EP 581 – Do Not Trifle with Sariah Wilson

TWiM_EP581_Sariah_Wilson_Is_Hardcore
What's up with McMansions around temples? Lazy writing in "Under the Banner of Heaven." Pride at BYU graduation. Sariah forgets her own book!

It’s May! And guess who’s back after a year away? Sariah Wilson joins us to dissect the news of the week. She’s got new books out and coming out, so make sure to visit sariahwilson.com for all things not-at-all-racy romantic comedy. Plus, we get into a fun discussion on the ubiquity of McMansions surrounding new temples in Utah.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff Openshaw
Hey everybody? how’s it going welcome to this week of mormons we’re so thankful you took the time to join us this week I’m Geoff Openshaw yes she’s back everybody so right, it’s been a little while since we’ve had you on I think we’ve missed you I’m sorry it’s been so long how you been.

00:05.63
Sariah Wilson
And I am Soria Wilson

00:16.70
Sariah Wilson
I’ve been good I’m really excited to be back I Love I Love being on this show. It’s a lot of fun.

00:20.15
Geoff Openshaw
I’m trying to think when we when did we actually last have you on was it was is it been like a full year since we did the seat the seat filler and that’s kind of when we last chatted how geez I’m sorry that’s on me I I assume you’ve at least published 1 or 2 more books in that time. That’s.

00:24.36
Sariah Wilson
It’s been like a year yeah Yeah it’s okay I have yeah I have one come out and yeah I think out one. Yeah.

00:38.47
Geoff Openshaw
And what’s in the works right? now you got another one that’s coming out soon or one that you work at you’re writing.

00:41.58
Sariah Wilson
Not coming out soon I just finished up one I’m in the editing phases. It’s called chemistry of Love I’m really excited about this one It just you kind of have It is’s about a cosmetic chemist and they’re makeup scientists essentially and I was very excited about it and I’m like what a cool job.

00:47.67
Geoff Openshaw
What is it about is it about chemists.

00:54.25
Geoff Openshaw
I Love this.

01:01.33
Sariah Wilson
And I went looking I’m like I need to learn more about this right? Got the internet for it but which is real basic and so I’m like all right what if b wiu has a program and I can go talk to someone and I looked in like be you cosmetic chemist and it led me to a woman named Chrissy Gerard who just did the byu alum who has her own cosmetic chemistry business. Um, run out of her home and I contact her I’m like people must think I’m so weird I’m like I’m an author would you mind talking to me and she’s like I would love to so it was fascinating and the story she had to tell several of the stories made their way into the book because it’s so funny. Um, she was just so intelligent but it was really difficult like okay.

01:32.42
Geoff Openshaw
Ah.

01:39.76
Sariah Wilson
How do I take that information and distill it and make it believable but yet entertaining to the average reader. You know so it was It was a big challenge So in this one. The cosmetic chemist is in love with her boss and her company is a non-fraternization rule so in a a grand gesture. She ah.

01:54.90
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, man those are the worst.

01:59.47
Sariah Wilson
Quits her job and goes to the company party that night to to tell him of her love and he announces his engagement and she’s heartbroken and goes into the bathroom to be sad and this man comes in because she’s in the men’s bathroom and starts talking to her come to find out this is the hero he wants to break this.

02:04.78
Geoff Openshaw
Ah.

02:18.86
Sariah Wilson
Engagement up and enlists her to help him So that’s that’s the story and ah, yes, no because with the fiance he’s worried that she’s after his business and so he’s got some monetary motivation there to want to protect that and yeah.

02:22.26
Geoff Openshaw
He wants to break the engagement up because he’s in love with the the female fiancee or what oh ah, no now I don’t want any any.

02:38.37
Sariah Wilson
So one.

02:39.58
Geoff Openshaw
No spoilers of course am I To assume though this scheming individual is also successful and hunky and worthy and worthy of love. Perhaps interesting. Yeah.

02:43.51
Sariah Wilson
He is he is. You’d be surprised on how that works. Yeah I mean someone did a spoiler from I’ve got a book coming out and and a couple months actually I forgot about that one I got a book coming out in a couple of months um and and that when someone did a passage like I hope it’s not a spoiler I have like a private reader group and she posts that and it was just about hero being cute I’m like oh no spoiler the heroes hot you know and it made everybody laugh but you know yeah, that’s a no case spoiler to share.

03:10.50
Geoff Openshaw
That’s actually a pretty good. Um I know you love Hallmark stuff that’s ah that would be that would be a good plot for a hallmark film. Honestly I mean I think that’d be a nice turn of I don’t think I’ve ever seen a hallmark film where the plot is someone’s in love with someone else and they get engaged in the beginning and it’s heartbreak I don’t know if I’ve seen one like.

03:25.52
Sariah Wilson
Today.

03:27.31
Geoff Openshaw
It’s always you know the woman the business woman in the big city finding true. Love you know with her lumberjack flame from high school or something like that. But I remember you mentioned that when we first had you on right? which cracks me.

03:31.71
Sariah Wilson
Well yeah I was too racy for hallwork. So I’m like what my editor when I tell her that kind of stuff you actually mentioned you’re like wow the seat filler’s a lot raced here in the last one and I told my editor that and she literally laughed for like 2 minutes straight

03:47.00
Geoff Openshaw
Well I haven’t read.

03:49.23
Sariah Wilson
Knows he needs to read some of the books that I edit because I am so far on the spectrum of steaminess. You know that I’m I’m very minimal you know I hardly anything. But yeah I have my own lines. Yeah.

03:56.13
Geoff Openshaw
So well and I know and you have and you have your very you have your specific standards like you talked about the first time you’re on the show you have lines you won’t you won’t cross I’m not saying the suit filler was steamy I’m saying it was steamier than the other one. So that’s all so.

04:07.91
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, but yeah, she my editor thought that was cute because she’s like oh ah, he I need to send him some books I’m like no, you don’t he doesn’t want to read them. Ah yes.

04:15.36
Geoff Openshaw
If my wife is gonna get very concerned if with the growing pile of all my my ah my suzanne steel Novels will be piling up you next to my nights stand. A it be good. Um, awesome, Well well keep on out for that I’m excited for that book. It’s and what good times man good times now everything else great out there and.

04:23.19
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

04:35.20
Geoff Openshaw
And good old Utah your temple’s probably getting close to Don at this point right in Saratoga springs that are yeah.

04:39.29
Sariah Wilson
It’s getting close. Yeah, they keep talking about it looks fantastic. It’s just this massive like monolith it’s up the street from my kids Junior high school that they go to and you know so I see it all the time and you can’t not see it. It’s just built I mean it’s built high up. It’s just there when you’re driving around.

04:56.60
Geoff Openshaw
No.

04:56.82
Sariah Wilson
You can’t miss it so I mean in the houses they’re putting in next to it are ridiculous like oh my gosh because there’s a street leading up to the temple those houses I mean million dollar homes not even a question you know.

05:02.40
Geoff Openshaw
So how do you.

05:07.43
Geoff Openshaw
Well, but nowadays in Utah that could very well mean just a simple 3 bedroom bungalow somewhere right? ah.

05:12.90
Sariah Wilson
Right? I mean it could be like 2 3000000 at this point you know, but I mean they’re very very very nice homes. They’re going up on that street up to the temple and I’m sure there’s probably some kind of architectural standard for what’s being allowed. But yeah and they’re not even I mean they have a good view of the temple but you know in my house.

05:31.62
Geoff Openshaw
Um, well I mean but I want to remind you soiaa that the devil controls the waters. So I mean as we learn as Missionaries So I don’t know if that is the better view or not. You got to really think about that. How.

05:31.84
Sariah Wilson
I See the lake in the mountains I have a gorgeous view and they don’t see that from where they are So I’m like that’s a lot of money to spend not get the view which is the whole point is Secretarygo springs.

05:43.60
Sariah Wilson
That is true. Yeah.

05:50.87
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, so you see this a lot somewhere like Utah temples go up all around the world. But I really feel like especially in Utah the Churchill build large temples and often there are higher end housing developments around it and I know just mean like ah like a cool mixed use type thing like maybe what they were trying to do in the tulla temple before they canceled all that and moved it elsewhere. Um, like draper comes to mind. You know it’s built kind of in a very a very Tony neighborhood and obviously we like the temples to be in nice areas but like how do you feel about that from just ah I don’t know a community a development standpoint that.

06:10.58
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

06:21.71
Geoff Openshaw
You have this very large temples and then they surround them on purpose with very upscale homes. Yeah, that’s why I’m That’s why I’m asking you.

