EP 573 – But What About Heavenly Mother?

TWiM_EP573_Heavenly_Mother
Rumors abound about a crackdown on extra-doctrinal discussions surrounding Heavenly Mother.

Hello! We’re glad you’re here for another week of Latter-day Saint news. Tiffany Hales, of the TWiM Sisters, is kind enough to join us to discuss the issues of the day! And we have plenty to cover.

Latter-day Saint News


Please Support the Show!

Be part of the community! Chip in $3 per month to help us keep this great show going. Your support makes it possible. Join Patreon today.

Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hey hello hello everyone how’s it going? Thank you for tuning into this week and mormons. It’s a pleasure to have you with us I’m Geoff Openshaw that’s right hybrid episode this week folks you get a little bit of me and 1 of the twin sisters. So it’s gonna be great.

00:06.43
Tiffany Hales
And I’m Tiffany Hales I know aianne doesn’t know I’m cheating on her with you I didn’t tell her I’m deciding if I’m going to tell her I’m just going to let her be surprised when she listens to the episode and go you cheated on me with Geoff.

00:25.71
Geoff Openshaw
I think you should let her be surprised and and I’ll let the record show I would love to have Keith cheat on her and do an episode with me just for fun, right? okay.

00:33.53
Tiffany Hales
Oh you know what? let me I will work on some arm twisting on that I may be able to I’m able to twist some arms and see if I could get Keith to agree to do that you you guys are like friend of meets.

00:46.10
Geoff Openshaw
We’re we’re like frenemiess so it could be a lot of fun. It could be great. It could be great. It could be a good time. Well ah we’re we’re glad you’re all like joined us this week we’ve got a lot of interesting things going on I mean learning about the true definition of the word cults. Should there be government programs to help you have a healthy marriage. They say it doesn’t work but then we should do it who knows um, the ward leadership in Utah gets sends the wrong signal about the republican caucus Ammon Bundy is a mormon behaving. Badly there’s lots of mormons behaving. Badly this week. It’s not be a lot of fun.

01:15.61
Tiffany Hales
Oh yes.

01:19.32
Geoff Openshaw
And and and some alleged remarks by the brethren about should we or should we not discuss heavenly mother to name a few things a couple of other items as well, but look forward to getting into it in in a few minutes but Tiffany how are you doing? How’s the life I know I know in a couple of weeks you andaryanne will be on and I don’t want to spoil the updates for that. But.

01:34.95
Tiffany Hales
Ah, it’s it’s quite all right I am busy kind of with 2 things. First of all today was pi day as I’m sure you all are aware and so um, our office we’re kind of in a new temporary building.

01:37.65
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, gotcha.

01:43.17
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

01:52.38
Tiffany Hales
And so to christen the new temporary building they invited us to bring pie and partake of pie together. However I really suck at making pido. So I made a cookie pie I made a some more cookie pie and it was it was delicious. In fact I made 2

01:58.88
Geoff Openshaw
It’s nice I think.

02:11.52
Tiffany Hales
And we just didn’t have very many people in the office. So I brought one home and my 17 year old son is not sad about that he was quite delighted when he when he came home and he’s like oh you did use 1 of the pies and i’s like no I did not use one of the pies.

02:25.47
Geoff Openshaw
There We go pie crust can be difficult I’m more of a fan of custard pies. So the pie crust ones of being a graham crackery or pick one base thing which is different but regular you know it’s It’s not. It’s not easy. Don’t don’t beat yourself up. That’s that’s tough me.

02:30.10
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

02:38.19
Tiffany Hales
Ah, well my husband does that for me, he says you don’t make your pie with love. That’s his that’s his 1 criticism of my cooking is you don’t make your pies with love exactly I’m yelling hate at the pies.

02:49.42
Geoff Openshaw
Are you just like instead you’re just yelling at it in the kitchen hate.

02:57.40
Tiffany Hales
So when I told him I was making pie for work. He’s like no, you can’t make pie and I said oh but I’m making cookie pie and he was like oh yeah, you’ll you’ll kill it at the cookie pie. Yeah exactly. So yeah.

03:03.81
Geoff Openshaw
Well oh cookie pie is awesome if I were to one more I probably would have preferred your cookie pie to other pies I don’t really care about but Apple pie No cherry pie. Not really no.

03:15.30
Tiffany Hales
I’m not a big fruit pie fan. So I had I didn’t want to eat my own cookie pie because I want to have others eat that so I had a little bit of a lemon meringue and a chocolate cream pie was very good.

03:25.47
Geoff Openshaw
I remember at our um at our word Christmas party you know a few months ago it was a little bit different because we hadn’t done a lot. We hadn’t really done any intodoor activity since covid and you guys talked about that too and you recorded then you know it was a little bit different vibe trying to figure that out one of the funny things though was that for dessert rather than of course having like just.

03:32.40
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

03:44.50
Tiffany Hales
Um, ah.

03:45.65
Geoff Openshaw
Pie sitting there and letting people cut into it on their own. It’s not spread germs. Everything was portioned out whether it was pies or cookies or brownies. Whatever onto individual plates for people to take which is fine but then the leftover game is totally different then because like I was sitting there like.

03:54.93
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

04:01.90
Geoff Openshaw
Do I take like all the pieces that are my leftovers and put them back in a tray like what do I do here? What is the play. Normally I just grab my container and move on but I’m like I can’t like take this back with how it’s been and so I think we got enterprising youth to be nice enough to take all of it. But it was ah.

04:21.10
Tiffany Hales
Um, that is a quandary.

04:21.22
Geoff Openshaw
Peculiar situation tiffany I mean I didn’t I didn’t it. It was quite a quandary. It was one of Quentin’s quandaries I don’t know if you remember that or 1 of our famous segments on this show longtime listeners but very longtime listeners might remember many many many years ago before the church’s digital game. Got a bit better and.

04:29.83
Tiffany Hales
I Do not.

04:39.70
Geoff Openshaw
They were thrilled to announce that elder Quentin O Cook was I believe the first apostle to write a blog post. That’s what it was like a blog post and so I think we joked him I think it was him that was president ballard but somehow we fell on elder cook doing it and like what he would name his blog and we decided his blog should be called Quentin’s quandaries because it just.

04:43.97
Tiffany Hales
Oh.

04:51.65
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

04:58.92
Geoff Openshaw
Like someone give this man a Pathos Column I don’t know why no one’s doing it I think we would we need this. He can tell us both about being an apostle and about being a health care executive. It’s perfect.

05:02.49
Tiffany Hales
Well.

05:08.13
Tiffany Hales
And and very good. Ah alliteration of your words there with quint’s condry.

05:11.86
Geoff Openshaw
Well, that was the idea. Yeah you know I mean if you had to do it today I mean Deter’s Diatribes I guess that we one of them I know I want to work through all of them now. But I’m not going to make listeners sit through 13 more of these while I try to think of alliterative names.

05:21.53
Tiffany Hales
But yeah, but I’m not.

05:31.43
Geoff Openshaw
But Russell’s rants that one’s easy boom and and daen’s Diatribes Henry’s ah, what’s a h word for like ranting or rave I don’t know.

05:32.28
Tiffany Hales
Oh oh, that’s a good one I like that one.

05:47.90
Tiffany Hales
Ah.

05:49.11
Geoff Openshaw
Henry’s hallucinations and you like Russell’s rants that.

05:51.63
Tiffany Hales
See I’m just still stuck on Russell’s rants where he can he could put on their you know rather than ranty he can say I invite you to do this and I invite you to do that and he could put all of his invites on his Russell’s rants

06:03.60
Geoff Openshaw
And it’s all about thevi one of my favorite inviters was ah elder Scott when he was still alive because you know how Scott always had this very calm delivery and he would always do this very subtle head cock this little tilt when he would say something more be like you.

06:14.80
Tiffany Hales
Yes, yes.

06:22.81
Geoff Openshaw
Can repent I love the man elder Scott when I was a kid was probably 1 of the one apostles I found boring. But then as I got older and like went on a mission stuff I found him like dude he but quickly became a favorite. It’s funny. How spiritual maturation can do things like that to you.

06:37.65
Tiffany Hales
It is very very true sell. Let’s do some news. Okay.

