EP 582 – More Than a Mission Mom

TWiM_EP582_More_Than_A_Mission_Mom_Lisa_Harkness
What happened to the mural in the Washington, DC temple? Do wealthier stakes have a better time with Trek? The "mission mom" is more.

Another week, another newscast. Plenty has happened since we last convened, including updates to temple garments for military members, more “Mormons in crime” coming to the silver screen, a slew of temple updates, the evolution of the “mission mom,” and much more. Devin Thorpe joins us from his alligator-infested hellscape to work through it all.

Latter-day Saint News

We mention on the show that this famous John Scott mural has been removed from the Washington DC Temple:

In favor of this one by Dan Wilson:

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Transcript

00:00.00
Geoff
Everybody what’s going on welcome to This Week in Mormons glad to have you here. This is the premiere latter day Saint News Podcast I’m Geoff Openshaw yall good uptake. Not only did you do it right? You did so with alomb my friend that was very good that was very.

00:09.83
Devin
I’m Devin Thorpe did I do did I do it right? Geoff. Ah, it’s a thrill to be here with you this week. It’s thrilled to be back? Yeah, um I saw a giter in the swimming pool at our condo today and then realized then I realized it was plastic.

00:20.00
Geoff
Ah, see you buddy. Ah what? what’s going on down there in gator country. How’s life.

00:31.20
Geoff
Um, it’s like ah ah.

00:34.66
Devin
It was the little gaiter shaped ah pool skimmer but you know there for a second and.

00:38.70
Geoff
I was like is that like I thought it was some sort of weird way to scare away the gators they put fake gators to keep the other gators away because they’re solitary. No, they’re not oh well here I thought you were like straight up leaning into the cliche.

00:45.53
Devin
Yeah, that I don’t know I think that would attract them gatorters like gatorers I think yeah now sorry.

00:57.79
Geoff
But it wasn’t real. That’s okay, cool. Um, well I hope everything is well and.

01:02.42
Devin
There is a sign Next we have a little pond next to our place here and there’s a you know sign that says you know don’t go in the water because they’re alligators. We’ve never seen the alligators. But yeah, but.

01:09.11
Geoff
Yeah Florida is weird like that. Everyone wants to like you know people want to move to Florida but because there’s all the water but I guess you got to restrict yourself to salt water in Florida like you don’t go in the water unless it’s the beach despite all the many lakes everywhere that would just be.

01:22.80
Devin
Yeah.

01:29.30
Geoff
I remember you couple well handful of years ago wasn’t there. It was terrible terrible tragedy some ah little kid was playing on the beach at one of the resorts at Disney world and that’s like their own little controlled lake thing that they own in front of the grand floridian kid goes near the water and a cater got him and they have signs up like you don’t there’s a beach here but we don’t go down in the water. But.

01:31.44
Devin
Um, yeah, they have.

01:40.44
Devin
Am am as horrible.

01:48.91
Geoff
Man what? Ah what is going on in that strange strange place. It’s America’s Australia down there Devin where you live to quote Jack donaggie.

01:51.36
Devin
That is it is you know it. It is. It’s really funny to me and you’d you’d have some appreciation for this having moved from Utah which you know Utah is arguably the most republican state in the in the country. Certainly one of the most republican. But ah if but yeah, you know so Florida is about fifty fifty or fifty one forty nine ah but it’s definitely ah, culturally more more conservative than Utah which I find.

02:12.19
Geoff
so is north so is North Florida though so okay

02:27.45
Geoff
Yeah.

02:30.10
Devin
To be very interesting and that may just be Northern Florida but it’s remarkably more conservative than than Salt Lake city yeah Yeah and I guess that’s part of the juxtaposition I’m experiences right? I left.

02:37.22
Geoff
oh yeah, oh yeah well fourth one Salt Lake City for sure for sure.

02:46.10
Devin
Downtown Salt Lake city the most liberal place in Utah and moved to the most conservative place in Florida and I’m wondering why it doesn’t feel more liberal. You know anyway, shame on me shame on me.

02:52.74
Geoff
I yeah yeah, yeah I’m ah yeah, you know you know DCSuburb is interesting DC itself no no surprised to anyone right? with the political leanings of Greater Dc might be but I’m kind of like you’re kind of on that chairer like it’s blue purple country but all I have to do is drive Twenty Twenty five minutes out

03:06.95
Devin
A.

03:10.74
Geoff
And next thing you know you’re in much more rural territory and then based on the political signs. It’s like totally totally different world I mean the rural urban divide is very pronounced in Virginia which which doesnt make it pretty interesting like just in terms of politics and the way things work out here. It’s it’s fun to watch. You know if you can remove yourself from all the drama of it all. It’s just interesting from a research standpoint.

03:15.84
Devin
Yeah, oh sure. Ah yes.

03:30.68
Geoff
Yeah, it is oh well cool. What good times my friend we’ve got a great show this week folks. Lots of good things are gonna happen I had a I before we get there I’ve had an interesting few weeks as well. They put me in the bishop Rick so the oh way is that what we say okay.

03:32.20
Devin
Yeah, no, there are some interesting things.

03:42.50
Devin
Oh no way congratulations that that yeah, no way that that is pretty awesome that is pretty awesome. So ah first counselor second Counselor Bishop what are you second counsellor.

03:49.17
Geoff
Yeah, so.

03:52.98
Geoff
Second second counselor. Oh not the bishop nobody would nobody would do that. Let’s let’s swim nation pray that pray this is as far as it gets trip twin nation not that I believe I do not believe that it’s like elevation per se but let’s pray that i.

03:59.98
Devin
Well, that’s that’s great congratulations congratulations.

04:12.46
Devin
Ah.

04:12.68
Geoff
Ah, don’t reach for the stars anymore. My bishop’s only got about a year and change left until his time is up so let’s ah see.

04:19.23
Devin
That’s a scary I think I think you’ve got big things in your future. The question is will you have time for twin when you get called to be the bishop that is the key question.

04:22.67
Geoff
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

04:30.63
Geoff
I’ve you know time is 1 thing but I even debate like if I were for 1 thing but to be clear everyone I’ve not been called as a bishop nor do I think I will be but even even with being a counselor. It’s more like should I continue twin doing something like this because you’re you’re increasingly more cognizant.

