EP 579 – Holy Fetch, the Washington D.C. Temple Open House Is Actually Happening

TWiM_EP529_Washington_DC_Temple_Open_House
Washington, DC's temple is finally open to the public, President Nelson is super old, and can LDS kids do "Fiddler on the Roof" justice?

It’s a great week in Latter-day Saintdom, and Kurt Francom, venerated host and founder of the Leading Saints podcast, is here to help make sense of it all.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hello listeners welcome to another episode of this week in mormons I’m Geoff Openshaw yes he is and we are here. Geoff it’s fun I what one when did you last pod. It’s like January or something. It’s been a while.

00:04.97
Kurt Francom
And I’m Kurt Frankham yes I am Geoff I’m back invited me back here I am yeah I’ve been I’ve been ghosting you long enough. Yeah.

00:17.81
Geoff Openshaw
And well yeah, you know you tell me, you’re trying to say no to things and I say I don’t care say Yes, just as one of my my oldest son used to say when he’s a tallddler. No say no say Yes, that’s what he would say when he didn’t get his. What.

00:23.90
Kurt Francom
I.

00:27.79
Kurt Francom
Nice yeah you say no a lot. You’re a no dad aren’t you Geoff and it’s true. Good cop, bad cop in your house. Ah.

00:33.10
Geoff Openshaw
I can be someone’s got to be a bad cop and I think it’s me Yeah, how is the life of both curv frankum and the leading saints franchise. What’s going on.

00:42.82
Kurt Francom
Um, well I am in the miss of you know I’ve ive ventured into this world of of writing a book. A manuscript is in the works at the moment and I’m I’m just about there I’m having ah an editor go through take 1 more pass at it and then I’m gonna. Put this thing to bed and if people buy it whatever. But yes, no, no, this is nonfiction. Ah, my hope is to get on the bookshellves of popular bookstores next to books such as Brad Wilcox or John by the way it’s sort of in that.

01:02.66
Geoff Openshaw
Is it fiction. Did you write a fictional book. Oh.

01:18.71
Geoff Openshaw
Aha aha.

01:20.80
Kurt Francom
That vein where we maybe jump into a gospel principle in a way That’s a little more encouraging and brings clarity to our lives so that we are more so the working title right now which I think I don’t have a publisher I’m self publishing so I get to pick the title is it.

01:26.55
Geoff Openshaw
Do we have a set Do we have a title yet. Are you willing to share.

01:34.78
Geoff Openshaw
Do whatever you want? Oh yeah, you’ve you’ve talked about this a little bit this subject. Oh yeah, that’s that’s why it sounds familiar I’ve read it? Yes, thank you.

01:38.58
Kurt Francom
The title is is God disappointed in me. Yeah, you’ve read the the early manuscript. It’s much different. Yeah well but it’s changed quite a bit since you read it. So thanks to your feedback and those of many other Beta readers who.

01:54.76
Geoff Openshaw
Well my notes just said Yes, yes yes that I was just confirming your thesis. You’re like is God disappointed him me? Yes, yes, yes, yes, that’s kiurt. Yes, yes I don’t know how he would be Kurt you’re doing. You’re doing his work. You’re doing. You’re doing good thing.

01:55.80
Kurt Francom
Told me where I was crazy and where I needed to adjust.

02:01.66
Kurt Francom
Good. Yes, he is yes, he’s terribly disappointed and in you. So yeah, that project is sort of dominating my time we’re actually looking at doing some different ah leading saints retreats in the. Ah, in the coming you know I guess the end of of 2022 in the coming year twenty yeah yes, war paint. You know, walk on coals now. None of that these are nothing weird but we found that there’s more and more interest in this this type of activity and so.

02:23.41
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s when you like you take people into the woods and do chance and stuff like that like that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

02:36.65
Geoff Openshaw
What What do you do on a retreat just like do leadership workshops that kind of thing.

02:40.99
Kurt Francom
Yeah, you can call that so like 1 retreat we do is ah with the the warrior heart group there. Ah and then we sort of partnered with them. They do what they call boot camps. There are men’s retreats and then they have a women’s retreat as well and there’s ah you know they have sessions where. Speaker goes through a concept breaks it down and then they give you a sort of reflection time after that and then there’s you know you have some fun and adventure time and then good food and and people love it. It’s they’re transformational Geoff so I hope to get you 1 on 1 you get you on one of these. So.

03:12.10
Geoff Openshaw
All you have to do is comp my ticket and meals and I’m good so that it that is that is the standard twin twin rate as long as I don’t pay for any of it I’m good. That’s fine.

03:16.34
Kurt Francom
Ah, we are looking I want to do one in Virginia. So if if we you’ll do anything for. Ah, hey you got invest in yourself. Geoff.

03:31.90
Geoff Openshaw
Folks I will come and speak at any event you want I do lots of corporate things I’m very entertaining I’ve done a number I’ve emeed a number of award Christmas parties war trunk retreats um award talent shows various games I’ve done lots of things at award level for i’ sing I’ve spoken at stake meetings before but I have.

03:38.34
Kurt Francom
Um, ah.

03:49.84
Geoff Openshaw
Lest you forget many years ago that they these some fools got alllanide to present about like so social media for letterday saints and southern it was in California coincided with I think a trip we were taking there anyway I think unless we built it all around that I don’t know. But yes, there’s alllannna.

03:53.93
Kurt Francom
Um I remember this and it was it was it in California right.

04:05.64
Kurt Francom
They didn’t comp your airfare or.

04:09.21
Geoff Openshaw
No Al and I are there I didn’t have kids yet or anything but like my wife comes with me al and I are there in the Irvine Stick Center and we’re like we’re going to show and it was hilarious just seeing our competing ways of doing things I’ve like built out an entire powerpoint deck Lots of thoughtful points. You know, like Structured. It’s got a flow I’ve rehearsed it. And Al was just like I’m just going to get up there and just talk about stuff I’m like oh boy, oh Boy. So.

04:26.44
Kurt Francom
Um, if they didn’t call you back or maybe they didn’t they discontinued.

04:30.73
Geoff Openshaw
They did it because they did it because we were maybe they discontined also maybe we offered nothing insightful for people I mean you know it was. It was a good time. The panel discussion afterwards with other influencers was great. This was when like the lts influencer space was much smaller folks. We’re probably we probably did this in like 2013 or something like that I would guess is when that happened.

04:43.53
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

04:50.13
Geoff Openshaw
Um, it was not as large back then so people like like me could skate by peddling influence as it were and nobody called me on it nowadays. Well I don’t know I don’t even know if I could get a column over at Public Square Magazine Even if I tried right? That’s just just how things are.

04:50.15
Kurt Francom
Sure.

05:05.10
Kurt Francom
Um, I know a guy Geoff I can get you so.

05:09.59
Geoff Openshaw
Um, yes I’m in listeners don’t know I was actually supposed to have a pathos column a while ago. Yeah, we never agreed on like the title of the column and then Discussants just kind of fizzled out.

05:16.76
Kurt Francom
Um, and.

05:23.16
Kurt Francom
What did you want to write about.

05:25.95
Geoff Openshaw
I don’t know just the swim me. It’s like just musings from Geoff like what else you gonna say I don’t know like does here’s my observations on life within the church that you know I I wanted to like do some kind of hilarious I think I want to do a? ah. Play on I even made some joke about Dan Peterson’s column which was you know sick at none or whatever and I read some other something else in latin that was like shut up Dan Peterson but in latin or something like that I had a lot of ideas I could dig a all up if you want to know irascible. So here’s what we should call it irascible sainthood.

05:51.31
Kurt Francom
Nice, nice. So how’s life in your world. Geoff. Oh boy trademark that hurry. So.

05:58.91
Geoff Openshaw
Could be better than that. That’s perfect. Thank you I already own the domain um not much here. You know we’re chogging along living the life having the good times hope Easter was great for everyone listening all in balai had in a very nice easter with family and friends I did go to California though.

