EP 574 – The Last Moroni

TWiM_EP574_Last_Moroni_Temple
Is God's love "unconditional"? Counting down the remaining temples with a Moroni statue. Liahona articles need authors!

Richie Steadman of nominally decent “show” The Cultural Hall joins us to talk the news of the week. And what a week it is! You can even support Richie on Patreon, but we’re not sure why you would.

Latter-day Saint News

From Design Feature to Global Symbol: The Rise and Fall of Angel Moroni

Support the Program

We love making This Week in Mormons for you, so please show that love by donating $3 per month on Patreon. It’s easy. It’s cheap. It’s recurring. It’s barely an inconvenience!

Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hey know what’s going on friends. How y’all doing welcome to this weekend Mormons I’m Geoff Openshaw yes you are from The Cultural Hall rie t is here everybody over the cultural http://hall.com no no no no, no, no, you leave it to me you leave it to me too

00:03.36
Richie T
And I’m Ritchie t stedman oh you didn’t tell me I was supposed to say that you just said say your name in a very news authoritative way. Let me try again. Let me try again.

00:19.32
Geoff Openshaw
2 Okay, sorry hi I’m Geoff Openshaw for

00:21.78
Richie T
And I’m Ritchie Cheesesteadman from The Cultural Hall. What second? Okay well you knew that I would weasel it in eventually.

00:23.54
Geoff Openshaw
Sure That’s fine. That’s fine I was just trying to give you a plug I could have said nothing that you’re nobody. But you’re not nobody. You can Oh yeah, that’s fine. You know we do the crosspollination here. We’re just like bees just doing our thing. Yeah.

00:39.30
Richie T
Oh I don’t know that I don’t want pollen sacks are they are they are they like ah I don’t know that much about bees and you’ll have to help me is it like a little gathering you know like ah like a kangaroo has a little Joey sack. Is it.

00:39.40
Geoff Openshaw
Carrying our pollen sacks on our legs and live in the tree. Yeah originally I think we should all talk about the pollen sacks that we carry around just 2 men in our.

00:56.52
Geoff Openshaw
No, it’s they call it a sack but it’s it’s more like there’s just like clumps of pollen on their legs. Yeah, a little bit. Sorry yeah, they don’t have but they’re not marsupials but marsupial insects would be that would be something if they ever discovered them.

00:58.46
Richie T
Is that how it works for bees with on. Oh okay, disappointing.

01:08.80
Richie T
I I was sort of hoping that it was like a branded thing with the bees. They had the the honeycomb on the side and they sort of carry it around lose my bag is almost full too early for that. Okay, ah.

01:20.48
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, bees. No no, no, you’re good now I’m now I’m just thinking of Joe but I’m just thinking of job on arrested development bees. Yeah is this.

01:28.29
Richie T
Which I’m starting to watch again. This will be my third time through the arrested development series is my wife has not seen them all so we’re sitting down.

01:38.33
Geoff Openshaw
To be clear. Are you including seasons 4 and 5 or is this just a 1 through 3 joint and then you call it there you have using 4 and 5 Yeah are you going to watch now. Are you going to watch season 4

01:40.22
Richie T
Well in this in this watching of it. We will watch 4 and 5 I have seen 4 and 5 one time so we’ll be. We’ll be doing the entire 5 season.

01:56.56
Geoff Openshaw
And the remixed version that they did to make it so it made more sense chronologically because you know he read. He reedited the entire season after later on or are you going to watch it as originally intended where it focuses on like one one character per episode and like keeps telling the whole story then going back to a different episode.

02:01.58
Richie T
Sure yeah.

02:13.69
Geoff Openshaw
You can find that we have to look in like the special features on Netflix to find the original airing sequence now Netflix has made the re-edited 1 essentially the trusting Netflix is your that’s your first mistake anyway, what’s fun season 5 got very weird.

02:16.27
Richie T
I I think that I would trust Netflix to guide my viewing and I’ll do it as they indicate for me to do okay, okay.

02:32.87
Geoff Openshaw
Very very strange there by the end of that show and.

02:33.78
Richie T
Well and I’m just waiting for the reunited cast when they go back to Mayberry that was one of my favorite things that might be Andy Griffith I might be confusing shows.

02:39.75
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, ah yeah I don’t think we’ll ever get more arrested development because Geoffrey Tambbore is on the outs and and and and Jessica Walter died last year so like you can’t.

02:47.39
Richie T
Um, um, yeah I was gonna say but they’re doing amazing things with Cg so who knows ah, who knew we were going to go there.

02:58.50
Geoff Openshaw
That’s true. It’ll be like two pocket Coachella who knew I’m excited. You’re watching that I’m excited for your wife. that’s that’s true it’s a terrific chance to watch one of the funniest shows ever made at the first go around I mean that’s.

03:09.20
Richie T
Um, it my my wife had had such an interesting like ah adolescence that there are lots of things that I’ve been able to introduce her to that I would have had no idea she had never been to a theater show before we got married.

03:26.49
Geoff Openshaw
Huh is that because is that because of Utah’s lack of culture. Well it.

03:26.49
Richie T
Literally never been to a play or a musical I got to take her well she’s from Louisiana so it may be because of Louisiana’s lack of culture but she was kind of raised in the country and so all of her time was spent her mom trained ah horses. And so they every weekend or free moment would be out in the pasture with horses so she didn’t get a lot of ah play time pun intended and then.

03:51.72
Geoff Openshaw
Oh well, this is this is just bucolic then good for her now this she’s what Ah what a beautiful setting. You’ve told us the.

03:57.64
Richie T
And and it wasn’t until she was the age of 30 that we went to Disneyland so her first trip to Disneyland was as a thirty year old adult and that was a fun experience as well.

04:08.75
Geoff Openshaw
All right that that’ll be a road. We can’t go down because as one who grew up bright nearby Disneyland I’ve not been for a long time and it saddens me but I’m glad we just don’t go when I’m home I don’t know it’s it’s it’s expensive. It’s permanently crowded now there used to be an off season where you could go in the.

04:16.24
Richie T
Well why don’t you go.

04:22.43
Richie T
Sure.

04:28.30
Geoff Openshaw
Early spring or late when nobody would be. There would be awesome. You would walk on stuff all day. It was that those days are gone those days are completely gone I even caught wind yesterday that Disney has changed their policy when I was in high school I was in the I was in the band I was in the marching band in the concert band and all that yep Bando no saxophone and.

04:38.00
Richie T
Course you were Cuba. Oh of course. Yeah.

04:45.37
Geoff Openshaw
Saxophone the one instrument that can work in a marching band but does not belong in an orchestra like ever but they can’t tell the kids like well we got nothing for you. So we’re just gonna have random sax parts as part of this orchestra. So um, as a thing we would do every year though Disney for a long it don’t know the name of the program but they invite like high school marching bands and others.

04:53.91
Richie T
I felt.

05:02.66
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

05:05.13
Geoff Openshaw
Um, and perform and March down the parade route and stuff and it’s a really fun experience and that is part of doing that you get to stay at the park all day and have like a free day at Disneyland this was a normal thing for me growing up every year we’d get to go and do our Disneyland day I’d get a day out of school to do this. It was great. So just recently like I think within the past week or so.

05:12.63
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

05:24.10
Geoff Openshaw
Disney has now changed its policy policy where they still want you to come and perform but they’re offering discounted tickets for you to enter the parks afterwards. They’re making you pay and you can’t participate unless you pay to buy a ticket to enter the park at the same time. So now they’re forcing schools underfunded schools. If they want to do this and marching mans have hundreds of people to somehow get the money to cover the hundred plus dollars to let your kid go to the park for a day I think it’s a pretty messed up move I think it’s indicative of Bob Shapepeck the current Ceo just desiring to squeeze Bob wants to squeeze every last nickel out of everyone before he dies.

05:51.98
Richie T
Thanks a lot Bob Oof

05:59.47
Geoff Openshaw
And and for some reason he doesn’t get the memo because Disney’s stock price has gone down by what a third probably in since his leadership I don’t know so I know so don’t go people you know speak vote with your wallets. Do it.

06:05.66
Richie T
Well that affects the church because we own disney.

06:17.12
Richie T
You’re also at the age 2 where if you took your kids you’d be the dad in the park who’s like we’re staying here all day you be happy and you’re going to enjoy it like right? That’s the age of kids that you have.

06:27.10
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I’d fully admit.

06:29.55
Richie T
You’re sitting with the one frustrated kid. That’s all red and you know too fussy to even ever be tempered and and you or your spouse has to stay with that kid Well the other ones kind of enjoy the park and then you just all end up being mad at each other.

06:33.75
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

06:40.65
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and I fully admit, it’s like I don’t I want them to have the magic I did of being a casual visitor growing up when it’s okay to go for a couple hours on a weeknight hit some rides and have a great time and but that doesn’t exist for me now. So it’s like the pressure of having to go there and make the visit count and not get stuck in a massive crowded day. With huge lines that kids don’t want to wait like what what good is my kid going to do if he’s standing in line for an hour for some ride. They’re going to freak out. They’re not gonna they’re not gonna have a good time at all. So that’s what’s the point. Oh I would love a hot take.

07:07.60
Richie T
You would you like a hot take Disney something in Texas. Yeah yeah.

07:15.84
Geoff Openshaw
You mean like they should build a Disney park in Texas I’m pretty sure it’s been discussed at some point but I don’t think they’ll do it well the actual.

07:23.49
Richie T
Why not if they can make billions of dollars at another place and lessen the crowd on the west coast and on the East Coast why wouldn’t they do it.

07:31.71
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, you are assuming they want to lessen the crowds you see this is this is this is a supply and demand thing. This is some market economics at play. The people are still coming despite the price increases the crowd. The inconveniences all those sorts of things. The people are still coming.

07:40.45
Richie T
And oh.

07:49.16
Geoff Openshaw
Only until people stop showing up because it becomes too much to bear. Will they act in a different way but Disney seems intent on catering only to upper income crowds at this point and it’s not hurting them so far the Texas thing. Yeah I don’t think they have any incentive to like thin out the herd so to speak.

07:53.17
Richie T
M.

08:07.53
Geoff Openshaw
And when they built the parks in Florida it was deliberately to kind of capture the eastern half of the country while Disneyland captures the western half and if you put a park in Texas well, that’s like that’s the dividing line right there so then what happens I don’t I don’t think they.

