the story and by nodded by not releasing anything about it. There is no story Beyond janna reese’s blog right.

50:01.36
Jared
I was gonna say that’s true. The only the only person reporting on not releasing the numbers jaes. No 1 No 1 else is so yeah.

50:04.84
Geoff Openshaw
And so. And like I like ah as as someone who enjoys the research side of it. It bugs me too but apps this would get it would get picked up by Outlets. It would become a much bigger tail and so maybe they’re not going to the question is though does this mean they’ll just stop doing it all together. So 2020 doesn’t just win. It isn’t just this random blip. Where they don’t release the numbers and they will other years because then that also looks suspicious I don’t so but that’s why that’s I’m absolutely why I would create a new cycle around a negative story about the church but it is interesting and it’s cool I mean yeah, we’re we’re Slowed. We have been slowing down in the us for some time I don’t know if a lot of.

50:37.29
Jared
Nope.

50:45.20
Geoff Openshaw
Everyday members kind of like really pick up on this, especially you’re look at somewhere like utah where temples are going up gangbusters and and temples have also kind of stopped being a direct indication of growth and strength of church membership. Many of the temples announced in recent conferences have been for areas with 1 stake with basically. Stagnant membership numbers. So that that that old rule is kind of out the window. So that’s fine. But I think when you get out of places like the intermountain west you can forget that oh yeah’s we’re kind of just here and maybe we’re getting settled in as a faith as far as us culture goes and we’re experiencing what a lot of other faiths have experienced before us. And we don’t figure out how to combat that though. That’s the big thing.

51:26.68
Geoff Openshaw
So I don’t know all right Christmas blasts is what you said all right 1 cool. So ah sorry sorry it’s right here.

51:26.39
Jared
I Don’t know Christmas Blast You don’t have a musical cue for of Christmas Blast come on jeff.

51:38.90
Geoff Openshaw
So everyone there will be an animated nativity projected on their ceiling of the tabernacle. Um, it’s dramatic piano. It’s great. Okay, so.

51:46.15
Jared
Ah, but all right, That’s enough. That’s enough.

51:53.97
Geoff Openshaw
This is actually very cool. We know the the offerings at temple square are cut back quite a bit this year even though it’s reopened last year pandemic happened nothing happened this year 3 quarters of temple square is under construction along with the plot. Whatever we call next door the church plaza whatever’s between the c o b and the the ca a b you know that’s all under construction. But a cool thing we get in all this is a projection of the nativity animated projection of it on the ceiling of the tabernacle which I think is just fun I’m assuming the tabernacle is just going to kind of be open and like it is and you can walk in there and this will be going up with some. Some shadow graphics to tell the story we find in luke 2 it’s cool. Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of that. Well, it’s not the same animation. But I think about the cool animation they did and deathly how those part 1 you know the story of the elder 1 that was cool animation. But I yeah.

52:31.12
Jared
Yeah, the picture looks cool that they put in the article. Yeah.

52:40.83
Jared
Yeah, and story the the tail of the 3 brothers or whatever.

52:47.75
Geoff Openshaw
This is great and they’re also going to show viewings of the christchild that really great film that came out a couple of years ago. That’ll be every thirty minutes in the conference center. For example, this is great I love the stuff. That’s a little more out of the box and I wish I could go to utah and actually go inside the tabernacle and see this cool new medium projected on the ceiling of an historic. Structure in our faith that I love putting the 2 together to make something neat. So I think that’s rad great for them.

53:08.30
Jared
Well, it’s very clever because you know I you know almost especially since we’ve moved here you know we we often go to utah for christmas and and when we’re staying with my sister’s family. 1 of the things we almost always do is go watch and see the lights in temple square. And then also as part of that you you go into the North visitor center you sit down and you watch like a nativity like you know a Christmas video and you can’t do any of that like the North visitor center is gone like they’ve demolished it and you know there’s so much is under to construction that there’s there’s aside from the conference center. There’s not really.

53:30.32
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I.

53:42.10
Jared
A place to sit down and watch a movie or you know you know that North visitors sent was great because it had all these little rooms and so people could go and choose what they wanted to watch and spend you know be in the little intimate setting with their family and hear the Missionaries bear their testimony so you know since that’s gone.

53:48.62
Geoff Openshaw
The.

53:57.21
Jared
It’s a really clever way to adapt the space in the tabernacle to kind of make up for a little bit of that loss and I yeah I think it’s a really great idea and I’m hoping that when we’re down in utah in a few weeks that we’ll you know we’ll still be able to make it to temple square and and maybe see this I can let you know how it looks I’m hoping it’s cool.