06:10.89
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

06:17.36
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, Weaker change ago was my mom’s birthday that was wonderful I had not been back to my Homeland since before the pandemic started and so that was really nice to get my siblings together celebrate my mom’s birthday had a great time. Thank.

06:25.45
Kurt Francom
Yeah, so I saw some random ah story of you like walking on the road side by the airport. What tells the story.

06:32.70
Geoff Openshaw
Um, that was awesome. This is well I’m Geoff Openenshaw and I I like to go on adventures even random ones so it was mostly like I landed at long beach airport. My sister was getting in and out battle like an hour and 10 minutes later if you’ve been to long beach airport. It’s tiny. It’s cool tiny like it’s a cool little airport but it’s so small that like you’re walking outdoors in a secured area and then your baggage claim is like it’s outside like it looks like a high school locker row that just got they replaced the lockers with a conveyor belt. You’re just like standing there outdoors and get your bags. Point is there’s nowhere to hang out really after you’ve already done your stuff and so I was very hungry because I was on East Coast time I had it had a meal for like 10 hours probably by that point a proper one anyway. Um, and I didn’t want to I looked at uber prices just to go up the street I knew there was like a shopping entertainment area up the road a little bit. But it was like fifteen bucks just to get there I’m like I’m not doing this. Why am I gonna do this so I just grab my I just grabbed my bag and just started walking and I took a beautiful video that you saw of me just walking along the airport perimeter and doing. Yeah.

07:28.65
Kurt Francom
So you swallowed your pride and you walked.

07:36.90
Kurt Francom
And it was like you next to a runway. Obviously there’s like a barbed wire fence and then a familiar role of the luggage sound you know behind you like.

07:43.48
Geoff Openshaw
It? Yeah oh it was just delight. It was absolutely delightful I’m so glad I did it I stumbled upon this great new development in long Beach The long Beach exchange and I went to this place called the hangar which had a bunch of food kiosks. It was all cool and fun and and millennial eque I should see.

07:56.65
Kurt Francom
Um, and you got that meal.

08:01.40
Geoff Openshaw
My wife was right? She’s like you need to put like a picture of the like the result of your trouble because it just kind of ends and no one knows what happens to you I think that’s fair I basically ended it and on act 2 and I never showed anybody else. What happened what happened was I got some delicious donor kabob from a place and I was very very pleased with it and it was wonderful.

08:04.58
Kurt Francom
Yeah, we didn’t know if you were abducted Geoff we I mean.

08:17.88
Kurt Francom
What you do in the future Geoff is you go to http://maps.church of Jesus Christ Dot Org and you find the bishop. The local bishop’s phone number and then you call him like hey my name’s Geoff I mean I’m currently standing in your ward.

08:23.33
Geoff Openshaw
I Find a meeting house pick me up.

08:34.49
Geoff Openshaw
Are you not the bishop for all people in your ward boundaries. Not just those on your list because that’s what they say how how hilarious did that what it was so funny like I’m sorry what like I don’t need a ride. You were big.

08:35.10
Kurt Francom
I Need a ride from the airport. Yeah because I am activate your Keys bishop. Let’s do this literally your keys go get him.

08:50.28
Geoff Openshaw
Just take me up to that shopping center and dum me it’ take so it’s like a total of 10 minutes of your time. It’s going to be fine. Yeah, so that was fun. Thanks for bringing that one up yes, folks, you can follow me on Instagram where you can see me just just walking along you know Lakewood Boulevard just hanging out with people people were staring at me people don’t walk as much in California as they do in the Dc area.

08:52.63
Kurt Francom
Yeah, right right? yeah.

09:01.83
Kurt Francom
Nice.

09:08.96
Geoff Openshaw
I was the only one on that road but I felt perfectly safe. It was very gentrified. Lucky me.

09:11.48
Kurt Francom
Nice, the Fbi was wondering why this shady character was walking by the runway. Yeah.

09:15.97
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, probably a little bit but though you know they wondered that about me anyway. So it’s fine as al used to call me the bearded nationalist as our twin theme song says is the bearded nationalist in DC the problem is nationalist means kind of a different thing in our this day and age so as you can tell we’re vamping hard folks. We don’t know what we’re doing.

09:28.88
Kurt Francom
Um, yes, it is. That’s right, nothing happened this week

09:35.94
Geoff Openshaw
it’s it’s it’s it’s a fun grab bag of news. It’s funny how comparatively light it is on news only because last week we had our great interview with Adam Joner all about the history of like the saints in Jacksonian America if you haven’t listened to that. Really interesting discussion. Adam’s an extremely entertaining professor. Love talking to him about all of this subject matter and really good to kind of get we know a lot of the history of the saints but it was good to kind of understand that and how it how it contrasted and where it fit into like that period of American History what made that period of American History unique in particular and specifically. Kind of how concepts of religious freedom sort of failed that like those protections weren’t there even if they were on paper and obviously that affected the saints. So check that out and of course the week before we had conference so we haven’t done news proper for a number of weeks and you’d think we’d have three weeks worth of news built up but we don’t we do not.

10:25.49
Kurt Francom
Let me ask you this Geoff with you mentioned conference couple weeks ago. Ah, now that we’re what two weeks out like any lingering feelings of as the just another conference in the books like what? what are you sensing from where we’re at from this this conference.

10:27.34
Geoff Openshaw
Because to all.

10:39.55
Geoff Openshaw
But I would I would encourage you to listen to our conference episode to have that information Kurt I nothing for me is super drastic now I mean a weird perverse part of me almost misses the the like intimate little conferences that we were doing.

10:44.70
Kurt Francom
I did I did but I’m saying like now that we’re got a few weeks behind us anything changed that you would yeah.

10:58.40
Geoff Openshaw
In the early pandemic days I thought it was actually kind of like nice and not as self-agrandizing in a way you know here we are in our beautiful hall that we have built look at our our amazingness. But.

10:58.18
Kurt Francom
Um, oh yeah.

11:05.13
Kurt Francom
And then they’d cut to like a 70 who’s like in Europe in some random chapel giving the recording. Yeah.

11:09.80
Geoff Openshaw
It was kind of fun. Yeah I thought exactly and I know we were doing that out of necessity. But in many ways I think it illustrated some things that we could potentially do differently that we don’t always I mean typically the 70 s come into town for conference and that’s what we’re able to do again but and they have leadership training and all that overall though, no I mean it was I’m not calling it run of the mill.

11:16.59
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

11:28.30
Geoff Openshaw
Obviously the big takeaway was Missionaries and I think that was one of the biggest threads that kind of stuck out just like the need for missionaries to take this opportunity seriously prospective Missionaries Rather what about you.

11:33.95
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah. You know I’ve been ah jumping in a few of them just reviewing them and there’s there’s always a few that I’m like there typically 70 s I’m like I’m not exactly sure what you were getting at there. So now that I have the text in front of me I’m gonna sit down with you here and we’re gonna.

11:42.15
Geoff Openshaw
I Need to start.

11:54.46
Geoff Openshaw
I do need to do that and I’m really I’m pleased with myself this this highlights. How pathetic I am as a church member but between the past two conferences I succeeded in my goal of reading through all the conference talks from that october conference for it which I usually set a goal to do and inevitably don’t do and.

11:54.54
Kurt Francom
Um, you’re going to teach me a little bit more clearly. So.

12:06.29
Kurt Francom
Um, oh yeah, what do you do like take one a week or how did you get to it.

12:13.90
Geoff Openshaw
Just kind of as just kind of as I go I didn’t create like a structure to say do it on these dates just just get through it and it’s fine and it was great. Yeah, so it’s fun I did 1 thing that one talk that stuck out since you mentioned it when I was in California I went to the elders core there in my old home ward.