08:15.18
Richie T
Yeah, well and you know it’d be bigger in Texas because Texas.

08:24.33
Geoff Openshaw
Its gonna be massive. Well this was a fun digression I enjoyed it everyone. Ah I should be ah if if any if anyone anyone all these people who host you know Disney Podcast you want me as a guest happy to happy to show up though I’m not like that hardcore of a person like I don’t own any Disney paraphernalia.

08:26.70
Richie T
Um, thanks everybody. It was great to see you again. Geoff ah.

08:41.85
Richie T
I say no antique posters in the back of your video.

08:43.84
Geoff Openshaw
Or anything I’m not sure. Now though, if you did look right behind my head I do have a book that has poster art from the Disney Parks you know how they have those post those cool lead. You can’t design posters for the rides I do have a book that celebrates the poster arts from the parks. That’s about it though. It’s all I’ve got so I’m not one of those guys I don’t go over a year. There’s people who do this, they go to Florida every single year. That’s their vacation. They take their family to Disney world.

08:53.50
Richie T
Yeah, yeah, ah ah oh okay, Okay, okay.

09:05.80
Richie T
Um, well, there’s the people that have like the pass like the pass of all passes or whatever they call it at Disney and they go enough times to justify the cost of that even though they don’t even live in the same state.

09:06.50
Geoff Openshaw
Every year

09:13.26
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, they’ve also they’ve also changed the past structure quite a bit now as well. That’s another area of anger from people but we’ll spare. We’ll spare everyone that but if any of you have magic key. Let me know. So a fun week in latter day Saint News everybody but it’s a grab bag week right? We don’t have 1 giant story jumping out across the board. Lots of fun things that we can get into and I’m just going to get into the more details about general conference because general conference is coming up here in just a couple of weeks and I’m a little bit confused. About some of these details. It doesn’t tell us much that we didn’t already suspect or know nothing confusing. Okay, it’s very It’s a very short release from the newsroom of the church so they had announced a few months ago that conference would be in person once more. Okay, um.

09:47.25
Richie T
Like what? what’s so confusing.

10:01.13
Geoff Openshaw
More people you know they had limited number of people in the conference center in October. It was the first conference back in the conference center since pre covid times and then a small group hung out there are journalists and others and stuff like that. But then they said coming up in April more people can come. They didn’t specify how many they said a limited number of tickets would be available. And in all of this as I’ve said before the curious thing is they’ve not once mentioned covid is the reason why they’re only saying because temple square is such a construction zone right now and it is. It’s a big old templates. There’s there’s not a lot of places to be you know because even between sessions the hangouts mingling around temple square that’s not as possible right now. So.

10:26.22
Richie T
It’s It’s a real mess. It’s real mess.

10:40.23
Geoff Openshaw
Understandably, they don’t want to inundate the the parcel with too many people when there’s nowhere to put them either right? I mean imagine funneling an entire conference center’s worth of people through the purchased plaza of main street because they’ve got nowhere else to go and then they just like flood into city creek or something like that cause they’ll be able to hang out. That said of course I’m sure food court owners at City Creek are all about it because you know gotta get your gotta get yours but the funny thing was they never said it. It was related to covid not like we’re easing back into this covid still a thing we’re thankful. It’s lower and we’re easing back into it so we’ll have some people but we’re still gonna be careful. So the main thing they announcedce this week is that they are.

11:03.32
Richie T
It’s the big weekend.

11:17.60
Geoff Openshaw
Limiting a general conference to 10000 people per session and they are openly encouraging those who attend to use public transit which is good because the church and the Utah Transit Authority will provide free use of public transportation for those attending conference. Ah, conference ticket will serve as a bus pass and pass for rail systems the weekend of conference I’ve never heard of them doing that before I know Utah what was in February you guys had like they ran free public transit for across the state or something like that. Yeah sure.

11:42.99
Richie T
Um, for black history month. Yeah, they’ve actually done the free. Ah the free transit to general conference for probably a decade I’ve never heard it I’ve never heard it that you have to show them your general conference ticket.

11:51.60
Geoff Openshaw
So Has that been a thing but has it only. Yeah, yeah.

11:59.75
Richie T
But I know that that on the weekends, the general conferences. It’s always been free. Free rides.

12:02.94
Geoff Openshaw
And is it all but has it only been localized I mean they’re basically saying it’s through uta and you can use free public transit I’m assuming this means that you if you’re down in down in Utah County or even up in Davis County you could ride front runnner and go and do it that whole way and that’s the whole thing’s been available huh that’s interesting.

12:14.40
Richie T
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what they’re trying to do is say hey guys remember we could actually use this transit thing Please We really guys you got out of the habit of doing it with Covid. Can you please ride our transit so that we can continue to have this system. And the church is like let’s do that.

12:33.63
Geoff Openshaw
I appreciate though that the church would get behind this and I like that Utah does did the free month idea I know there’s that bill I don’t know if it went anywhere some some someone in the assembly introduced a bill. They want to make all the public transit just like free at the point of use forever which would it would basically the point it would require.

12:45.41
Richie T
And.

12:52.00
Geoff Openshaw
Municipalities or transit agencies to make it free at for use at the time of of use and then they have to figure out how to do that I don’t know if that’ll go anywhere but it’s an interesting idea right? I mean public transit’s a good thing I think Utah is an interesting example of a state. That has done well with more investments in public transit and people didn’t think it would I mean you can really think that the 2002 olympics for that when they started building the tracks lines and it turns out people actually enjoyed it so they expanded the tracks lines and they’ve built the front runner and they’ve done stuff which is like good on them man because I think we are as a people often politically. Ah.

13:12.81
Richie T
Right.

13:28.28
Geoff Openshaw
Averse to public works because that means bore government and you know you know and it’s too tough. No.

13:29.61
Richie T
Um, yeah I’ll tell you what though about 50% of the people that I work with with the day job down at be well you they ride or or they go to the park and ride park ride the front runner and then ride the bus into work just because it’s It’s so direct to the campus. It really depends on where it is that you work and where it is that you’re going because sometimes it can be super cumbersome to get you know ten miles away it’s an hour and that just doesn’t work but you know you can get sixty miles in an hour. Sure why not? Why would you drive.

13:50.48
Geoff Openshaw
But of course.

14:04.57
Geoff Openshaw
I don’t know I don’t know I mean I’ve I’ve used public transit to go to work extensively over the years but now I don’t mind that I work at home. So anyways, this is happening general conferences in less than two weeks they are saying consistent with the best data available. They’re gonna make with the wearing a face masks optional during the conference. And then if that changes of course the policy may be modified so we’ll keep an eye on that because we know there’s the there’s the one is is the variant of Oakron. That’s the thing right now that’s the other the sub variant of oakron is potentially becoming a thing. We’ll hope it does not so ah, keep your eyes peeled for that.

14:27.86
Richie T
Yeah, it’s a sub variant.

14:34.78
Richie T
Um, ah and 10000 in the conference center means essentially every other row right? because isn’t the conference center like 19000 okay yeah so every other row.

14:41.56
Geoff Openshaw
It’s yeah, it’s like 21000 so yeah it’s how it’s about half which is fine. It’s it’s how it’ll look at when they give the opening prayer the priested session anyway, no different. It’s the most embarrassing thing folks, it’s like we have this beautiful hall and Utah is full of members of the church.

14:50.56
Richie T
Yeah, and people are still filing it guys I was.

14:59.39
Geoff Openshaw
And the and the camera pans out during the priesthood session I’m like dude there are a lot of open seats still on the sides for this thing I mean where is the demand people come on come on. There’s some Joe blue for records. So.

15:07.16
Richie T
Ah, you you you you mentioned general conference and I want to talk temples and there is an intersection of temples and general conference. So anyone who knows.

15:15.67
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, tell me more.

15:21.96
Richie T
Me knows that I like to get passionate about things that perhaps don’t really matter. Maybe they matter a whole ton or maybe it’s just a fun thing to ah to rant about ah but in the fall conference that is october conference of 2018 that is the conference where president Nelson said. No longer are we mormons that’s a win for satan let us be the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints and at that particular general conference. He announced 12 temples. It is my supposition that has not been disputed at this point that those 12 temples that were announced at that.

15:42.81
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

15:48.33
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, yes.

15:58.25
Richie T
General conference that is the fall October eighteen will be the last temples to receive a moroni. So what your question before we started recording today which temple will be the last to have a moroni to don the top of its building. Well, it’ll be 1 of these 12 how about this. It’ll be mendozs Argentina Salvador Brazil Yuba City California for non penn cambodia prior Cape Verdi and I think they released the picture of that and there is no maroni on that. Ah Yougo Guam Puebla Mexico Auckland New Zealand Leggos Lagos sorry

16:32.96
Geoff Openshaw
Nope Nope legos.

16:37.40
Richie T
And Nigeria devout Philippines ah San Juan Puerto rico or Washington County Utah and I’m pretty sure the Washington County won the feather feather. No no, no, no, that’s the red yeah yeah red cliffs red cliffs what’s the one in Washington County

16:46.50
Geoff Openshaw
The feather river is yubaity. They renamed it. Yeah and red cliffs is the Washington County one I think it’s between those two I think those are the only 2 of all that crop that still have an angel moroni on them and I think it’ll depend on which one is done last and i. I think that with the way it’s going. It looks like feather river is running ahead of red cliffs right now. So I think that.

17:06.55
Richie T
Yeah I was just down doing a wedding right by the Red Cliffs one it’s just a shell of a temple right now.

17:13.24
Geoff Openshaw
So yeah because they’ve got most of the ah clad they’re doing exterior lighting on feather river so I think that one that’ll get 1 and then yeah I think I think Redcliffe will be the last one with Marona we actually I think one of our authors ah Corey over on our website.

17:18.35
Richie T
Oh well.

17:29.19
Geoff Openshaw
A lengthy article about any and he agrees with the same argument. You made you know when things were announced’s kind of a cut off line. Um, they say Salt Snow saltta Argentina might also have a maroona unless they change the plans nice to here. No mandoza is a different city.

17:38.88
Richie T
Um, unless Mendoza is salta I’m I’m afraid you know.

17:48.63
Geoff Openshaw
Salta Salta also is going to have a marona unless they change plants. So let’s keep that one in the mix and mendozo was not announced with a moroni that doesn’t have one Salta was announced in April of 2018 so sorry it’s it’s not. It’s not.

17:53.53
Richie T
Um, when was Salta all and.