04:43.26
Devin
But yeah.

04:47.97
Geoff
Of the voice you put out there and your role in leadership and award and what that means and I think on twin we have laughs. We have good times I try to be like measured in what we do here I mean I have my own views on things but we try to have respectful discussions even with different you know, different views and the things we do but but I’m always thoughtful.

04:52.85
Devin
Um, yeah.

05:05.42
Geoff
About that like ah like how would I feel if someone in my flock for lack of a better term. You know, listen to the podcast and would that could that be a thing that could be a negative for someone’s relationship with the church and that’s something have to consider when I was eldersorn President I Kind of went through the same thing I thought like should I continue this for that reason I was busy too but like.

05:16.50
Devin
Yeah.

05:25.31
Geoff
You know or or is this is this kind of segregate or sequestered enough from the rest of my life that no one really knows kind like I advertise doing this and church or anything like that I I rarely I really have ever bring up this podcast in a church setting because I feel like it would be inappropriately promoting it and you kind of like leveraging.

05:33.30
Devin
Yeah.

05:44.29
Devin
Now.

05:44.55
Geoff
Church for that and I just think that’s just kind of just wrong ethically So I would never do it So I don’t know we’ll see so I think so far I’m still good.

05:49.95
Devin
Yeah, my my twin highlight ah was a few episodes ago when I was on and I got an email from someone in our state Karen Jacksonvilles hey

06:03.61
Geoff
Oh yeah.

06:05.99
Devin
I Always been a devon fan I Love love the episodes when you’re on and now you’re here living in my very stake I’m so excited so you never know It’s a small world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.

06:12.20
Geoff
Well now you you got to go to lunch with that person. Youve you’ve got to go to lunch with that person you got to do it. Um, we’ve had we had enough drama I mean back when ordaina women was a thing and Kate Kelly was in my same st and there were like board members and that that was a whole fun thing going on here at my aors stake presidency was. Very measured and collected. But there there were a lot of concerns during sorry that stretch. Oh that was fun. Yes, a lot of cool stuff. We’ll get into this week obviously some in temple updates and there’s interesting milestones some some ah property damage for missionaries the weird history of like.

06:30.88
Devin
Oh man. Yeah, how had’s that stuff. Yeah.

06:48.27
Geoff
White national like radical far right? Nationalism and church. Um the notion of that the mission mom is a lot more than that as an also preparation for trek everybody because Trek is coming your way even if it shouldn’t ah some updates from media sense of of.

06:59.30
Devin
I.

07:04.55
Geoff
Crazy true stories. Not just true cry I’m not the one you’re all thinking of but true stories of things that have happened to latter-day saints over the past thirty years some of which are being adapted for screen. There’s even more of that and some updates on temple garments lot of cool things. We’re gonna get into this week and I don’t even know. I don’t even know where to start Devin. There’s so many choices. Maybe you can start I don’t want to start? you go ahead. You go ahead. Okay.

07:25.62
Devin
Yeah, yeah, well let’s let’s jump into the mission Mom Story If you don’t mind. Um, so you caught this that I had missed a fascinating little piece about um.

07:31.78
Geoff
Okay, no I’ll go for it.

07:45.10
Devin
Let me check her name here Lisa Harkness who is now serving as officially a mission leader which turns out is the new name for the spouse of a mission president that is the official calling. And this is something that is kind of near and dear and interesting. So the article talks about how it is to sort of be the mom the mission mom to more than 200 missionaries she’s serving in the Canada meant Montreal mission but my mother my mother was ah had this job.

08:11.95
Geoff
Yeah.

08:18.81
Devin
When my dad was a mission president in Spokane Washington and I was young enough to still be at home. My dad was a fairly young mission president and so I was there watching her go through this and one of the interesting things is she until the day she died. She was a little bit resentful that she although she was set apart the same time. My father was set apart. They did not record her as having served a mission at that time and so she served a 3 year mission worked full time in her mind and did not get recorded. On the records of the church is having served a mission and so that’s interesting I hope the fact that they have created an official title that did not exist when my mother served that they do record them as serving missions now. That’s only appropriate and fair I hope that’s what that means and.

09:00.90
Geoff
Huh.

09:16.45
Devin
But I tell you? um I don’t think my mother was ever happier than serving in that role. What a joy every day It was just ah I mean she spent so much time so much energy and she just loved every minute of it. Um, it even distracted her from you know? Well I won’t say it Anyway, she loved it. She loved it.

09:41.28
Geoff
I always loved our. Um 1 thing I love saying I mean I loved we always call him. You know the mission mom when I was out in Spain and they were they were both great I I served three quarters of my mission with the boeens and then the last quarter of it with the with the new mission president.

09:47.35
Devin
Um.

09:57.74
Geoff
Just fun to see how they interact and for me it was a lot of fun because while I had more time with the first one I was in leadership roles in the mission near for the last stretch so it kind of made up for that where I got to spend a lot more like 1 on 1 time with the mission president and his wife the mission leaders as we call them and that was.

10:11.65
Devin
Yeah.

10:14.31
Geoff
That was that was really fun and really insightful. Another thing I loved at the time is they had the foresight to be more proactive and involving sister missionaries this is kind of but because it’s 1 thing we’ve talked about for years on the show and even in the church. How do you let sisters serve in leadership positions like. Like I’ve long held like like being a district leader they they’re district leaders in the temple square mission for example because there are no elders but at the same time as far as I know being a district leader is an assignment You know you’re not called to it. You’re not set apart for it. You don’t do anything to it just give an assignment and so why can’t they do it.

10:34.51
Devin
Smith.