12:16.61
Kurt Francom
You you did 70 hard didn’t you is that what they call? Yeah and that got you right? yeah.

12:30.53
Geoff Openshaw
And they already like had prepped a talk based on the last week and and so they talked about Sister Aberto’s talk essentially like we are the church was her argument. Yeah and I thought that was a really cool area to explore.

12:37.22
Kurt Francom
We are the church. Yeah.

12:43.56
Geoff Openshaw
It’s easy first talk about well what is the church is the church essentially is the church infrastructure is it buildings is it infrastructure both physical and also notional and organizational. You know the stuff that the the structure that helps us enter into covenants with the lord is that what the church is that’s like part of it but she was really arguing that like we are the church like when when Christ talks about.

13:03.50
Kurt Francom
Right.

13:03.21
Geoff Openshaw
You know we are his body in that sense like it is us. It is the things we do. It is how we act towards 1 another like we are the church. It was great because I just watched Thor Ragnarok just just barely days before I watched watched it I watched it on the plane to California it is a goodie.

13:08.23
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

13:14.40
Kurt Francom
Here we go. That’s a goodie.

13:20.46
Geoff Openshaw
And I’d say spoiler alert but you’ve all had like 5 years to watch it so whatever in the end when asgard is being destroyed. The people say multiple times they’re like asgard is a people not a place and I didn’t say this nulderersscorn but it was kind of funny that popped in my head like it is the same idea like I know we talk about being a zion people and of course zion is a place both in the Missouri context and.

13:33.55
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

13:39.20
Geoff Openshaw
People of eat it context but um, but like we are the zion people. That’s what the Lord wants us to be is it to be like it says in the book of Moses to be a zion people and there’s things that make us a zion people and like we are the church so that that one’s fresher in my mind because we already had a lesson on it which I thought was a great turnaround Also for that elders quorum to get in there and do one from a talk that was ah.

13:48.63
Kurt Francom
Yeah, and nice. Yeah, you know and that you know Christ have framed it that the kingdom of god is is in us. You know I think that’s a fascinating consequence you kind of think of a kingdom as like a you know, established order or government or whatever and but no, we are.

13:58.95
Geoff Openshaw
Ah week old by that point so good for them.

14:14.70
Kurt Francom
We are the church and but you know I think some people struggle with that with you know, then how you know where do we draw the line of autonomy that we have in our faith tradition and experience and it’s kind of tricky but goody.

14:24.49
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it was good. Thanks for bringing that. So now now you reminded me they are there I need to update my bookmark start working my way through the next conference I have until October thanks for happening I just do it on the app I do do you want me to get like a published issue of the Leah Hona and Mark it up because I’ll do that. But.

14:31.49
Kurt Francom
Boom. Do you do on your on your ah the app or no with the old school highlighter. No I’m I use the app as well. So you got it. Yeah to be tagging and you know you can.

14:44.46
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, you can you can highlight in the app I have I think I mentioned it once in the past there would potentially be value in me like looking through my old quad and going through lds tool or or even going through my. Like scriptures online signed in and like highlighting the same things in my scriptures and the same notes and trying to harmonize the 2 which could be good I view it as like a life record. There’s some people who actually read through scriptures and Mark them up and then discard them I’ve seen it heard of apostles doing this and then they start over and look what new insights they can get I’m more of a I want to see the.

15:01.57
Kurt Francom
Um.

15:09.10
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

15:16.34
Geoff Openshaw
Full accumulation of my life’s thoughts on scriptures. But anyway all right? So mentioned 1 thing during conference talked about missionaries right? that stood out a lot. They they so president Nelson stressed that like you know while it’s nice that sisters if they want to go. They wouldn’t welcome it. But.

15:24.60
Kurt Francom
And.

15:33.43
Geoff Openshaw
All worthy young men should serve an honorable mission. 1 thing that I thought was interesting is many people treated this like it was a very bold statement which it kind of was after not saying that for a while but that’s kind of been the line for a while.

15:41.15
Kurt Francom
Yeah, sure.

15:46.17
Geoff Openshaw
All worthy young men should serve an honorable full time mission. That’s been a thing. We’ve said for a very long time. That’s not particularly new I think we just have stopped emphasizing it and now as we mentioned on the conference recap The number of Missionaries plummeted during Covid a lot of people either went home because of Covid they went home just because it was time to go home and then a lot of people chose not to go out. Go out.

16:03.23
Kurt Francom
You know.

16:05.54
Geoff Openshaw
And kudos to those who did go out and have made the most of it during that time but we’re very low on numbers both overall and as a percentage of total church membership. It’s never been lower in that sense. So there’s clearly a need over at does Lofa Hads daughters always doing great work over there in terms of stats which I love I think it’s fun. Some people might leave comments that are negative. But the stats side of it is great because they they pulled apart the statistical report from 2021 and talked about proselytizing versus service missionary counts and we hear a lot about full time when they talk about full-time missionaries even like when we speak of that number. We’re almost always referring to proselytizing missionaries. And that sense when we’re talking that there’s fifty five four thousand of them that’s missionaries wearing the tags knocking the doors doing the discussions. That’s the deal. What we don’t usually talk about is that we have so a huge amount of service missionaries nearly 40000 service missionaries as well. That’s a significant portion of the total missionary effort and so. Ah, they just sought to look at the overall statistical report look for any anomalies. 1 curious one is the number of service missionaries dipped less hard. Well actually covid didn’t hurt it as badly, right? Um, and the. The surge during covid it was a bit better. The uptick as conditions have improved was better for service missionaries than for proselytizing missionaries. So I thought that was some interesting data and another one down here shows the total number of missionaries in the church. Um over certain periods of time and that includes proselytizing so there’s roughly ninety. Odd. 90000 or so but then the percentage that service missionaries comprise of that and they’re currently at the highest level ever. It’s like 40% of total missionaries are service missionaries which I think is awesome and that’s great. The article doesn’t make a point just wondering. It’s like the second to last paragraph. How general authorities will or will not react if the percentage of service missionaries the portion exceeds 50% or more like if we get to the stage where we are rendering service effectively more than we are proselytizing.

17:59.62
Kurt Francom
A.

18:06.88
Geoff Openshaw
Will that be a thing where they feel like they have to ride the ship and essentially say like this is all well and good that we’re doing service missions they’re valuable and important kind of like the sisters you want to serve That’s great. We love you. We support you in it. But if they might want to you know lovingly remind everyone but the proselytizing is that’s kind of ah that’s kind of where the the buck stops. We got to focus on that people.

18:23.00
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

18:26.21
Geoff Openshaw
So I thought that was just some interesting ah data points and it reminded me as well because how um because was it was a couple years ago the church changed the whole process for serving a missions you used to apply for different types of missions and now it’s the same application process for everybody and you may serve different types of missions depending on what happens which is great cause I think that kind of. Took it away from saying oh I’m serving a mission which means a proselytizing mission and then I’m serving a service mission right? I think we still think that way like a mission going on a mission means that type and I hope we can get away from that and like revere all missions equally as equally valuable. Okay.

18:54.58
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well it makes me wonder you know we’ll never know this but just in you know in these meetings as they’re emphasizing missionary work you know and in the in the private council meetings. Do they see missionary work as a vehicle for. You know, obviously membership growth or is it more primarily for the development of the people right? and and so is it. Maybe if that service missionary number passes that 50% Mark maybe that’s no big deal because our people are being developed or is it I don’t know like the growth of it I don’t know.

19:17.15
Geoff Openshaw
Of the mission of the missionaries. Yeah.

19:32.62
Kurt Francom
I don’t know how they value that or how how they see it obviously they always want growth I think you know we want to bring as many people to Christ and his restored gospel but wondered sort of the motives behind this which we’ll probably never know but it’s fascinating.

19:37.50
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah. We We won’t um I think those who serve service missions get a lot of satisfaction out of it which is not to say you don’t from proselytizing I Want I Do think that service might be more like purely joyful if that makes any sense because you’re just out there.