06:42.34
Geoff Openshaw
Well good Time. Let’s get down to some new some newsy newsy um a lot of I’m just gonna lead off with the one that I am passionate about here because this just cracks me Up. There’s no exact beat to be clear. There’s no. Exact way to verify this but unless somebody went to a lot of effort to doctor a fake email and then block out the like the personally identifiable information in it I don’t see how this wouldn’t be real. Okay, so let’s assume it’s real I think I’m okay with that this email from.

07:05.23
Tiffany Hales
Oh.

07:11.72
Tiffany Hales
Yes.

07:17.72
Geoff Openshaw
Monday March Seventh Two Thousand and twenty two re is from a war in Utah it says brother brethren and sisters. Our caucus is at benyan junior high sign in and registration start at six zero P M and the meeting itself starts at seven p M we hope you can attend thanks the sixty Sixth Ward Bishop brick um

07:36.91
Tiffany Hales
Um, it does.

07:37.15
Geoff Openshaw
Reading that it seems quite innocuous right? like a simple like hey everyone come out. We’re doing this thing at six zero Pm ah but the the devil is in the details as they say in this case Benan Junior high was hosting the republican caucus Utah doesn’t do primaries the republican caucus for.

07:49.78
Tiffany Hales
Um.

07:55.20
Geoff Openshaw
State of Utah the political sense now I don’t think there’s anything wrong with local leadership telling you to get involved with a caucus meeting or what have you I mean they might say they might say that I believe the issue that people were for the people took with this is that the phrasing is says.

08:03.51
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

08:12.98
Tiffany Hales
Um, ah, ah exactly.

08:14.30
Geoff Openshaw
Our caucus not caucus because the democratic caucus is not until next week in Utah at the time. Ah at the time of recording so by saying our caucus. They are literally saying our caucus is the republican caucus the wards caucus is tonight at benyan junior high I mean.

08:30.48
Tiffany Hales
Ah, it’s.

08:32.53
Geoff Openshaw
I Think it’s an an innocent faux Pa but it’s indicative of like the bigger issue of the assumptions within our culture. So.

08:37.87
Tiffany Hales
It is so true. It is so true. And yeah, you know my and again even if it was just you know hey the caucus is tonight I I still don’t know about sending it out through the ward email through using Church Church functions you know if both the democratic and ri ah republican caucus were held on the same night then I wouldn’t have a problem with it hey we ask you to be involved politically the caucuses are tonight go find to the caucus you want to attend and attend kind of like they do with voting but to specifically target the republican caucus because. I kind of doubt next week with the democratic caucuses being held that they’re probably going to have an email that goes out that says our caucuses tonight at such and such a place. So yeah I mean maybe now they will I don’t know it just really.

09:24.33
Geoff Openshaw
Maybe now they will check that material.

09:30.51
Tiffany Hales
To me it just really blurs the lines and I don’t like the blurring of the lines and it feeds into that cultural stereotype of oh if you’re a good mormon you’re republican good mormons are not Democrats and I don’t like I don’t appreciate that cultural stereotype.

09:42.68
Geoff Openshaw
I yeah or even if they sent an email prior to either caucus and said hey brother and and sisters in March there will most political parties have caucuses right? and it’s and it’s even dangerous to assume the 2 wo-party thing like you know for all, you know you’ve got green party people or libertarians who also want a caucus in Utah.

09:56.23
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, oh or at Idaho we have constitutional party anyway, sorry.

10:02.66
Geoff Openshaw
So you yeah Yeahp Yeahp Um, so like yeah if you if there would be nothing wrong wrong with saying there are coxes this month here’s information about every single one of them where here’s links to the various parties. However, you vote that’s fine like that’s fine too like you did, but.

10:11.84
Tiffany Hales
Ah, yeah. Yeah I’d have problem with that.

10:20.20
Geoff Openshaw
They’re not They’re not appropriately covering the basis here. What I’m curious about I don’t know where the sixty sixth ward would be that’s a very generic ward name and where do we have places where there’s 66 wards and where the wards have not yet been renamed to things like you know, like the sudden valley ward and stuff like that like where is there 66 wards that. We could nail this down I could go look into lcr and try to dig something up, but that would take too long for the time we have a show.

10:44.77
Tiffany Hales
I’m wondering if it would be again it looking at you know like Salt Lake county has a very is very mixed in terms of republican and Democrats but when you are looking at solidly republican areas of Utah.

10:53.43
Geoff Openshaw
Yes.

10:58.99
Tiffany Hales
You go into Utah County so I’m wondering if that sixty sixth ward is maybe an orum ward or a provo ward. Although what was the high school Ben and junior high. Let’s find out where Ben and junior high is.

11:03.79
Geoff Openshaw
All right hold up hold up. Oh yeah, Benny and junior high sorry that’s hold up real time sleuthing people that’s funny because my search history already says.

11:16.18
Tiffany Hales
Oh yeah.

11:20.28
Geoff Openshaw
Okay, benja and junior high school assuming this is the same one is in Salt Lake City itself which is which is interesting now I looked up the meeting house loca locator very quickly and just typed in sixty sixth ward only wards that show up though. There’s a west jordan sixty Sixth Ward West jordan I could see doing but that’s not Salt Lake city so I don’t know what that would be about.

11:22.94
Tiffany Hales
Oh.

11:29.83
Tiffany Hales
Um, ah. Yeah.

11:40.12
Geoff Openshaw
There’s a west jordan sixty sixth ward a provo y a sixty sixth ward a rexburg ys a sixty sixth ward and that is it after that it’s other virgins one hundred and sixty sixth sixth 26 stuff like that. Um, but if Ben Junior high is in Salt Lake City oh oh no this might be it. Sorry.

11:49.83
Tiffany Hales
Huh.

11:54.16
Tiffany Hales
Ok, but is.

11:59.16
Geoff Openshaw
This must be the I apologize the mailing address is Salt Lake city and I don’t know if the boundaries of Salt Lake city really it can’t actually be there Ben your junior high school is basically located in Taylorville so this it’s the it’s the West Jordan one so that’s what we’re learning there. We go so the west jordan 66 Awardd people. Um.

12:06.84
Tiffany Hales
Oh well, there you go. It’s the West Valley ward or West Jordan excuse me.

12:18.40
Geoff Openshaw
Now if you really want we can name the bishop. No I won’t do that on the air. But but you can find it yourself if you’re really interested and want to look into this so anyway it just but it’s not is this the end of the world. No does it reinforce the idea of 1 party rule in Utah and that mormons republicans. Yes, and that doesn’t do any any of us any favors that doesn’t help us move.

12:33.54
Tiffany Hales
It does.

12:38.20
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, needle at all. So.

12:38.24
Tiffany Hales
No no, it doesn’t all right? Do you want to since we’re since we’re on the issue of politics. Do you want to move on to another ah political story. So.

12:46.16
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah. I yet.

12:53.14
Tiffany Hales
This one was it was it was actually a feature in the desret news that I saw happened to see yesterday but I had heard about this guy and I had looked him up. Um, he is the speaker of the house in Arizona and his name is Rusty Bowers and i.

13:08.81
Geoff Openshaw
Oh yeah.

13:10.97
Tiffany Hales
Probably heard of him about six weeks ago because he was kind of um he was kind of bucking the tide so to speak in Arizona and so I looked him up and sure enough he is a member of the church. He actually graduated from ah Byu with an art. With an art degree and he’s kind of a renowned artist and so anyway so desret news picked it up and did a feature story on him because here’s kind of what makes him unique as you know, um in the presidential election last year Arizona was essentially a swing state. It used to be very red. It’s now turned quite purple and um Trump Narrowly lost Arizona by about 10000 votes and so there was a lot of pressure on doing voting recounting down there and you know stop the steel and um, he is a Trump supporter. But when the election um with the issues surrounding election integrity came up. He just flat out put his foot down and he said no, we don’t have election integrity issues here in Arizona I’m not going to entertain the idea of election integrity issues I’m not going to entertain the idea of um, you know. Of relooking at everything although they did um but he just was very much It’s not going to change the results and sure enough it. It didn’t and he has um, faced some political pushback as a result of that. Um, because the um people who believe yes there was a steel. Ah, want to see him out of power. He is not going to run for the house of representatives. He’s chosen to run for a senate seat in Arizona so he will be a state senate seat so he will be giving up his power. Ah as chairman of the house of representatives which.