06:24.93
Sariah Wilson
I find it interesting and which is why I probably mentioned it in the first place because you know sirtogas springs can be nice. It kind of runs the gamut you know, um, closer to the lake. The houses are a lot nicer and very much mansions and I and I know that because when we moved out here. It was during the recession. Had these homes that were so expensive that you know they had knocked them down so much we could afford them so I got to go look at a lot of mansions. You know before we bought our home so there’s a lot there are there are those upscale homes. Um, so it’s not at a place. It’s not like wow everything else is not as nice as this and this is suddenly really nice. It does exist but there are regular.

06:48.97
Geoff Openshaw
Well.

07:03.35
Sariah Wilson
More 3 hree-b bedroomroom two bathroom track homes as well. So we kind of have ah a big variation I feel like and like my neighborhood I think is probably a little bit nicer but this one like jaw kind of dropping as you drive past you know the houses are that kind of magnificent and.

07:15.43
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, so.

07:20.00
Sariah Wilson
Have the whole center divider like in my neighborhood. The center dividers are full of rocks you know and desert plants and this one It’s just all greenery and flowers and trees and I’m like this is so interesting like you expect that at the temple but just the street leading up to it is is that way as well. Which I find interesting. So.

07:35.66
Geoff Openshaw
Well and I hear I’ve read before I don’t know if this is always the case but that the church often partners with developers. So the developers will run the utilities for the temple essentially free of charge when they do these kinds of projects which is interesting to me. But I also wonder how much sway they have in terms of responsible.

07:45.53
Sariah Wilson
Now.

07:54.24
Geoff Openshaw
Community development that kind of thing because like do so like you might have foliage and shrubbery that is fitting of the climate that you’re in as opposed to you know it’s like people like people a people in Arizona have some similar gravel and plants and that are appropriate for the area not just overwatering and overusing in the desert I don’t know.

07:54.25
Sariah Wilson
I I.

08:09.84
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, and I it’s an interesting concept because I know that there’s got to be some level of that because the church owns so much land out here. You know that there that they sell to developers like this is ours for a church and this is ours for you know saving the.

08:18.77
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

08:27.49
Sariah Wilson
But things for themselves so they can build churches in the future and you know we’re in an area like my brother’s up in Salt Lake and you know we go to his ward for like a baby blessing and they can barely fill the chapel you know and it’s a bunch of mostly older people. There’s not very many families but you’re out here and it’s like. All the way to the stage every time just in our little award. There’s 300 primary kids and that and that was after we split after we split that was the number so you know out in this area out more in Utah County you are getting the really big families and the churches are needed. You know that.

08:48.38
Geoff Openshaw
Wow! what.

09:03.16
Sariah Wilson
We are actually in a building that we’re not supposed to be in anymore. They actually shifted our entire stake and we are going now to another stakes building because there is no room for us in the building that should be our stake. So yeah.

09:10.40
Geoff Openshaw
Wow and that is one of those things like a lot of times on this show I’ve I’ve lovingly mocked will say the fact that like we’ll built we out so many new temples all the time and like every temple house in Utah is at least seventy Thousand Square feet they’re all big. The only not huge one is the one going up in ephraim but that was kind of like that. Compromise temple so they didn’t you know gut them anti-temp. But then you forget like in many ways it is actually warranted like like you have very big wards but bursting at the seams. You can’t even fit in all your meeting houses and so there are members to serve in this case, we’ve been trying for years just at my stake to get another.

09:41.62
Sariah Wilson
Yep yep.

09:48.89
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, meeting house built I’ve I’ve heard this for many people at least in North America that the church typically and once again I don’t know if Utah functions differently because Utah kind of does things differently sometimes. But if your state your stake has to have at least 4 units meeting in every building. For then the facilities management people to say and you know the the church architect to be like okay, we’re going to give you another another meeting house and your stake we’ve been trying to do that in my stakeak for years because we’re packed to the gills in terms of the number of units we have but at the same time I don’t have 300 kids in primary. Not at all and Dc’s got good numbers of members but it is not like that by any stretch of the imagination. So yeah.

10:21.88
Sariah Wilson
Yep. If my ward has split. We lived. Lived here for ten almost eleven years my ward has split every year since we moved here. Yep you did you did you missed it.

10:33.23
Geoff Openshaw
That is bonkers I missed the window I missed the window to move there soiaa now. It’s too late now I’m gonna get stuck moving to Eagle Mountain my gosh is it though.

10:45.51
Sariah Wilson
Ah, Eagle Mountain is nice.

10:50.15
Geoff Openshaw
Is it really or or heaven forbid Heroman I mean people. Ah I’ve driven through I went through there once so copper eventually someday coppertin is going to come back from its original days as a mining town and become something huge I don’t know.

10:51.94
Sariah Wilson
I I’ve durant through Herman there’s nice places in hairman too. So yes.

11:06.70
Geoff Openshaw
Utah’s fun times I’m looking at this map here of Sarah but since we’ve been talking yes, the home’s there. They’re building new construction that starts at $940000 starts so and what is this the Kevin have you ever been to the Kevan Ros bakery what is going on here. What is this all about it. Looks like it is at somebody’s house.

11:12.88
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:20.43
Sariah Wilson
I Think that’s at somebody’s house. You have a lot of home businesses. Yeah.

11:25.63
Geoff Openshaw
Cavin Ruse for people don’t know this is just ukraine stuff again. That’s the ancient Slavic Kingdom that predated modern day Ukraine and Russia and Belarus and all that but it was it was based out of what is today present day keep so that’s it’s on Google maps and it jumped out of me and I’m curious what they’re doing. Ah anyway. Well, this was a fun trip down Utah lots of fun stuff happening in the world of latter-day saint news since we were talking about temples I might as well talk a little bit about some of the dc temple updates which are going to happen all the time for everyone and all the way until August folks. Um, sorry this is what’s happening now for a very long time and the church is not shy about about covering it at all. Um, because it’s the dc temple so I do love the headlines that doesre news lately. They’ve gotten in kind of ah a slightly click baby cadence this one’s not as bad, but there’s some that are a lot worse.

12:14.32
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

12:18.74
Geoff Openshaw
But this one says why? a former senator is giving tours of the washington d c temple as if there’s like intrigue in that statement. Well I don’t know why is a former Us senator daring to give tours of the Washington Dc temple what does that even mean, um. They’re talking about elder Gordon Smith elder Gordon Smith used to be a senator in the senate us senate from Oregon kind of known as a moderate republican I’d say for most of his career. He currently lives somewhere in Northern Virginia I think he lives in like Vienna area or around there but he’s in area 70 as well. Right now. So I know this because he presided over our state conference last year or two years ago and we were all on Zoom and it was very exciting. Very interesting guy. There. We had some cool stuff to say so that’s 1 thing. He’s an area 70 so he probably does this but this article is actually kind of cool because it goes well beyond this and you realize the story of his father who was the. President of the washington d c stake at the time and was one of the key figures in trying to get a temple on the East Coast there was no temple east of the rocky mountains at that point there was no temple like think even east of Utah at that point or yeah, just east of the Rockies right. Um, because you had it mon yeah at what mesa and then the temples in Utah that was there was no Denver there was no anything else at that point and so um, it actually goes a little bit more into kind of the cool story which they’ve shared a little bit before on desert news. Ah some of the the miracles that transpired in order to build a temple in Washington dc hear crazy stories like how his dad deliberately wanted to kind of obfuscate who was trying to buy the land in the area they thought if they knew it was a church they changed the price but it actually turned out to be really positive things. We bought it from from a jewish organization and everybody was all on board with one another very cool stuff. So it’s meaningful to him. Ah, Gordon Smith because his father was a stake president his father helped build the temple it says he even went to the land that would be on the the temple property and prayed there about going on a mission when he was younger and so it’s really a much more inspiring story I think even than what the headline might suggest to learn about. How very real. It is to him to be able to take part in this open house Today. He remembers when the temple was built as a young man of course and now the temple’s doors are open. You know for the first time in almost fifty years to the general public so that was a cool story I just enjoyed reading it. You should read it too.

14:40.27
Sariah Wilson
I Should that sounds really cool I haven’t read it I’m sorry.

14:41.98
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I should notice. It’s okay, another quick update here because we got an you know more temples level I might maybe I’ll pepper these in so it gets interesting how the Washington Dc temple open house is creating neighbors and friends. Ah, this is already a little bit older here. It’s from the first week of the open house concluding the big, the big header image. They use here of course is none other than wolf blitzer people wolf blitzer from Cnn toured the temple and if you’ve ever watched Cnn you know that everything wolf blitzer says is breaking news. So I’m hoping he went to the temple. And said breaking news I’m here at the temple right now right now. Let’s go to our panel but they’ve had a lot of vips for the first two weeks. So that’s really the gist of it. This is an article that just talks about all the nice people they’ve met editors like the editor in chief of the Atlantic Great Magazine people should read it. Good times.