10:47.51
Geoff
But I think the church has has grown and adapted and and looked for more ways to have them involved and on my mission. It was really cool to see the way they would ah invite sisters up every month when we zone leaders would go to Barcelona and have meetings with the mission president. You know, usual little you know weekend seminar kind of stuff. Um, they started inviting the sister missionaries. I forgot how they decided because it wasn’t every sister missionary. Obviously I think it was ones that had so much time in the field or something like that I don’t remember what it was but that was cool and it was fun because it’s like yeah they weren’t fun. They weren’t the zone leaders but our mission president saw value and say like yeah I need to get the sister missionaries in here too and let them receive this council and not receive its second hand from their dumb zone leader me right? which made a lot of sense so that was cool. Ah. Anyway, yeah, this article is a fun profile now that I’ve brought it up here of Lisa Harkness and how she’s ah her title they say is her official title is mission leader and this is a curious thing that I haven’t like I don’t don’t know how codified this is. They they do show like I found another older story back in December we talked about how they updated member tools you can share contact information with mission leaders and the verbiage there. They showed a picture of mission president his wife like leaf and Linda Erickson and it says who served as mission leaders collectively during their period in Zambia for example. So. It’s like a term we’re using but at the same time if you go to http://lds.org sorry http://churchofjerist.org and search for mission leaders. You don’t like really find much and even the idea of mission leader in this article this surprised from where it comes from this article specifically from the canadian portal for the church is not from the main.

12:20.84
Devin
Man.

12:22.60
Geoff
Page. So if you click on it also takes you to a Canadian page about mission leader but most of it if you look for a new mission presidents. It says very specifically Mission president and his companion and his companion the classic verbiage. So I don’t know maybe this is a newer thing that we’re not pushing well enough and we we need to and I don’t think it takes away from the idea of being the mission mom.

12:38.17
Devin
Yeah, but I think it’s yeah I I Really think that the although it’s an endearing term and in the gospel you know in our church context. We think of.

12:41.81
Geoff
Either at the same time but I like this Q and a with a chart.

12:55.43
Devin
Mom is being high praise having a title other than mother for someone who is not. In fact, the mother to these people is very appropriate but it should be ah, totally formalized totally formalized so that ah you know.

13:02.26
Geoff
Yeah.

13:13.15
Devin
The the women who are devoting the same 3 years their husbands are don’t come home and find themselves having served only as the wife of their husband for 3 years um that’s yeah.

13:20.81
Geoff
Yeah, it’s it’s it’s way more than that it’s way more in that and that’s one thing I like the idea of the mission mom but I also worry about the the restrictive connotations of that you think well here’s the president doing and then here’s the mom here’s the mom doing.

13:34.92
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:37.61
Geoff
Motherly chores and this article was brought up because it was mother’s day and we’re trying to acknowledge that. But I think we’re on the same page here. It’s a fun profile and they they do a little q and a with her just about her experiences. The things she learns how missionaries are part of their family. It’s it’s a very nice read I love I love insights from. People in these types of roles and seeing what they learned from like I’ve never aspired to any calling. But I think it would be really interesting to be a mission president like of all the things you could do in the church just a fascinating way to dedicate your time. 1 thing we know, no no, you go ahead? okay.

13:59.30
Devin
Have.

14:05.76
Devin
It’s fascinating to you know you you you pointed it out to me and I think it’s really an important thing and that you pointed out to me before we went live and that is that she has been serving in the general ah primary presidency. And that fact is not mentioned in the article. Ah.

14:22.75
Geoff
Yeah, and I scoured it I looked all over for primary anything primary presidency counselor or anything like that and there was no mention of this. She was in the primary presidency just until she was the first counselor in it until last year because in 2021 is when they called Sister Johnson

14:34.45
Devin
And she yeah yeah.

14:39.78
Geoff
And the new president or president Johnson and the new presidency and now she’s going to switch over and be the release society president I mean this is a woman who’s spoken in general conference before.

14:43.10
Devin
Yeah, yeah, and you know I it. It really is ah it was unkind and disrespectful to not mention her past standing. Ah. And to imply that her only duty at this point is to be a mission mom. Ah this is a super accomplished leader in the church and yet I think it’s not like this is an article about president Nelson where you don’t need to explain the history right.

15:05.35
Geoff
Yeah.

15:21.93
Devin
We all know that he’s been in an apostle for 40 years there are people who don’t recognize the name Lisa Harkness it would it was totally appropriate inappropriate. Not to mention that um.

15:33.41
Geoff
It’s it’s interesting to me. Yeah I she spoke twice in conference honoring his name and then peace be still but October Twenty nineteen and October Twenty Twenty respectively she was a pandemic speaker even um, it’s I’m not well. Ah I yes.

15:39.85
Devin
Yeah, she was on the ah now she she’s on the primary general board for ah for a number of years before she was called to the presidency. Yeah.

15:50.50
Geoff
That so so it is curious right? I mean um, she’s been there since July 2021 after they did the release and they’ve been in the mission field and good for them. But it is a strange editorial choice to leave that that information I don’t I don’t fully get why they would do that. Why not provide that additional context like you said like but to me, you know if ah, they wouldn’t do that.

16:00.50
Devin
Now.

16:09.61
Geoff
To a male. It’s highly unlikely. They would not mention all of their previous service if it was if it was relevant to that if it was like so and so who happened to be the general young men’s president at another period of time. It would probably come up. It would probably come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right I got a.

16:09.65
Devin
No, yeah, it’s.

16:19.20
Devin
Um, yeah, yeah I think so.

16:27.12
Geoff
I want to call this a fun one even though hate crimes aren’t fun but I don’t know it’s just you know I you know what I mean so a man in Connecticut has been charged with a hate crime after setting fire to the missionary’s vehicle. Apparently he lived in an apartment above the missionaries in Tourington Connecticut. Ah.

16:28.81
Devin
Yeah, you can see the humor in this, you can see the humor in this.

16:46.54
Geoff
And according to police statements. The perpetrator was quote tired of the missionaries knocking on doors and trying to convert his family and friends so Samuel Van Dusen 22 by the way. Great mug shot I don’t have it in this article but I saw it elsewhere and just seems very pleased with himself was.

17:02.53
Devin
Ah.

17:05.52
Geoff
Was charged with a lot deprivation of rights third degree arson firsteg degree criminal mischief and second degree breach of peace deprivation of rights is considered a hate crime though because he was targeting the missionaries not at random but specifically for religious reasons and so he’s been held unless it’s changed since we wrote the article but he’s been held on a quarter million Dollar bond

17:12.51
Devin
Yeah.

17:24.73
Geoff
And so Fox 61 interviewed people and they said yeah that around 3 am they saw a man stuff a lit rag into the gas filler cap and a Chevy equinox and tried to you know nuke the whole ah whole vehicle. So that’s curious I mean I i.