54:10.19
Geoff Openshaw
You all right? you put it you you put it up on the the twin Ticktokck gonna make it happen I don’t think Ill pirate I think you’re literally I think they’re going to encourage the social media on it I’m pretty sure it’s gonna they’re gonna have signs up to say Hashtag like the world I’m pretty sure it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be fine.

54:16.24
Jared
I’ll do some pirate video of it. You know. Okay.

54:28.50
Jared
Hashtag light the ceiling. Yeah with love another I really liked this story. This was from the church news that they mobilized to the Mtc over thanksgiving.

54:29.93
Geoff Openshaw
With Love flight it with love? yeah.

54:43.40
Jared
And put 7 hundred missionaries to work and the the church partnered with a ah group a nonprofit called hunger fight and they brought all of this food like to the mtc and had seven hundred missionaries in in just four hours put together around 3 hundred and 85000 breakfast kits for distribution to families needs and I think that’s amazing like and the articles really good and it’s great and you get to here read some ah quotes from sharon youubank and things like that which we always need more sharon youank is it Sharon it’s Sister. Youubank.

55:19.41
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, sure new big. She said.

55:21.87
Jared
Yeah, Sharon yeah, good anyway, really good short inspirational article, fun pictures of Missionaries just you know getting down and doing some really important service.

55:29.48
Geoff Openshaw
Um, and that’s that’s a lot that’s like if you said it was 3 hundred and 85700 missionaries I mean that’s about 500 and fifty kits per missionary which is a lot I mean if you divide that that’s 1 hundred and 30 7 or 38 per hour that you’re that you’re rocking out I mean that’s.

55:37.34
Jared
And yeah.

55:43.82
Jared
Well they they so 1 of the quotes from the article was that they they it was sort of a controlled chaos which I can imagine you know like ah which is fantastic and just imagine the impact that 3 hundred and 85000 breakfast kits will have on families who need such things.

55:50.11
Geoff Openshaw
So that is 2 point 3 kits per minute so across a four hour stretch. It’s amazing.

56:03.74
Jared
Anyway, it’s really inspirational. It’s a great Holiday. Story. Um, it’s a great way I think to use the missionary’s mtc and I would propose if I may and again I’m not in charge and I don’t want to be but I’m going to put this out there. Why not do this once a month not like it doesn’t have to just be a thanksgiving thing that we partner with an organization like Hunger fight and put 7 hundred missionaries to work like maybe once a month you know so you know because generally you know if you’re going english speaking is what 3 and a half four weeks in the Mtc. Um, oh yeah, no it. Not even yeah, so yeah.

56:30.81
Geoff Openshaw
2 to 3 usually yeah, something like that.

56:36.27
Jared
Just a few weeks so yeah I mean at least once a month let’s do 1 of these service projects feed the world.

56:39.59
Geoff Openshaw
The answer is because we do not stand for the hymns of zion and unless directed to do so That’s the thing I I know but it’s the thing I remember like the most from the mtc all things I Love that guy. He always seems so cantankerous.

56:46.46
Jared
That has nothing to do with this? Yeah yes, ah, that’s true I know I just think it would be great. It’s a great way to mobilize the missionary force. It’s a good way to do good in the world and I would love to see more of this and let’s do it at thanksgiving let’s do it at Christmas. Let’s do it on Martha luther king day. Let’s just come. Yeah happy president’s day here’s a bunch of breakfast kits.

57:07.12
Geoff Openshaw
Let’s do it on like the not the holidays when people don’t expect giving that’s that’s when we really need to amp up like well I mean like really we should I I love the Christmas spirit but we could we could do it all the time and that’s I’m guilty like anybody else, but that’s a good thing. We could do. Also for christmas time. The first presidency has its Christmas message up which we’ll link to and you can read pretty just 3 paragraphs very short and sweet also a good reminder though we will have the first presidency christmas devotional coming up here I believe this weekend.

57:30.45
Jared
It’s very short and sweet. Yeah.

57:39.50
Geoff Openshaw
So always the first weekend in December and it’s going to be here on Sunday december fifth it’s 6 p m mountain time. It’ll include christmas life.

57:43.96
Jared
Is it still the first presidency devotional I stopped I thought they stopped calling you that because it’s not just speakers so in the first presence anymore.

57:49.62
Geoff Openshaw
They did stop I think we wrote an article about this years ago they stopped calling it that at 1 point and then I remember the devotional felt kind of weird because we had like random Seventy s giving I don’t know like to me it felt like no I attuned to this because I literally want to see these 3 cozy men be cozy and christmasy with me and that’s what I’m into. Um. But it’s it’s called that again. So whoever may speak. That’s what it’s called and still have some messages from church leaders music by the tabernac choir. All that stuff. Obviously it will not be available to the public even though I believe it’ll be broadcast from the venue but you can only tune in to watch it on the interwebs or you know.