19:48.95
Kurt Francom
Here.

19:56.71
Geoff Openshaw
Directly serving people and seeing the fruits of your labors. Obviously if you’re sharing the message of the gospel. That’s a form of service in a way but it is a lot more emotionally taxing to kind of get there and get through that process I mean you you know you and I bull submissions you know I’m sure sacramento in that sense was a little different from Spain it was just simply the fact that it’s sometimes very hard to get people to want to listen to what you have to say.

20:05.92
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

20:13.76
Kurt Francom
Right? Yeah, what it makes me wonder you know the service mission machinery experience if I would assume there’s a lot less of this feeling of quotas or numbers or you know how many people are you teaching? you know you just baptize somebody who’s next where it’s more like you know I just show up every day and.

20:16.26
Geoff Openshaw
And then to get to make progress with any of those people and that that can be taxing up for a while. So.

20:26.30
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s 2 Yeah.

20:33.37
Kurt Francom
And just do this thing and I’m giving and this is a great time in my life.

20:35.76
Geoff Openshaw
Did I ever tell you about the experiment I did once on my mission about numbers in a way I mean we track numbers people track numbers. It’s it’s fine and I don’t want a little bit and I to be clear I don’t mind numbers I like numbers I Love Data I Love Data I Want to see it. It’s a fun way to tell stories. Um.

20:41.87
Kurt Francom
Oh here’s here’s a Barcelona case study. Let’s hear it Geoff yeah sure. Yeah.

20:53.53
Geoff Openshaw
But I got concerned about the emphasis in our case on numbers and it was always like a certain number of contacts. You’re supposed to get like one hundred a week as a companion ship of contact was literally like testifying to someone was a contact a certain number of as we call them. You know thinktas pataable but like you know, basically ah return appointments based on your contacts. And then like the actual number of discussions. You might have had during a week which in Spain was a probably comparatively low number if I were talking to those of you who served somewhere like South America or potentially like West Africa but it was all relative.

21:19.30
Kurt Francom
Um.

21:23.91
Geoff Openshaw
And so I’d get a little burned out on that I was the zone leader down there and like I knew it was important at the same time I worried so much because I frankly we saw ourselves at times like you’re so concerned about hitting your numbers. We I took part in it. We’d like take our hymnbooks down to this main esplanade in the city and just stand there and sing hymns. And and and we’re like everyone who’s hearing us is hearing messages of the restored gospel these all count. We’d be like what was Allie I 30 contacts all right good deal. You know and like that’s not that’s not the spirit of it right? So um, so one week in our district my whole zone we decided to we knew we sell to report numbers. But i.

21:43.71
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

21:49.23
Kurt Francom
Thanks Yeah, yeah.

22:00.83
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, implemented this plan where companions would switch off each day being the one who kept track of like what work was done and like you and we’ve all committed like you’re not going to stare at your little your little blue sheet. Did you have the blue folding calendars remember the calendars. Yeah like I’d love. We’d We’d log stuff in there right? And so.

22:10.87
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, those are great I got got them all stuff.

22:16.84
Geoff Openshaw
Like here’s the you’re not goingnna stare at that during the day you’re not going to check it but check in on it and’s like oh man I’m a couple contacts shy of like hitting a daily goal. You’re just gonna do the work and just hit your little check marks as you go. Don’t worry about it and then the companions would alternate each day and then not share with 1 another. How things were going at all that was the plan.

22:31.25
Kurt Francom
Um I see him.

22:34.90
Geoff Openshaw
Do as much as we could to still collect data basically without like keeping an eye on it during the week because I still had to report it so then by the end of the week we all compiled. We got together and compiled all of our stuff and I talked to the assistants and my zone did like 20% better than they normally did on given weeks and I don’t that’s just 1 case study not necessarily.

22:46.92
Kurt Francom
Um, well.

22:54.10
Geoff Openshaw
The overall truth but I thought it was very interesting at least anecdotally that I thought when my zone was less concerned about hitting certain numerical goals. They were just out there doing the work and loving the work and they actually performed better in the process and I thought that was pretty cool. It talked me a good lesson doesn’t cover every situation but it reminded me a lot about just do the work.

23:02.27
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah.

23:09.22
Kurt Francom
So did you perpetuate that that approach or.

23:13.41
Geoff Openshaw
No, not exactly I think I told the assistants about it and they didn’t like that I did it.

23:18.78
Kurt Francom
You see you got to make it sound like their idea Geoff and then.

23:21.40
Geoff Openshaw
I Guess so sometimes I mean there’s assistance could drive me crazy when I remember yeah I know its there was one time we had this like urgency campaign and like I pick up the phone. They just yell can see ah and the phone. It’s like I’ll shut up like why are you saying this.

23:37.15
Kurt Francom
And they’re in the plush mission office and you’re like and this remote apartment.

23:38.54
Geoff Openshaw
Is so dumb like you’re just driving your van around the pyrenees. Well I am anyway. So sorry for the long tail there. But I thought that was cool. Note I Hope we can tell.

23:46.94
Kurt Francom
Yeah, that is cool and that’s cool. So Geoff I want to know what’s what’s the vibes in in the DC area right now with the the temple open house and you know Cbs Sunday morning. They just did an ah interesting interview with ah 2 apostles and you know that they’re beginning to open.

24:00.33
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah. More or less so they’ve been doing private like Vip tours of the open house. Basically the the official open house to the public doesn’t start until this coming weekend. Um, everyone’s very excited I think we’re excited because it’s finally real.. That’s the biggest thing this has just been our elusive temple reopening for a long Time. So I think it’s cool and it’s fun right now.

24:04.77
Kurt Francom
Open the open house. Yeah.

24:17.61
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

24:24.25
Geoff Openshaw
Just strictly just it’s just fun to see like the Pr part of it in full swing now things are getting real like right? We’re taking dignitaries through you’ve got apostles given remarks to the visitor center you have the Cbs Sunday morning video that you referenced which is great. Well we’ll embed it on this episode if you haven’t seen it fun to watch I love to see the pr machine in action.

24:36.30
Kurt Francom
Okay, yeah.

24:44.10
Geoff Openshaw
And it’s a big deal here. The DCTemple it’s I’m not gonna like it’s my local temple I get it but I can’t overstate that it is like it’s a very important temple for the church and this is a very important opportunity for the church and that’s not to denigrate other temples but like this is more important than a temple in farming to New Mexico it’s great for the saints and Farmington New Mexico and wonderful for them.

24:51.69
Kurt Francom
Now.

24:57.81
Kurt Francom
Right.

25:02.80
Geoff Openshaw
But this this is the biggest thing since the rome temple dedication a couple years ago in terms of just massive pr huge involvement and yeah, everyone’s just psyched the environment right now is great I think people are feeling optimistic. We’re excited I’m hoping I’ve been putting it out a lot out of my Facebook and I hope. My non-member friends will feel a desire to go because so many people are aware of the landmark here in the area and everyone assumed they can never go to it I’m like well right now for a little window you can and you should check it out. Okay.

25:24.90
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah to me? That’s so fascinating is such a landmark, especially on that you know in that area that’s heavily populated and such diverse. You know people and whatnot that I to me that and that intrigue you think would just bring them in droves which I expect to be but um. I Love that. That’s like now you can see it like you’ve wanted to see inside for so long, come on in. Yeah, it’s cool.

25:52.29
Geoff Openshaw
And it’s been heavily and it’s been heavily publicized I frankly think they could publicize it even more because it is such a well-known building. It’s but it’s been great to see though I mean this has been one of a few times I’ve seen like you know we don’t usually put signs out on the near the street next to our meeting houses in North America

26:06.99
Kurt Francom
Right.