17:37.80
Devin
They he accomplished very little. It looks to me from the photos that it looks to me like the car’s going to spend a couple of days in the shop ah to be repaired. But yeah I suspect they.

17:47.70
Geoff
And it might be worse than that I don’t know I don’t I mean something happened to the front windows too in the process. No one comments on the fact that there’s a giant tre? yeah.

17:55.75
Devin
Ah, probably broke in probably probably broke in the the fire department to make sure the fire was out.

18:00.66
Geoff
I well I was gonna say maybe I mean I don’t know I don’t know how ah you drive a Gm oh you don’t have a gas car though. Never mind I’m I’m saying is it a gas is it a gas cap that requires interior release to open it whereas some do some do some don’t.

18:06.39
Devin
Right? Yeah yeah. Oh So maybe the perpetrator did do that? Yeah yeah I think the G I think well yeah, my Gm gas cap on my charge report just is one of those you tap down and it spring is yeah.

18:20.26
Geoff
The.

18:26.52
Geoff
Little spring loaded thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so this happened interestingly too the ah of kind of out of nowhere where the council on American Islamic relations spoke up about the incident. They don’t provide a lot of context for why they of all groups did um but for some context, the church has done a lot with with care. Council on American Islamic Relations in the past ah you might not hear about it. But I’ve even been to a care fundraising dinner at which the church like public affairs for Southern California bought a table we do a lot of things that we don’t always talk about publicly but they said americans of all faiths should be free to share their faith without fear of intimidation or attack. We condemn this alleged bias motivated attack and urge community leaders to speak out against the type of bigotry that inevitably leads to such incidents and while we can chuckle a little bit about this entire thing. Definitely worth noting that latter-day saints are very much in the minority in terms of. Being on the receiving end of hate crimes in the United States in 2019 the Fbi revealed it had been tracking hate crimes against religious groups for some time it documented 15 anti mormon hate crimes during a certain period. But during that same period jews experienced hate crimes at 63 times the rate we did and muslims at 18 times the rate we did so it doesn’t make it. Ah yeah, it doesn’t make and it’s not okay for it for anyone. You know there shouldn’t be any a single hate crime. But let’s also bear in mind that.

19:40.20
Devin
Yeah, that’s that is really remarkable.

19:51.95
Geoff
There’s a lot of people whose faith communities are are much more under assault than we might be for something like this.

19:54.89
Devin
And Geoff I you correct me if I’m wrong. But I think in terms of at least in terms of orders of magnitude. The number of jewish people muslims and mormons in the country is about the same right.

20:10.99
Geoff
Um, I think that might be right latter race center a little bit under maybe 2% of the us population. So it’s probably close to that. Yeah.

20:20.14
Devin
6000000 yeah so it’s at least in terms of like orders of magnitude. It’s pretty. You know it’s in that ballpark.

20:26.40
Geoff
Yeah, or per capita it’s it’s far far worse. Let’s see or did did did did to did today well now and now I want to look this up but we should do other things. Yeah jewish is about 1.9% ju jewish 1.9% yeah so

20:36.35
Devin
Yes. Yes, so about half as many yeah um, you know the I had a fun experience back in Salt Lake I visited two weeks ago after for the first time back since I moved to Jacksonville at Christmas time.

20:43.51
Geoff
Muslims point 9% okay

21:01.83
Devin
And I gave a friend of mine a call and he’s serving as the bishop in one of the new wards one of the awardds assigned to the new chapel that is part of the skyscraper downtown. It’s Salt Lake and and so and my old.

21:13.92
Geoff
No cool I saw that? Yeah yeah, yeah.

21:19.97
Devin
My old work where I used to live now meets in this building as well. So It was significant to me on multiple levels. So I’m excited to talk about it. It’s interesting from the renderings I Never appreciated how the building was designed but it is designed with a fairly overt Chapel. Ah, upon which a skyscraper sits ah and so it’s designed to appear that the the building is sort of cantelevered over the chapel which is a little bit of ah of a you know visual trick. Of course it doesn’t really.

21:49.92
Geoff
Yeah.

21:58.60
Devin
Do that. But it’s designed to appear that way and it’s really quite striking quite beautiful. Um, and there are some really spectacular views from inside the chapel not inside the chapel chapels but inside the meeting house portion of the building looking down ah south and ah. You know down into the Valley. So. It’s really kind of a nice chapel There are 2 2 chapel chapels um, and the downstairs one is a little bit smaller than the upstairs one. The downstairs one has a bona fide well half court basketball court. But there is a hoop. Ah, and the upstairs one has a little smaller overflow and not doesn’t have a basketball court and the chapels are nice. They’re not spectacular. They are not special I don’t mean to insult anyone who’s going to church in those wards now. But ah. They are very nice. But I think there are 6 wards meeting that building from at least 2 stakes if not 3 I think it must be 3 stakes that are sending wards there one from the liberty stake a couple from the Salt Lake stake and the other others from I think from the Ensign stake if I’m not mistaken.

23:03.70
Geoff
Well.

23:15.63
Devin
And I could be but um, it’s it. It’ll be a great blessing like the fourth ward where I used to attend which is called the fourth ward because it was the fourth ward of the church organized in eighteen Forty nine along with the other first Twenty nine wards of the Salt Lake area at the time and it was the first time I understand that the wards were created in the church I may have that wrong. But that’s what I think it’s the first so it was the fourth ward very historic very cool but for the last thirty years since the fourth ward building burned to the ground they have been wandering like nomads in the wilderness going from guest spot to guest spot in other chapels and now I took a picture of the of the fourth ward’s name on the wall inside this new building and.

24:14.80
Geoff
That’s cool.

24:14.21
Devin
It has a look of of a look and feel of permanence that they have lacked for 30 years it’s kind of exciting for them. Big deal.

24:18.10
Geoff
Um, and isn’t it built on the site of the old Pioneer Era Social Hall I think I read something in the article. They’ve got some like they’ve got like a little display area about some of the history of the actual lot that it sits on right.

24:28.50
Devin
Yeah I don’t know if that’s in the building or if it’s adjacent to it The there is a little museum for the old social ha that that’s yeah, it’s immediately adjacent. It is not in the it’s not in the building itself.