58:09.10
Jared
No good.

58:28.21
Geoff Openshaw
Wherever you get your stuff but I would look forward to it. It’s a wonderful time. You get to hear terrific music. Great messages of hope and they usually assuming they go with the norm. They usually decorate the conference center and so it’s quite beautiful and lustro for Christmas which is great. So.

58:39.11
Jared
Yeah, it’s always great. It’s always inspirational I love it and then just to wrap up our Holiday blast. We would like to point your perspective to um to a very important and poorly written terrible article. Sorry.

58:55.46
Geoff Openshaw
This is we have no biases folks. We’re right in the middle at the top on that chart The show’s media.

58:56.85
Jared
There’s an opinion piece I Guess it’s it. Well since this is an opinion piece in the in the desert news I feel like I’m allowed to express my opinion. The title of this opinion piece is the socialist at the dinner table and it’s this woman Jennifer graham. Who is complaining about her sister being or daughter sister her daughter being indoctrinated with not only herself being indoctrinated with anti-capitalist ideas but then also trying to indoctrinate the rest of the family that she gave.

59:25.49
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, that’s what happens they they.

59:29.23
Jared
She gave gifts of the communist manifesto to every member of and it was funny when I read stuff like this I’m just like did this really happen. It’s like you know that’s.

59:35.14
Geoff Openshaw
You have to admit though, if you receive the communist manifesto as a Christmas present. You’d be like Thank you, let’s that. Thank you appreciate the thought.

59:40.92
Jared
I Mean it’s kind of the equivalent of getting coal in your stocking right? It’s like oh boy.

59:49.34
Geoff Openshaw
Are you telling me I like I shouldn’t buy that television. What what exactly is the message you’re trying to send them.

59:52.59
Jared
You know? yeah you know when I’m when it’s Christmas time I like to snuggle up with a good you know book by charles dickens or ray bradbury because he’s 1 of my favorites or you’re Karl marx you know who doesn’t like a little cozy karl marx reading over the holidays. So anyway like it’s just funny because it’s like.

01:00:05.60
Geoff Openshaw
Nillo.

01:00:10.18
Jared
It’s 1 of those things where sometimes when I was reading it I thought this is like those like you know, social media posts that end with and then everybody stood up and clapped and you’re like no no, that didn’t happen back and I’m not calling Ms. Grandma liar I’m sure this happened but it’s just funny because she just. Takes this thing in ah in a weird direction and it’s kind of all over the place and she had in the end. The conclusion is that she told her ah her daughters that she will read every word of the communist manifesto. She said she’ll read it twice. If they will read milton freeman friedman’s capitalism and freedom. Anyway, what 1 of the things that I thought was funny by this article is that 1 of her of her like sort of central ideas is that like okay okay, I’m worried right now because I feel like my daughter has been indoctrinated and she’s trying to indoctrinate my other children but. I Remember when I was rebellious and I thought I knew better than my parents and and I ah and I came around and that’s what children do they’ll they’ll just come around and I’m just like do you not know how like generational change works like we you know the baby boomers did throw off of the ideas of the greatest generation and gen xers threw off the ideas of the baby boomers and. Millennials and gen z are thrown off the you know the ideas of their parents like she’s just assuming this is all going to just resolve itself because her daughter’s going to come to her senses and just understand that the true gospel of capitalism and how it saves the world and makes everything better without any ill side effects. Um.

01:01:41.67
Geoff Openshaw
I think I think for the record you should I think you and I are both capitalists though Jared we should okay, okay.

01:01:40.79
Jared
Ah, gosh now I sound like a marxist I’m so sorry I got to political Jeff I I don’t know I mean that’s the thing like to me what 1 That’s the other 1 of the other funny things about this article is that she just assumes boxes right? and like you know and it’s just like you’re either a capitalist.

01:01:53.00
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

01:01:58.78
Geoff Openshaw
And I’ll.

01:01:58.39
Jared
Or you’re a socialist and there’s no crossover. There’s no subtlety. There’s no, you know there’s no people who think well maybe you can have capitalism a free market that’s somewhat regulated to prevent this and and also some social net program you know safety Net programs for people like no, you’re either a capitalist or a socialist and so like yeah.

01:02:13.96
Geoff Openshaw
We don’t want venezuela in this country. We don’t want that come on stuff.