15:23.80
Sariah Wilson
Ah, yeah, what pages.

15:36.81
Geoff Openshaw
All kinds of interesting people leaders from the and ndoacp ah did more on the lazy I’m looking at some of these here looking at some of the pictures a lot of people from the Atlantic um, ah former congressman Paul Ryan went there some great pull quotes from Paul Ryan who talked about how inspiring it was to go. And the template was the former speaker of the house. The church loves this kind of stuff and I haven’t seen pictures yet I don’t know if they’ll be published. But since I live out here. Um people who have been volunteering there over the past few weeks were telling me like oh yeah, Mitt Romney was there the other day and which is not surprising but the the main commentary was that Mitt Romney’s ah.

16:08.88
Sariah Wilson
So yeah.

16:14.63
Geoff Openshaw
Senatorial entourage like his staffers. They said it was far larger than any other groups that have come through from politicos and people of interest in Dc which I think is mostly not surprising just because I assume a lot of his staff members of the church. That’s often what happens and especially for someone like of of Mitt Romney’s prominence. So apparently he.

16:27.75
Sariah Wilson
Um, yeah.

16:34.31
Geoff Openshaw
Brought quite the posse with him to attend the temple so good times of the temple folks good times in DC I am not going for another week and a half I think but we’re just gonna be with like you know the plebeians regular old folk right? um.

16:47.20
Sariah Wilson
With with the politicians coming. Do you think it’s I mean obviously politicians everything is you know self a grandizement I guess trying to you know appeal to those voters I’m wondering. What’s the connect I mean obviously it’s in Washington d c but what’s the what’s the thing that makes them come. You know is it right? right? But why is it to to a big get for the church.

17:06.69
Geoff Openshaw
I think it’s more the church reaching out to them I don’t think it’s a huge get for the politicians. Really I don’t think because it’s prominent people at want at a prominent building. That’s you know we. Who are we as as a church we care a lot about being accepted by the by the overall society and of course it’s a big deal if you can get really important people to come and tour the temple. It’s a good photo op. It’s just you know it’s cool that you see some church leaders shaking hands with Paul Ryan that looks really cool. What is interesting to me though is the different people they’ve had.

17:30.45
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

17:40.67
Geoff Openshaw
Greeting others like in the very beginning of this. You had some of the apostles there to kick it off and some have come in and out but you would almost think for some of the the major politicos who’d be coming through like they’d be like all right all right. Mitt Romney’s here get other christoperson over there. You know like like don’t don’t don’t just send over the area 70

17:55.21
Sariah Wilson
Ah, where’s Holland.

18:00.24
Geoff Openshaw
And for all I know they might have done that there might be more to report on after the the past week but I don’t know if there’s a huge gain for them because I I doubt most of these pro Politicos Whether they’re currently an office or former are sent tweeting much about it I think it’s just our quest for Legitimacy and prominence in the American cultural experience.

18:17.62
Sariah Wilson
Um, yeah.

18:18.91
Geoff Openshaw
Right? I Think that’s what it’s all about. So good times I don’t know if I have any more about the DCTemple Maybe who knows maybe it’ll come up but I’m good Now. So I can take a break and you can talk about things that you care about.

18:27.67
Sariah Wilson
Okay, and I could take a break. Oh so everyone needs to be pay attention to this if they haven’t already my mom and I talked about this like extensively but the the fx mini series under the banner of heaven which. I only got interested in because I love Andrew Garfield you know who’s playing the main character in that and I’m like oh they’re like it’s about the church and I’m like wait what you know because you don’t realize that’s what it’s about um and not being I guess of a certain age I didn’t know this story I didn’t know what it was about and went and.

18:47.96
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

19:01.83
Sariah Wilson
Like for a day just was reading about it and telling my husband. He’s like I don’t want to hear anymore about the murder you know like I like I like murder stuff but um, don’t like I that sounds really bad I don’t like murder stuff I Just I find it fascinating because fundamentalism extremism fascinates me because I can see how easy it is.

19:15.66
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

19:21.22
Sariah Wilson
Have that happen. Um, and we think we’re immune we think you know that’s why I get on here and I get really mad about the book of mormon in Ohio that’s some extremism That’s some fundamentalism that’s happening in that movement and it scares me and I can see it happening. So yeah, obviously this is this is different but the fact that they’re choosing not only to tell the story which. Fine. But I guess it’s really focused on Joseph Smith and early church history and I find it so fascinating because I was i’ reading what the you know the the book Writer Joe was his name krakower and then Dustin Lance Black who’s the screenwriter who was raised lds. Left the church and they keep using these phrases and saying these things and all the articles I’m reading and it was like 1 of them was just put it on a shelf if you’re having doubts about the church you put it on a shelf and I thought never in my life have I heard that phrase I called my mom I’m like have you ever heard this phrase. She’s like you know I’m in my sixty s I’ve lived in multiple states I have never heard anybody have you heard anybody in the church ever use that phrase put it on a shelf. Never yeah, well because will they keep they keep repeating it that keeps being this thing and this is what they believe you know and he’s saying Dustline’s black says the church didn’t acknowledge that Joseph Smith

20:19.80
Geoff Openshaw
Um, I mean I’ve heard it like in my in my life but it’s funny. You’re the first person you’re not the first person to mention this verbiage too. How it seems kind of anachronistic in a way. Yeah.

20:37.44
Sariah Wilson
Was polygamous until 2013 I’m like well that’s some bull crap because I was at bu it took a class specifically on Joseph Smith and we talked about it. Extensively. So no, that’s not some new thing. The church was owning I I thought the I don’t know it’s very hard for me people get things so wrong I thought I have no desire to watch this I I mean there are scenes that are shot. Meant to be temple ceremonies and um I thought we would be really outraged with another faith if if their sacred things were being. You know I don’t know I just find it very hard that you know not that it’s secret, but it’s just that you’re taking things that are so special to us and you’re.

20:58.20
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

21:08.45
Geoff Openshaw
At.

21:15.37
Sariah Wilson
Mocking them and turning them into entertainment I mean I have no I am not watching this show I do not have any plans to do so.

21:24.25
Geoff Openshaw
I’m debating it? Um I’m debating it. We’ll see I mean I mean the the crack hour book is is quite famous came out in 2003 right? and it came kind of on the heels of a very lengthy period where we had done a lot of. Pr is a church where president hink this is this is all in the wake of president Hinkle you know doing 60 minute interviews all this stuff that we were loving around the late 90 s early two thousand s when president Hinkley was working very hard to bring us more mainstream then crack hour comes out with this book and. You know for better or worse. It was a bestseller it put the church under a different kind of microscope and the church was so concerned about it that it issued press releases to question the the veracity and about some of his claims and to basically like say like no, no, no, this isn’t they don. Fact checking a lot of what he wrote normally the church would ignore things like that but they went out of their way to it’s not like the church did the same thing for the book of mormon musical we. We smartly instead put out took out ads in the play bill but we weren’t issuing retractions or anything or just saying like oh well let’s correct the record a little bit here people about what’s what.

22:20.23
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

22:36.11
Geoff Openshaw
We kind of just stay out of it but we we’ve got actively involved during the crack hour era. So I’m curious about this. Um, how it’ll be I I don’t know I’m torn on whether I want to watch it or not I was talking to an associate who said I owed it to our listeners to watch it. Um, ah yeah, the whole ah put a pin in it thing. It’s it’s curious to me I don’t I’m not big on like yeah, making a mockery of our temple orinances or anything like that either I do try to take a step back from that and think about how much other media I’ve consumed in my life that might have gone for some kind of juxtaposition of like showing some sort of. I can’t think of anything specifically but might show some sort of oh here. The godfather is a beautiful example that comes to mind you have the baptism scene and the godfather I think that’s part 2 right? when they’re baptizing his child and then it keeps cutting to footage of having other people murdered at the same time under his order and the whole point is to talk about hypocrisy of. The main character what he’s doing. He’s in this holy place while at the same time. He’s ordered a hit on a bunch of his adversaries. Um I think it’s they’re cut. They’re kind of going for all of that same stuff and under the banner of heaven or in many other things. I don’t find it offensive to watch a depiction of catholicism in such a way and I don’t know how my catholic friends felt about that you know I think it’s a little bit different for us because we’re a comparatively newer faith despite our belief that it is the restored church but that our our modern history only dates back to 1820 right.

24:01.35
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

24:03.40
Geoff Openshaw
Um, as opposed to being deep in the lore of the you know the pre- medieval era even you know so you know, um anyway, that’s kind of my way of saying I’m not quite sure where I’m going to stand on it. 1 thing that cracks me up is the poster for it shows a meeting house and even that meeting house I’m like I don’t think that design showed up until like 2004

24:08.47
Sariah Wilson
I mean I I’m.