24:34.31
Geoff
Well, it’s an underground tunnel and and ah an underground tunnel entrance. There. It is okay, sorry. You know I’m looking at this this place up on Google Maps did the harmons basically lose its entire sigh. Um, last I was in Utah that harmons had a big old sign on the wall right there and I guess that’s been subsumed by the the building.

24:50.53
Devin
Yeah, yeah, the sign is ah must be gone. Yeah, but they yeah the they had a ah yard this this building has been planned since Har peace before harmons was built.

25:05.34
Geoff
Yeah I imagine.

25:07.65
Devin
And it’s just a question of when it would get built and what it would finally look like and I think yeah on every on every facet that I would judge it. It’s a success. Ah the building. The entire building looks great. It’s a dramatic thing. The church stands Out. It’s clearly a church building there. I Think it’s just great and of course it’s very functional, very functional. It’s just going to serve a tremendous purpose and be ah, a great blessing to a lot of people and um, you know a lot of folks have been. You know, suggesting the church should invest more in churches downtown to to kind of shine that. Ah, light on the Hill and to demonstrate a commitment towards down there and this a nice step in that direction. It’s just great on every every count.

25:52.16
Geoff
You know it’s funny. You bring that up because there’s an article I almost put in for this week but I don’t know if we’d want to talk much about it but over it by common consent Kevin Barney wrote an article kind of about he called it like basically getting to church and I know you’re not speaking directly about. How accessible a church building is but when you think about that like most of our most of our meeting houses at least in North America are in suburban areas often just neighborhoods overwhelmingly accessible primarily by car. Ah and his whole point was wondering like should we be doing more or. Thinking more proactively about where we put our buildings. He shared some stories in it about how I think like the sister missionaries wanted to see if somebody could pick up an investigator or somebody along those lines and it just kind of never went new anywhere cause everyone’s just like it’s an incon. It’s an inconvenience for people to drive out of their way and pick up investigators and do this and that that wouldn’t be an issue if you had buildings that were more easily accessible. For people who don’t necessarily have a car this downtown meeting house is an example I mean Devin I think it’s pretty darn close to where he used to live I believe right in downtown right? and that would have been your meeting house. Yeah.

26:52.70
Devin
Yeah, yeah, it was a short walk and you know to put this into perspective I think that within a half mile radius let’s call that you know a short walk I think there are 5 to 8000 people that live within that distance of this chapel. You know it’s it’s.

27:08.43
Geoff
Yeah.

27:12.42
Devin
Very densely populated because of all the tall apartment. You know, skyscrapers and stuff that our apartments. Yes.

27:16.90
Geoff
Yeah, and yes, all the the skyscrapers of Salt Lake city we could we I mean we could do a little more with the business building skyline of Salt Lake folks let’s be honest I mean that Wells Fargo building has been the go to for too long now we got to we gotta think harder I do love urban meeting houses though.

27:26.42
Devin
Yeah.

27:35.33
Geoff
I think it’s ah it’s a cool thing. It’s obviously not the first time the church has done something like this. They haven’t I’m surprised theren’t been much fanfare but there’s a new meeting house in my neck of the woods in crystal city in Virginia a little bit different the church they didn’t make it so the church part of it kind of stuck out like this one does. But. They built a large condominium tower in crystal city and then the bottom 2 floors are a stake center with all the trappings of a stake center. This is not something the church you know is new to the church other the multi-use version or of course abroad you find meeting houses that are built in. Ah. All kinds of different ways I remember 1 in 1 city on my mission and over in it was in cornia it was great. It was like a 4 story urban church building that we had different levels with all the different stuff and on the very top floor. You know in Spain but instead of a basketball court. They had a soccer court on the top level with like skylights and stuff. It was great. It was so cool to see that kind of investment. Making sense for the people you know where they were and my mission made it almost a novelty in the areas when there’d actually be like a freestanding meeting house on the edge of the city or something like that that you had to mostly drive to get to or take a bus. It was kind of kind of fun. So I’m glad you had that that personal experience with that Devin that’s cool.

28:39.91
Devin
Yeah I was thrilled to have that chance and it came just so totally randomly like it was the last thing I did before I headed back to the airport and totally random. Very fun.

28:51.74
Geoff
All right handful of temple things I’m going to throw at you real fast the rio de janeiro temple finally dedicated the church’s eighth temple in Brazil this was slated to be dedicated over two years ago it’s open house was coincided right with a shutdown around the covid pandemic and so it. Sat for a long time and nobody knew when they were gonna pick it up in the in the in between I believe we dedicated temples and I think the durban ones still came just before covid got right there but then we’ve had you know pocatello a few other ones in between but it’s finally there elder gary e stevenson traveled down to rio de Janeiro. And dedicated this beautiful building that has been just like just lit and not functional for 2 whole years and so that’s great. They did it. It’s wonderful. Wonderful for rio de janeiro to have its own temple I mean their closest one was it’s almost shocking rio did not have a temple up to this point given how large the city is in a Brazil context. So. Wonderful, wonderful news for them. Another news the yugo guam temple already gonna have its open house. They are not missing around with this one. It’s a much smaller building simpler design. It’s not using prefabricated panels like the what we’re but we’re kind of pioneering in the hell in a Montana Temple which is a whole new construction method. That’s gonna be really cool to watch but still they only started building this temple in golly oh guys it was twenty nineteen all right? So they broke around quickly but it was 2019 so it’s been almost the three years. Which is the typical turnaround time but that went by much faster than it seemed but they still they made haste small building right? It’s gonna be 1 of the smallest ones in the church. It’s nearly sixty nine hundred Square feet that’s very tiny that’s like down there with colonial Juarez in terms of size. But. There’s ass stake in Guam but it’s very isolated, wonderful to serve the saints there and so they are going to be having the open house from last week Wednesday may fourth through Saturday may fourteenth so not sorry out here in Dc where it’s like the open house is now like a part of life. That’s never going to end. It’s just funny to see an open house. That’s like two weeks long like they normally are right um. And then they’re going to dedicate it on May Twenty second by David a benner. So. That’s great news for the saints of guam happy happy news for them. Another quick update for you Devin and if you have anything to say about these you you you just chime in. Okay, we held the ground breaking.