01:02:18.22
Jared
I mean I’m like you I I enjoy working for money and spending that money like capitalism works fine for me shopping is fun buying new things or saving up for a good purchase like whatever but at the same time it’s like does that mean I’m a 100 percent free market. Coke brothers style you know capitalist I don’t know I think there is room for nuance and that Nuance is not present in this article. So.

01:02:44.60
Geoff Openshaw
True story when I lived in edinburgh every morning I’d walk I’d walk down the Royal mile and I would kneel down before the statue of Adam smith and worship.

01:02:56.38
Jared
And then you felt an invisible hand like stroke your hair. So.

01:02:59.22
Geoff Openshaw
An invisible hand would lift would lift me up and tell me I was gonna have a great day. It was great. You would actually give me a good game. That’s so a good game on the tush.

01:03:06.13
Jared
If the invisible hand of Adam smith has been accused of sexual impropriety with Jeff as when he was a student at edtaborough. Okay.

01:03:11.16
Geoff Openshaw
But but no I was okay with it I gave consent. It was fine. He did and it just set me a great path for my data study National as it was dynamite um did you want to get to that other article about racism was.

01:03:21.39
Jared
Yeah, let’s let’s let let’s at least point at I think the point the listeners towards it really interesting article in the trib. A lot of our listeners might be angry that we ended with the trib. But here we go.

01:03:32.77
Geoff Openshaw
If you start with the trip. It’s okay, but never end with the trip.

01:03:36.43
Jared
Yeah, so tamara kemsley wrote a great article. Ah the headline being email after Schoolgirl’s suicide reflects lds leaders increased willingness to confront racism. So if you don’t know did I don’t know if this was addressed in depth. Ah, we we did talk last time I was on the show. We talked about the fbi’s investigation into racism in davis county utah ah so another thing that happened shortly after that study was released and some of the was starting to be analyzed.

01:03:57.56
Geoff Openshaw
Davis County. Yeah.

01:04:08.66
Jared
It was reported that a a young woman who was is black and also autistic and lived in davis county she was 10 years old and she committed suicide. She died by suicide um, and the and all science point to the being a result of bullying but both. Bullying because of her autism and also bullying because of the color of her skin and again and this happened in davis county where the fbi has been investigating. You know like and endemic racism. So ah so the so what it seems to have it was the article just acknowledges that you know the the. Though the church’s email didn’t specifically say this was in response to that. The email came out very quickly after that suicide occurred the tragic loss of life of this 10 year old girl and basically ah the the email from the church was. Um, encouraging people encouraging members of the church to be inclusive, not just accepting. Essentially they’re kind of like let’s step it up like it’s 1 thing to be like accepting and say oh yeah I all are alike unto god like the scripture says but let’s not just acknowledge the you know acceptance of all people let’s actually. Actively be inclusive and again I’m I’m I’m doing and paraphrasing here. But it’s it’s a very good article. We get quotes from a couple of really interesting ah perspectives 1 of them is a woman named kimberly apple white teeter. She’s a black latter day saint. She is a psychologist works in Salt lake city she has some really good perspectives on race and the church and how the church is you know responding to racism and trying to encourage better better behavior and better mindsets in our in our members the other really interesting person who’s quoted extensively in the article is a. I don’t know if it’s janan or jan graham russell I know who she is I follow her on Twitter I’ve but I’ve never heard her name pronounced out loud. She is a Mormon studies fellow at the university of utah and she is a ph d candidate working in towards a ph d and in Mormon studies and and history of the church. Anyway, it’s it’s a great article I think and it goes through some of the other things that the church has done in recent history president nelson a year ago in general conference talking about racism very explicitly in 1 of his talks dalan a chokes at ah, byu devotional actually putting up a banner underneath. His image as he gave his talk as he and saying black lives matter. Um, so anyway, it’s it’s good I really think all members should read this and part of the reason for that is you know this this email that’s being the sort of the subject of this article went out.

01:06:55.45
Jared
Just under the you know inspiration and news email that kind of just goes out to all members of the church who have a ah church account with an email address and I don’t know about you Jeff but I often ignore those emails I don’t I mean they you know they come out pretty often and I don’t always see them and even though I do see them I don’t always click through and so.

01:07:07.90
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

01:07:13.60
Jared
Important messages like this sometimes unfortunately get overlooked and so I think this article is really good because it draws attention to it and it then also deepens the discussion about like what the church is trying to do and how important it is for all of us for all of us I mean not just to point figures at Davis County or anyone else but to look inward and say. How am I part of the solution or how am I a part of the problem and how what am I doing to not just make sure I’m not racist or that I’m being inclusive but that how do I make sure that my ward is being inclusive that my mistake is being inclusive that we’re making changes together as a whole as a body to make. Zion Truly a place where all are welcome and all are being blessed and all are included anyway. Good article. Really good article.. Highly recommend it.