24:19.26
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, well and how insistent the filmmakers are that they’re a hundred percent right that they did their work. You know Dustin lands black is out there saying I put my shoulder to the wheel I’ve done the work and I’m like even if you talk to 5 people you know like.

24:21.80
Geoff Openshaw
For a meeting house but okay, good.

24:37.60
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, no, and.

24:37.90
Sariah Wilson
That’s not the Mormon Church right like that’s just not. That’s not the whole thing and it’s just it’s it’s very odd to me and I’m I’m realizing how much like I mean I end up yelling at somebody in Gospel doctrine yesterday. Oh my gosh. Yeah yeah, of course no i.

24:47.44
Geoff Openshaw
Really oh good tell us more tell us more.

24:55.88
Sariah Wilson
Should be more patient and kind but we were talking about moses right? and it’s something that I’ve studied pretty intently moses fascinates me as a leader and a person and so I’ve I’ve read a lot about him and we’re talking about some kind of speculation. How long was he on you know Mount Sinai and of course we don’t know. Because the hebrew answer in the bible is forty days and 40 nights so having studied hebrew as well and I’m by no means an expert but having studied it you know and learning about it for 1 thing. The hebrew language is so symbolic and so beautiful and everything is multiple levels. They don’t have like a straightforward speech like we do right? like it’s it’s all meant to mean something else. So when they say forty days and 40 nights it is something that shows up 24 times in the bible. It means a long time. It’s like us saying that took forever I didn’t actually take forever. We’re just indicating to our reader that it was a long time. Number 40 in hebrew is sacred it means perfection after trials and tribulations it means something has been completed and perfected so when they’re using that number forty. They don’t actually mean 40 I mean you can take the story of Noah’s ark and it’s forty days and 40 nights right in the same chapter tells you well actually it was eleven months

26:10.63
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

26:11.90
Sariah Wilson
You know the forty days and 40 nights is something that when it uses it with Jesus Christ um it was meant as a it was was Matthew trying to show his his jewish readers that he was the messiah by using you know Hebrew phrasing that they would have recognized and would have had meaning to them. It was deliberate. You know it wasn’t actually forty days it was to say something to a jewish audience. So I’m sharing this in class and this guy we hate. Do you have one of the people in your ward who every Sunday talks like 5 or 6 times just keeps raising his hand and just sometimes the most inane stuff talking to hear themselves talk which. Just drives me crazy in the first place but you know he’s saying it was literally forty days I’m like it was not you know and he because you don’t know that I’m like I do actually and here’s why I know that and I’ve studied this. He’s like well I’ve read the old testament twice and I know it means literally I’m like it doesn’t and he goes well that’s your opinion or whatever I’m like It’s a fact he goes. It’s literal I’m like it’s a metaphor and then my husband put his hand on my leg and I stopped but I’m usually much more tolerant but some of those things it just thing after thing after thing after thing that was all incorrect I’m like this is why god has not called me to be the gospel doctrine teacher right now because I have very little patience for this i. You know that there’s so many good perspectives that are offered and I love hearing what other people think but when it’s something like that where I know what I’m talking about because I’ve studied it and you know people stay in church one not a scholar well not to toot my own horn. But when it comes to ancient scripture I kind of am a scholar you know I spend a lot of time studying it. So. Not that I couldn’t be wrong. I will fully admit that I could be wrong about that. But that is such a basic concept when it comes to bible reading that I’m like how can you be arguing this with me I Google it there are going to be 40 entries about forty days and 40 nights you know. So yeah I yield I didn’t mean to. It happened though.

28:05.36
Geoff Openshaw
That’s fascinating. Let let me turn it on this is a bit of a digression but let me turn it on its head a little bit. What do you say in more of a ah maybe a church history context. What about people who study especially history of the church and become feel like disaffected from the church and this is not The only reason people leave the church of course.

28:19.20
Sariah Wilson
Yeah I I find it fascinating.

28:22.47
Geoff Openshaw
But what about those who say that say I’ve studied it out I have taken the time to study this out and now because of this I take major issue with where I am with the church if I’m here at all. What do you say to them first.

28:28.65
Sariah Wilson
Which I find it very fascinating because I’m like how do you and I study the same thing and come to completely different conclusions I’ve never felt like things are being hidden for me or I’ve never discovered something that I’m like oh the church didn’t tell me that. And I I guess for me, maybe it’s just a matter of perspective and people again. Maybe it’s because you never learned it in the first place and so when you do find out. It’s this shocking thing I’m like yeah Joseph Smith married a bunch of women and my husband’s too of this family members are not members of the churchnarly they not members but they’re very kind of anti and attacking. Every chance they get and they were talking about Joseph Smith and his wives specifically and you know that there were women who were marrying themselves to him after he died. Um, and I said we forget that the saints were in their infancy right? I mean this was the prototype of the church that they were starting and. Said that they didn’t understand how stuff worked like they used to baptize each other every week you know until the lord had to come and say don’t do that baptism is once you know, but they were literally baptizing themselves every week. You know, get rid of your sins I’m like that’s great. We should go back to that. But um.

29:35.68
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

29:44.79
Geoff Openshaw
It’s kind of awesome right.

29:44.91
Sariah Wilson
They were so like in their infancy and I think with trying to understand plural marriage and you know how would this work and I’m like yeah if I’m one hang out in Joseph Smith time it can’t be a bad thing to be married to Joseph Smith like calling election made sure right there right? I don’t know I think because I understand and this may be what they talk about with. Difference between catholics and mormons where you know the catholics say their their pope is infallible and no one believes it and we say the prophet is fallible and no one believes it. You know that there’s just this I again from I think from being a writer that the people in the scriptures are very real people to me. They are not characters. They are not flat figures. They’re not perfect beings like I think Nephi is kind of whiny you know to be honest, um I just I see them as these real people and they have their traits and their flaws and they tell you like Nephi will tell you over and over again I have messed up. Dramatically bad like it’s I have really sinned and we don’t believe that right like Nephi’s just perfect and you need to be just like him and so I look at Joseph and I think such a flawed but amazing man and doing the best that he could with what he had. And I I honestly don’t get it I don’t know what it is about churchchester that makes people freak out I’m like these are a bunch of people who are kind of wandering around the dark trying to figure it out and getting lineupon line preset on precept you know that 1 thing at a time and as they learned a new thing they would adjust and move on right? So I don’t know i. I don’t know that people actually study things I mean it’s like with covid the people who are experts because they follow someone on Twitter who says covid is bad. You know I’ve studied it out. No, you haven’t you listen to krower or Ben Shapiro and you think that’s studying. So I think it depends on where you’re getting your information because. So many antis present the history that they color it. You know it’s half truths and lies and it’s colored in a way that makes it look so terrible and bad but that’s not actually what happened and they think that’s the truth and they’ve studied it and they’re scholars and I have ah a writing friend whos her and her family left the church. You know, very active Lds family large she extended Lds family. And she said it was church history related and she won’t discuss it. But you know I want to ask her why what? What exactly did you learn that you didn’t know before like what what is there? not know I I don’t know if it’s being a history major going to be well you I literally typed up. Um I transcribed the journals of. Pioneer companies including Brigham Young’s pioneer company and that was my job was to transcribe it from there were big thick typewritten manuals and I would transcribe them because you know saving on computers as newfangled computers that was my job so I was surrounded by the professors not department were all church. History experts.

32:31.33
Sariah Wilson
And would talk about it and had the most amazing books about it. So I don’t know I feel like I really learned about it. You know the day and age before the internet and so it’s never affected me that way and I’m not sure why it does for other people. But this is why you have to study you know that I I feel like we have such a and I probably talk about it a lot in church. Everybody’s like well I’m just not a scholar I’m like well that’s stupid because you should be. You know you have more information available to you than almost anybody else in the history of the world and you could learn so many things from so many amazing brilliant minds and you choose not to you know you could play. Ah you know 2 less levels of candy crush and study some. Brent Gardner has worked in an excellent series with book of mormon I would highly recommend it. Yeah high play candy crush. Yeah, someone actually made an angry bird reference in church yesterday. But how she was spending too much time doing it and so she could family history instead. But yeah.

33:13.70
Geoff Openshaw
Are people still playing Candy Crush is that still a thing or or is this or is this kind of outdated is this like an angry birds reference I don’t know.

33:25.60
Geoff Openshaw
You and you rolled your eyes like okay okay, you’re a little behind the times there you do raise some good some good points I mean I I think I didn’t maybe didn’t learn a lot of things as early as you did in your personal gospel career right? but you gotta have like you gotta take things with.