31:04.20
Devin
Okay, thank you I will I’m not I’m not shy. You know me.

31:13.25
Geoff
For the temple in Farmington New Mexico which will be the second temple in New Mexico I believe it’s going to be about Twenty Five Thousand Square feet it’s kind of this newer generation of modestly sized temples but with a new design president Nelson announced it in April Twenty Twenty one when he announced twenty odd temples in that conference one that. Blew everyone away and you’ve seen a lot of the temples announced in that batch many of them are following what appears to be a similar floor plan so they broke ground on it usually roughly 3 years or so so keep an eye out for some time in 2025 and this temple in. Northwest New Mexico you’re not quite 4 corners but Farmington’s kind of up there close to Colorado and much farther west will ah receive its own temple which is super great news for them and lastly since I mentioned the dc temple. Yes, just some more fun for the church to publicize senators and other dignitaries.

31:58.30
Devin
Yeah, of.

32:07.30
Geoff
You know, important people who have toured the temple who are not everyday folks? No the important people have toured the temple everyone the politicos. Oh but there’s there’s Mitt Romney there’s Geoff Flake lots of current and former senators some of which are not members of our church of course I believe I see Amy Klobuchar right there there’s a picture with. Justice Neil gorsuch of the supreme court. He’s hanging out. Don’t know who else is in the picture with him but they put him up in the header image. So you know they’re loving all the all the fancy people who were coming and now the temple is open as of the other week to everyone else. We’re going this Saturday I’m excited to finally take my kids to it that’ll be fun.

32:44.33
Devin
That the DCTemple is my favorite. It’s my favorite temple. Yeah.

32:45.96
Geoff
But you know supreme court justice at the temple folks as well as as well. It should be I’m excited to see what if anything’s changed on the inside. 1 thing I looked at the based on the photos and I’ll have to verify this because it’s been so long stub been in there. When used to walk in. You know you go to the recommend desk and you walk on that kind of sky bridge that goes into the main building and when you get right into the main building there. There used to be a very large mural spanning that entire lobby and from what I’ve seen in the pictures of the updates. There’s still artwork there but it looks like.

33:01.87
Devin
Even.

33:10.36
Devin
Um.

33:16.36
Geoff
It’s smaller that Artworkton used to be because um if I remember it was a very large mural I think it was that whole.

33:22.38
Devin
Wasn’t that the mural of the second coming I think that was the I think it was that mirror it was the original of that second coming mural.

33:28.73
Geoff
And and yeah and so I’m so I’m sorry I’m doing this kind of on the fly where chatting I’m trying to see if I can remember because I’ve seen the new pictures of it which now yeah I think they totally changed it right? because now if you look at it. Um, you might know Devin let me see if I can open an image and I can’t share it to you? never.

33:38.44
Devin
And in.

33:46.38
Devin
Yeah.

33:47.62
Geoff
Just search for it Anyway, now it’s so was’s definitely a more modern picture of of the savior. But it’s very much more just right there in the in the middle of it. Let me see Yeah what? Yeah yeah, they got? Yeah yeah, it’s the old. Yeah yeah, no sorry I’m thinking out loud a lot right now.

33:54.66
Devin
Yeah, my favorite thing about that temple um, be.

34:06.84
Devin
That’s all right? You’re left. But yeah, my favorite thing was that ah the design of the endowment rooms was such that they didn’t have an aisle down the middle they had aisles on the sides and so.

34:06.88
Geoff
Continue. What’s what’s your favorite thing about.

34:15.98
Geoff
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:20.56
Devin
Ah, everyone would race to sit next to their spouse because there were about 8 seats in every endowment room where you could sit next to your spouse and they wouldn’t have you at least when I was going to that temple you wouldn’t. Be queued up in the same formal sense that you were in other temples. They would just sort of let you wander in and then you could go sit next to your spouse in one of those 8 seats that was next to the women or if you’re a guy like I was so.

34:44.54
Geoff
Yep, oh here we go David Noy at the Soli Tribune thank you David hold on. There’s actually a story about this I’m not imagining things and I do love that I’ve love going to sessions the city writers of my wife. It’s it’s one of the best things.

34:54.13
Devin
And yeah.

35:00.17
Geoff
So um, the prominent painting has been removed from the newly renovated temple and is being quote refurbished so it says longtime patrons will notice some you know subtle changes but that big mural titled the last judgment. That’s what it was second coming and that has a big old mural right? there? Um, let’s see the and.

35:12.69
Devin
Ah.

35:18.94
Geoff
Like the article it says some wonder what happened to it especially given the drama around Salt Lake temple the mantai-temp for example it’s true. It’s been taken out but it will be. They say a church spokesperson a proper placement will be determined at a future time first.

35:33.81
Devin
Yeah.

35:35.77
Geoff
So they often change it all I hope they bring it back. That’s a pretty notable work and it looks like they could. They’ve got a very large mural there now which is it’s Dan Wilson’s his return, nice painting. It’s flanked by some plants which I assume could be moved if they needed to put the mural back in place. So.

35:52.92
Devin
Um, yeah f.

35:55.60
Geoff
I’m glad there’s a story about that. So it’s being referred I hope that means they bring it back or hope they don’t I mean it it is you know the last judgment it. Maybe it’s less friendly for an open house like they want the open house to have this nice just kind of pleasant picture of the savior and not 1 of like people cowering in repentance before the return.

36:05.80
Devin
Yes.

36:12.75
Devin
Yeah.

36:14.36
Geoff
That okay I’ll keep an eye on that if they replace it like after the open house and this is specifically a pr move that fascinates me alone for a Pr perspective. So.

36:17.83
Devin
Yeah, well I’d also love to look at that mural again with my latter day wokeness. Ah you know having seen that thirty years ago um I’m not sure that I was looking at it with the same lens I would look at it today and it would not be you know, given when it was created. It would not be hard to imagine that it had ah racial or other um tones that had sort of.

36:38.28
Geoff
I Yeah’m I’m sure too. Yeah.

36:54.50
Devin
Worked in so it’d be interesting to see what it what it? What it looks like when it comes back. You know if they’ve changed some of the ah details in the photo in the process of of refurbishing it in terms of like who’s repenting and who’s.

36:58.61
Geoff
So kept kept up.