14:48.47
Geoff Openshaw
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

14:59.80
Tiffany Hales
Um, or speaker of the house of representatives which is really um, you know quite a powerful position and so it’s it’s yet to be seen how this will play out but the article also talks about his art background and that he had gone to a high school art class and I thought this was really interesting and his. After the first day his teacher said you know I’ll make you a deal if you will produce a painting painting each week from Ted Kazoo skis ways with watercolor his teacher would offer him feedback and and improvement and he did that then he went to beu he served a mission and he came back and he discovered actually that. He’s a very talented sculptor and his sculptures I know he’s very reissance. Yeah, so his sculptures apparently are all over ah the statehouse in Arizona so quite an interesting. Um.

15:39.73
Geoff Openshaw
But this man does it all. He does he. He’s a regular patch adamms. Yeah, he just doesn’t.

15:57.17
Tiffany Hales
Interesting individual down there in political power.

15:59.10
Geoff Openshaw
That’s a ah I feel like this is my opportunity to inflict an unnecessary dig at Arizona because that’s what I do um I’m sure his artwork is lovely. But there’s very little you can do to beautify Arizona’s statehouse that’s all if you’ve been there. It has an older. It has like an older building. That’s.

16:13.87
Tiffany Hales
I’ve never been there.

16:16.77
Geoff Openshaw
Fine and you can go inside and it’s a museum but the book of the capital is the building behind it which is just an office building so plenty of states have uninspiring capital complexes. So it’s not really fair to just like dunk on Arizona or anything like that. It’s fine though. The little esplanade the boulevard that kind of approaches. It is neat. They they honor war heroes and things like that.

16:20.67
Tiffany Hales
Ah.

16:36.39
Geoff Openshaw
Kind of fun. It’s just over there in West Phoenix so next time you’re in Phoenix and.

16:41.19
Tiffany Hales
I’ll check it out so he said I I think I misspoke it says every sculpture in the Arizona house of representatives building has his name on it. So maybe not the whole capital complex and it also says his work is featured at various latter day. Saint. Church history sites across the country. So anyway.

16:58.83
Geoff Openshaw
So ah, you can see a picture of their capitol building right? there too in the bottom. Um, that’s cool. It’s his artwork featured in meeting house foyers I doubt it I don’t think he made the cut I don’t think he’s part of that but that’s that’s fun for him. He should run for the US senate seat that’s going up because ah.

17:09.85
Tiffany Hales
Don’t think so yeah.

17:18.72
Geoff Openshaw
There’s an election coming up again this year for the senate and Arizona’s governor doug dusy elected not to go for the seat. So I don’t know what’s going to happen. Can’t go for Martha Mcsally she lost twice people. There’s no point doing that.

17:22.10
Tiffany Hales
Who so who so who holds that senate seat right now because Kristen Cinema was just recently elected what two years ago she’s up on 4 years ah okay

17:32.52
Geoff Openshaw
Okay, now she’s almost up on 4 years so it’s ah not Kelly is up he he has taken. Yeah, he’s the astronaut brother because of the way the terms have actually lined up with all sorts of things and John Mccain’s death and all all kinds of things like that. It’s up for reelection again even though he just took office.

17:40.44
Tiffany Hales
The Astronaut brother. Yeah.

17:52.34
Geoff Openshaw
Less than a year ago. So fun times. Um, Tiffany I’m going to guess that it’s been a while since you or I has been to institute me neither. Um, even though it’s a you know it’s for young adults not just young single adults.

17:53.10
Tiffany Hales
Well, that will be very interesting.

18:01.80
Tiffany Hales
Have not been to institute in a while.

18:12.80
Geoff Openshaw
I did every now and then in my institute days I would meet married people who would go there I admit I would ask myself why what are you doing? You’re married now. This is a social gathering. Let’s not pretend. It’s anything else. But you know what are you gonna do and this shows why I didn’t love institute very much because my approach was how can I meet women through this experience of institute. And that’s why I rarely went when I lived in California though I went a lot more when I moved out to Dc because this too there is raging but you absolutely go for the after party. It is off the hook and I would go to get Facetime with my now wife I’m not gonna lie and I’m and I’m not ashamed. Got to get to face time. You know, got to get in there.

18:43.80
Tiffany Hales
Oh there is no shame in your game. Yeah.

18:51.61
Geoff Openshaw
Gotta do the fate. That’s the you gotta get your name on him. My wife Danielle was very popular. She hates it when I talk like this she taught gospel doctrine and when I first moved into the ward moved to Dc her class was full of nothing but men who were all trying to hit on her and we joke about this now and she knows it was true because and afterwards I’d be like lining up to try to flirt with her. Little by little it thinned out as they either went on a date with her and nothing went anywhere or might have been rejected or what have you but it was painfully obvious. You’d go to the other gospel doctrine classes and it was a normal balance of genders but in Danielle’s class it was just a big boy party I’ll hoping to get in there I won so that’s fun. But.

19:25.80
Tiffany Hales
I was going to say how how did you make the cut Geoff.

19:29.41
Geoff Openshaw
So it took a long time Daniela did not date organically like I met her we dated we fell in love yada yada ya we we went out once and nothing early on and nothing really happened and then over time we actually just kind of became best friends and best friendship evolves into love and forced marriages. So.

19:33.30
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

19:45.18
Tiffany Hales
And that’s always a good basis for a marriage.

19:47.80
Geoff Openshaw
Was great. Yeah yeah, you’ll learn I told her I told her you’ll learn to love me and she said all right? What I’ve always wanted is to marry a political science major who will who has no clear career trajectory This is the dream there. We go.

20:01.39
Tiffany Hales
Hey you’re giving me hope for my 17 year old son who wants to be a political science. Major yeah.

20:06.83
Geoff Openshaw
If feel like once I mean if you you could do stuff with it. It just depend. We’re going do it is a degree that in many senses is pointless because you could also get involved in politics if you study communications or sociology or any number of things I don’t feel like my degree in any way gave me some kind of a leg up on that front my grad degree. Maybe.

20:18.80
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

20:26.46
Geoff Openshaw
But anyway so institute folks the church is actually trying to revamp a lot of institute and since I’m kind of out of this area I don’t think much about this but this is a a lengthy article over at the church news by Sidney Walker sort of covering the a lot of pilot programs. They’ve instituted at institute. In order to reach the kids better and a lot of this is because I think they’ve seen that people might not be coming to institute. They feel like institute might not be a place for them to feel safe with certain questions or views and that the article is very matter of fact, like I said I’m paraphrasing but essentially saying like like my one of my siblings is gay. How do I work through this as a latter day saint.

20:58.91
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

21:03.45
Geoff Openshaw
As and as one who wants to be active in the faith and let them feel loved and let them feel like they have a purpose and I appreciate. They’re Frank about that. Not trying to kind of sweep that under the rug. But so it’s not just the content though. That’s part of it for sure. They’re trying to make sure people feel. They’re safe. They’re relevant that they’re able to reach individuals in the digital age. They can’t. And this even goes as far as um, trying to minimize the use of powerpoint or things like that instead they’re trying to embrace huge dry race boards and get a collaborative spirit going on but even down to the decor they’re using the setups to the classrooms. The types of chairs they are using. They’re trying to make institute for lack of a better term cool.

21:24.15
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

21:41.21
Geoff Openshaw
And I guess it seems to be working I don’t full disclosure church news is is a borderline Pr wing of the church as opposed to Full-b Blown Journalism in many ways. So I don’t think they’re going to report on both if it’s not succeeding per se but I thought this was very interesting to get a behind the scenes look at what they’re doing at institute.

21:52.69
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

22:00.49
Geoff Openshaw
And what they’re trying to what they’re trying to change and how they’re trying to reach a rising generation where there’s a lot of concern about these teenagers who are entering young adulthood. There’s a lot of concern about them leaving the church. A lot of concern about them getting information from other places.

22:06.14
Tiffany Hales
Um, ah. Um, yeah.

22:16.92
Geoff Openshaw
And and and you know me I’m like not the person in line to jump on the only approved sources bandwagon for things like I think use those but like you could also look I don’t I don’t know that rough stone rolling is an approved source. But I think everyone should read it right? It’s it’s important. Um.

22:21.39
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

22:28.50
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

22:32.22
Geoff Openshaw
Care a lot about the youth and I love seeing what the church is doing to embrace it I can’t think of like 1 main like takeaway 1 main callout from what they’re doing here. It’s just kind of a grab bag of info but I don’t know if you read it tiffany if there was anything that jumped out of you that you thought was noteworthy that they’re up to.