33:28.91
Sariah Wilson
Angry birds. No.

33:44.50
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, grain of salt you’ve got to like look for the nuance and that’s what I that’s what I’ve tried to do and give people the benefit of the doubt I mean like you I figure forgot we were talking about before when you know someone said you know the church did not acknowledge Joseph Smith was a polygamous until 2013 which that is not true I would say the church has tried to be more.

33:48.14
Sariah Wilson
Yep.

34:04.17
Geoff Openshaw
Forthright about a lot of those things since around 2013 when the Gospel topics actually started showing up I think there was I think theres a lot of parts of our history that we have found difficult to find a way to discuss or address in a mainstream context and so we’ve just kind of tried.

34:08.30
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

34:21.13
Geoff Openshaw
Not to say it didn’t happen but just not to highlight it right in our in our quest for acceptance from America especially in a big part of it. Um, and I do think in that that part of it. You know could be could have been to our detriment I think there’s a lot for my generation in particular who have left because. They were raised with this one thing and with what the Sunday school curriculum was and kind of just doing it strictly along those lines like a lot of of people in the church and then with the advent of the internet I think we’ve been playing a little bit of ketchup as a church without a sort of put out those fires. There’s nothing wrong with finding information on the internet. Um. And verifying its its source verifying whether it’s actually researched and true and all that I think it’s just equipping ourselves with the tools necessary to deal with that those things and deal with things that we find uncomfortable or maybe you know things might be hard for us to stomach or process and that’s okay, there I think there are definitely unsavory parts of our church history.

35:11.83
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

35:17.31
Geoff Openshaw
Are just kind of like hard I mean we’ve talked under the banner of heaven I know that at some point they allude to the mountain meadows massacre for example and that’s just a dark period of church history. There’s not like a way to sugarcoat it folks. It’s it’s not some thing where we have to try to make excuses for no it just people made stupid decisions. Very bad decisions and. And people suffer because of it but we can grow and we can change and we can move on and we can recognize that there there is error in our past at times as well. Despite of course the divine and and you know the inspired call of certain individuals help bring about the restored gospel like you said Sirah no one’s ah. People were not perfect and they were in many cases learning as they went I love the example of getting baptized every Sunday it’s a good example of how things have changed and you know what else has changed like the word of wisdom you think they took that seriously originally folks was the word of wisdom always part of a temple recommend question no was did polygamy stop immediately when they said cut it out.

35:59.90
Sariah Wilson
Help.

36:09.24
Sariah Wilson
Nope.

36:13.69
Geoff Openshaw
No, um, you know that’s why we had to go through 2 manifestos to finally weed it out. Not just in in the Us. But even in foreign countries and if if it weren’t for people not caring about the polygamy ruling I wouldn’t be here. So thank you colonists of Mexico who still wanted plural wives today. Thank you because you gave me my grandma much appreciated. Um, anyway, well, this was a fun little tangent. Ah I will do a quick little update here. The church did a quick update to vaccine requirements for missionaries now as you might remember of course because we have this little pandemic thing over the past couple of years and some people got very. Very bothered when the church came out and said you know if you’re serving abroad. You’re going to get the covid vaccine and folks are like come on. It’s my choice I can choose completely overlooking the fact that if you serve abroad you’ve had to get a slew of vaccines. You know how many vaccines I had to have before I went to Spain on my mission I had a bunch of vaccines.

37:07.23
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

37:10.42
Geoff Openshaw
That’s okay so covid’s just one of many that’s good. Um that mostly still stands obviously things have been getting hopefully permanently better with covid I know cases are officially on the rise by now with another sub variant. But we’re kind of seeing if it actually becomes as much of ah, an issue that al macron was back in in the winter. Hopefully not. Right? I hope that we’re kind of at a place where it just sort of lingers and disappears It’s no big deal but um, very minor updates. So what they’ve done here is ah after requiring missionaries to be vaccinated and this is only ones who server abroad by the way if you’re um, an american and you’re serving in America then whoop you do okay. So those who are serving outside their country will still be required to get the covid 19 vaccine but they’re only required now to get a booster if the country they are serving in requires it very fine difference there I’m assuming before they ask them all to get boosted and for some reason now we are changing our language on boosting. So I found ah I looked online for a list of because the tristant didn’t note this but like which is which countries are requiring boosters of visitors at least from tourism perspectives. So I assume that would be for long-term visas as well. Mostly European Austria Belgium croa Bulgaria Croatia czech republic Estonia France greece italy also Israel lafia the Netherlands Portugal Singapore Spain and Switzerland the United Arab emirates has been on the list but we’re not sending proselytizing missionaries there anyway, some of that’s changing. So I think that’s really all it is like. Going on a mission to Spain. You’ll still have to get boosted. That’s kind of what’s going on here. But if you’re going on a mission to Germany you don’t have to get a booster if you don’t want 1.

38:44.44
Sariah Wilson
Which that seems.

38:52.49
Sariah Wilson
I Just think you’re your guests in their country. It would seem like if they ask you for something you should be a good guest and do what they ask I mean I had to get yes.

38:59.60
Geoff Openshaw
Well I think that’s that’s what we’re doing Basically yeah, they’re saying you know? Yeah, so that’s the just but they did note though this this applies to young proselytizing missionaries senior missionaries who leave their home country are still required to be fully vaccinated and receive a booster no matter the situation of the country in question, you have to get boosted if you’re a senior. Interesting stuff. Yeah, so so okay good deal. Get that shot remember two years ago and we all laughed when like all those parents congregated at Salt Lake airport when all the missionaries were coming home because of the pandemic and it was this giant like face palm moment of like guys. What are you all doing? Oh. It’s just funny to reflect on the past two years

39:19.95
Sariah Wilson
That’s interesting that is interesting.

39:38.78
Geoff Openshaw
Oh my goodness I know it was hilarious. Oh anyway, um and I’ll throw another quick one at you here things you may not know about church logos from Lds living folks. Um.

39:39.78
Sariah Wilson
We’re all infecting each other in the airport. That’s what they were doing.

39:58.10
Geoff Openshaw
1 of those kinds of weeks at least for me right? Jake Franiston here has got an article basically a quick history of the church’s logos. The church has actually only had three official um logo types is what we would call them because when they don’t have any kind of imagery. It’s just called if it’s just words that are stylized in a certain way. It’s a logo type or a word Mark um things I did not know though is. You know the old logo. We used to have that had sort of the kind of I call it staggered in a way. No the words kind of bounced around a little bit down left downright. You know the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints the one we had up through the 8 for a while that uses the same font called cynet and it’s the same font coke used the cokeo was just italicized.

40:24.52
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

40:36.80
Geoff Openshaw
And not all uppercase and bolded. But it’s the same font which is kind of interesting. This is for coke specifically like Coca-cola I don’t know if that’s the exact same font. But if you have like coke that’s the one. Um, it’s just a fun history of how we came up with this Ah, back. Went back in the days for a long time. We had no word Mark as you can find this they show examples of older buildings that just had like whatever sign they put on there with the church’s name on it. You might remember in the 90 s when the church’s logo or or keep holding the logo when the church’s logo type was updated to put more emphasis on Jesus Christ

41:08.85
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

41:10.83
Geoff Openshaw
Right? So someone had the church of then Jesus Christ very prominently in the center and then of latter-day saints. We’re pretty used to that one that’s been the logo for a long time now until of course president Nelson revealed the new symbol in 2020 which still uses the same typeface and by the way the typeface was custom built for the church even though it looks. Very close to palattino. But it’s not it was a typeface that’s called desret and it’s actually based on the same typeface used in ancient rome fancy that so in 2020 they unbuild the new symbol that has christ on it and I don’t know if people have really noticed this but the word Mark element of that. Ah, is a little bit different the words the church of are larger than they used to be compared to of latter-day saints which used to be the same size and they have caused all of it to be perfectly, not just centered but actually different. Spread across so it touches the left and right sides it’s it’s it’s adjusted in that sense. So it fills the whole space because it’s supposed to symbolize the the rock the cornerstone upon which Jesus stands basically so it’s kind of interesting stuff goes into some more detail about. Way the different designs we use for the picture of Jesus based off of course thorvaldson’s statue. Um, fun little read if you’re into this kind of stuff graphic design and what have you I did think it’s kind of funny that a couple of times they they called it a logo like the logo even though the church has said many times. It’s not a logo. But the logo that has Jesus like they call it a logo in the article and then there’s a you know, read more. You may also like why it matters that the new church symbol is not a logo because President Nelson went to great lengths to say this is not a logo update or a branding update like this is a new symbol. And a lot of people who work in that space were like okay is a logo but okay, whatever works that’s fine. Not going to hem and ho about it. It’s all good.