37:11.13
Devin
Who’s celebrating the return of the savior.

37:12.54
Geoff
Who who among you is repent who’s actually repenting. Yeah so curious, interesting stuff. Yeah there it is well I hope they bring it back. There was also you kind of like this one Dev and I’ll throw to you some temple dedication milestones for the brethren kind of a cool kind of a cool little cool.

37:15.25
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah now. Okay, oh yes, so this was an interesting story and I.

37:31.15
Geoff
Actually.

37:32.78
Devin
Appreciate toss of that one to me. But yeah president Nelson has of course you know controls the schedule of of who conducts the dedications for all the temples and every one of the 15 brethren have now dedicated a temple just in the years since he. Was called to be the prophet and and so it’s obviously a deliberate move that he’s made to rotate that among the brother in that way and ah, you know if you’re a young apostle. That’s really kind of a neat deal. Ah you know some apostles don’t live to be especially long and don’t serve. You know we think of the ones that. Do serve for 30 or 40 years some served for 6 right? and and traditionally wouldn’t have had that opportunity and so it’s great that he’s he’s doing that to make sure they all get that special opportunity.

38:24.79
Geoff
It’s actually yeah and and I think that church had mentioned this before but it’s interesting to note that president Nelson himself then has one of the lowest rates of ah temple dedications during their tenure. There have been. 11 temples dedicated during his tenure and 3 their upcoming in the next two months and president Nelson has only done 2 of them. He did concepio in Chile and October Twenty eighteen and then of course the rome italy temple which was a big like who else given the effort we went to in Rome who else was Goingnna do that one. He hasn’t done one since then that’s it.

38:50.50
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s interesting because you know he’s so healthy you and I’ve talked about this before I mean he looks like he’s constantly ready to go run a 10 k and ah.

38:57.21
Geoff
And yeah, yeah.

39:07.12
Devin
You know could probably run circles around most of the 15 brother and and so he does just beg the question. How long are we going to have him in the saddle because it could be a long time based on his apparent health.

39:16.46
Geoff
Here is my thought on the matter and this is purely speculative I think he’s got to be around until they fix up Salt Lake until that’s done I think he has to be preserved to see that project that he started come to completion.

39:30.99
Devin
Um.

39:32.65
Geoff
And now that’s been delayed even further though, that’s the issue right now. The salt they think it won’t be till what now it’s like 2024 Twenty Twenty five something even longer they delayed it even further. So I’m going to be a little ah be a little optimistic here and think it’ll have to be at least that long.

39:40.59
Devin
Yeah.

39:49.23
Geoff
Also noted I didn’t realize this usually the church announced as well in advance once they’ve announced the dedication which one of the brethren is going to do the dedication. That’s pretty much custom right? Ah and all scheduled once have announced other people they have not announced who is going to dedicate the washington d c temple still. And I think many assume it will be president Nelson but I find it curious and this is cool. The church. This isn’t like an a random blog. This is the church news actually saying that they’re noting that with the possible exception of the Washington Dc temple dedication it still does not have an assigned leader but everything else has been doled out to the others. So. Kind of interesting for them to actually note that and I’m curious. Why they have not said so I think that’s also very interesting and also it’s worth noting president Gordon Behkley ah did 81.8 percent of the temple dedications during his presidency.

40:31.14
Devin
Nothing.

40:42.70
Geoff
Which is amazing because so many of those were the mini temples that he announced and they and we just churned out like fifty in a year and so president Hinkley must have just been jets setting all over the world cranking out dedication. Yeah, for most of these so fascinating stuff fascinating stuff. Man.

40:48.89
Devin
Yeah, yeah in his ninety s in his ninety s now. Yeah amazing.

41:00.14
Geoff
Okay, all right, all right? All right? All right? Let’s ah, go talk about the Manacold Mormon This was a case that’s come up a bit more in the press. Because of under the banner of heaven being out right now on fx Hulu right? because it’s another. You’d think you were the story of the Manacle Mormon and this is to be clear if you’re listening with children. This would be a time to turn it down or pause or return later. But.

41:28.99
Devin
A.

41:32.41
Geoff
Was also known as the mormon sex and chains case. This was never brought to court because of extradition issues and things like that. But there’s american woman Joyce Mckinney who is in England and allegedly kidnapped a missionary Kirk Anderson from like the steps of a meeting house in the Uk and then chained him to a bed. And raped him repeatedly and that’s what this so thing is then they fled to to the she was an american but she fled to the United States on a falsified passport of all things but was never able to be brought to trial for that exact case her history is bizarre. Even beyond that she learned she made clones of her pet bull in South Korea she was later charged with plotting to have a teenager break into a house to raise funds for a prosthetic leg for a horse and I think I would think this is made up but like I check the citation. Um.

42:27.20
Devin
Hey.

42:30.23
Geoff
She sued arol Morris for making a documentary about her and and in 22019 in the San Fernando Valley in California she also killed a hol ninety one year old holocaust survivor in a hit and run crash in the valley this this is a a checkered history if there ever there was one.

42:46.80
Devin
Wow wow.

42:49.39
Geoff
So so anyway so they apparently posed as an investigator to mormonism allegedly using a fake can’t gun and chloroform and then three days later after after what they did to the missionary. Allegedly I guess I still legally have to say I don’t know. But um, they freed him and there was a report to police and all kinds of things. So we’re not going to tell you the whole story. Want to know why because the fine people of the woke liberal media are going to do it for us folks. Um, that’s right now we get to see the the Manico Mormon case will be a movie called center verse v saints. Like Batman V Superman and that went great. So what could go wrong with this title center v saints dawn of justice it’s going to star freddie hymore of the good doctor or you might have known him when he’s a kid when he was like finding Neverland and Maise Williams from game of thrones. It will be directed by Tim Ki Kirkby who also did fleabag. And veep. Um the the press release is okay, the press release says center v saints takes us on a riotous journey and we were immediately captivated by Jill Hopps witty script which brings this incredible true story to life. Why is everyone like. Up about this I mean I get that it’s a crazy story but the way this is written. It’s like what a wacky zany good time. This is go to be folks wait till you hear the the witty di ah it’s like well there was ah a man who was sexually assaulted during all of this people I don’t know why we’re you know, having a good time with this. So ah.