22:45.81
Tiffany Hales
You know one of the things that I really liked because I’ve got kids in that young adult range and um, you know who are who who span the the spectrum of belief in the gospel and um.

22:51.27
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

23:03.35
Tiffany Hales
You know I I think that with these kids today just like what they’re saying in the article this is not your parents institute that if they want to reach those kids and they want to attempt to keep those kids um because a lot of them. You know are like do I want to stay do I want to go. They have to use ways that reach them and that’s what I liked about this is they’re trying to be innovative in how they reach them and probably one of my favorite things was the classroom redesign because they got rid of the dang carpet that goes up the wall which is standard issue in all church buildings. It does not matter. The carpet goes halfway up the wall and so it looks you know they’ve got fun paint colors in there in the in the pictures that they have online. It looks like they’ve got yellow some yellow paint and they also have kind of a full on mural photograph on one of the walls and so it does not. Look it does not look churchy at all and so I really like that and just the chairs and everything and again you know that’s that’s the environment and the environment sets the mood for how the kids learn but they’re also changing kind of the learning styles too. And so I think it’s kind of a combination of both and I liked it I think it’s a good thing. You know let’s let’s try it and see if it works.

24:22.71
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, it’s kind of when you look at all this it almost seems like oh so we’re trying to be more like evangelicals right to reach them I mean we’re a couple we’re just got a couple rock for Jesus Sessions away from just doing the whole thing 1 thing I did find interesting and this is just the polemicist in me so forgive me dear listeners. And makes a note to say that they’re trying to make courses that are more relevant to today’s students and 1 example is a course on repentance and forgiveness using the book the divine gift of forgiveness by elder Neil L Anderson of the corm of the 12 apostles I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with that except except we go back to the approved sources concept right.

25:00.48
Tiffany Hales
Ah.

25:00.94
Geoff Openshaw
Apostles are publishing books a desret book there. There’s usually disclaimers that say it’s not an official publication of the church. It is written by Neil L Anderson more or less not. It’s not not as a person who happens to be an apostle but it does not represent an official official publication or book.

25:08.88
Tiffany Hales
As a person.

25:19.33
Geoff Openshaw
Done by the church saying this is the church’s law. We blur the line a lot and understandably so and I rarely think you’re going to like yeah you you run the risk of running a foul or anything from reading a book that an impossible happens to have written but that approach intrigues me.

25:22.29
Tiffany Hales
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

25:34.48
Geoff Openshaw
Strictly because it is not an actual church publication. It’s church adjacent but we’re using it for manuals and if we’re doing that. How is that really functional, any different from other things we could use for manuals, you know and I mean it’s a step above Cs Lewis don’t get me started on that. That’s a thing I think of Cs Lewis has great ones too.

25:37.10
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

25:43.49
Tiffany Hales
Exactly.

25:52.57
Geoff Openshaw
It’s great. It’s wonderful. But when we talk about we talk about all the time now. Good sources. You know things that are not like we said lazy learners. Good sources approved church approved sources are the right thing to do, but it’s like Cs Lewis was not a member of our church. We don’t publish CSLewis’s books we just think he had some good insights so that just open if we’re going to quote him in general conference like why.

25:55.50
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

26:02.82
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

26:09.23
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

26:12.49
Geoff Openshaw
I should be able to quote you know Rahm Emanuel if I really want to I don’t know why he popped in my head. But yeah rom emanuel in general conference everybody anyway, good times at institute sorry to people done sorry.

26:21.12
Tiffany Hales
Yes, nope that’s ok, all right? Oh. How about we talk about b why you cracks down on y mountain. So um, we have talked about this a lot in the last couple of months um simply because be way you was kind of cracking down on protests. Um for lgtb q students but they were saying all protests but the primary Target seems to be http://lglgbt q students and so you. You have to have b wise use permission to protest and if 2 or more people are gathered in some sort of a protest without b I use permission. They call that a protest if there is protest like behavior. Anyway, so about a year ago they did a a rainbow light they lighted the y with a rainbow and that um, be why you was not. They were a little cranky about that that did not make them very happy so they posted they posted all sorts of signs and said.

27:21.47
Geoff Openshaw
There What are we cranky.

27:29.45
Tiffany Hales
No no, you may not light the writ you may not light the y you may not do anything with the why you have to leave the y alone and so when they did that a couple months ago I thought to myself. How are they going to just stop students from going up there and holding their flashlights up. You know that have colors or however they want to do this. And um, this week we got the answer and I saw the picture. So if you’ve ever visited any sort of a construction site. They have kind of this orange plastic fencing that they like to put up usually between um poles that they put in the ground.

27:49.17
Geoff Openshaw
There’s a way. There’s a way that.

28:05.29
Tiffany Hales
And so what they did this week because they did not want a repeat of what happened a year ago they um put some poles in the ground and they cut off access to the why with this orange fencing and I’m not entirely sure how far the orange fencing goes around but it goes around pretty far and then they put lots of signs that said. Don’t cross the orange fencing this is trespassing because if you remember last year um there were kind of people who were up in arms on both sides of this issue. Some people thought it was great. Other people thought they have vandalized the why they should all be in jail well they hadn’t they hadn’t physically done any damage to the why. Um, because I think like I said I think they were using some sort of flashlights or something that had color on it. So there was no physical damage so they couldn’t arrest them for um, for vandalism and they had not appropriately said you can’t be in this area so there wasn’t a trespassing issue.

28:53.63
Geoff Openshaw
Prevent What have.

29:02.63
Tiffany Hales
And so they um they have taken care of that Now. So The why will only be lit with however it is that be why you wants it to be lit I’ll be curious to see if that fence stays and how long that fence stays. Because I don’t know if this is just temporary because the anniversary was coming up on when they lit the why and they wanted to make sure that didn’t happen again or if this is going to be permanent because you know who’s to say there’s not going to be some underground organization of you know, hey on May third, let’s go up and light the way with rainbows. Um, you know I don’t know so it’ll it’ll be interesting because one of the points is is that when be why you purchase this land from the federal government they were supposed to keep access to the why open and so this fence clearly cuts off access to the why. So.

29:50.69
Geoff Openshaw
No.

29:57.65
Tiffany Hales
I It’s going to be really interesting to see how this kind of continues to play out.

30:02.50
Geoff Openshaw
I Mean yeah President worthen said at the time that they looked forward to sharing why mountain with our neighbors friends and visitors. This is a big deal because the mountain was actually it was. It’s land that was run by the Us forest service and then they they picked it up. Yeah like a lot of the west and um.

30:09.32
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, who’s yeah was government.

30:19.40
Geoff Openshaw
School still has authority to enforce restrictions though. But I think it’s kind of funny like this whole thing going back to it I mean hiking the why at night has been a thing at Byu for a very long time right? They’re saying it’s a safety issue but like 4 decades students have hiked the y. Their flashlights. Whatever peacefully at night cause you go up there. Beautiful night view of Utah Valley whatever you want you know and it’s just ah, it disappoints me when we try to make up a little bit of a scapego right? We just it’s it’s just for everyone’s safety. We can’t let them up there. It’s oh yeah, okay, okay, okay, weird times man. What.

30:36.59
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

30:44.74
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

30:54.25
Geoff Openshaw
What’s going on there in Provo. It’s just a. It’s kind of bizarre to me to me in many many ways. Um I am also gonna go into more stuff that is conjecture. That’s right folks another one that I can’t prove is real but I’m choosing to believe it based on the sources in question. So.

30:54.64
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

31:12.45
Geoff Openshaw
This came out kind of mid-last week. Um, ah a number of people started chattering on Twitter a little bit on Facebook about some sort of training or something that happened some kind of an event with elders christopherson in Holland in Utah where they basically spoke about. That we’re being inappropriate about heavenly mother. Once again I want to lead off. We have no way of proving any of this There’s no public record of it but many many many people have commented on Twitter for example and screenshot emails. They’ve received.

31:31.64
Tiffany Hales
Are.

31:48.41
Geoff Openshaw
And seems to be enough individuals might have been part of this training in Utah that they have come forward and corroborated the exact same thing. So while some of the verbiage might be a little bit different here and there I’m inclined to believe this actually took place but we don’t have any proof about it. But I still think this is better than just a flat out rumor or anything like that. So just. So we’re clear about that. The other thing to remember if this if this training occurred it was a training in Utah this was not a training for the entire church. This was not a broadcast for all leadership in the church. This was a Utah thing that’s not to say that Utah doesn’t sometimes serve as a microcosm for the church at large and the brethren kind of get ideas for how the church is going. It’s a barometer.