18:03.72
Richie T
Okay, well then of course it’s fine. It’s fine.

18:07.54
Geoff Openshaw
Not from that crowdp. But if you look at a cut offline when a lot of the ones even from October or 2018 did not include a moroni because like pin onm pen never had 1 ackland never had 1 ah day but he said Puebla Mexico though was announced in October Twenty Eighteen does have maroni.

18:13.72
Richie T
You know.

18:20.95
Richie T
Um, so so you know I I just wish and I hope and if I have those ah those prayers that I throw up as we go towards a general conference like I hope it it.

18:24.54
Geoff Openshaw
Allegedly that one’s coming along too. Okay.

18:37.61
Richie T
We can talk about it. Can it be a thing that we can finally say hey we’ve been sneaky. We just want you to know that we noticed we’re not putting mar own eyes on all the temples I actually read and maybe it was in Corey’s article but I don’t think so ah that the the church was quoted as saying they want to have more general and broad appeal. Especially in poorer nations and to have a gold statue on the top of our elegant building made it feel unattainable to to a certain members of the church.

18:57.77
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

19:06.69
Geoff Openshaw
And in some ways that can completely make sense I don’t know that I I didn’t heard that about Moroni himself. But I get it. They had well no, it’s the it’s the actual moroni he moves around temple to temple. Um.

19:14.80
Richie T
Well, it’s a statue. It’s not Moroni actually. Ah, and he’s a shapeshifter because on some temples he’s flying and other times he’s standing up in different positions.

19:24.81
Geoff Openshaw
Different. So did you know there are temples. There are some we’ve standardized the moron eyes that have been used in recent years but some temples have slightly different statues of moroni upon them, not just not just the flying thing but like I believe the I believe the one in Los Angeles he’s actually holding the plates which he’s not always doing in every single thing.

19:33.10
Richie T
Um, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, no, um, we’ve standardized it and then we got rid of it.

19:44.80
Geoff Openshaw
There’s there’s some ways to to mix it up. Yeah, pretty much. So ah, we’ll see I get that. But the thing I’ve heard is of course that you know they’ve wanted to make temples more architecturally representative of the area they’re in not just the style which I appreciate that when they’ve made some like Tijuana and the one in Pueblo like they actually have spanish baroque elements but also not to be in a. Um, going to say ostentatious but far too elegant of a building and I think this is really well exemplified if you look at the temples in like Haiti and the one and the one in Kinshasa and the drc beautiful but very very very simple buildings like it reminds you of when they built the temple in Freiburg Germany which was then communist east germany ah very simple straightforward building to get the work done not to be anything anything bigger than that and I could also see that so you know you know imagine if you’re building something that looks like the san diego temple in a developing country. It’s like hello here we are prosperity is prosperity doctrine anybody yeah so ah.

20:23.20
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

20:32.94
Richie T
Yeah, yeah, insensitive at the very least.

20:40.10
Geoff Openshaw
But I don’t know about the argument about not doing moroni in certain areas because it’s like there’s all these newer temples going up with no marona I like they’re building a temple in my mostly native yobalinda California yobalinda has 1 of the highest income levels in the country and they’re and they’re not suffering for money there but it’s not going to off.

20:54.10
Richie T
That’s because it’s not. It’s it’s the argument that I’ve maintained that I just wish we would talk about at general conference. It’s not Maron ice church. That’s why we’re not doing it anymore.

21:01.78
Geoff Openshaw
So it does it. It is weird to me. They’re Cagey about this because I know journalists have asked here and they’re in the temple department. Everyone just kind of just just kind of lets a glance off their shoulder and doesn’t engage and that makes it so weird to me like why can’t you just talk about this openly. What is.

21:09.57
Richie T
Um, we’re now ready to talk about here and.

21:18.70
Geoff Openshaw
Is there some weird big secret about it I don’t think there is I don’t understand just from the simple point of curiosity as a member of the church. Um, they have said a few things they have said that we’ve gotten in the habit of expecting Moroni when it wasn’t always the case to have the Angel Moroni on a temple and then it kind of became more of a pm more normalized like in the 80 s and 90 s and we started building a lot more temples.

21:23.96
Richie T
Well I’m going.

21:37.93
Geoff Openshaw
And then we even added it to pre-existing temples like Probo. Um, so maybe we just got used to it. The church is trying to say this wasn’t always the thing so it doesn’t need to keep being the thing.

21:38.83
Richie T
Ah.

21:44.81
Richie T
Um, well it got to be it got to be the big ceremony right? It’s like you know that was the big there was the groundbreaking that was huge and then the you know hundreds of people, especially the temples here in Utah when they would put the moroni on the temple hundreds of people would gather to watch. The Angel Moroni hoisted to the top of the temple wait and.

22:03.34
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, yeah, and then they just did it this past week in in in late Layton Layton and late and that’s that was kind of what stimulated this entire discussion. Yeah they they gathered in late and they of crane everyone stood out there and clapped and yeah, got so happy. But.

22:16.42
Richie T
Um, I wonder if and wander down this road with me for 2 seconds isn’t it isn’t a part of and where were you taught this growing up. Ah you know out in the mission field. Ah ah about how Moroni would ah beckon.

22:19.92
Geoff Openshaw
That all right.

22:34.10
Richie T
You know with his the call of the trumpet the second coming of the savior and and and so that that you know on his buildings. It would obviously be kind of the the physical moniker and and welcoming of of the savior to the temple and and maybe people aren’t ready to.

22:35.50
Geoff Openshaw
So well I think that’s that yeah like that’s the whole point. Yeah wow.

22:47.88
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, maybe we’re not I Also think part of it is not just the not being too said to to pico as we said in Spanish like you know, not not putting off an impression of wealth or niceness with a gold leaveaf statue. But.

22:51.76
Richie T
To let go of that.

23:07.60
Geoff Openshaw
Also it’s just our move to move away from anything that is not christ- centerered period I think which it it is it doesn’trigue me that we haven’t gone to the length to like Axe the moroni on some other existing temples they did in some I think the temple in Thailand was gonna have a moroni and then they took it out of the plants. That’s the only one I can think of where that was the case. But.

23:09.43
Richie T
My.

23:21.18
Richie T
And.

23:26.80
Geoff Openshaw
Elsewhere. They’ve just kept it for some reason and president Nelson’s kind of let it slide. You know who knows why the the couple of them have slipped through to do it? Yeah but and it’s funny though if you’ve got I mean if we’re talking very clearly from October if you’re talking October when its october is when they said you know the name of the church. All that stuff that still gives you puebla Mexico feather river.

23:30.77
Richie T
As it was before he said no more.

23:39.75
Richie T
Ah.

23:46.79
Geoff Openshaw
Um California as ones that will have Moroni and red cliffs ones that will have moroni they were announced after that line in the sand but they will keep Moroni for some reason but I have to imagine it’s that I mean think about it like we changed know that even we even got rid of the famous you know Moroni Statue in our.

24:05.66
Richie T
So.

24:05.77
Geoff Openshaw
Gospel library app you know is the the same the silhouette like obviously we’re just moving away from the imagery in general and that’s probably just probably just part of it. Yeah sorry Marona so that’s fun. Another ah other temple news by the way, the church presidency has announced that.

24:12.14
Richie T
Sorryri maroni.

24:23.30
Geoff Openshaw
Temples are going to gradually return to normal operations Gradually so that you might remember as I’m sure you’ve seen in most of your congregations. Covid is effectively over apparently and I I think this has become a funny whirlwind for a lot of people. It’s like.

24:28.51
Richie T
We’re back to it.

24:36.29
Richie T
It’s been over here for a long time. Geoff.

24:42.81
Geoff Openshaw
You That’s we’ve talked about it before it just kind of cracks me up like in a matter of a week. The whole church was like all right. It’s done and and even though even though the um, the immunocompromised and others are like guys still a problem so but he says net but they said you know at the time that temples.

24:46.46
Richie T
Yeah I’m tired of that take this off.

25:00.42
Geoff Openshaw
Still had to maintain some of the criteria for covid because it’s a largely elderly population helping staff the temple closer confines all that so they were still limiting the number of people sessions have been some temples of limited session capacity like 30% of room capacity masks required all that kind of stuff.

25:06.65
Richie T
Sure sure.

25:19.31
Geoff Openshaw
And they said it a later date. We’ll revisit that we might be approaching that later date in the letter dated March fifteenth from the first presidency they said now that more people are immunized. We are pleased to announce the temples throughout the world will gradually return to more normal operations including the elimination of face masks and capacity restrictions. Obviously this will be done I think in a region by region case by case basis in concert with the temple department but it’s happening people. They’re going to move to phase 5 which doesn’t officially exist but that’s what I’m sticking with phase 5 and that really just means that means things will just be you know back to normal.

25:51.79
Richie T
Move forward. Well and and with it you get your temple back when does that open house start in DC pretty quick here right.

25:57.55
Geoff Openshaw
And.

26:01.47
Geoff Openshaw
But next end of next month we finally do the dc open house without bloody time man. It’s.

26:06.34
Richie T
How many sessions do you have to be a part of because I imagine that that you the members of the church out. There are like listen it’s all hands on deck we’re doing a four month open house.

26:16.34
Geoff Openshaw
So they have not actually reached out to us specifically for much staffing they had volunteer lists but it is interesting the difference because like when they did the Newport Beach Temple in Orange County we were our stake was clearly tasked with certain things I mean there were there was a lot of organized outreach to ask us to help out and do certain things to help out with the open house. Haven’t really felt that this time around they’ve said ah they’ve had some online links where you can just like put your name in to help out but mind I think the demand has been so robust to be a part of it that there wasn’t really an opportunity to do much else like the only thing left was like handling parking just like waving a baton to wave people in they need somebody to do that I’m like I’m not doing that people in a way.

26:53.85
Richie T
Um, yeah, don’t limit me don’t limit my potential. No no.

26:54.90
Geoff Openshaw
Want me to give a guided tour. That’s who I am come on what they probably wouldn’t they’d probably limit me because of the beard though and just say yeah I don’t know if you’re on board. So we’re excited for that. Um I will It’s really funny to me the more people I talk to in my ward stake leaders and others. How like everyone will say like well you know of course we’re we’re rededicating the the temple you know late this summer and then almost immediately when anyone says that they’ll go like haha like okay we we hope an eye rollll and basically an expectation that Salt Lake is going to tell us. Actually we’re pushing this back into November now because they’ve done it so many times.