01:07:55.69
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah there’s a good article. Good thoughtful stuff. Well folks I think we’ll leave it there I would love to talk. There is a gri. Okay I’ll just I’ll link to it on the website. There’s an article in the desertt news that has not lds direct but it does have. It pertains like the family proclamation and things like that. But it’s interesting because it’s from desret news and it’s profiling breadwinner moms now and essentially arguing on their behalf. Ah the comments are I wouldn’t say the comments are disheartening. There’s ah, an interesting mix of comments on the desret news website about the sum saying like look we know it’s a woman’s role to dude. You know to nurture kids and to toter I think it’s just we’re all in different places and you know we got just think about what works best for all of us. But there’s a lot of cool data and it check it out again. It doesn’t explicitly go into the latter day saint side of it but you can obviously see how it pertains to our faith community and everything so it’s a. Worth checking it out I’m thankful for breadwinner moms my mom was 1 of them. My parents got divorced and because of my breadwinner Mom our our quality of life actually improved my mom went to college and had a career before she had kids. My dad did not and so she was able to get back to work where she was and have like a. Perfectly fine paying job and salary and take care of all of us. So that was our circumstance. Obviously it wasn’t like a married couple making choices in that sense. But you know yeah of course of of course they do and that’s the most important thing for us to remember like I think the hardest thing though is that data can show.

01:09:10.63
Jared
Well doesn’t the family proclamation say individual circumstances require you to? yeah yeah.

01:09:22.51
Geoff Openshaw
Outside of any of any religious persuasion that’s becoming increasingly difficult for single income homes with kids to make ends meet in the United states because of how much more expensive. It’s gotten a lot of people in many situations. Both spouses work out of necessity and sometimes it really is Necessity. You could argue like is it a necessity to have this house and these cars and maybe not sure that’s fine. Maybe you’re trying to support a lifestyle. You don’t need to have that’s ah that’s fine, but in many cases, it’s a necessity in our day and age to do that so you can afford to send your kids to college and afford to give them all those things. Not always of course every circumstance is different but that’s 1 of the big things that’s kind of changed I think we still try to have this ah this eisenhowerian view of the united states where you know dad can go dad father comes home dinner is ready on the table with his lovely wife darlene hello max how are things you know and just like these old. These old psas and sometimes I think is latter sense. We’re we’re sort of in that Era or we think that’s what we should always be aspiring to but anyway interesting article nonetheless. Just check it out I thought it was worth a read I don’t mean to opine too much on it. So other than that. Yeah. Jared unless you had any comments on bread-winning moms. But I think you’re.

01:10:30.59
Jared
I had read the article it. It came out. It was posted to my feed just right before we started ah our our set recording sessions I didn’t get a chance to look forget it. But I will and I am in favor of breadwinning moms. But my mom stayed at home but Kelsey’s mom

01:10:37.29
Geoff Openshaw
No there you go.

01:10:48.37
Jared
Because of circumstances in their family. She did go to work and you know was able to provide for the family but still be a really great mother like it’s you know we we can fulfill the roles that are expected of us or that we feel like we need to do but also fulfill other roles that because right.

01:11:00.52
Geoff Openshaw
And we can also not judge those who if there are women who who quote unquote don’t need to work Professionally I don’t like thinking of that but they do then. Okay, that’s their deal. It’s not our place to sit there and.

01:11:10.30
Jared
Yeah, but like and that’s the thing they’re like how how do how do you or I know if they need to right? I mean it’s not for us to make that judgment.

01:11:15.73
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it’s not It’s not our thing not our thing at all. So anyway, it’s been a delightful discussion. Thanks for tuning in everybody once again, go to this week in mormons dot com where you can get links to all the articles discussed on this terrific episode and we thank you for taking the time to tune in. We can’t make this show without you so please share it far and wide holidays can get busy. It can be hard to listen to the pod but we hope you’ll still take the time to do that and let your friends know about it Jared always great to see you buddy no man if we we don’t have you on for. Ah, if we don’t have you on for some news.

01:11:43.41
Jared
Thanks for having me on Jeff I love it here I love it here.

01:11:50.98
Geoff Openshaw
For the new year hits we’ll ah we’ll see what happens in 2022 it’ll be great. So all that good stuff and to you my friend folks happy December and we’ll talk to you later this has been this week of mormons I’m Jeff that was Jared we’ll talk to later but bye.

01:11:52.90
Jared
Fair Christmas and Happy New Year and all of that to you.

 

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