26:09.50
Geoff Openshaw
Like promoting stuff that’s not really our jam I mean we don’t even list our meeting times on our buildings like a lot. Yeah, we just have the church and visitors are welcome. That’s all we do. We’ve actually had like banners up on the streets even down here south of Dc a little bit to remind people this is going on I hope they continue with it I hope a lot of people go I know they’ve had a lot of demand.

26:12.16
Kurt Francom
Just say visitors are welcome. Good enough.

26:23.80
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

26:27.52
Geoff Openshaw
Um, and it’s a bit of a different open house structure than what I’ve experienced in the recent past Philadelphia is my closest comparison but they’re not doing it with like timed groups and then the guide takes you through the whole temple which is what I’ve typically seen at every temple open house instead. There’ll be.

26:30.45
Kurt Francom
Are.

26:45.14
Geoff Openshaw
People stationed throughout the temple and it’s mostly going to be you just kind of walk in at your own pace and walk room to room and just talk to the guides the docents. Whatever you want to call them as you’re doing it I.

26:52.77
Kurt Francom
Right.

26:57.10
Geoff Openshaw
I’m sure they’ve done this before but my working memory of any recent open house has always been like you go with your group then the guide walks you through the whole process until the very end I haven’t seen it done this way. Yeah.

27:01.65
Kurt Francom
Yeah I think this is a shift. Um I want to say it was maybe the Jordan River Temple or one of these temples I walked through that they did that where they sort of have these set places for rather than one guide. He’s sort of experienced multiple.

27:18.54
Geoff Openshaw
Um I imagine it takes fewer people to pull that off too I mean the number of groups you have going through at a given time probably eclipses the number of stations you would have I would guess I’d have to think about that.

27:20.66
Kurt Francom
Guides. Yeah yeah. Um, yeah and I remember there was wasn’t a lot of instruction they almost encourage you just to walk through.. There’s a few signs you read and then if you have questions ask them after or whatever. So.

27:34.74
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is also interesting to me because I feel like we use this as a good pr missionary opportunity I mean part of this is like saying to people like this room is awesome and you know why like you’ve got to find out so I’ll be curious what they do with that. There’s also we talked about the Cbs.

27:42.10
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.

27:54.56
Geoff Openshaw
Ah Sunday morning interview which is which is great. There’s also one on Youtube from Cbs Sunday morning a little bit more in depth elder bednar and his wife Susan in one of the celestial rooms of the dctemple with the the host of the show and they talk about the usual stuff they talk about he explains the mirrors the eternities all that all that kind of stuff worth watching as well. Some of the comments on Youtube were. 1 I’m shocked Cbs did not close comments. They haven’t taken a page from the Church’s Pr Playbook but it’s not bad. It’s it’s the it’s the mix you would expect I would say right? and so um, good to watch I think it’s just cool. It’s great to see like we’ve got cameras in the temple and.

28:17.32
Kurt Francom
What was it was pretty ugly. Yeah.

28:27.89
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

28:30.25
Geoff Openshaw
I know Church Church Public Affairs is working very hard to get Cbs to buy into this and and make it happen I imagine Cbs wanted some kind of exclusivity and you’re not going to see this also on the today show or on good morning America or anything like that. But that’s super cool man. Just excited to have everything coming back online for this. It’s gonna be great.

28:39.87
Kurt Francom
Um, ah yeah, yeah, and.

28:48.40
Geoff Openshaw
And of course of course when they interviewed the apostles. It only took a matter of moments before it’s not secret. It’s sacred to be uttered I’m very curious if they’ve done research on how well that plays I feel like it members the church I don’t know about you but that becomes it becomes Cliche as far as phrasing goes after a while.

28:54.38
Kurt Francom
Ah, yeah.

29:07.10
Geoff Openshaw
But we hear that because we’re inside the bubble in a sense I wonder how that resonates with audiences who have never heard the line before if it like is like okay okay, or if people just say yo all right Pr guy. Okay you I have no idea but I imagine they test that somehow.

29:15.92
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, yeah for sure all right? So we’ve we fits a ah historic note in the in the life of president Nelson he is now the oldest president of the church. In the history of the restored gospel and was it ah did he pass Hinkley or was it Mckay. Okay, yeah, nice and ah the you know the church news has been holding on this article just counting down the days.

29:37.72
Geoff Openshaw
He passed hankley I’m assuming Mckay was the second. Yeah the second oldest to live right.

29:50.91
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, they wrote this like they wrote this years ago they write this for every church for every church president and then they’re like ah oh man. Okay, so tell me more about this.

29:53.18
Kurt Francom
Publish it that’s and then they just swap out the names. Yeah yeah, that’s interesting. So well I mean that’s that’s pretty much it right? Geoff I mean I i. Like he he aged and and I think the remarkable thing is I remember president Hinkley at the end of his life where there were some instances I don’t know where I saw this but like he had or somebody had told me he was in ah one of his last meetings and they like had to carry him in you know like he was just so frail president Hinkley. Yeah.

30:11.45
Geoff Openshaw
We’ve done it.

30:23.58
Geoff Openshaw
For sorry who would you say which one I touch zone that was hiinkly right? Okay I Thanks him and he’d slow and he slowed down a lot near the end. We saw that.

30:28.99
Kurt Francom
Um, and we see him as some yeah like and it was like very quickly right? But where president Nelson like if I saw him out jogging and be like oh okay, you’re just jogging or whatever. Um, so here is the random.

30:41.49
Geoff Openshaw
He’s He’s shockingly sprightly like if he.

30:45.92
Kurt Francom
A random trivia I came across. Do you know he is not the current. He’s not the oldest living general authority if you count all emeritus general authorities. There is right elder Robert L Backman just turned one hundred years old in March and he’s still just.

30:55.43
Geoff Openshaw
As as one must.

31:05.61
Kurt Francom
He was released in 9092 as an emeritus you know he was given emeritus status in October of 9092 and the guy is still just yeah.

31:12.40
Geoff Openshaw
And they’re like thanks for the thanks! Enjoy the next 10 years of quiet life and here he is 20 years after that like guys I gave up my career for this. What am I doing for the next thirty years okay

31:21.35
Kurt Francom
He should. He should just I think if he hit like 95 you become an honorary member of the corps of the 12 and you speak at conference and we just learned to love you like we did yes.

31:30.57
Geoff Openshaw
Well, they could bring back some of those old positions like assistant to the quorum of the 12 all these ones that were 12 adjacent. They could be like or or they could be kind of like what Paul officially was because Paul was an apostle but he was not considered a member of the quorum of the 12

31:44.48
Kurt Francom
Um, right and I think there’s a few.

31:48.55
Geoff Openshaw
Let’s get into them Molden days when you got apostles who are like ordained apostles but they’re not part of the quorum. They’re just apostles. That’s what we we need to ordain this hundred year old man.

31:51.28
Kurt Francom
Right? right? That’s right? So anyways I sort of went down the wikipedia wormhole with Elder Backman and he he was called as a general authority in 1978 served in 1992

32:01.83
Geoff Openshaw
So that’s funny.

32:10.27
Kurt Francom
Actually the general president of the young men during that time as well and so shout out to him. He’s probably just loving life I hope he’s these happy and healthy and see who if he can beat out president Nelson here. But anyways and.

32:26.40
Geoff Openshaw
Kurt. Do you know who the Youngest Church president was at the time of death that’s correct I know I can tell you real quick and might have been president Leo Serious anymore i’m.

32:29.57
Kurt Francom
Ah, Joseph Smith okay good how about the second youngest elder or presently.

32:42.50
Geoff Openshaw
And I’m right now I’m leaning on Lee yes, Lee Lee was the second youngest he was 74 when he passed away if we’re working our way up. Let’s see there’s 87 George Alber Smith was 80 Joseph fsmith was 80 but no, we’re getting younger sorry Brigham young was 76 John Taylor was 78 Joseph F Smith was 80 George Albert Smith was 81 um, where are we going from here Howard W Hunter was 87 I don’t think I’m skipping anybody there and then we creep up into the 90 s after that I mean you’ve got let’s you’d see here. You got spent who oh heber ja grant was 88.