27:23.47
Richie T
Um, yeah.

27:31.77
Richie T
Well will it be the first time for you and your kids to go to a temple or if had they have they been to a temple before.

27:32.70
Geoff Openshaw
Um, exciting stuff. Very very excited to have the temple back. I took my youngest to the Philadelphia open house when when my oldest thank you for that.

27:41.79
Richie T
Cool your youngest or your oldest. Yeah I was going to say all right older kids I’m I’m going to task myself with taking the youngest of you to the temple.

27:50.98
Geoff Openshaw
he was he yeah he was a year and a half old or something like that and so we didn’t have any others at the point at that point and he was a cute little dude going to front. He didn’t remember it at all of course I was actually showing him pictures of that experience and of course he tells me he’s like I think I remember some stuff I’m like sure you do, but.

28:07.74
Richie T
Um, you know that’s a gorgeous temple for anyone who hasn’t ever been to the Philadelphia temple because you have I I don’t remember the name of I think it’s a catholic church that’s just on the other side of the freeway there. And yeah, yeah, yes, oh my gosh. It’s it’s fun.

28:09.50
Geoff Openshaw
I’m sure you remember when you were a year and a half old ah

28:21.37
Geoff Openshaw
There’s ah but there’s a basilica right? nearby. Yeah.

28:27.34
Richie T
It’s fun. It’s also a ah ah quick note no security at the Ah Philadelphia Temple grounds I went there in the visitor center. It was open but nobody was there I had to use the bathroom I was out wandering the town and I was like oh cool the temples right here.

28:27.43
Geoff Openshaw
It. It’s on low and that as.

28:45.80
Richie T
And went into the visitor center and wanted to chat with people and ask them questions and went use the restroom and then wandered the entire building and found no one for almost a half an hour and I never did find anybody. But then I just left.

28:54.62
Geoff Openshaw
That that’s weird and it’s an interesting visitor center because they kind of just wedgeed this little two-st story building like just kind of up against the wall like next to the temple It’s great though. I think the church had such a coup in terms of getting the. Site that they did for the temple right? there off Logan Square in downtown you know in city center Philadelphia like you said it’s right by the cathedral of st peter’s and St Paul this beautiful catholic structure Logan Logan squares this iconic center of the city and just right there kitty corner from it. Boom there’s the temple just hanging out.

29:26.88
Richie T
Well well and don’t forget the thing that probably most people would go to do there The steps that you can run so you can be like rocky you run up.

29:29.22
Geoff Openshaw
Pretty cool. Yeah.

29:34.14
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, reading market. Oh you can keep going up the Benjamin Frank the Benjamin Franklin Parkway and get up to the museum. Yeah, which is a great museum if you haven’t been fantastic museum the philadelphia museum of art. It’s incredible. They’ve they’ve spared no expense’s.

29:49.47
Richie T
The ability to get you to digress is something I take great pride in.

29:54.29
Geoff Openshaw
But what? well I could do this like articles of news where you blast through like 40 news stories and give each one a minute and a half this happened this happened this happened this happened this happened this happened.

30:01.18
Richie T
But listen listen it’s you you know it’s just a. It’s just a different take on it. A lot of times when we do the articles of news. We just want people to know hey you know what this happened let’s move along is that happening.

30:11.80
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, I’m all fine. We can move along the point is your temple might return to normal operations people that might happen. Maybe who knows someday.

30:19.91
Richie T
In the last bit of temple news. Let’s go hear the turn of several dozen shovelfuls of dirt I loved how this story started on Saturday March Nineteenth signaled the beginning of construction of the freetown sierra Leone Temple the country’s first temple.

30:33.60
Geoff Openshaw
Yep.

30:38.25
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, and so and so and and if we’re following your style. That’s all we say about it right? That’s it good that.

30:38.63
Richie T
Pretty cool when you.

30:44.55
Richie T
Yeah, we say yeah lots of members of the church then we sort of flash forward down to the end of it where we say oh there are 22000 members of the church in Sierra Leone and 79 congregations

30:54.97
Geoff Openshaw
Which is pretty impressive honestly for the church’s young history there. It’s huge. My bishop is from Sierra Leone so it’s kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, so it’s a convert from the church in his late youth you know, kind of early.

31:00.19
Richie T
I so get out that is cool a lifetime member of the church from Sierra Leone

31:14.46
Geoff Openshaw
Maybe early 20 s so he was a convert he went on a mission though to Kenya at the time he was one of the first outsiders like to serve in Kenya wasn’t from the country. Very cool guy and this has been a lot of fun for him ever since they announced the temple there and watching him track x obviously he still has plenty of family there and so very dear, not that I’ve been to sier early on. But since I have that one that.

31:20.80
Richie T
Wow.

31:33.40
Geoff Openshaw
1 little relationship to the country. It’s been fun seeing them get this little blessing. He’s no like he’s known where the temple’s gonna be for a long time. For example, you know he’s an insider. It’s like it’s gonna be right by the embassy I us embassy I promise I’m like all right you you do you for.

31:38.79
Richie T
Sure.

31:45.34
Richie T
Um, would you ever travel ah like to a Sierra Leone or like to a place that you have maybe never been before or have only been a time to go to a temple dedication are you is isn’t that your tam.

31:56.70
Geoff Openshaw
I was about to save if if you didn’t have the qualifier of temple I was going to say yes Richie that’s the point of travel to go to a place I’ve never been and experienced it. Yeah I think more it’s like if the place has a temple I will I would want to try to check it out and do work there.

32:02.55
Richie T
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but the temple part like would you travel for a temple is my question.

32:11.75
Richie T
Sure.

32:14.32
Geoff Openshaw
But I think it’s I’ve trying to think if there are any temples that would be so important I would like make that the trip I don’t know if I’d be that that guy no included if it’s around yes, but I’m not gonna get on a plane and be like guys guys guys guys guys I really need to go to the stockholm swedden temple. I don’t even care about Stockholm I just want to go to the temple there. What about you is that your jam you want to.

32:35.47
Richie T
Well, ah I mean I ah I’m thinking ah like this summer when the Helena Temple gets dedicated like we’re doing that because I got some family up there but we’re going to go strictly when we’re going so that we can be there for the dedication right? right? right.

32:48.32
Geoff Openshaw
And that’s cool and that works so we got family there. It makes it makes sense and when you’re in somewhere like the intermountain west I mean I think that’s a little bit more of I’d be more inclined if I were somewhere like you I be like oh yeah man, we’re getting a new temple down there in ephraim. Let’s go. Let’s go down there to snow college folks. They got a Mcdonald’s it’s gonna be hot. Let’s do this? okay.

32:59.58
Richie T
Um, yeah, but I but I am the guy I am the guy that if I’m in like Chicago and I don’t have a car that I get a lift and go all the way out to the Chicago temple because I want to see it because I’m in Chicago.

33:14.46
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, and I’m I’m in the same boat like if there’s a temple around I want to check it out. We were in st louis a couple years ago no time to do a session or anything. But yeah, we drove out and checked out the temple site in St Louis Poor flying out because I just wanted to see it and enjoy it. You know, nothing wrong with that.

33:17.44
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

33:27.17
Richie T
Yeah Kona Hawaii we did that too that was kind of fun. We’re driving down the main Dragon Hawaii and you’re like what the that’s a that’s a little temple there on the side of the road.

33:33.55
Geoff Openshaw
Mahanro.

33:37.15
Geoff Openshaw
It is. It’s a little mini one I’m surprised we predicted a temple in Maui I think our last time around did not transpire of course. But I wonder if Hawaii is due for another temple. At this point they just have Laye and then the one down in cona got have more faith people come on.

33:45.63
Richie T
It’s coming. It is. Well and now you get the since ah the Hawaii mission was divided into two missions. Now you can do it.

33:56.89
Geoff Openshaw
So yeah, more more 1 thing I love about missions let’s talk digressions you love digressions real quick missions are interesting to me only in that mission boundaries do not always correspond with stake boundaries especially in places where it’s less important somewhere where stakes are maybe denser like in the western United States

34:02.14
Richie T
Yeah, bring it.

34:16.71
Geoff Openshaw
But you can go to a lot like foreign countries I know that my my nephew was just called Portugal on his mission for example and if you look at the boundaries of the stakes around the lisbon area and then the boundaries of the lisbon mission. They do not cleanly overlap and it’s always been curious to me if. Church has organized its stakes. Its members in a certain way geographically that makes sense. It’s interesting to me that the missionary work would not follow those that same logic. You know, um, it just it just intrigues me if you’re in that kind of sense to not. Ah.

34:34.75
Richie T
E.

34:46.59
Geoff Openshaw
It doesn’t always affect him like in my mission we had a number of stakes but it wasn’t like any of them more in the risk of like rubbing over over mission lines or anything like that. But that’s all strange practice. Yeah yeah, yeah.

34:53.23
Richie T
Well I mean stakes are organized in the way that there’s leadership right? So you have to have a certain amount of different leadership and then that’s how stake lines can be drawn so that would make sense that a mission would be different because.

35:05.63
Geoff Openshaw
So I mean a mission can follow whatever the mission president wants in the church want to do but it is kind of interesting to me only in that like if you’re a missionary serving in an area you could be in this other mission entirely. That’s like a couple of wards that are from like a different stake. So if there’s like state conference. You can’t go because it’s because it’s.

35:21.60
Richie T
Yeah, you.

35:24.22
Geoff Openshaw
And a different mission entirely or something like that I Just think it’s interesting I don’t I don’t necessarily debate the logic behind it I Just I think it’s curious. They don’t just make it lined up cleanly all the time just for the sake of the Missionaries serving in like the same mission the same stake being with those members knowing those members not being kind of picked apart and balkanized sort of speak. So.

35:42.61
Richie T
You know you know you you talk about the the stake lines and I appreciate it that you included this article talking about the all church basketball competition for the love of the game is what it’s called. That’s the article from Iser and news.

35:44.17
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, ah.

35:56.74
Geoff Openshaw
Which is a very bad Kevin Costner movie which is a very bad Kevin Costner movie the baseball one for the love of the game come on. Oh it’s a very law and anyway okay, okay, you should watch it.

36:01.90
Richie T
What’s that. Cool now I’ve never seen it is that the one it’s baseball I thought he was in a field of dream field of dreams but is that Kevin Costner too

36:14.85
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, also a baseball film Richie yeah Kevin Coster who was also in bull duham Kevin Costor loves baseball. He played baseball at cal state fullerton he’s a he’s loves the baseball. He was also in the ten cup.