43:01.94
Sariah Wilson
Then I have nothing to add I’m sorry it’s cool. Ah.

43:03.54
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, no, no, no, no no i’ done where’re well then tell tickets to yours do go ahead. Go ahead. Sirra go ahead.

43:10.10
Sariah Wilson
Okay, so we have to talk about this I need to find my people if you are a listener and you are into this stuff I need you to contact me because I need someone to talk to about it. We’re going to talk about Julie staffer from the real world now being the age that I am. Was there when the first reality show broke ground the first real world in New York and it was revolutionary right? It was this thing that no one had seen before it was this big deal I was obsessed I mean we were in and started getting real. Yeah.

43:35.10
Geoff Openshaw
I mean people stopped being nice and started to get real I mean that was no one had done that before. So yeah.

43:41.69
Sariah Wilson
Right? It was. It was a big deal and I remember you know going to the dorms and sitting in my apartments and watching real world and kind of wishing that I could be a part of it but not really knowing how I could kind of reconcile my my faith and my beliefs with living in that kind of environment you know and end up getting married and then real world. New Orleans came out. And had Julie Staffer and oh I was every second of that like so into that it was so much fun to watch someone on this show who’s getting up on Sunday and going to church you know while her roommates are all hung over you know from the night before um, but it was a fascinating season for so many reasons it There’s a reason that continues to be 1 of the most popular ever I mean the the guys in the show so that what’s happened is Paramount plus has gotten them back together. It’s been 20 years 22 years and I’m watching that I subscribe to paramount plus specifically to watch the reunion like I’m that obsessed with it I did.

44:28.20
Geoff Openshaw
Oh so you’ve seen that. Okay, you know you did not you did? Ah yeah.

44:35.68
Sariah Wilson
And I’m like so excited to see it and you know because this is my they’re a few years younger than me, but this is kind of my age rate group right? and so it’s just funny to watch these people come back and I am shocked at how badly Julie is handling all of this and I would think. Her level of media savvy I’m like did you not talk to a publicist before you went on the show isn’t there someone who guided you on what to do. She is just for those who don’t watch what it happened was she was on the show. The little sweet mormon girl. You know that people kind of took under their wings. She made really good friends particularly with 1 girl who’s filipino and black and i. The gay guy who is the big. Don’t ask don’t tell and he’s become like an icon kind of since then to the point that they get recognized now like they go out in the show and they’re getting recognized and you know he met Beyonce and Beyonce like I know who you are and he’s like I know who you are you know they were. They were big deals. They were really popular in the media I mean we had such a saturation now reality shows I don’t think it’s. Quite the same thing but what ended up happening after the show is they become best friends. You know the the girl who the the woman of color name is Melissa her and Julie become the bestest of friends and they’re gonna go live together in Los Angeles well back then before Instagram before you could make money off your fame the way you did it was college speaking tours and. You know you want to get hired you make money that way and so what Julie did was she sabotaged Danny and Melissa and sent nasty letters about them like Melissa wants some autographs. She won’t talk to people but I will you know Danny is I mean it was about him being gay I don’t know exactly what she said, but it was really hurtful to him. Was very offended by what she’d said and so I thought I’ve tried to put myself in Julie’s shoes if I’m coming back 22 years they have not spoken to her since I mean they were both and I thought and obviously this happened it happened to more than 1 person she it’s so calculated everything she’s doing is so calculated but it’s calculated but stupid. Like she just makes the dumbest decisions instead of owning this well someone on my team must have done. It. It’s not my fault you know I’m sorry if you were hurt and they’re like no, no, no, not sorry if we were hurt sorry we were hurt like she just I don’t know she’s very I like you know she’s left the church. She left to church a while ago. But she’s such like the typical Utah County stay-at home mom like it’s almost kind of funny she she wears nothing but exercise gear the whole time. She’s on the show like she’s constantly in workout clothes. Um, yeah I mean her whole you know it’s just hilarious like she’s and so they go out to a club.

46:58.26
Geoff Openshaw
So hey I’m I’m in running pants right now come on now.

47:07.75
Sariah Wilson
And she gets blindingly drunk I mean so drunk that the bouncers come to the other cast members and like you have to leave like she’s out of control and maybe this is the difference if you didn’t ever drink in your twenty s or something I don’t know if you start suddenly doing it Your forty s it really messes you up. But. Point that one of the guys is trying to carry her out because she’s so belligerent and so awful that you know they’re going to call the police and ends up falling out of the car because she’s so drunk and I’m just like this is this is the freedom you were looking for like this is so much Better. You know? ah.

47:38.78
Geoff Openshaw
Well, it’s also probably the storyline. The producers are looking for and and creating a.

47:43.50
Sariah Wilson
Oh I’m sure they are and they’re so excited about her leaving the church but I just you can just see her before she talks to someone and you can see her mind going it and how is she gonna spin this and how is she gonna talk. She’s standing outside someone’s room and you can see from the expression on her face and it’s just she’s so bad at all of it I don’t understand not having any kind of. Self-awareness in this day and age to not be I mean she’s on the show making these racist and homophobic remarks you know, just call it what it is so I find her very interesting I’m I’m interested that you know using her faith to become so famous and turning her back on it so completely and just kind of making it. Total full of herself. It’s someone indicated that they think she might leave the show early and I would not be surprised I mean she is just screwing this up left and right and everybody else is just so excited to see each other you know like it really is this hey it’s been 22 years I’m so happy to see you and she’s just I don’t know. She was. She was the star of the show. It was what Mtv wanted in the first place you know the young Angel New unsophisticatedated girl goes to the big city for the first time it has her world view challenge. You can see that in earlier real world if there there’s always a character like that right? So she was that one so she was the star of the show and she is making herself the star of the show right now.

48:49.87
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

48:57.70
Sariah Wilson
I Don’t think she’s doing herself any favors I.

49:00.48
Geoff Openshaw
How’s the since it’s on streaming. How is how is it and like in terms of content like profanity and stuff like that is it more open season compared to the olden days. Yeah.

49:04.64
Sariah Wilson
I think there is some oh and Julie yeah, and Julie has got a mouth on her I’m like yes you can show us that you’re so cool now that you can use f bombs too it it definitely exists. So if you’re if you’re aware of that kind of thing just to be aware of that. Um I mean I find it fascinating because I was so obsessed with it at the time.

49:22.85
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

49:24.22
Sariah Wilson
You know and and to watch these people 20 like Danny the gay guy that he’s basically like in hiding in Vermont you know he works from home because he says I have complex ptsd from what we went through because every moment was watched and not only that but that he was dating someone. Under the don’t ask don’t tell rules of Clinton and he said we couldn’t be seen in public together because he would have lost his job and always feeling like you’re being watched and you can’t be yourself and you know so it’s interesting to see kind of how this fame you know and 1 of the girls on the show went on to marry the actor Scott Wolfe you know he started in party of 5 he plays the dead on Nancy Drew

49:58.36
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:00.82
Sariah Wilson
I mean big celebrity right? and she seems to handle it really well and she’s very happy. They’ve been married for a couple decades. They’ve got 3 kids you know so I don’t know I I’m finding it fascinating and like I said I so want to talk to someone about this and nobody else is watching it and I’m very disappointed. You know I want to find someone who’s.

50:18.94
Geoff Openshaw
Do do you want to divulge your email or any way for people to contact you if you need a friend there you go.

50:19.11
Sariah Wilson
He’s watching this and can talk to me about it. But oh yeah, you can go to my website. Yeah, just soiah http://sorihwilson.com you can email me and say I’m a fan. Let’s talk about Julie because I’m up for it.

50:31.62
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, oh okay, I’m never going to watch this but I’m glad you’re having a good time with it. But um, speaking of other women whose name starts with j so we had commencement to be why you the other week

50:33.72
Sariah Wilson
Now I’m having a great time.

50:45.65
Geoff Openshaw
And this has kind of made some interesting rounds here a byu student named Jillian Orr as she approached the podium to accept her diploma for a job. Well done graduating ah opened up her robes like a flasher and inside had knitted in a rainbow and she was using that opportunity to announce in her case for bisexuality. Um, but she had a lot of her reasons basically said that she realized kind of halfway through her byu experience. What her sexual orientation was different than she had supposed in the past and and struggled a lot through her time at Byu kind of keeping that to herself and she was scared about it and so she decided to use that moment to. Kind of be proud of who she is. She’s received plotits from many for doing so and ah, she’s also received of course derision from others who are saying you know why are you making this about you and the same stuff you would kind of expect right. all and all I mean I think this is an interesting moment. You could make the you could definitely make the argument of like why are you singling yourself out in commencement like what about the people who came before and after you like are they also not special right? Um, you’re having this great moment but it does speak of course to the fact that lg btq voices at b why you are so do still find themselves in a.