33:11.27
Kurt Francom
Um, man.

33:18.36
Geoff Openshaw
And Lorenzo Snow was 87 I apologize for that then you’ve got let’s see or then we start creeping up in the 90 s you’ve got Spencer W Kimball was 90 and it was next Hez Tap Benson was 94 which I think is the next one sorry Wilfordd Woodruff was 91 Ezra tap Benson was 94 and then these these. These years go up Joseph Fielding Smith was 95 David O Mackay was oh I skip president president Monson was ninety I apologize president Monson was ninety David Omca was 96 Gordon Mcinckley was 97 Russell M Nelson is ninety seven seven months as of right now and of sorry and Howard W Hunter was 87 so oldest, you’ve got it goes Nelson Hinkley Mckay and then fielding Smith I believe thread up there. So.

34:02.40
Kurt Francom
Yeah, that sounds right? Well you know 90 is the new seventy with these the members of the corner of the 12 It seems they’re just ah.

34:10.15
Geoff Openshaw
Also one of the interesting things was that he was the um he was the second prophet of the church to be called after the age of 90 which is kind of interesting too. So that’s kind of fun.

34:20.56
Kurt Francom
Um, oh yeah.

34:24.67
Geoff Openshaw
At the time of his call. He was ninety three years five months and six days old president Joseph Fielding Smith was 93 or six months and five days when set apart starting there. So ah, they were very old and they’re very close together in terms of the age at which they were called.

34:36.92
Kurt Francom
Nice and president oakes is past ninety now right? So if if that goes yeah.

34:40.28
Geoff Openshaw
I believe so yes, so and so is president ballard let’s see Horm of the 12 give me the list of ever bud a let’s see here. Yeah, ballard’s 93 now so there you go.

34:55.19
Kurt Francom
Yeah, so elerics was born in 32 so he’s there least? ah in in August still be 90 Yeah.

34:59.49
Geoff Openshaw
So some of them are just like they’re older than you think they are like elder Holland’s 81 elder Ukdor’s eighty one elder ukdorf is like perenniialally 72 as far as I’m concerned but he’s not de talkris office in 77 for example.

35:09.92
Kurt Francom
He stopped aging. It’s crazy.

35:17.67
Geoff Openshaw
Get to the younger ones soars is only 63 it’s good for him.

35:19.78
Kurt Francom
Good for him. Keep that up.

35:21.67
Geoff Openshaw
Keep is. He’s keep it a real speaking of elder ukdorf some really pleasant nice stories. Elder rukdorff went to his native europe and there’s a lot going on in Europe as you might be aware right now and so he went on a little european tour in Germany but he also went to Poland. It’s powerful to send anyone there. It’s especially relevant when you have someone with president elder ukdorf’s personal history going over to these parts of Europe because he’s from Germany and he was affected very directly by world war ii for example, so. He spent a few minutes of quiet remembrance in Germany I believe he even visited he visited the berlin wall monument. He visited the holocaust memorial and the pluzony memorial center which is ah the memorial center is at the site of an infamous prison where more than 2800 inmates were executed including the famous sixteen year old named Helmout Hobner was a latter day saint and the third Reich’s court ordered him to death so he spent some time there in Germany I’m assuming that was a powerful experience for him and encouraging the saints there to keep it up visited with the missionaries. He also went to Poland which is next door to Germany and. Visited with ah ukrainian refugees which is just wonderful so he was there on Sunday April tenth he was a refugee twice during world war two and he went to a devotional held in Warsaw specifically for the refugees read from scripture in the new testament about speaking about the refugees plight which was in romans eight it says ah who shall separate us from the love of Christ. Shell tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword and he answered that nothing can separate us from the love of god which is great I can’t imagine his poor people you know dealing with that. Ah, he compared of course the refugee situation to that of the disciples at the sea of Tiberius after Jesus’ ‘ death and resurrection. The apostles were frustrated. Their messiah had died. They didn’t know what to do and he said quote everything was over the worst of expectations happened I cannot imagine how that what they felt the same as I cannot imagine how you feel as refugees today. They were totally distraught on the lake tried to fish which they which they knew they were professionals but they couldn’t catch anything He’s like that’s how you feel sometimes you cannot do what you normally do and you essentially feel helpless so he encouraged them to be open to ah to adapt this must have been a very powerful experience. I mean I don’t know if I’m assume I don’t know if.

37:41.72
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

37:46.90
Geoff Openshaw
Every single person in attendance if it was a refugee only audience and that speaks a lot if it was members of the church who wanted to be there how many of refugees or members of our own church then right now from Ukraine which Ukraine has roughly 15000 members or so you know a couple stakes and a temple um and a lot of them are in Poland because other people and.

37:49.32
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, let me? Yeah yeah.

38:05.92
Geoff Openshaw
Areas occupied by Russia have been forcibly immigrated and repatriated to Russia which is a very sad situation for all of them because these are people who they’re there. They’re basically saying we can kill you and destroy your city or you can be forcibly exiled into Russia and there’s already been accounts of men being sent to Siberia. So they won’t be able to go back to Ukraine and stir up trouble in that sense so good for good for elder Rukdorf I’m glad to see him able to take this opportunity. But.

38:29.29
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s cool when you know they make an intentional effort there to you know, send us a member or 2 from the corner of the 12 and and connect with the people on a personal level and and that’s that’s great. So and on that note there good morning market. Featured an american family in Poland which helps more than 20 Ukrainian refugees and I’m teen. Yep for this one Geoff because you watched the video and I didn’t but was it the american family that were latter day saints or right.

38:52.66
Geoff Openshaw
This is a great segment. Yeah.

39:01.28
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, so so an american more of me. Um, so this is an american family that have moved it from Detroit to crack out Poland Krakowv is all in many ways the heart of Poland it’s in Southern Poland not far from Auschwitz interestingly enough, beautiful city if you ever get a chance to go there. Ah, just a gorgeous city and incredible place. They had moved there I decided to look up the guy Ot Robinson whatever his name was they moved there for work and I was like what’s he doing for work. He works for a company called nextt tier automotive having formerly been in Detroit they basically build like steering columns and systems like that that they then put a vehicle so he’s.

39:30.30
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

39:37.83
Geoff Openshaw
Working out of Poland now to do that. His family has 10 children. They don’t specify that they are latter-day saints but some other sleuthers like figured that out and they even said just kind of nonchalantly like he was talking to his bishop like very matter-of-factly I mean it’s Poland it’s a very catholic country but I don’t in Catholic Speak I don’t think lay folks are just chatting with the bishop.

39:51.52
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, right? yeah.

39:56.66
Geoff Openshaw
And and catholicism like they would in our church and the church is not large in in Poland overall I mean Poland is is both both vestiges of communism and also devoutly catholic compared to a lot of other nations. It’s a huge part of their cultural fabric and as such the church is not exactly enormous there I imagine their own family with ten kids.

40:00.40
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

40:15.39
Geoff Openshaw
Um, has increased the size of their branch by like 20% probably so a cool story though they thought about what they could do and their family that’s already very packed obviously with that many children they’ve been hosting a bunch of different refugee families from Ukraine to try to be part of this try to give them. Ah, some solace and and a place to be and and a place to have a way station. Sometimes it’s for a night sometimes it’s for a number of weeks you know and they’ve got a lot of people in the home and he’s just talked about how rewarding it is to give back and be able to do what he can one of the most touching parts. He said 1 time some of these boys that we were watching like they’re staying with us were outside playing in a park and a jet flew overhead. And they like they were triggered in that sense like the the boys just like suddenly kind of froze up and got freaked out because their experience with jets is that it’s russian jets that are going to come and bomb your neighborhood. Um, and that’s pretty powerful so it’s quite great to see whatever this one little family is able to do to provide relief to provide succor.