36:23.69
Richie T
But he he was in the golf one too. The the tin cup wasn’t like Devin cost.

36:31.17
Geoff Openshaw
Well that that one came out after he was a famous celebrity and then golfing became a normal part of their life. That’s what you do once? you’re rich and have time to burn right? You play golf Also ah also the stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Yes, also becoming a member of the sioux. Also the tribe. Yeah.

36:36.20
Richie T
Well and he was Robin hood too. There’s there’s a connection with all these things. Ah, but.

36:50.21
Geoff Openshaw
Also also some kind of water pirate. Um, when there’s no land anywhere. Yes, that’s.

36:50.39
Richie T
Ah, what in waterworld. Yeah, of course of course and ah 1 of the baddest men in Yellowstone in the Tv series yellowstone.

37:03.52
Geoff Openshaw
I can’t do the yellow. Everyone talks about the yellowstone thing it seems like the kind of show that like parents would love like it. It caters. No I have not watched it. My understanding is it’s full of violence and language and I’m supposed to seek after good things Richie. So.

37:08.77
Richie T
Have you not watched it. Oh no, you yeah you got 2 little kids you get? yeah yeah yeah I sought after good things I just happened upon those things as I was seeking the I could I couldn’t look away.

37:21.52
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and.

37:26.27
Geoff Openshaw
I got detoured on my way to the good things and that’s okay, okay.

37:28.65
Richie T
I wish that they would bring back and of course this is a story in the news this past week because March madness is going on right now. The enign nila basketballba tournament and they think how can we apply this to the church at the desert news and so they decided to to write about.

37:38.44
Geoff Openshaw
Yep now. I It’s good. Synergy.

37:47.50
Richie T
Ah, back in the day when and and this was a huge deal and I’ve talked to people of this era where it would be a traveling basketball tournament meaning in Salt Lake and I don’t I can’t remember if they played at desret gym. Ah long since abandoned building I think that’s where the conference center is now. Yeah I’m pretty sure. Ah.

38:01.11
Geoff Openshaw
So was that the gym that was destroyed to make the conference center. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:07.42
Richie T
But but people would travel you you would have I think ward competitions and then compete at a stake level and then stake basketball would compete at a region level and then region level would compete and anyway so it did all drill down to where it would come like a March madness.

38:18.91
Geoff Openshaw
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:23.39
Richie T
Competition in Salt Lake year after year after year.

38:26.28
Geoff Openshaw
but but but regional not just in Utah like you had people traveling around the country to compete in this? Yeah yeah.

38:31.30
Richie T
Oh yeah, yeah, no, that’s what I mean like you would like you had the representatives from the Dc area that they would come out and they would play against. You know the Washington State players but they would all come and it was a huge thing for commerce in Salt Lake because of all these people coming in. And a huge thing for the church because it was ah a rallying time for thousands of members of the church to convene in Salt Lake and then we got rid of it.

38:54.79
Geoff Openshaw
And yeah I didn’t know they did this and they even the the article even kind of proudly touts that basically nearly twice as many players participated than those that participate in the actual March madness in the and ncwa tournament which is roughly five thousand and that’s this involved up to 10000 church members and the church was all about it at the time you had elder benson later president Benson speaking about how you know it helped it helped foster good growth and teamwork and all the all the good young things for young men to go fight against communism it helped them develop themselves. Ah I think it’s quiet.

39:27.48
Richie T
Was the.

39:33.23
Geoff Openshaw
I Don’t know I get I’ve that’s sad to me. We don’t do stuff like this anymore I don’t know like this you know Roadshow Stake plays all these like things we used to do as part of our community that we just stopped and we don’t go anymore.

39:41.84
Richie T
Well and it’s so fascinating because like back in the 50 s there were the the missionaries that were called to Australia to play basketball and to no basketball.

39:49.24
Geoff Openshaw
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, was it basketball or baseball for that one. It was basketball right? Yeah yeah, you’re right? That’s what yep thank you.

39:56.51
Richie T
Ah, yeah, but they were called the mormon yankees that’s why you get kind of confused because you’re like Yankees is a baseball team. But in this case, it was a basketball team but like ah former ah presiding bishop of the church David H Burton he was a basketball player that got called on a mission to Australia to play basketball.

40:08.53
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

40:13.13
Richie T
So there were these players at Byu Utah State University of Utah other places that if they were really good at basketball. That’s what they were pursuing in college. The church would call them on missions to go serve in Australia to teach the people of Australia how to play basketball. And and there’s an interesting I think it’s in the 52 or 56 olympics where there’s this interesting like intersection crosssection of members of the church and the Australia Olympic Basketball team coached by a member of the church and lots of people found. Their way to the gospel because of these missionaries coming to play basketball and we just don’t do that kind of stuff anymore. Ah, we should.

40:51.83
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I don’t know makes me sad makes me long I long for a simpler time when we could do fun things like that Yankee Yankee makes me think of my mission are why not they would yell at us in Spanish Yankee Yankee go home. They’d say to us.

41:06.19
Richie T
Um I I don’t understand why we couldn’t do it 1 time right? like hey guys we used to do this fifty years ago we’d like to do it one time. 2025 get your teams ready. We’re going to be competing you know in these different age brackets and we’re gonna go towards this and and then we’ll be done I don’t know the individual members paid for it. You just put together did fundraising every year every year

41:24.75
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, well who paid for it I mean did did the church foot the bill for all of the travel and everything like who did it huh how often did how often were these annual tournaments. It was annual and that’s the crazy thing I could understand treating at least like a world cup situation every 4 years something like that we do this thing be awesome.

41:39.86
Richie T
Prison.

41:43.86
Geoff Openshaw
And imagine that saints from all over the world now fighting each other and we know that church ball is like to call it. You know the only fight that begins with the prayer right? That’s the little aphorism. This could be a great chance globally to engender hatred amongst our membership. So I don’t.

41:51.95
Richie T
Right.

42:01.14
Richie T
Well and you got to fire up the music but turn turn into favorite scripts are our first nephi three seven weighing on at £145 hasn’t played a professional lick of sports give it up for Geoff.

42:02.67
Geoff Openshaw
I would walk away from that.

42:09.29
Geoff Openshaw
So they’re just going to play.

42:20.31
Richie T
Open? Yeah, but okay, okay I don’t I I see you from bust up so I have no idea how much you mean? are you really.

42:20.41
Geoff Openshaw
If I would one hundred forty five pounds that would be very scary very scary I’m not a short person so that would be scary.

42:33.99
Geoff Openshaw
I’m about 6 I’m about six two Richie so one forty five would be yeah yes I really am okay, fair. That’s fine.

42:37.74
Richie T
You really are I have a hard time believing in that I don’t know why I didn’t I mean I didn’t think you’d to be a short individual but six two oh okay so like are we like 115 and a little shy of 6 2 or you’re like 6 Okay.

42:45.83
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, a little bit shy I mean we round up a a smidge. but yeah but I’m I’m rounding up from five nine what can I say you know sticking with basketball since we’re on it. good good little ah

42:57.33
Richie T
Ah, so.

43:04.25
Geoff Openshaw
Coverage from lds living which I think is actually covering a story at http://ksl.com. So maybe we should just link to the ksl 1 but you know Sean Bradley the famous former and Nba player was in a biking accident earlier this year or I guess ah last year that left him paralyzed from his rib cage down that’s like. Crazy accident famous basketball player and Sean Bradley is famously a huge person seven foot 6 um, yes, precisely. But and now he’s paralyzed from the ro cage down which says I can’t imagine enduring that and so it’s just kind of a nice rundown of his experiences sort of positivity humility.

43:23.85
Richie T
And he’s not rounding up. He’s actually seven food sick. Yeah.

43:39.12
Geoff Openshaw
Humility angle was interesting. It makes he said that like the doctors. The caregivers had to kind of rewrite the book to take care of him because of his size like they couldn’t just treat him. Normally they had to make a lot of extra considerations. His wife kept sort of a happy Journal of Positivity thing and he mentions like you know I can mope all day but there’s nothing to do. We’re human like I’m not you know.

43:44.48
Richie T
And his.

43:58.62
Geoff Openshaw
He could say he never tried not to get Angry. You know why? me’s like I haven’t been angry with God about this. It’s not my relationship with him. It’s more like okay if you ask me to do this then just help me through it which I think is an excellent way to look at things bad things happen and do we spend our time saying why? me? why me and being mad about it or do we say Great. This is happening help me then help Me. And God will help us get through things I can’t imagine the trial this is for his family and for the rest of his life. It’s just crazy but I appreciate his positivity in the in the face of extreme adversity I would not I would have a hard time not being pretty mad if I lost my mobility like that. So good for him.

44:31.87
Richie T
As we talk about sports the the article about be why you we are not being investigated for our relationship with bill bar. Ah Tom built Tom Bilt Bar Homemo ah they sponsored his middle name.

44:38.28
Geoff Openshaw
I know.

44:44.37
Geoff Openshaw
It’s such a weird headline.

44:50.70
Richie T
And kalai built bar sataki the football coach for Brigham Young University They are not being investigated for their I just ok I love that this is not a story. We just want to let everyone know this is not happening.

45:05.14
Geoff Openshaw
They literally they literally wrote an entire story based off of the head of Bu Athletics quickly like saying in a quick aside yeah, they’re not looking into this and now it’s an entire story I guess the issue here of course is since they ruled the the courts changed the rules around and ncw um sorry around. Um.

45:06.98
Richie T
It makes me think there’s something happening.

45:14.84
Richie T
This is.

45:24.79
Geoff Openshaw
Compensation of sorts or sponsorships for and nc a players. They famously have been banned from it for a very very long time and you still cannot pay collegiate athletes and but Bill Barr which is an energy bar company. That’s up an american fork or pleasant grove or protein board bar I’m sorry anyway they have like sponsored some of the.

45:35.79
Richie T
Protein bar come on.

45:44.33
Geoff Openshaw
Players but there is a very fine line because I guess the actual the coaches, the beu itself can’t be a go-between it has to be a direct relationship between player and sponsor and this is kind of what they were getting at that you know has be why you violated any rules I Want to think I mean out’ know where they did this but I think it didn’t they.

45:49.50
Richie T
Oh.