51:43.78
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

51:56.87
Geoff Openshaw
Difficult place you know, despite saying you can be gay as long as you keep the honor code and all that stuff I think it’s you’re still in an unenviable position at at Byu in that case and I imagine it feels awkward for many I mean for anybody whatever it is whether you’re bisexual whether you’re. The homosexual, whatever it might be. That’s that’s not not easy and so many have praised her for her courage and what she’s done um, one funny little wrinkle that’s shown up since then in the few days is that some people have said that it turns out she was employed at the. Everva carlston academy which I don’t know if you’re familiar with this place soiaa I to do a little bit of learning on my end but the ever carlston academy works in the tti industry which or which I believe is the teen trauma industry is what tti is I think that’s what it is.

52:37.46
Sariah Wilson
Her no.

52:53.71
Geoff Openshaw
Basically it’s one of these academies that like takes troubled teens and tries to kind of like tough. Love it out of them apparently troubled teen industry. That’s what I mean troubled teen industry. Um Eca apparently is known by many to be a network of this is a tweet but it describes it as an abusive.

52:59.33
Sariah Wilson
Wow.

53:10.93
Geoff Openshaw
Residential and wilderness-based program for troubles teens using things like outdated therapies like attack therapy um legal kidnapping unethical restraint and seclusion anyway, apparently Jillian worked there for a season and she’s they dug up old pictures of her. Like doing things like teaching people how to restrain people and talks about her own experience with this jillian girl um being brutal to her at 1 of these academies a lot of hearsay a lot of back and forth totally understand all this kind of stuff I just find it interesting that for. If any of this is true. You’ve got someone who’s coming out courageously saying hey this is who I am for it with my sexual orientation also by the way I used to work at a place that could be what somewhat interpret as abusive to kids who have those sexual orientations so that could be interesting too.

53:59.66
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

54:04.23
Geoff Openshaw
But I don’t know like I don’t want I’m out by strict rumors this these are people’s accounts I haven’t seen any official research beyond that stage like reporters going in and trying to verify it and all this but at the same time. There’s a lot of a lot that’s already shared that seems to show some kind the subsubstantiate it somehow.

54:05.92
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

54:21.17
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, it’s yeah I’m sorry I I don’t know I I’m with you I think I see both sides I can I can see why she would feel she needed to do it and I can see why people would feel like well it tracks and you know, but.

54:23.89
Geoff Openshaw
What do you think about all of this.

54:39.35
Sariah Wilson
I don’t know I guess I was just reading this study that said 40% of Gen Z Identifi as being lgb to q plus and whether that’s they actually are or it’s I’m going to be cool by being I don’t know um you know and generally we say the population. It’s about 10% right? So I don’t know but I’m like if that’s the case you know those 300 kids in primary you’re talking about a large percentage of them. You know 120 of them who would consider themselves to be this. You know on the ldbtq plus spectrum. So I think it’s something the church is I think there’s. Probably a reckoning coming I can’t I don’t know I’m speculating. Um, how things might change I don’t know but we have to be better about letting people in the boat we have to be better about making things more inclusive and more loving and I feel like that’s one of those things that you know for.

55:26.30
Geoff Openshaw
The.

55:34.85
Sariah Wilson
Hetero people for so many years like you know I’m trying to explain to my kids I’m like you understand when I was in high school nobody was out. You know they would have been bullied to death you know like it was just not something that was discussed. It wasn’t on Tv it wasn’t you know in? Yeah yeah.

55:46.15
Geoff Openshaw
You made fun of you made fun of it I remember I remember being in high school like it was totally normal to say that’s so gay you know like a pejorative that was a completely acceptable thing to say as part of our lexicon.

55:52.40
Sariah Wilson
Right? Yeah I mean and I think you expect you know your grandparents generation like my mom and dad like oh yeah, they’re really old and I think my kids look at me and go well, you guys. You know you’re not that old. Well yeah, but this isn’t the world that we grew up in and and it’s going to take some. Some shifts for us to understand and be more compassionate but I I just go back to the gospel and the gospel is to love everyone and love them where they are and bring him to Christ and we’ll let you know we get everybody in the boat then he decides who goes where you know, um, it’s our job just to bring him in and and I do feel like we need to be more inclusive and loving in that.

56:23.31
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

56:30.48
Sariah Wilson
And that particular area. Yeah.

56:31.00
Geoff Openshaw
And mean it Anyway, it’s all Week. It’s all we can do you know?? um like like what other what as are we goingnna grind that’s going to make the situation better. Just love people and listen to them. It’s not going to be Perfect. You’re not going to have all the answers. You’re not going to make everything better immediately and it’s not going to make it always easier to find a place. For them in the church sometimes but just love them instead of not loving them or singling them out and and on that note I’m curious I don’t know if if there will be any kind of repercussions for what Majillian has done you know will she get.

56:51.62
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

57:04.43
Geoff Openshaw
Disciplined I mean she’s just graduated. She’s basically off the off the roster I don’t think they’d do something crazy like take her to diploma away or anything like that. But there are some who fear like what will there be will there be repercussions for doing such a thing especially after be after you know bi is trying to focus more on you know the muskets and all that stuff that elder hollands suggested right? so.

57:15.21
Sariah Wilson
4

57:20.57
Sariah Wilson
Yes, yeah.

57:23.47
Geoff Openshaw
Um, remains to be seen all I’ve got one more I’m going to go through then you can hit yours real quick growth of the church people. 1 thing that Lds living has picked up on in recent years is the fact that the blog growth of the church of Jesus Christ of led latter-day saints run for many many many many many years by Matt Martinnick Exists and now they like to use its content to put up articles on all the s living so good for them. Basically the headline is these countries are the fastest growing in the church as measured by new congregations. Quick caveat though. This measures a jump from 2019 to 2021 because the church opted not to release. Country by country data for 2020 because of the pandemic which we’ve talked about before on the show like release I say release it anyway. But the the headline would be the fact that things slowed to nothing in 2020 and people would say oh look the church is collapsing so that’s probably why they didn’t do it even if I think for the sake of data fidelity. They should even if you can put a nice little asterisk.

58:12.82
Sariah Wilson
You know.

58:20.53
Geoff Openshaw
Says yeah, there was a pandemic stuff slowed down it happens. Um, pretty much all of the action is in Africa almost all of it. So the country is with the largest percentage increase in total number of wards or Branches Tanzania has a sixty two point five percent increase Malawi Zambia The Democratic Republic of the Congo Mozambique Kiibbis liberia sierraly own and Zimbabwe Papua new guinea so you have 8 in Africa and then one in Australasia which papua New Guinea and then kirabis which is like what’s that melanesia micronesia officially um, that’s where the action’s happening. That’s the biggest growth and number of.

58:57.89
Sariah Wilson
I haven’t gone to the blog is this is this like adjusted for numbers because I mean if you have a 1 person ward and it goes to 2 people. You know that’s a fake you know 100% increase is it. You know are they adjusting for that.

58:58.81
Geoff Openshaw
Populations and or congregations.

59:11.36
Geoff Openshaw
So so that’s the funny thing for some reason Lds living does not go into the actual numbers right? I don’t know why? Um, if you want to talk about hard numbers of increases. That’s actually the way Matt Martinick wrote it originally when he published this on April Twenty Fourth he wrote out the the.

59:16.25
Sariah Wilson
Okay.

59:29.98
Geoff Openshaw
Number of congregation increase or decrease and then the percentage related to it. So for let’s find where was Tanzania on here so Tanzania which has a sixty two point five percent increase right? The the biggest one in the church. That’s 5 more congregations. It’s kind of getting at what you were saying whereas.

59:40.82
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:49.50
Geoff Openshaw
The United States had 217 new congregations. But that’s a 1.5% increase. Um some are more notable though like 44 new congregations in The Democratic Republic of the Congo and that’s still a 21% increase based on that. But like you said yeah some are kind of funny because it’s like 4 more congregations is a. 31% increase in this country or like Malawi with 50% added 4 congregations with 50%. That’s great. That means they went from 8 to 12 terrific but and also of course they did not note the ones that have declined Matt Martinx straight shooter. He just reports on what the numbers are.

01:00:09.30
Sariah Wilson
Um, yeah.

01:00:14.46
Sariah Wilson
Oh yeah.