40:52.67
Kurt Francom
Yeah, wow.

40:59.40
Kurt Francom
Um, wow.

41:08.39
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, ah so see that they suoro. That’s right.

41:10.21
Geoff Openshaw
As we say you know what the word. What’s release society called in Spanish Kurt Socorro You can see the cognate there suckering right? think about what it means to sucker and that’s really what it’s all about providing relief for people. So it’s good. Okay.

41:20.50
Kurt Francom
Yeah, all right I’ll take another one Geoff since I but I just you know you’re talking about refugees. We couldn’t just come back to. You know we didn’t want and talk about a silly groundbreaking and then come back to refugees right? So there’s 2 groundbreakings in the news we got the the.

41:29.46
Geoff Openshaw
I I I va ah.

41:37.69
Kurt Francom
Says leaders break ground for Argentina’s fifth temple in bahia blanca and ah you know did the thing that the gold shovel thing and ah it and.

41:47.84
Geoff Openshaw
You know they just got their gold shovels out and just.

41:54.17
Kurt Francom
And then in also the ground breaking for the Grand Junction Colorado temple and my my family actually lived in grand junction before I was born so I’m pretty much a native. so yeah, so yeah those are happening and and.

42:00.77
Geoff Openshaw
So how was that.

42:11.17
Kurt Francom
Not much more to say about that Geoff yeah, yeah, be cool that they don’t just announce temples. Geoff they they break the ground of temples right? yeah.

42:11.19
Geoff Openshaw
Well, they’re gonna have the temples. It’s gonna be great. Oh I love good sense sometimes more officially than not probably will see so here’s a funny article I guess not funny I shouldn’t say funny here is an article out of. Forward magazine which is a jewish focused magazine I’m just curious about the genesis of this entire article and how it came about it’s lengthy and I’m going to tell tell you I have not read every piece of x this is like a four or five thousand word article. This is not messing around in terms of coverage. But the article is called can an all mormon cast. Pull off fiddler on the roof. We traveled to Utah to find out but I think it’s great I don’t even get all the background here about what made them say here’s the thing here’s what you need to do author Mira Fox you need to go to Provo. And hang out with the kids at byyu and see if like you know they can do this can they handle it is random. It’s a pretty interesting read though and we’ll link to it of course with our show notes of her experience being in there in Provo and like they’re very welcoming and it’s great because she’s like I’m trying to be there as like an objective observer.

43:05.58
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, this thing sounds so random I don’t know.

43:22.90
Geoff Openshaw
And just document this but inevitably I became involved because I’m hearing them because fiddler on the roof. You know it’s about Russian Jews you know and so she’s trying to explain to them some better ways to pronounce things proper custom like the way you would do the order you would do things under Judaism She wound up kind of serving as a consultant in many ways to make them to make the actors. Ah, take appropriate measures and act appropriately and incorporate appropriate Jewish customs and and things which is just Great. So I think it’s funny that she just got involved in in that sense. But it’s it’s interesting this lengthy article about sort of the relationship between Judaism and christianity and specifically like.

43:43.30
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

44:00.39
Geoff Openshaw
Latter-day saints like is it a little bit different for for them and she’s actually I think very respectful of the church’s history. Um, various components of it. She mentions. Of course the point that like in the original doctrine of the church. Its members were descendants of the two lost tribes of Israel manasse and ephraim. Today. Of course we believe in she does describe it as we we represent multiple tribes and we find out during a ceremony. We could quibble here. It’s like a patriarchal blessings not quite a ceremony but okay, that’s fine. Whatever we’ll survive. Um, so I just thought this was a fascinating read to talk she talks about the differences and similarities between jews and latter-day saints. She traveled around.

44:26.28
Kurt Francom
Sure.

44:38.62
Geoff Openshaw
Downtown provo just kind of seeing what was what talked about the the honor code but also stressed like how um how thoughtful the church members these mormon kids are pulling this off trying to do their best to represent judaism adequately 1 thing was interesting is some folks wondered if. If there were parallels between the jewish experience and like that of the early saints in Missouri but how there were others who were like we’re not I’m not comfortable going that far like what the jews have experienced in early history as well as you know during the world War Ii and the holocaust you could see. Parallels there if you wanted to but it’s not really analogous to the latter day saint experience in Missouri but I appreciate that the kids were like thoughtful enough to be like we’re not I think is like any group we try to like make everything applicable to ourselves and I think we’re guilty of that as members of the church. Um, many who say like no, it might be appropriate. Inappropriate force to do that and some wondered if it was even appropriate for them to put on the show as fiddler as like a parable for their own persecution for our persecution as latter day saints and whether we just shouldn’t be doing the show at all because it’s in bad taste. Mostly I thought that was an interesting takeaway from her so kind of cool. Good read if you want to have a long read.

45:53.72
Kurt Francom
Here your board.

45:54.25
Geoff Openshaw
Um, talks to a lot of the cast members about their own struggles even inside and outside of the church how they’re pulling all of this off she goes to the show. You know, does relatable content become like appropriation in a sense I Do think the overall premise is kind of funny like can an all the Lds cast do filter on the roof well like sure like can like any. Cast Do like that’s assuming like can a non-drug addict play a drug addict I don’t know right? but you want to make sure you’re appropriate and sensitive to people and fiddler on the roof is comparatively benign and so I think that’s why it also captivates audiences like us like they’re not up there doing. Um, they’re up there doing like hair or.

46:17.92
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

46:31.62
Geoff Openshaw
Or a chorus line or something like a course a chorus line has been adapted for high schools. But either way a chorus line sucks. Don’t at me a chorus line sucks. You all know it’s true. It’s just like hot garbage on stage. Um, anyway, don’t.

46:33.32
Kurt Francom
That’s next.

46:45.23
Kurt Francom
I’ve never seen it Geoff I guess I’ll keep it that way. Okay.

46:47.73
Geoff Openshaw
Don’t see a chorus line. A chorus line is so so fantastically disappointing. So I saw it of the pantages years ago now. The upside is it’s short enough. There’s no intermission So when it’s done in the curtain and the lights go up, You’re like this is over That’s terrific I’m not anxious to see what else happens. Um, anyway.

47:02.11
Kurt Francom
Nice.

47:05.66
Geoff Openshaw
So cool. It’s actually kind of a cool read. It’s kind. It is kind of a funny I agree with you Kurt like what drove them to decide to visit the the B Byu ca memberss and like question like can they can they do this can they do this or will they be disrespectful to the jewish community but I thought it was fine. It’s kind of fun to read I like outside of perspective.

47:08.96
Kurt Francom
Right? There’s got to be something else to talk about.

47:19.80
Kurt Francom
And randomly I remember as a I don’t know I was probably 7 or 8 my steak for some reason I don’t know how this worked out my steak put on the you know did the fiddler on the roof at a local like ah I think it was like the.

47:36.82
Geoff Openshaw
It’s called a state. Yeah.

47:36.99
Kurt Francom
Playhouse theater. Whatever they used to call that downtown Salt Lake I don’t know why and it was made of all members of my stake latter-day saints and so nobody wrote a story then but.

47:45.90
Geoff Openshaw
I I miss ah I know well that’s I miss when we do plays in our congregations I miss. Yeah like I remembered my mom. My mom was in like little women at our stakes center as a kid I remember because she had one of those outfits you know the Bell Bonnet all the whole thing.

47:49.34
Kurt Francom
Yeah, we actually use the stage as a stage now. It’s just a anxiety. Oh well. Yeah, bring back the road show right.

48:03.84
Geoff Openshaw
I don’t remember much about staying the play. It makes me a little sad. We’re trying to be so like normal like we won’t go the step to to rock for Jesus necessarily I don’t think we’re gonna go full christian rock but have like the rot you know the band for church. Oh it’s okay, fine. Whatever I don’t care about that. But I feel like we lose little bits of ourselves as we.