46:03.10
Geoff Openshaw
Like meat and BY use locker room to do this isn’t that like the rule violation. They’re not saying it is for.

46:05.15
Richie T
Ah, well, it’s ah it’s a fascinating thing because it it really is like coming from the built bar studios in Built Bar Utah County you know it they have and and props to built bar because I think as. As ah, the ncw a and as byu is trying to figure it out. They’ve just said listen, we’re all on board. Whatever we can get away with let’s do it and so yeah I mean they they are getting so much love and attention from the all of the athletics department at.

46:27.78
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it’s pretty much all it is whatever we can get away with.

46:37.26
Richie T
Be way you write and not not just the the popular ones the baseball the football the basketball it is the you know the women’s gymnastics. It is the women’s softball. It is a women’s basketball. It is the track and field as much as bill bar can be a part of it. They have said here. Whatever we can do let us be a part of it and so you see it.

46:53.30
Geoff Openshaw
So the bar is the bar is built. Yeah, by the way if you want an interesting podcast few months ago. Ah Kurt frankum over leading saints interviewed the founder of bill bar because he’s also a bit. He’s also a bishop right now. It’s kind of interesting learning by his experiences I actually enjoyed that one so check that out. Yes.

46:56.31
Richie T
Everywhere. Yeah.

47:01.65
Richie T
Um, that’s that’s Kurt built bar frankum. That’s how he got that interview.

47:12.60
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, Kurt Kurt is bought sold pretty much by most of Utah culture and finance I mean let’s be honest people that man cannot stand. He cannot stand alone as an independent journalist anymore. Ah, but we can folks because if you go to http://patreon.com/thisweek at mormons you can fund this show directly. That’s right, we are beholden to no one.

47:19.36
Richie T
That’s right, That’s right.

47:31.57
Geoff Openshaw
No one and you and you can support richie The Cultural Hall is the same way. Did you know that go to go to http://patreon.com/theculturalhall Ritchie’s doing good things. It takes his time and resources. It takes him away from the work. He’s supposed to be doing in order to provide you this content. so so ah here’s a random.

47:34.20
Richie T
Well I knew that.

47:48.90
Geoff Openshaw
Public Square Magazine in general perplexes me all right? If you haven’t heard of public square magazine you’re not a Facebook friend with enough mormon apologists. Um, because they will share things. It’s a little bizarre because I feel like they started as a little bit more not a progmo blog necessarily but some of their content just and thank you.

47:54.99
Richie T
And.

48:02.53
Richie T
Which means progressive Mormon for those who don’t know.

48:07.52
Geoff Openshaw
I’m trying to you know let people feel like they’re insider. So um, some of their content’s very fascinating to me. There was a really bad one the other the other day actually I should have brought it up about the church’s finance situation and you know basically taking everyone to task for.

48:17.90
Richie T
But.

48:23.47
Geoff Openshaw
Having issue and saying the church should pay more and give more because we have so much money for.

48:25.28
Richie T
Um, yeah someone someone sent me a direct message and was like listen you posted about how the church gave 4000000 to the folks in Ukraine and that’s great. Four million I mean that’s a lot of dollars four million dollars. But it’s point zero zero

48:34.15
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

48:42.99
Richie T
Like two five percent of one hundred billion so maybe they could do more. Maybe we could do a 0 they were just like when you know when are we going to stand up ah against these guys when are we going to tell people they should do more and I’m like I don’t know how much is is enough. What is enough is 50000000000 too much.

49:00.70
Geoff Openshaw
I know well on the Russia side too like the church is never gonna say much more than they have because they don’t want to imperil the situation of the saints in Russia and are already tenuous relationship with the government there that anyway that article was funny because basically the argument came down to the church’s money money is well managed erego this is good.

49:09.57
Richie T
Right.

49:17.92
Richie T
Yeah, this move.

49:19.66
Geoff Openshaw
And that’s like that’s not exactly like the point but okay, but here’s a different article from public square magazine by Geoff Bitolf Geoff who does spell his name correctly by the way geo f and this article is called the church still loves you Richard Dutcher it kind of amounts to an open letter of sorts. Ah, Richard Dutcher if you’re not familiar is kind of regarded as the godfather of latterday saint cinema he was the one who wrote and directed god’s army way back when when no one had made movies like this and all of a sudden we were like dude someone made a full-length feature film about Lds missionaries.

49:49.38
Richie T
Ah.

49:51.44
Geoff Openshaw
This is amazing and I remember all the everyone was freaking out in Southern California because you’d find a couple theaters that played it and everybody wanted to go see it and all this stuff.

49:56.12
Richie T
Um, one it was actually good because it had a story. It had feeling in it I mean I wouldn’t.

50:00.50
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and it yes it was. It was a drama it opened the door for folks and that this is not a knock but for people like the hailstorm like the Kurt Hale individuals to make you know comedies lampooning a lot of things which also were met with varying degrees of success like any film right? So um, yeah I will.

50:13.77
Richie T
At first and then we’re a disaster. Ah.

50:19.76
Geoff Openshaw
Pretty much only go to bat for the first singles wordd after that it’s all kind of not as good first singles wordd that one disappointed me a little bit now. It’s disappointed me even more knowing this information actually I want to keep an eye hope for that then I’ll to ill have to watch again and check it out first.

50:21.48
Richie T
You know if you look carefully you can you can see this guy in the second singles war Geoff. Um, it’s bad I even have a speaking line so don’t blink.

50:37.80
Geoff Openshaw
The first singles word is actually pretty well written which is why I like it. It’s got a ah pretty sharp script. The other movies suffer and lean too much into just like lampooning goofy aspects of Lds culture and don’t even get me started on the rm the entire weird plot at the end of him getting arrested for drunk driving.

50:52.39
Richie T
I.

50:54.43
Geoff Openshaw
Like none of that would have happened I’m all for suspending disbelief in films. But that one makes no sense whatsoever I’m like did you breathyize the guy did you breathyize the guy because this whole thing would be over otherwise but they’re like no we have to have a conflict somehow that makes no sense of the end so under Richard ducher. Ah.

51:09.78
Richie T
Um, ah sure yep.

51:12.71
Geoff Openshaw
He inspired many to make all kinds of films sons. Oh ah, sorry sons of Provost also a classmate Ah anyway, but the things Richard Ducher has since not stayed part of the church really, he’s not active in the church his his faith journey has taken him elsewhere and the author of this. Mr. Mr. Geoff. You know mentions that he still believes god is a gift. He puts some Youtube videos with interviews of Richard ducher clearly god he stills a belief in god he cares a lot about faith. He’s just not involved in our church. He does the author does say he doesn’t know if like he’s come back to church or anything like that. He also notes that duer said his favorite project is to film falling which is an r rated movie based on dutcher’s life that is described as a drama that chronicles the mental and spiritual collapse of a hollywood videographer that’s got film noir written all over it.

51:57.83
Richie T
Here.

52:00.10
Geoff Openshaw
So he’s not heard a judge Richard duer. He’s here to tell us we’d love Richard Duer then kind of pivots in the end to say Richard dutcher people in the church. Still love you. There is room for you in the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints no matter what you’ve gone through despite my many shortcomings I was also welcomed with open arms when I joined the church and I know you would be welcomed also Richard Ducher you can have the faith of elder Dalton I believe Elder Dalton was his character in god’s army, right? I’ve heard your testimony and I know you believed it then the Testimony is still inside you someplace? Oliver Calderary and Martin Harris left the church and they came back. You can to conveniently not mentioning Sid Rigden in that statement which is interesting to me. But um.

52:18.59
Richie T
It was.

52:35.93
Geoff Openshaw
It’s a nice sentiment I dislike that this is like it’s not. It’s like a random. It’s kind of like just a random excuse to write about Richard duer because clearly what he wanted to say in the end was Richard ducher. Everyone loves you please come back to church but I have to pad this out with 400 extra words and just kind of write about who Richard duer is and you know they just.

52:44.82
Richie T
Sure.

52:54.44
Geoff Openshaw
Please come back Richard Dutcher I think we should write this to all just prominent latter day saint entertainers who are not here anymore. That’s what I’m saying once once in yep, many of those people struggled and that’s their life.

52:59.99
Richie T
Well I mean you could also pen one to will Swenson speaking of ah sons of provost and of singles ward. He’s since left the church several of those individuals.

53:14.25
Geoff Openshaw
Um, obviously we should Mindy Gladhill everybody that’s the one we really need to recapture. You can’t record the sum of all grace and then just disappear it just doesn’t work for me. It’s very.

53:22.12
Richie T
Um, you know, ah Richard duer huge cubs fan. Yeah well here’s the here here’s how I know that I was I got super inundated with loving the Chicago cubs in 162 when they won the world series.

53:25.96
Geoff Openshaw
Well, he must have been thrilled in 2016 what a what a great year for him.

53:40.62
Richie T
And Richard ducher and I hung out several times at sports bars watching the division series and then the world series together.

53:47.00
Geoff Openshaw
But did you invite him back to church. Did you tell him the church still loves him that he needs to come back.

53:50.67
Richie T
Um, well so so this is this is true and real and maybe you’ll believe it. Maybe you won’t but any of my friends who I know were members of the church and have subsequently left at some point in my knowing them I’ll grab them by the hand. Kind of the way that your grandma would grab you by the hand you know so you got one, you’re doing the handshake. But then you have the other hand on the other side and you just sort of coddle the hand and I look at them the in the eye and I’m being serious I do this to everyone that I know that at 1 time was a member of the church and I say as I look them in the eyes and I say hey you know what.

54:13.18
Geoff Openshaw
Sure yeah.

54:27.75
Richie T
You’re always welcome back and if you ever need anything let me know and some of them think that it’s very funny I genuinely mean it but it has become sort of a trademark thing that I do with anyone that I know was at 1 time a member of the church that that several people talk about the awkwardness of the have you had the Richie handshake. The stare in the eye handshake you’re welcome back whenever whenever and if I can do anything let me know.

54:51.80
Geoff Openshaw
But the problem is it’s become a joke now. So it’s your way of like saying something sincere. But do you say it with a little bit of a wink in your eye. You know while you’re doing it like you. You’re always welcome back I’m here for.

55:01.60
Richie T
Um, well I say I say it with with just enough sincerity that they feel it but also just enough levity that it’s not going to be awkward the next time I see them. Ah.