01:00:27.33
Geoff Openshaw
And what’s happening and that’s that and isn’t afraid to comment on why it might be but Japan lost 10 congregations almost a 4% decrease Taiwan lost 10 which is a 10% decrease Russia lost 7 um I guess the biggest 1 others Taiwan in terms of percentage then Portugal and Russia are kind of up there. Oh no, sorry Armenia oh arm Mania we’ve talked about Armenia before on this show I know you don’t listen all the time but um Armenia lost 6 units which doesn’t seem very much but that’s a 55% decrease arm Mania had a stake not too long ago and then they disorganized the stake and it’s.

01:00:50.20
Sariah Wilson
There. Well.

01:01:03.40
Geoff Openshaw
Very sad to see this slide that is continuing in Armenia in terms of the church. It’s bizarre and I know a lot of people submissions in Armenia like twenty years ago or so and I think things were really going up I don’t even hear about people serving missions there as much as I used to either so but I also am not like of the age when people are going on missions around me right? and I’m following that all the time.

01:01:18.62
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

01:01:22.65
Geoff Openshaw
So good stuff to know there folks things are happening in Africa Not a big surprise to anyone lot happening in Africa right now.

01:01:32.30
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, and I think that’s probably why I don’t know if I talk to you about it or someone else probably not you but the inclusion of instruments in the bishop’s handbook that went from just the piano right? or the you know flute or Violin or whatever to letting it be to the bishop’s discretion.

01:01:41.13
Geoff Openshaw
Um, yeah.

01:01:50.70
Sariah Wilson
And I don’t remember I even read this but they were talking about that. 1 of the reasons they think they did they made that change was because for the african saints. The drums are so important for their worship service and that they felt like we have our european Sunday sacrament. But then we have the real meeting on Wednesday where we play the drums and dance and so I think you missed. But yeah I must have been I know I’ve talked about it before? yeah.

01:02:08.56
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, wasnt you and I who were who were talking about this. It must be because I wrote a no I wrote a paper on this in grad school I was I forgot my entire thesis I would know I was I wrote a grad a paper on like the exporting of like American values.

01:02:25.42
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

01:02:26.24
Geoff Openshaw
Abroad as part of religious expansion more or less and kind of like where’s that line like what is the church and then what is just american culture and it was kind of long about that. They used to allow them and this was I hate I not I hate one being with those people who says like just Africa like it’s a country. It’s not but.

01:02:32.41
Sariah Wilson
Um, yeah.

01:02:40.17
Sariah Wilson
We are.

01:02:44.23
Geoff Openshaw
And many african nations they the authorities the general authorities would allow them like you said on the on weeknights to kind of get together and do something more culturally significant but Sundays were kind of the typical Sunday I am curious how that’s going to change now with the updated handbook and what that might mean for them down the line.

01:02:56.87
Sariah Wilson
Yeah I mean yeah and that there was there was speculation that that was part of the reason why was to allow people who you know in their culture filled the spirit through different instruments to be able to have access to those during sacrament. So I’m wondering how many other changes we’re going to have like that going forward as the church changes and grows.

01:03:15.40
Geoff Openshaw
Here.

01:03:16.74
Sariah Wilson
Areas like that you know that we have to be more inclusive and and bring people in to let them feel the spirit the way they feel the spirit.

01:03:22.77
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, well now I’ve got to find my my paper I want to write now I don’t remember what I wrote but gotta find out. Um, yeah I’m curious about that too I’m just hoping when we get to the house band. You know I want like the I want I want to rock for Jesus pretty hard I’m hoping somebody will get to that that’d be fun.

01:03:32.66
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, it may happen.

01:03:41.55
Geoff Openshaw
All right? What’s our last one here. Yeah, that’s ah, that’s a great little bit right there. That’s awesome. That’s a that’s feel good. Yeah.

01:03:42.97
Sariah Wilson
There’s it gonna do the Carolyn Pearson on or hatch that’s us as a sweet little story. You know that that Carolyn peson is I mean someone I kind of grew up with you know she was very outspoken in a time when a lot of Lds women were not outspoken. And you know her story being that her husband was gay and and came out to her years later and you know how that kind of fell apart and he died from aids in 1984 and and she loved him and took care of him till the end. Um, but and gave her a different perspective and and she’s known for being a poet and with poetry you know I’m a writer. Do not write poetry that is a totally different skill set you know and my poetry is just so affected and stupid sounding and and someone like Carolyn person writes just beautiful moving poetry and she’s you know, known for that and so she shared stories recently about that she was friends with. Um, Oren hatch and senator Harry Reid before their deaths and kind of shared stories about how she they called her and told her merry Christmas and that she touched their hearts. They loved her poetry so much that it it opened their minds and it changed their perspective and it made them consider things that they hadn’t considered. Um, I mean I think Oren hatch that it’s right here it says said Carolyn I just have to tell you what a great contribution. The book is I’ve worked closely with gay people and I know they are wonderful members of society you’ve done us all a great service by sharing that story and so she was able to really touch. People’s lives and met with them and. You know dc I guess at Henry Reid’s daughter got married and they asked her to do a poetry reading and she’s sitting in the front row with the reed family. You know, just a very sweet, very sweet thing in her talking about them and that she that she loved them and considered them friends. Um, it’s just not.

01:05:18.34
Geoff Openshaw
Ah.

01:05:32.64
Sariah Wilson
Not a connection that I would have expected. You know her sharing that I’m like wow really really because she just it seems just so different like their spheres of influence are just so different but to know that she had that kind of effect and that her art you know, affected these famous. Lds politicians which I think is just really cool.

01:05:50.31
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, it’s kind of it’s it’s weird thing too. You know Harry read an oren hatch opposite sides of the political spectrum and both passing away. Ah you know within pretty I forgot how it was this year that Harry Reid died as well. I mean these are a couple months apart that this happened. Interesting man I love the stories of or hatch and how I love the one she says how he went to he went to de book because he had some influence right? I think it talked about that because she oh where was the prior she wrote day did to da da one of her poems had a feminist twist desire a book decided they weren’t in like.

01:06:15.18
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

01:06:27.10
Geoff Openshaw
Carry it and yeah or or in Hatch. It’s like that’s not okay. I’m gonna go talk to them. You know, but nothing happened with it. But it’s fun to see personal anecdotes about people who often just get covered in the political press and what we think of them in terms of policy and forgetting that a guy like Oren Hatch could be. Up there saying like no this kind of like poetry this this these sorts of things matter and we should be embracing them as a faith community and not saying no and of course he was disappointed. It didn’t go anywhere. They both worked. You know Harry read and na or hatch both worked on the behalf of the church quite a bit Harry Reid famously did tons of stuff behind the scenes.

01:06:48.99
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

01:07:02.50
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, it’s.

01:07:05.22
Geoff Openshaw
On behalf of the church while he was in office. So yeah, good little anecdotes here I appreciate those they were great. We put those on our Facebook Page you can go find them at Facebook you can find everything you want pertain to the show on social media on Twitter at this week at http://mormons.com you can join us on Patreon. Three bucks a month supports the show and keeps us doing this largely without ads or interrupttions or anything along those lines. You just get to enjoy a show. How nice is that folks I’m not doing a 5 minute ad break nothing like that just talking to you now. So good times like that I hope you will all buy the soiaa’s new book that is out that she forgot exists.

01:07:37.63
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, it’s called Cinder Nanny Yeah, yes, it had a sendder all up thing. But yeah, she’s a nanny and it’s got to sendder what things So it’s called Cinder Nanny I’m up for I like titles and just tell you what the book is I think very clutter. So.

01:07:39.73
Geoff Openshaw
And so wow is it like Cinderella or so or okay or she’s.

01:07:51.41
Geoff Openshaw
I mean yeah, there’s no need to be cryp. You don’t need to be cryptic like like when I was I was in a you know a band years ago and we prided ourselves on obscure song titles that had nothing to do with the song. So don’t be that person don’t be a person who writes a song called this is for you Chad and.

01:07:56.20
Sariah Wilson
Yeah.

01:08:00.79
Sariah Wilson
You mad about that person.

01:08:11.38
Geoff Openshaw
The the lyrical content is nothing to nothing of that. It’s just like an inside joke is bandmates so good on you, you’re but you’re much more seo Friendly. So good for you. That’s good. We look forward to seeing your new book coming out as well and above all else. Let’s not stay apart so long. So right, It’s been nice to have you back on good deal.

01:08:16.67
Sariah Wilson
Yes.

01:08:24.24
Sariah Wilson
Yeah, definitely anytime I’d love to come back.

01:08:29.39
Geoff Openshaw
Please visit her siriaw http://wilson.com please visit us online listen to the show write reviews to all that good stuff folks and until then I’ve been Geoff that was soiaa and we’ll check in again in sail as mcmansions are going around the temples and until that time hope you have a great week this week of mormons is over by bye.

 

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