32:20.63
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

32:26.70
Geoff Openshaw
Same time as well, right? So So be that what it may. Um, allegedly they said there were a few things that were not appropriate one including our crediting heavenly mother in the creation or the plan of salvation. It’s like just saying she was involved in it or she help create the world 2 referring to her or teaching about her in Church. It’s heavenly parents and that should not be capitalized so this was the one that that stuck out of makes I thought like interesting we’re if we’re this is true and we’re saying not to talk much about heavenly mother like the young women’s theme now says I’m the daughter of heavenly parents. But I guess they’re noting that heavenly parents is not capitalized in the way that we capitalize God him.

32:54.69
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

33:05.19
Geoff Openshaw
Savior lord things like that praying to her is inappropriate and then it says they emphasize that Jesus only taught about the father and we should be doing what he said and that he never mentioned the mother and the last thing in this one particular thread as I’ve seen it mentioned in in detail by several different people in separate places and they said the same thing. And there’s people have feelings about this. So first of all I am a man I recognize for me to talk and and kind of talk about heavenly mother and the feelings one has for her not that I can’t have those feelings as well. But it is different and like I don’t I want to empathize but I don’t completely I can’t I can’t.

33:36.67
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

33:43.32
Geoff Openshaw
Synthesize all of those feelings. Perhaps that women do might experience having a yearning for a heavenly mother and understanding her better as women, you might just want that maternal relationship with deity. So I understand that even if I don’t like understand it I Just hope we can be clear by that I’m sensitive to that I understand what’s going on there.

33:50.93
Tiffany Hales
Now.

34:00.61
Geoff Openshaw
But I do find if if there’s truth it is I think it’s very interesting and and very very nitpicky in a way as well. But before I go much further Tiffany Obviously as a as a woman. Um, how the real of the record Stay. What. Where do you like? where do you fall on this. How are you on the heavenly mother spectrum.

34:20.38
Tiffany Hales
You know I really did like the addition to the young women’s theme of heavenly parents I was like yes that is that is awesome. Um, you know I I have never and again not to discount women who have felt like this yearning that hey.

34:26.69
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

34:39.84
Tiffany Hales
I need to understand my heavenly mother more I I have never felt that yearning. Um you know and and and I’m not sure why that is if it’s just because you know I had such an incredible earthly mother and she passed away when I was very young I was 22 and so. When I am needing kind of that spiritual woman in my life I am turning and thinking about and you know communicating in the way that I communicate with my mom who’s on the other side of the veil saying hey Mom I could I could use some help here and so I Suppose. I didn’t have that maybe I would feel differently about heavenly mother. Um, because when it to a certain extent when I think of heavenly mother to me I Think of my my real mom because she is very much in in a spirit form to me so you know I just I.

35:25.67
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

35:33.94
Tiffany Hales
I I haven’t I don’t have super strong feelings on that probably more so based on just my personal experience but like I said I do like the fact that we do acknowledge parents. And that the and it’s a reminder to the young women that you know hey you have parents you have a heavenly mother and a heavenly father. You know I I Still you know for? whatever reason why we don’t spend more time discussing her talking about her I mean there’s lots of. Reasons why they they say that is so some of which I’m like ok yeah, maybe maybe not but it’s just not.. It’s not a Hill I’ve ever wanted to die On. Let’s put it that way. Yeah.

36:16.31
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and like that’s okay, like like you’re you’re being very clear that you’re not you know, knocking that this or anything like that and there’s there’s a great body of work out there. There are many people who’ve written about heavenly mother contemplating heavily mother mother there are books of poetry about heavenly mother and and me.

36:26.77
Tiffany Hales
Yeah. I think Carolyn Pearson has done a lot of hasn’t she yeah.

36:36.15
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and so is ah rachelsteinbli. Yeah, there’s there’s interesting stuff out there I guess I could understand from a church leadership perspective like I’ve been in leadership callings and we’ve we’ve been taught many times not specifically about this but of the importance that we teach correct doctrine that we not be errant or speculative. Perhaps.

36:51.37
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

36:56.12
Geoff Openshaw
In our meetings. Um, heavily mother’s an interesting thing because we don’t we we know very little about her. We know she exists and we also know about her exclusively because of latter day revelation of what’s happened since the restoration there’s nothing in scripture about her like I mean you you can pick up things apart and talk about like whether um, you know like the word elohim.

37:04.47
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, yeah.

37:15.90
Geoff Openshaw
Actually translates to a plural God and so that implies heavenly mother things like that you could do that. But at the end of the day we don’t have a lot of specifics about heavenly mother on the flip side. So so of course we shouldn’t speculate necessarily. We shouldn’t perhaps go Beyond What has been revealed for for knowledge. So I understand that perspective.

37:21.87
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

37:33.91
Geoff Openshaw
Completely and it makes sense like because otherwise we’re running the risk of kind of creating our own doctrine like we could do that about anything not just have only mother at the same time since our knowledge about heaven mother comes from latter day revelation I feel that it’s not that it comes this easily but we could also say like.

37:36.85
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

37:51.36
Geoff Openshaw
Well is there anything against like the prophets inquiring to understand more about heavenly mother and sharing that with the people. Um, like we know we don’t try to shame or pressure the church into action on any 1 thing that doesn’t exact that doesn’t end. Well, it’s not the way things things get done in a positive sense but you do stuff to wonder that like well like.

37:54.97
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

38:07.30
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, yeah.

38:10.92
Geoff Openshaw
We’re not looking for anything new here like where this something that’s been wholly revealed in our latter days and and just like if you can issue an update to the word of wisdom a couple. Not an update to the word of wisdom but a a clarifier about the word of wisdom a few years ago which is also a modern day law a latter day law. You could do it for other things but we don’t know why they’ve elected not to and.

38:19.90
Tiffany Hales
Are.

38:29.24
Geoff Openshaw
Anything Beyond that is just conjecture on our part the whole idea of like oh they want to protect her any of that. That’s just stuff we’re all making up. So so I think it’s interesting I would be I mean I’d be dismayed but I do understand like I’m indifferent on the crediting with the plan of salvation praying to heavenly mother I get.

38:33.67
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, exactly exactly.

38:47.92
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

38:48.92
Geoff Openshaw
That because I think heaven Jesus was pretty clear like pretty of the father in my name and so we have to be careful but I also don’t think we should squash people’s hopes and desires to understand something higher in deity something that we that we don’t know lastly facetiously.

38:59.86
Tiffany Hales
There.

39:07.55
Geoff Openshaw
If this is true that they actually emphasize that like Jesus only taught about the father and we should be and that’s what we should focus on oh boy, how do I say this without sounding wrong it. It could sound like we’re limiting ourselves to only investigating those things specifically that Jesus taught in general.

39:21.69
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

39:24.77
Geoff Openshaw
And while he is our example and our savior our exemplar all those things. Um, there are other things that we have in the latter days that have come from revelation from Jesus and the doctrine in covenants but weren’t necessarily like his teaching is in his ministry I mean whether that is like like I said the word of wisdom for example, um, like all the general conference talks on pornography. Yeah.

39:29.42
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

39:44.81
Geoff Openshaw
There’s don’t mention of pornography in the scriptures like we don’t have those things So so we don’t want to limit ourselves too much. So ah anyway, that’s my ah, that’s my bit there I think this is an interesting development mostly I’m curious to see if more comes of it or not like if there’s people who are afraid general conference might hint on this or there’s gonna be some kind of global leadership training or I don’t know so.

39:45.17
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:54.16
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

40:01.30
Tiffany Hales
Well, or maybe there was just an area of Utah that it was just getting a little out of control and they were like hey let’s let’s clamp down on this and let’s not let’s not this expand based on conjecture you know, just like what you said more? So than we want it to because.

40:05.69
Geoff Openshaw
And maybe you.

40:17.88
Geoff Openshaw
Oh yeah, yeah.

40:20.52
Tiffany Hales
You know when it when it expands like that then all of a sudden you know it’s blurring the lines between doctrine and conjecture and culture and all of that.

40:29.62
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, all those famous feminists from Daybreak you know who you are.

40:33.71
Tiffany Hales
There you go all right jump roping shall I talk about our ah you know I always love a good Idaho story. You know how I feel about a good Idaho story.