48:13.56
Kurt Francom
Um, right? um.

48:22.95
Geoff Openshaw
Kind of shed these things to try to simplify to try to be homesteaded church support and it’s like well I wouldn’t mind if there was this like Herculean effort is award to pull off a play that can be a really like good bonding experience for people. Yeah, it takes up time. It’s a hard thing to do. But that’s that’s working together with your church members. That’s building zion. Whatever whatever.

48:25.00
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

48:36.28
Kurt Francom
Yeah, it’s true. It’s community. That’s what we need community. So ah, you you right? Real estate Geoff Turns out the church owns a lot of it I that was my understanding for a while and but I guess.

48:42.92
Geoff Openshaw
Speaking of infrastructure. Yes.

48:49.76
Geoff Openshaw
Let’s get out.

48:56.10
Kurt Francom
That’s something. Um, there’s some conspiracy here some you know that there while the church has never been listed among the largest landowners in the us this newly compiled data places them in the top 5 in terms of acreage and likely number 1 in terms of of market value and we should.

48:59.73
Geoff Openshaw
This is like you’re reading of this is like you’re reading a but.

49:15.17
Kurt Francom
Be suspicious since they’re an extremely successful organization. No I I That was my insert there. But.

49:16.72
Geoff Openshaw
Do they say we should be suspicious. Yeah now here’s the thing I’ll be fair truth and transparency is born out of Mormon leaks which Mormon leaks is like going away I Guess they’re they can’t sustain it anymore. But so okay, so there’s ah, there’s a desire from some people there to be. Transparent with the church and sometimes I’d say at the church’s expense or with little regard for what it means for the church. It’s about transparency So the tone you’re reading it in can align with that I do think this article is totally just like fair and factual though and this this deals with nothing but hey we found out all the church’s holdings do without what you will and see what it’s worth I mean you could spin it of course and like you said.

49:39.00
Kurt Francom
Um, okay yeah.

49:55.52
Geoff Openshaw
It’s worth so much money. Why do we have so much money but I actually thought this was kind of fun because they mapped it out too and this map is slow but it shows like literally everything the church owns in the United States and shows it by what type of facility that agricultural commercial.

49:56.40
Kurt Francom
And they’re still starving people. This is a problem. No.

50:14.92
Geoff Openshaw
Mixed use multifamily dwellings you know office space retail vacant land can be 1 of them. It’s kind of fun to see that and see like what’s what and where and how and what we’re doing with our land I do love maps I gotta I wonder if these are all all individual data things that I can.

50:23.30
Kurt Francom
I never tease Geoff with a map. He’ll lean in every time.

50:33.40
Geoff Openshaw
Check out here like office. We have an office in Philadelphia I guess offices could be anything now that I’m looking at it like I see office and it’s clearly where the bishop storehouse is in Maryland for example, so that qualifies as office space I guess and I’m assuming a lot of these other things are vacant land. What’s all this vacant land in my area. But the vacant land is out. It’s right next to my house. What is happening.

50:50.84
Kurt Francom
Would be interesting to see this compared to like all the real estate that like the Catholic Church owns for instance, yeah, yeah.

50:56.00
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, hey I’d be cool with that too. So I Mostly find this just just of interest like and it’s okay if the church has a ton of valuable real estate. Okay I Think for anybody though, it’s the effort they went into this. It was pretty legis. They had to Pore over lots of publicly available records and and and. Dig in and find out because if its names a holding companies things like that and just find out really like how much of this is owned and controlled by the church doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. It just is we own we own real Estate. We do stuff with it and it might be worth a whole ton of money. Great. We can sell it someday if we need to.. It’s fine.

51:27.68
Kurt Francom
You yep cool? Well, that’s all I got Geoff.

51:31.24
Geoff Openshaw
That’s kind of fun. Ah, last thing I’ve got for you here other than of course a reminder for everyone to support us on Patreon by donating $4 a month and $40 a month if you’re feeling generous um, kind of a cool article about how to effectively plan prepare for and participate in interfaith interactions. This can seem by the headline a little like really like how do I effectively plan and prepare for interfaith interactions like what do you do utons if you run into a lutheran What do you do? but it’s not quite that it’s more about Blythe Becroft who is um, sorry it’s more about Diana Brown I’m sorry who’s an assistant director. Interreligious engagement in campus ministry at georgetown university but who’s also a member of the church and they have used this opportunity, especially with the dctemple that we were talking about earlier to organize a lot of events and things in order to focus on interreligious relations which I think is a great thing. In general and in this case, they’re actually organizing trips like sacred Africa what they’re calling it. They call it like reverse open houses or something like that or was that the reverse open house series where instead of like other people coming to our place we are sending members of the church out to other notable religious sites in the Washington Dc area to learn about their faiths. We can all do more of this people I think this is a great thing and equipping us with the tools on how to interact with others outside of our faith is a very good thing I believe sometimes as latter day saints. We are inherently insular given our history and we don’t always need to be and it’s great to look outward and recognize that just developing good relationships with. Those in our community does not necessarily mean we’re out to baptize them. It could just mean it’s a good thing to do and it can also expand our view by understanding others and the religious traditions that they believe in and I think that’s great. So this is actually kind of a cool article talking about the the things that Sister Brown has undertaken in order to make all of this possible. Which is great I think it’s awesome. We should all be doing this everywhere. We should be doing this in Utah we this should be a calling in. Everyone’s award. Yes I mean there’s that movie baptist at our barbecue which kind of covers this as well. But i.

53:22.60
Kurt Francom
Um, right I get behind that I think we’re it’s about time for a sequel. Don’t you think baptist that our barbecue or who.

53:35.88
Geoff Openshaw
Um, what’s what? what’s alliterative. What’s another let’s Baptist our barbecue I think catholics at our confirmation. Um.

53:42.50
Kurt Francom
Ah.

53:49.79
Kurt Francom
Muslims that are meet and greet.

53:51.41
Geoff Openshaw
Wickens at our wake Lutherans at Linger longer. Oh we could do this all day we could do this all day methodists at our.

53:54.85
Kurt Francom
Ah, oh.

54:06.70
Geoff Openshaw
I’m not doing anything with m do we at our did you do methodists what you said muslims that’s fair, what’s start. Okay, well we could. We could think about this all day. It could be a good time. Give me your tips folks send me an email contact to this week at http://mormons.com with your take on what should be the sequel to baptists at our barbecue.

54:06.30
Kurt Francom
Meeting Great I Just did that? Yeah yeah. Know husband it. That’s right.

54:23.39
Geoff Openshaw
And what it should evolve should it have the original cast should it be a soft reboot a sequel a prequel an adjacent kind of thing kind of like that other ghostbusters movie. You tell me who knows what it’ll be but until then please go to this week at http://mormons.com please subscribe to the show wherever you get podcasts and leave us a review if you’re feeling like a giving thoughtful helpful, interreligious type of person. We’d appreciate it. And please go to http://leadingssaints.org where you can see what Kurt’s up to and subscribe to his podcast so you can be ah, a better more effective leader which we cannot iterate enough as a private private undertaking by Kurt and he’s just doing great things doing great things. Not neither of us represent the church just want to be clear on that.

54:45.39
Kurt Francom
Um, do it.

54:54.30
Kurt Francom
That’s right. Thanks Geoff right? Yeah, thanks for having me back.

55:00.92
Geoff Openshaw
But’s good to see you Kurt man. Thanks for being here and just want to give a quick quick nod to Richitchie Steman Ritchie the show is is under an hour this one’s for you. Thank you Richie I know you’ll be very happy about this and thank you all for listening. Glad to have you all here. We’ll talk to you next week until then for a Kurt I’m Geoff this week of mormons is off the case see you later butbye.

 

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