55:11.24
Geoff Openshaw
That Oh that’s the that’s that’s exactly the approach I took on my mission like you could get baptized just saying and then they’d be like dude you have plant you have planted that seed I am I am in.

55:21.60
Richie T
Yeah, here are ah.

55:28.60
Geoff Openshaw
I am in it’s okay, we didn’t baptize anybody in Spain what am I talking about come on. Don’t be silly. Um, that’s a funny story rich I like that get Richard Dutcher on let’s let’s you and I let’s talk to Richard Dutcher we’ll do it together. Let’s let’s do this.

55:31.76
Richie T
Um, you you shared? ah this article I’ll get him. He Facebook friend of mine Richard Ducher I’ll reach out ah elder Holland went to west point and dedicated a new chapel and talked to those.

55:47.33
Geoff Openshaw
Up We go into the wild blue. Yeah.

55:50.45
Richie T
And are protecting our freedoms now here’s the deal I think it’s cool. They got a new chapel. They’re dedicated super fun. You can you can read about it in the links in the show notes. Do you do links in the show notes. Okay, yeah, so you guys can check that out and and be able to see this service.

56:01.24
Geoff Openshaw
So we do links in the show notes always end forever. Yes, sir.

56:08.94
Richie T
Here is what I want to know about this story though and this is where maybe you and I differ you would actually talk about like where the building is and you know what it means for those people to protect freedom but the picture that’s associated with the article I can’t get past. it’s elder Holland. yeah it’s elder Holland

56:21.97
Geoff Openshaw
How he’s like grabbing the guy and.

56:27.47
Richie T
Both hands behind the neck of of a soldier and they’re They’re really close to each other the proximity of their faces to each other now I’m not insinuating anything you know, anything like that. But it is an uncomfortable looking picture to me that I just I don’t understand why that.

56:46.96
Geoff Openshaw
So to me it I I actually thought the same thing when I saw this photo I was like Woh That’s a very like passionate. It looks like you know like a grandpa like grabbing his boy and just being like maybe they like had a quick hug and that’s pulling out from the the hug and then he’s telling him kind things. But.

56:46.97
Richie T
Picture is the way that it is so you can check that out in the snow notes.

56:55.50
Richie T
But yeah I could be I I also I also thought that it looked like maybe the soldier was crying a little bit and so he was kind of like you know holding his head and just saying oh you’re so great and I love you in the way that Elder Holland would

57:06.53
Geoff Openshaw
Oh.

57:15.11
Richie T
But there needs to be some context for the picture because otherwise it is stop in your tracks What is going on in this picture.

57:22.51
Geoff Openshaw
That well it does say um, yeah I am with you on the emotion I feel like if I zoom in you can see a slight bit of of glossing glistening right near where the tear duct would be well. It does say he he has an emotional talk with cadet Brody low.

57:38.40
Richie T
Yeah, but but I don’t I don’t know if I got emotional with you that I would grab you by the back of your head and and hold you close. But.

57:40.12
Geoff Openshaw
Does say he has an emotional talk with him. That’s that’s all we know. And like it looks like you’re about to throw down but do do there Boom Boom did he was there any talk of Musket fire since he was at the military Academy fair.

57:55.33
Richie T
I did not I did not read that. Um your words, not mine as that’s my employer and not yours you can go ahead and say that.

58:06.18
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, um, another one here so you so might have seen in the past couple of weeks we talked last week a little bit about how there’s a lot going on with heavenly mother and a lot of talk on the social media about that another thing that was going around at the same time was referencing a 2003 ensign article by then elder Nelson about how god’s love was not unconditional.

58:14.23
Richie T
And you.

58:26.90
Geoff Openshaw
And I think you’ve seen a slightly similar talk by president oakes in the time in the years since then over it by common consent an article about the actual nature of what this means to call they’re asking is god’s love unconditional grappling with the 20 year old Lds Conundrum and I think this is interesting for 1 be clear the author basically says president Nelson you don’t understand the meaning of the love in a scriptural sense. Okay, so take that as you will, but basically the idea is that in modern english we say love is a type of emotion I love my wife I love my children I love my dog. You know, love this emotive thing I express love to you and therefore when people see that. President Elder Nelson would say that god’s love was conditional. In fact, there’s many on social media and elsewhere who have taken offense to this because it’s they’re like well what is this for 20 years we’ve had this doctrine out there quote unquote saying that that god does not actually like. Necessarily love me in the same way. A parent loves me like his love is not unconditional, but the article makes a point to say that the translations of the word love from the scriptures and Ben Spakman would vouch for this as well. Speaking more about divine love in the sense of covenantal loyalty is the way Ben Spakman puts it.

59:24.50
Richie T
So.

59:39.42
Geoff Openshaw
And when you look at it in that sense. It might make a little more sense to say that like it means that god does love us in the emotive sense. But if if we’re talking about love from the scriptures essentially saying like but he cannot bless us if we do not abide by his covenants and his rules and that is what it’s. Really saying in the scriptures. The problem is this has been sort of like we’ve removed that context because the scriptures will say god’s love is essentially conditional and many there’s instances where that you can read it and says it right there but what it means is his blessings are conditional upon us doing our part but then we’ve. Kind of removed that context and just said god’s love is conditional and and ported it into our modern day language the author argues that president Nelson should have said yes god conditionally unconditionally loves you but he doesn’t unconditionally approve of your behavior or unconditionally bless you. Um. Might be a reach to assume elder Holland does not understand the distinction in those things you know I don’t I don’t know I can’t speak for any of that. But I do think it’s a interesting interesting thing to to break out given the discussion here maybe understand that despite what that talk might have said the scriptures are not saying god does not. Love you in a parental sense. It simply means he cannot approve or bless you if you do not abide by what he wants I thought this was a good take given the fact I’ve seen this this the old Enign article going around interesting. So I sure do yeah.

01:00:59.49
Richie T
See and my thought was just you know how you have kids and you love them. But sometimes you don’t like them very much like that’s all I felt like that is right like sure God loves all of us. But there’s some of them for some of us. He doesn’t like very much.

01:01:08.25
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

01:01:15.97
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, okay I think even I think he even likes us pretty well. He just the different experience. Yes, there’s times with your kids you want to strangle them. But there’s a lot of times if you take a step back I do try to think of the way God Views me and I really think God is like mad at me I think God will express experience disappointment in me.

01:01:17.78
Richie T
Principal.

01:01:22.69
Richie T
You know.

01:01:30.88
Richie T
Sure Yeah, it doesn’t like you very much. Yeah, he loves you a ton. He just doesn’t like you very much.

01:01:33.55
Geoff Openshaw
And just sort of and just and and just think like ah Geoff come on buddy like come on. You can you can do you can do better than this I just never feel like he’s saying he doesn’t even like me in that instance, it’s more like he’s like buddy come on. It’s like.

01:01:44.13
Richie T
Listen I asked him he doesn’t like you very much sometimes no no I feel like that’s how parent you know we try and personify a heavenly father like our earthly father and I feel like that’s a very very easy translation right.

01:01:49.32
Geoff Openshaw
Carry on Richard.

01:02:01.15
Geoff Openshaw
So I.

01:02:03.44
Richie T
There are sometimes where my dad loves me so much but can’t stand to be around me because of the choices that I’ve made.

01:02:09.30
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s things I don’t I don’t feel that it goes as far as God not being able to stand being around me absolutely disappointment and such and’s for sure and I guess when I experience those times of frustration with kids in my mind I think one this is human and it’s okay that I’m feeling this way as long as I don’t make them feel like feel less than because of it. But I also think like.

01:02:13.88
Richie T
Um.

01:02:25.50
Richie T
True.

01:02:28.66
Geoff Openshaw
Part of me improving myself is not to experience any seething rage about my kids’ behavior but to find a way to get into a place where instead I’m being more responsible more empathetic trying to see things through their eyes more rather than strictly through. My eyes as a parent I think a lot of the rage that comes from parenting is because we get upset and it builds upon itself and you you stop thinking about how it is for your kid and you’re just thinking about how much they’re bothering you and how they’re not doing what you want them to be doing and if you can take a step back and try to think about the way your child sees this. It makes it easier not to get as Mad. It’s not easy though. I’m I’m not saying it’s like an easy practice but good. Yeah yeah, That’s fair, yeah lot a lot of anger there. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s for yeah, it’s good. Good Good. It’s going to be good.

01:03:05.23
Richie T
And yeah, ah, let me revise my statement then old old testament God Very much the okay, Okay, okay, okay, okay, good good I Just want to make sure you don’t get the letters.

01:03:21.80
Geoff Openshaw
I’ve got arrest of development references all over the place today that we.

01:03:24.52
Richie T
Ah, the relief society celebrating one hundred and eighty years congratulations relief society you know I think it’s a big deal I think that it is titanium I want to say is the one hundred and eightieth anniversary gift I think that’s what you give? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:29.15
Geoff Openshaw
Okay, so.

01:03:37.79
Geoff Openshaw
Are they still doing. It’s still doing that to that age.

01:03:42.73
Richie T
Ah, the thing that I think of note worthiness with this is not only you know the largest and oldest women’s organization and president Bingham um said on a visit to navu to where obviously the relief society started. We minister to one another just as they did in the early days an amazing organization and support for women. My takeaway from this was I remember when it was the sesquicentennial of the relief society I have that memory and that was thirty years ago which makes me feel super old and it was when I learned the meaning of the word sesquicentennial.

01:04:06.41
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

01:04:16.73
Geoff Openshaw
I I think I learned css west diennial from um, was it like first vision commemoration or church organization or something like that because the Salt Lake temple in the 90 s was the centennial the Salt Lake temple but I’ve also the wordessquicentennial absolutely comes from church experience for me I’ve never heard it anywhere else. Yeah.

01:04:28.14
Richie T
Right? Yeah yep, So I Hope they get I Hope they had a big cake doesn’t look like they did. Looks like they just celebrated and talking about the history of the Relief society 180 They don’t They don’t look a day over 60 congratulations Relief society.

01:04:46.32
Geoff Openshaw
Not at all and I like that they keep up the fine tradition of dressing for the occasion when they’re out visiting a developed nation. They’re like I’m still wearing my dress in my blouse. No walk around rockway down in this field that way. No way am I gonna put some appropriate pants and boots to do this? No um.

01:04:54.46
Richie T
You bet.

01:05:03.70
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, want to ask the sisters though. Should we get back to the release Society’s roots and do you feel like you should travel to temple sites and offer sustenance and like laundry services for the construction workers who are building the temples. You know what through tithing.