40:44.64
Geoff Openshaw
I You can have all the audio stuff you want right now.

40:49.41
Tiffany Hales
Ah, okay, so there is a missionary right now and he is from Idaho and I looked him up. He’s actually from rexburg and I I mean like he legit lives in rexburg he’s just not like going to school there and so he.

41:01.17
Geoff Openshaw
They exist I went out with a girl once whose family is from Rexburg they’re did. They’re real people non so non-student. That’s a thing.

41:08.82
Tiffany Hales
Me being the person who’s never been north of idaho falls and never been to rexburg you know Rexburg is just a figment of my imagination. The what they have a supermarket in rexburg.

41:13.40
Geoff Openshaw
Oh you’re missing out they have Mr They have the supermarket. They have a supermarkt. It’s incredible. They have shopping. There’s a Walmart. There’s there’s a jack in the box.

41:25.60
Tiffany Hales
But pretty soon they’re going to have two temples. Oh anyway, so his name is Porter Ballard which of course begs the question. Yeah.

41:30.97
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it’s it’s quite. It’s a scene.

41:38.11
Geoff Openshaw
That’s the most Mormon name ever. So.

41:41.36
Tiffany Hales
What is his relation to president Ballard or Elder Ballard as the case may be anyway so he is on his mission in Norway now and before he left on his mission. Um, he can. He’s in Hungary. Oh yes, he went to the world.

41:51.42
Geoff Openshaw
He oh sorry is he’s in Hungary he’s at home. It’s not normal.

41:58.26
Tiffany Hales
Jump roping competition in Norway sorry about that yes, he is in hungry so before he left on his mission. He went to this world jump roping competition in Norway and and was part of an international jump roping team that competed on Britain’s got talent and he’s just a very good jump roper.

42:13.23
Geoff Openshaw
And.

42:16.88
Tiffany Hales
And when I looked him up. He’s got a brother who jump ropes too. So I guess they must be kind of like a jump roping family and so well what else you going to do in Rex Park hello

42:22.59
Geoff Openshaw
It is’s not so that’s a thing a jumpop program.

42:30.45
Geoff Openshaw
Just but what’s your family like well we’re all pretty into joke roping. It’s what we do. We hit the town. We go to the iring center and just jump and jump and jump. So.

42:36.55
Tiffany Hales
Yeah anyway, so he’s trying to decide if he’s going to go on a mission and he if he’s going to keep jump roping competitively and internationally or if he’s going to go on a mission. And he is landscaping one day and he overheard his client saying that if it weren’t for the missionaries. He wouldn’t be where he was today so he took that as his sign to go on a mission so he’s on a mission but alas his jump roping skills are continuing you know fortunately, a jump rope is a little small item. You can easily. Pack in your suitcase on your mission to took his jump rope with him and he’s teaching people to jump rope he’s doing shows. Um, inviting people to come watch him jump rope and so he is using his jump rope and his jump roping skills as a missionary tool.

43:11.23
Geoff Openshaw
Oh he’s keeping it going.

43:30.22
Tiffany Hales
Keeping up his training there. So good for Elder ballard.

43:33.70
Geoff Openshaw
I ah but before you do more idaho I’m gonna do a quick quick station id break real folks here on this week in mormons I just want to give a shout-out I promised on last week’s episode if you joined Patreon to support the show http://patreon.com/thisweek and mormons I would shout you out on the show and our first one to do it last week was Liz Bradbury Liz Bradbury thank thank you so much for your support Liz just wanted to throw that out there and thank you for being a part of the team. So any of you you can do the same thing over at http://patreon.com/thisweek in mormons Liz we can’t do the show without you. You are the reason that’s all okay, um.

44:03.62
Tiffany Hales
Yes.

44:10.31
Geoff Openshaw
You want You can just do more idaho if you want and this is your your the potato do whatever you want.

44:11.78
Tiffany Hales
Well, you know by other Idaho stuff is all Mormons behaving. Badly Do you want to finish some other news stories before we get into the Mormons behaving badly which of course is always my favorites hegbit.

44:18.88
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, okay, okay, okay, okay, all right all right right? right right all right all right right I’ll do a couple once in here but common consent ran an interesting piece called the white protestant assumptions in the word cult. I believe this was primarily written because you will sometimes hear people refer to the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints as a cult and this is really just like this is almost like a long form etymology explaining the history of the word cult and why it is used. Um, so I’ll try to give you a brief primer. But the word cult derives from the latin cultus which just means to worship. That’s all that means. But as he said in the late nineteenth century earliest scholars of religion began using it to describe places of worship from so-called primitive societies and primitive essentially meant non-protestants and especially non-white.

44:54.80
Tiffany Hales
Oh.

45:11.76
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, worshippers were started to be described as cults by the early twentieth century conservative protestant evangelicals began to use the word cults and kind of like the academics. They used it to reform to forms of christianity that were to them fake I e non-protestant so Roman Catholics and mormons were cults because they mixed real christianity. Ah, with things that conservative protestants thought weren’t really religious like a charismatic leader or ritual For example, all these sorts of things that we do and then you fast forward to the sixty s and 70 s the protestant assumptions had sung deeply enough into american culture that sociologists started using the term just to refer to religious systems that were troubling. Which is an interesting way of phrasing it. Um, they just weren’t appropriately religious because they weren’t protestant too many and they had charismatic leaders and it’s easy to call it a cult and you hear the term religious cult all the time and I think as latter-day saint when we think of a cult we don’t think of ourselves of course but we think of you know, like. Doomsdayers who are holed up in the mountains somewhere and follow a single leader or or war for most. Yeah.

46:07.65
Tiffany Hales
Or so or satanic cults that’s kind of what I think of as satanic cults I go really I go really big. You know, big and bad satanic cults. Ah.

46:18.50
Geoff Openshaw
Big and bad so basically like obviously what what people think they’re saying when they say cult is really a religious um they think they’re talking about a religious movement or some movement that’s abusive or dangerous in some kind of way so he says if that’s what you mean? simply say that actually call it an abusive or dangerous religion when you use the word cult. In a derogatory way. You are implicitly asserting that protestantism is a genuine religion and others are inferior to it. You’re also putting yourself in alliance with conservative evangelicals from the 1940 s by assuming that the viewpoints of these protestants from back when are the norm and you are also drawing on a rhetorical legacy. Deeming the religious practices of non-white people as primitive. So there’s a book here that he cited called the kingdom of cults. Interesting little bit nano doesn’t doesn’t totally call out latter-day saints in any particular way. But I dig. Yeah.

47:06.71
Tiffany Hales
But I was just so fascinated with the definition of cult being essentially if you’re not a protestant Religion. You’re a cult and I’m like Wow I had I never understood that before I read this article. Or that that is a definition One of the many definitions of a cult I’m not the Cult. You’re the cult.

47:25.48
Geoff Openshaw
You’re the cult calvinists. How could you.

47:30.65
Geoff Openshaw
I’m not the cult here the cult I’ll get into one more here before you want to do mormons behaving badly religious liberty folks we hear about it all the time. It’s a part of general conference I I joked a couple weeks ago wait I guaranteed a rasb band will speak about it in a few weeks

47:47.93
Tiffany Hales
He are We are we putting money on the table on this. Okay.

47:49.40
Geoff Openshaw
This will happen. Ah no money on the table. No no money on the table. But maybe I’ll give people the gift of like me not appearing on the show for a week or something like that. So this this game there was a religious liberty There was a symposium. At the church. It was the church history symposium which was last week Thursday and Friday sponsored by the church history department and it was in like the auditorium I believe at the church office building. The pictures are weird because it looks like sparsely attended I’m sure this was streamed but I’m kind of shocked how few people are there for this sort of thing.

48:23.34
Tiffany Hales
You know I thought the same thing there were lots of empty seats.

48:25.69
Geoff Openshaw
But it yeah like it almost looks like just the press might have been there even if that I don’t know I’m hoping it was streamed either way I’m sure it was if I click on the church history symposium. Maybe it’ll let me you know view some stuff here. Oh yeah, there we go I was at the brirham university the office building a mission is free. I don’t know if it was livestream but you can watch videos after the fact, the mission was free. Everyone was welcome. Elder gong was the keynote speaker and he spoke of course about religious liberty in latter day scripture in church history and what it means today and worldwide concerns about a global faith I’m glad he covered top. Touched on all of these I think a lot of the time we focus primarily on religious liberty and what it means in a north american context today and what and we get. You know we’re just in battles of like is that fine line between like is it religious liberty you’re fighting for or is it the ability to discriminate based on religion right? is that the same thing as religious liberty.

49:11.75
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

49:19.77
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

49:23.55
Geoff Openshaw
As a very fine line between those two I’m glad he spoke about sort of the global nature of religious freedom that a free society is founded upon tenets of religious liberty and you could go on and on because like religious liberty is not a thing everywhere else in the world like we we quibble about minutiae. Here in the United States where I live and we’re fortunate for that because there are other places where you just don’t have freedom in Russia. You don’t have freedom to worship in plenty of places where the church is active. There are restrictions upon modes of worship or if we can proselytize just just to name a few things and like. We work around it. But like yeah there are there are huge concerns for religious liberty around the world and really they believe that a a ah society that embraces true freedom of worship and of conscience is better off in general and I absolutely believe in that and I appreciate over gong telling it to us like it is.

50:14.65
Tiffany Hales
Now I I appreciated his remarks too I I thought he did a a good job and especially bringing it to a globalistic rather than because just like you said so often we get caught up in the minutiae of. Religious liberty in America while other countries are looking at us going really really.

50:37.60
Geoff Openshaw
But and especially because we are. We are officially and ostensibly a global church. So it’s like I get it. The apostles are in Utah and the states is easier to do stuff like that they can’t be everywhere at once but and every now and of course what it makes the news like when they travel internationally and get to.

50:41.52
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

50:50.37
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, yeah.

50:54.83
Geoff Openshaw
Be parts of various panels and things I you know I get it I just hope we can do more of that I ever Ruin Henry and president iron got to go meet the pope that was rad good for us. It’s good for us. Yeah yeah, you can give it to us please.

50:57.30
Tiffany Hales
Yeah. Exactly all right? should we move on to mormons behaving badly. Okay so the question is Geoff should I start with my updates first or my mormon behaving badly of the week do you have a preference.

51:16.51
Geoff Openshaw
And I want the updates because I think the one of the week is probably the most egregious one on the list and that’s a great note for us to end on. So let’s let’s do that.

51:21.38
Tiffany Hales
Exactly okay, so excuse me as you know I have given 2 awards in the category of mormons behaving badly I have a lifetime achievement award winner who is Ammon Bundy and pardon me.

51:35.33
Geoff Openshaw
I Danny a oh nothing continue.

51:39.81
Tiffany Hales
And I have a um, a hall of fame winner which is the Idaho sheriff. Ah, who assaulted the teenage girls.

51:46.59
Geoff Openshaw
Question though? What about the? ah the the day bells or whatever you’re obsessed with them.

51:52.70
Tiffany Hales
Oh I am obsessed with the day bells I have not I have not I have not given an award to the day bells just yet. Um I have I’ve not come up with the with the appropriate award for them. So let’s start with our lifetime achievement award winner Ammon Bundy

51:58.80
Geoff Openshaw
We have meant to judge them have nothing just all right.

52:09.19
Tiffany Hales
And I will explain to you why he is a lifetime achievement award winner because over the weekend he accumulated yet another arrest for trespassing in the state of Idaho this brings him up to his fifth trespassing charge in the last. Um basically the last.

52:19.80
Geoff Openshaw
The fourth minute a hero.

52:26.95
Tiffany Hales
Eighteen months approximately and um, this one he so he’s been banned from our state house. However, he’s running for governor so should he win and not that I think that he will. It will be really interesting because he couldn’t really go into his office because he’s been banned from the state house where the governor’s office is but. That’s a digression so this was an incident and I’ll just summarize it real quick I’ve been able to get some details on it. There is not a lot out there because it involves child protective services and so you really only get 1 side of the story but there was a baby that was suspected that the um. Parents were not adequately nutritionally supporting this baby and they missed so they missed a couple of appointments for this baby refused to bring this baby in so physicians declared this baby in danger got health and welfare involved and anyway they ended up stopping the parents. Ah they saw them driving down the street. They stopped them. Ah, they took the baby into protective custody. They took the baby to the hospital. Ah, the baby’s grandfather is a very ardent supporter of Ammon Bundy and so he called Ammon and Ammon rallied his troops for boots on the ground at the hospital exactly call the bundy.

53:37.73
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s out of like like call the midwife call the bunding call. The.

53:44.53
Tiffany Hales
And so tons of people arrived at this hospital at like midnight on Friday um I believe Ammon actually went into the hospital was told by the hospital to leave refused to leave saying I’m not leaving until you give the baby to its parents. So then the cops came and they arrested him for trespassing now here’s the other irony. So that happened Friday his trial started today for his trespassing charges from 2021 so he is currently in day one of a 5 day jury trial for charge number 3 and charge number 4 of trespassing at the item state house.

54:20.64
Geoff Openshaw
I’m not saying that like you know like ah I’m just curious about the church side of this like what do you do? If you’re this man’s bishop. How do you act I mean he has it he as far as Ammon money hasn’t I don’t think he’s actually wanted up being convicted of anything at this point right? He’s been charged a number of times or did he get 1

54:22.31
Tiffany Hales
He he ah seriously. Actually he’s been convicted of one of the trespassing charges from the state house in October of 2 or excuse me August of 2020 so he has been convicted. It’s a misdemeanor It’s not a felony. Um. So yeah I mean what? What do you do? If you’re his ecclesiastical leader. Yeah.

54:53.34
Geoff Openshaw
I yeah I just that’s that’s way above my pay grade I just don’t even know how you deal with that’s like ah brother Bundy we need I don’t know if we can do the temple recommend thing right now. Um because you know the stuff and the ways you’re acting and you’re kind of a.

55:06.31
Tiffany Hales
Ah.

55:12.20
Geoff Openshaw
You’re kind of like trying to violently overthrow the government at times which could be an issue so well I’m hoping he becomes your governor. It would hidden becoming your governor would be the apotheosis of everything that’s happened in Idaho in the past few years that is I mean what is going on and you’re in the 10

55:23.64
Tiffany Hales
It’s so ah.

55:29.54
Tiffany Hales
I I I can’t even you know some of my friends are just mortified and this I said this is how you have to mentally deal with all of this is you have to just look at it as entertainment and not take it too seriously.

55:30.28
Geoff Openshaw
What is happening.

55:46.27
Tiffany Hales
Because if you take it Seriously, you’ll end up in the fetal position in the corner because it’s just it’s just Mayhem is the only way to describe it. There’s a real. There’s a real battle going on right now between ah extreme conservatives that consider themselves patriots and regular conservatives who have been labeled.

55:53.20
Geoff Openshaw
That was.

56:06.42
Tiffany Hales
Rhinos or republican in name only by the extreme conservatives and then there’s a few token Democrats who kind of sit back and just watch the infighting in the republican party. So basically we have a 3 party system.

56:07.16
Geoff Openshaw
They they’re traders.

56:18.28
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, bless. Um, okay so.

56:24.17
Tiffany Hales
All right? So excuse me now for my next update which is on the idaho sheriff. You may remember sheriff Craig Rowland out of Bingham County he had his preliminary hearing and he went to hearing and it’s interesting because it appears he is going to attempt to mount a self.

56:42.55
Geoff Openshaw
Oh good.

56:43.27
Tiffany Hales
Defense ah self-defense is going to be his reasoning for behaving the way he did with the teenage girls that they came to his house under cover of darkness his light wasn’t on and everybody knows he only welcomes visitors if the porch light is on.

57:02.10
Geoff Openshaw
Oh everyone, Everyone knows that they all know that everyone’s like no, you don’t bother with anyone.

57:02.98
Tiffany Hales
And they would knock in they would knock and run away. They all know that and that the car was in was this beat up old car and he couldn’t see who was in the car until he pulled them out at gun Points. So kind of some interesting arguments at his preliminary Hearing. He of course was bound over on his felony charges I don’t believe they’ve been set for trial yet because they were still arguing about when they were he was going to get arraigned. They couldn’t find a date on his Attorney’s calendar to get him a reigned. So anyway, we’ll keep you updated on that one.

57:34.99
Geoff Openshaw
But what is happening in the gem state I don’t I don’t know why I say this I grew up in California and I’m sure half the listeners. The show could make hay out of everything that happens in my home state but but still home state that was fun and then the weirdest one of the week let’s end on a positive note in.