01:05:15.22
Richie T
Um, well in a way they do but you mean like old school like living on like living on property.

01:05:23.70
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I feel like that That’s part of the origination of it I want them to be sitting there outside be like here you go big guy.

01:05:29.49
Richie T
Hit what call what? what is your email address for people to send the hate mail to this episode. Okay, yeah, that’s Geoff.

01:05:37.37
Geoff Openshaw
That’s contacted this week at http://mormons.com everybody yeah what can I say except you’re welcome. So um, one thing I want to bring up that.

01:05:47.17
Richie T
Are we done I Only go an hour How long are we doing This are we done yet.

01:05:53.50
Geoff Openshaw
There’s 1 thing I want bring up here over here at the Zalofa heads daughters always interesting stats here decide to do a deep dive on the counts of name withheld articles in the endign or slash Leah Hona over the past couple of years and seeing if there’s anything to it. So um.

01:06:02.28
Richie T
Oh.

01:06:10.60
Geoff Openshaw
You know you can read. It’s it’s a long article. You can read all the details but it’s interesting because they broke out the nature of the articles like the subject matter whether it’s an article about pornography about unmarried sex crime bad thoughts a mental illness divorce and then trying to pick apart if the author was male or female which you could usually do in most cases and then finding light like um. Ah, hundred percent of the articles on abuse were written by women and 82% of the articles on being inactive were written by women for example, um, by women and and they also broke it out to discuss whether it’s about he I think it’s things to artists. But.

01:06:30.29
Richie T
Oh. Hundred percent of the articles about porn were written by women.

01:06:46.84
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, about totally losing my thought here. Well there’s also the part about learned good perfect basically like how was it at the end was it. You learned and experience you learned something from the experience. It was good in the end or in the end it was like had a perfect ending. They found males were more likely to write stories that had a perfect ending but women were more. About learning to accept difficult things and also the drop off is interesting because the number of name withheld articles has dropped significantly in the mid aughts and in particular since president Nelson came into office. For example, there’s 13 from 2016 to 2012 that can be broken but but that had name withheld. But 6 of them were in 2016 and only 4 after or 7 total in the remaining 4 years did that well of course there’s a reason you’re trying to protect your identity or don’t want embarrass other people.

01:07:30.70
Richie T
Yeah, we shouldn’t We shouldn’t do name withheld. There’s no reason No no, then don’t write an article to a magazine for a worldwide church.

01:07:44.51
Geoff Openshaw
Here’s the other thing though that I want to believe it. It’s 1 thing to say when it’s published the ensign the Leo Hona famously they hold onto content for a long time like if you write into them. They’re not gonna publish your stuff two months later or something like that you might write something and they don’t publish it for 10 years this is absolutely happened. So.

01:07:51.70
Richie T
Right.

01:07:56.53
Richie T
For sure.

01:08:01.94
Geoff Openshaw
For all, we know So I’m saying is it ah is it reflective of the times right? or is it all a delayed reflection of the times in a ways I don’t know. But.

01:08:07.10
Richie T
No it it is It is being a responsible not Journalist necessarily but you put names to things. The only the only way that I could see that you could do This is say that I write a letter and I or I write a story and I want the ensign to publish it. And they 10 years from now come back and say hey we would like to publish this and I say hey I’m not a member of the church anymore. Go ahead and publish it then at that point I think they would say okay, we’ll put this as an anonymous person because we don’t want the source to be a no longer member of the church that.

01:08:40.72
Geoff Openshaw
But what if the art is and and Richie I appreciate your perspective because I know you’ve had ah your own faith journey for sure. That’s that that’s taken you out of the church and back in and things like that.

01:08:43.45
Richie T
For me is the only anonymous way that you would do this and. Sure.

01:08:54.68
Geoff Openshaw
So so I do appreciate your perspectives in that sense because it’s very easy for me to look at this and say oh look I get it. You’re sensitive about things like what if your article is about past sins and and and things you’ve experienced and committed and those are dear to you and and those are experiences that have been. You know you’ve worked with bishops and and loved ones spouses. What have you? but obviously you don’t want your name out there speaking more publicly about it.

01:09:12.30
Richie T
No, no, if you’re writing no I I wholeheartedly disagree if you are writing an article sharing a story how much more power does it have to be Geoff from Virginia hey that’s a real person that I could find then anonymous.

01:09:14.59
Geoff Openshaw
I can understand it but no.

01:09:30.96
Geoff Openshaw
That’s true that.

01:09:31.27
Richie T
I don’t know who said it but there was someone who said that if I visit with my bishop and I can find my way back. No Geoff in Virginia said that if I can visit with my bishop I can find my way back completely different.

01:09:43.80
Geoff Openshaw
That’s true I mean I’ll give you that do you think this falls in line with the same idea of ah like I’ve long believed. We should be a little more open with these each other in like eldersorm lessons and things like now like like if if brethren in your ward are struggling with things that might be serious. There’s a line where she go to a bishop but like I’ve I’ve rarely been on a lesson I’ve been in lessons.

01:09:49.39
Richie T
Yes, yes, yes.

01:10:01.60
Geoff Openshaw
Some guy says like I struggled with like porn for a long time like this is a hard thing for me to work through and it gives you whiplash because we we keep these things so buttoned up and bottled up because they are private. But I think sometimes there is value in us being a little more public with some of in the appropriate setting and context but being more public with what we go through because it can help others.

01:10:02.89
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:15.13
Richie T
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:21.40
Geoff Openshaw
Know that it’s real for one like yeah, we all go through stuff like it’s easy to look at everyone and say oh, they’re all so much better than me I am weak I Sin I know the rest of the quorum doesn’t sin. They’re also good right? Be helpful I so.

01:10:30.89
Richie T
No, it’s the times that you grow closer to other people because you recognize that they’re real people in those Elders quorums or relief societies where you sit there and it’s a bunch of people that you know you’re you’re going very surface on whatever the topic may be. You’re not gaining anything from it which isn’t mean to mean.

01:10:44.81
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:47.98
Richie T
You know everyone needs to overshare or any struggle you’ve ever had. But when moved on by the spirit when you feel like it would be beneficial for other people to hear about your struggles. You don’t say something and you’re in you know to go to the. Where the story started. You don’t go you know I heard that there was a gentleman that struggled with porn and you know I heard that he no you say hey guess what I am a gentleman who struggled with porn addiction. And the things that I found were able to be bump but bump but boom whatever the things were to be able to come through it and then people can relate to that person. We should no longer anonymize any sort of article in enzign and Leah Hona unless and here’s the 1 caveat bringing it all around full circle. Are you ready for this.

01:11:23.00
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:33.18
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, Boom I was gonna sayribu it to Zeezrom How would it a bet I like Zeezrom it’s good guy.

01:11:35.49
Richie T
And lest we attribute it to Moroni ah Zoru.

01:11:46.53
Geoff Openshaw
Appreciate that rich. Thank you real quick i’re not gonna have a big discussion on it I’ll put a link to it. There’s an article over at religion news about Putin’s invasion of Ukraine being rooted deeply in religion. It doesn’t specifically go into our church necessarily but you can read it and kind of understand I think some of the situation. As for why it’s a bit difficult for us our church to continue to operate in Russia. And just understanding the world religions even playing in conflicts like this and just think about what we can do better to not make religion a a a deciding factor in whether or not we invade our brethren so long and short of it though is that it’s not just about it’s about Russia becoming increasingly orthodox in its view of what it means to be russian as far as being russian orthodox. And coupled with the fact that Ukraine has tried to throw off the influence of the Moscow Patriarchate of the orthodox church and attain autocephalous status which makes them like their own. So basically basically Ukraine’s Orthodox Church has been recognized by Constantinople but not by Moscow and this does play a factor into like. Putin basically saying like yeah well like the article even says putinviss a world where the political center is Moscow the religious center is key because that’s sort of the homeland for a lot of orthodox. You can read the rest not overtly about our church but I think it’s worth people’s knowledge so they understand what’s going on.

01:12:55.80
Richie T
And you’ll notice with that story that there is an author that they attribute it to.

01:13:04.25
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, whereie’s feeling it all right folks I’m grabbing the mic right now like I’m a member of limp bizki or Papa Roach suffocation no breathing

01:13:10.40
Richie T
I.

01:13:18.18
Geoff Openshaw
Gonna say the next line it’ profanity. So everybody thanks for being here this week appreciate your time once again, go to http://patreon.com/thisweek in mormons or slash the cultural and support your favorite podcast financially remuneratively that would be very kind of you to do so and visit http://richieovertheculturalha.com where you can listen to a lot of good interviews that you do with all sorts of people.

01:13:35.29
Richie T
Oh let me can I tea can I tease 1 the Thursday before general conference we’re at visiting with a guy named Martin Polito who wrote a book the boys guide to heavenly mother. So that’s one we’re excited about coming up.

01:13:36.96
Geoff Openshaw
And I never know how you find the time hey you can choose one go for.

01:13:47.38
Geoff Openshaw
Oh boy this after that after we know you’re not supposed to be speculating about heavenly mother.

01:13:51.88
Richie T
Um, it’s not speculation. He is wellresearched and active member of the church.

01:13:57.12
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know everyone everyone you know what? John dolin was wellres researchched and an active member of the church Kate Kelly was a well-researched active member of the church should we continue down the slope Richie we can continue down this slope. Okay, fine listen to that podcast everyone and just tell him what you think it’ll be good.

01:14:06.79
Richie T
Well James got really impressive.

01:14:14.97
Geoff Openshaw
And you can find that wherever you get your podcast just like this show and of course you can follow both of our respective properties on social media on the the facebooks the twitters do you Instagram that culture of all. Okay.

01:14:22.19
Richie T
Of course, of course we’ve even thought about tick talking. Yeah same yeah.

01:14:26.97
Geoff Openshaw
I have 2 but I know what I would do right same thing anyway. So folks thanks for being here richitchie appreciate your time buddy good to see his so for Rie I’m Geoff this has been this week in mormons have a great week. We’ll talk to li but bye.

 

Share this post

Share on facebook
Share on twitter
Share on linkedin
Share on pinterest
Share on email
Share on whatsapp

More Good Stuff

Stay current with all things Latter-day Saints

Give Us Your Sacred Email

We don’t spam, unless you consider emails from us recapping stuff to be spam.