57:43.73
Tiffany Hales
Exactly all right? and then um oh my gosh.

57:54.45
Geoff Openshaw
A very let’s end on a firm. Real note here A non augmented note.

57:58.30
Tiffany Hales
Um I I don’t even know where to go with this this popped up on the Huffington post and this is the title of the story I’m a mom a mormon and a sex worker.

58:16.20
Geoff Openshaw
Start this just makes me think of like if it was the old I’m a mormon video was like I’m a sex worker a mom and I’m a mormon get that get that one up on the old http://mormon.org oh my gosh.

58:16.51
Tiffany Hales
My career has been secret until now it.

58:24.51
Tiffany Hales
All 3 of those things so there is this woman and there’s a picture of her and I’m I don’t think he gives us her last name she goes by Holly Jane

58:38.31
Geoff Openshaw
So it’s ah it’s.

58:42.23
Tiffany Hales
And I’m going to presume Holly Jane is not her real name and so she says that her journey began ah that that her husband when she was 31 her husband passed away and that the caring for her husband and the.

58:43.90
Geoff Openshaw
No.

59:00.73
Tiffany Hales
Anxiety and the stress was a lot she pulled herself together and now she’s a single mom and she had to make ends meet so she quit her job as a recruiter and she started nude modeling is what she says next.

59:12.48
Geoff Openshaw
I Just I mean that’s what you do? It’s like you’ve got like the mlm root or only fans that’s so.

59:16.49
Tiffany Hales
Exactly. So then she decides to expand beyond the nude modeling and she bakes a video of herself and I will just say I have not watched the video of course. Ah, according to the article she is enjoying herself in the video. Let’s let’s just leave it at that and she posts it on a popular porn site. She starts to gain a social media following and so then she gets her her own website and this is supposedly what she does for her job. And she says oh but I’m still active I go to church on Sunday you know nobody knows what I do but I guess they are they’ll know now and um, I’m just you know I’m totally fine with what I do and you know I I I you know I don’t care if people look down on me etc. So. My thought on this when I read through it is I was trying to decide is this for real or is this fake because I I just have I mean maybe she has some sort of mormon background. Maybe she goes to church once a year or watches church on zoome and considers herself to be active but I just can’t fathom that there is someone who shows up at church every week with her kids does all the typical things that you would do if you were active and. Ah, basically creates pornography for a living and is like yeah I got no problem with that I I I just there’s just a part of me that thinks I don’t I think the woman is real I mean there’s obviously I I went to her Instagram account. You know she’s she’s got a real Instagram account but I just don’t I question how mormon she is. That’s that’s that’s what I question.

01:01:10.40
Geoff Openshaw
And that’s a ah you know and it’s always a slippery slope when we’re trying to even rate how Mormon someone is right? but but ah.

01:01:20.47
Tiffany Hales
If you.

01:01:21.75
Geoff Openshaw
This one’s because the headline I mean she says she’s active in the church that could mean a lot of things active can mean she attends church and maybe she takes the sacrament I mean we don’t know if she has a temple recommend if she’s been lying and doing all that end of things I don’t that that that gets a lot more egregious now that these are not.

01:01:28.13
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

01:01:39.16
Geoff Openshaw
You know, troubling sins that merit attention and she even says she’s worried that by writing her story. She will get national attention and might you know might have her case referred to her local leadership who will get in touch with her which yes that is very likely to happen I mean she’s really banking on like no one who knows. Anything about her or anything reading Huffpost is she making on the fact that mormons are largely conservative and don’t want to read the Huffington post is that the hope here that they’re just going to gloss over it because it’s a liberal rag I don’t know I want to.

01:02:06.69
Tiffany Hales
Well here’s the other thought I had this is so awful. Ok we know that there are members of the church who view pornography. How is it that that that if she was active that maybe someone.

01:02:19.30
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, a.

01:02:26.50
Tiffany Hales
Who knows her didn’t already accidentally stumble across her I got on all.

01:02:33.40
Geoff Openshaw
That could be a thing too. It’s a I’m with you. It’s hard to know how real this isn’t if it is. It’s almost almost baffling to me because it’s like I don’t know for someone to argue and be like I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong or her exact quotes like all right I’m not the one who’s in a position to judge or discipline or anything like that.

01:02:36.94
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

01:02:43.71
Tiffany Hales
Um, yeah.

01:02:53.30
Geoff Openshaw
But I do think we have pretty clear standards about things I understand people wondering about stuff more in the weeds like did I do something wrong or not is this wrong is that wrong. You know Classic B Y you questions those kinds of things. Um you know night nights on squat peak that kind of stuff but this.

01:03:02.62
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

01:03:12.84
Geoff Openshaw
I I feel like it’s pretty clear based on you know, reading the standards of the church and and such I I don’t see a ton of gray area on this one. Um, you know I know that like the church’s going to stop her.

01:03:15.96
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

01:03:28.88
Geoff Openshaw
They can’t stop her if like or what she does if she’s like well I still want to attend church I mean they could deny her communion. Essentially they could say they could say this person likes to come. She can’t have the sacrament but she’s welcome to be here. All that are welcome. That’s that could be the level of activity. She’s referring to. Um, if this is some crazy scandal waiting to blow up and this woman is like a primary president and like totally normal like as you id say normal right? No It’s what it wasn’t normal but you know what I like you said like you just you an unassuming member of the church but then outside of it. It’s just 1 big webcam party I i.

01:03:53.68
Tiffany Hales
Yeah.

01:04:00.10
Tiffany Hales
Yeah, exactly you know and she does say I want other women and men to know It’s okay to explore their sexuality without shame I don’t disagree with that statement. But I’m not sure this is maybe the right way to do that.

01:04:03.41
Geoff Openshaw
Dont even what.

01:04:17.20
Geoff Openshaw
Oh boy I mean yeah, who where did this go wrong I blame the parents I want to.

01:04:23.46
Tiffany Hales
Anyway, So yes, that’s why we put her in the um, the Mormon behaving badly category for this evening.

01:04:30.12
Geoff Openshaw
What a strange. What a strange story and this is one we I came across like last week but I just did not want to share it on the twin feed on on Facebook and Twitter and stuff I was like no not touching it. But now it’s immortalized here on the podcast but at least just on the podcast.

01:04:41.13
Tiffany Hales
There you go? well well I came across it last week too and I tagged it because I thought okay if Geoff doesn’t talk about it when Harryianne and I podcast I’m going to I’m going to see if I if you know we’ll talk about talking about it. So.

01:04:54.14
Geoff Openshaw
I bet Arianne is going to shock you and be like there’s nothing wrong here. This is fine.

01:05:01.56
Tiffany Hales
So maybe maybe when she and I podcast I’ll have to say Aian What did you think share your feelings.

01:05:07.72
Geoff Openshaw
That’s that’s what’s gonna’s what’s gonna happen anyway, all right folks I think we can call it a show here I feel healthy about that. So thank you very much for tuning in of course subscribe to the show you haven’t done so already Apple Podcast google podcast Spotify the big hitters. But you know wherever you get your podcast. There is a subscribe button hit that button utilize that button nurture that button love that button. And if you can write a review for the show. We’d appreciate it if you would that’d be very kind of you. Tiffany. It’s a delight to have you here. Thanks for joining us this week

01:05:32.31
Tiffany Hales
This is really fun I’ve never done a 1 on one with you. We’ve done it in a group setting but never never just the 2 of us. So thank you for having me that’s right.

01:05:40.70
Geoff Openshaw
Well and thank you to Arianne for loaning you unbeknownst to me I I appreciate that it’s been a delight nice of you to join us and all of you of course. Thanks again for listening you make the show possible so please go on Patreon follow us on social media. Be part of the conversation. Keep an eye out conference is coming up which you know what that means folks temple predictions. Tie tracker all kinds of fun. Also you know the word of the restored gospel that part of it too but also tie tracker come on people get ready all right. That’s go to be it. So for Tiffany I’m Geoff this has been this week in mormons you have yourself a terrific week and we’ll talk to you again on the flipp andy flip bye.

01:06:07.50
Tiffany Hales
Best part.

 

Share this post

Share on facebook
Share on twitter
Share on linkedin
Share on pinterest
Share on email
Share on whatsapp

More Good Stuff

Stay current with all things Latter-day Saints

Give Us Your Sacred Email

We don’t spam, unless you consider emails from us recapping stuff to be spam.