44:09.35
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

44:15.59
Devin
Ah, yeah, yeah.

44:22.62
Geoff
Yeah, apparently that’s gonna be a. It’s gonna be a film I guess I didn’t specify whether it’s it says feature film it. It did not specify whether it’s going to be actually released in cinemas or in this day and age straight to streaming or anything like that, especially given who’s directing it has primarily Hbo type credits. So anyway, that’s gonna.

44:33.48
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

44:41.78
Geoff
Coming to a place near us at some point in the future and we can have another fun weird period of our history thrown out across your home screen of potentially dubious quality. Yay yay.

44:49.51
Devin
Yeah, yes, the I think the well it’ll be interesting is interesting to see how we’re portrayed in that you know I’ve been watching under the banner of heaven and um, yeah I imagine you have too but it’s. It has been interesting to me. Ah that it hasn’t bothered me much because it is pure fiction right? Ah, the.

45:21.22
Geoff
Well even the main characters fiction. They made up the investigator. Not a real person.

45:26.34
Devin
Yeah I mean it it every aspect of it just feels made up. It doesn’t it that there’s no resonance right? I was raised in ut I was alive when this happened and it doesn’t resonate at all. You know some of the storytelling around. Ah, you know Mark Hoffman for instance that resonated with me right? so that they got some of those details right? Yeah yeah, so ah, this one is just it’s just kind of fun to watch because it’s not about us.

45:46.59
Geoff
Yeah, oh yeah, and we and we had murder. Um, ah and we had murder among the mormons last year see we’re just we’re all over it right now.

46:01.79
Geoff
Does It also have just like wacky witty Dialogue Rapid Fire delivery all kind all kinds of fun stuff. It’s just a this is the fun story of of you know murder and questionstering one’s faith. So.

46:02.37
Devin
It just pretends to be about us. No no, no, no, no, no, it’s it’s it’s melodrama about a fictitious church. That’s all it is ah. You know and they use some Mormon phrases but it’s you know there’s yeah, it’s just shocking how little of it really resonates and that’s what there was this op Ed in the wall Street Journal and I confess I’m not a huge.

46:31.66
Geoff
Yeah.

46:35.81
Devin
Fan of what usually gets posted in the op ed pages of the wall street journal. but but Darrell Austin a guy from Utah wrote and I thought it was interesting that he said exactly what I feel but he said you know? ah. You know he he quoted ah an ovs historian historian who said that none of the mormon scholars I was sitting with in the premiere all of whom know full. Well how to apply an open critical gaze to our own culture and tradition recognized ourselves or our people in the show. That’s just it it’s it just as you watch it. It’s kind of entertaining. It’s an interesting story but it’s it just feels so far removed from what we know about our own church that it just doesn’t have that connection to authenticity. It’s just fiction. You’re just watching it. Fictitious show about a fictitious church.

47:29.72
Geoff
I Guess the main thing you have to wonder though is for the Non-laterday saints who are watching it. Do they appreciate the nuance and and the distinction that it is a fictitious portrayal of a fictitious because I’ve got colleagues who have seen it.

47:38.63
Devin
Yeah I yeah. Yeah.

47:46.00
Geoff
And they’re like you guys do this and I’m like no no and like and this is exactly what the church didn’t like um you know nineteen years ago when the book came out and now instead it puts us on the defensive a bit and we have to field questions. It’s like no no, no, no, that’s that’s not quite a thing. No.

47:52.45
Devin
Yeah.

47:59.57
Devin
But I think I read the book I read the book and at least the the book you felt like it was ah about the church and and let’s be clear about you know the the fundamentalist groups. Adjacent to the church who were practicing polygamy and some of the crap that was going on and that’s part of the problem with the the new show is that it it essentially Assigns these people who are in fact, not members of the church in good standing as if and treats them as if they were in fact.

48:31.84
Geoff
Yeah.

48:34.17
Devin
Members in good standing and just members of the faith and they weren’t they were they were fundamentalists adjacent to the church and and there’s a huge difference as any of us in the church know.

48:44.83
Geoff
I yeah like Mckay coppins exactly exactly I hear you well was it we it’s fine I guess we’ll be covering under the banner of heaven until it concludes. You know it’s come up every week. It’s kind of fine. There’s always something all right.

48:50.55
Devin
Yes, yep.

48:57.63
Devin
Yeah I’m sorry am something m.

49:03.52
Geoff
Here I love you know I love me some ah demographic analysis over at our friend at times and seasons. Fun little article from stephenc it said the future of the church. This is part 5 of a series when will there be more african wards than North American Wards and so if you’ve. Ah, somehow missed it. The churches growing very quickly in Africa compared to anywhere else in the world and so he runs a projection ah by starting point in 2010 driving the percentage he’s doing eleven year increments based on well he says he says with enough elber gree I wish I could get a more precise estimatetriment. Growth rate has extrapolated thus far as undoubtedly, an oversimplification. You know he’s trying to work all these different things into it to to project a growth rate across different regions of the world and the question really is like will Africa surpass North America North America has the most congregations. Anywhere in the church and will it surpass it and he’s got it somewhere around nipping up on 2050 maybe a little bit before that according to his projection which again is just a projection right? Interesting to think about ah think about that.

50:07.51
Devin
That.

50:15.47
Geoff
Ah, in general really when you get to it like how would that be. It’s pretty far. It’s pretty far in the future at the same time. It’s 28 years in the future which isn’t crazy far in the future I mean you know what was what was twenty eight years ago and 9094 friends was premiering doesn’t so like it was that long ago. Yeah right? So um.

50:21.96
Devin
Yeah.

50:28.80
Devin
Yeah, yeah.

50:33.53
Geoff
I think that’s kind of interesting and he notes he says it’s not written anywhere that the church’s institutions have to be based in the United States I mean they are kind of like they are because they are but he says like maybe in the next half century. We’ll be broadcasting general conference from ara which is the capital of Ghana. Additionally, it may become more difficult to justify subsidizing. Non-technical.

50:40.95
Devin
If it.

50:53.12
Geoff
Applied education at Byu for a well-off minority of us church members when the population center is shifting elsewhere. That’s an interesting comment honestly and he says he suspects the drive to internationalize the pathways program is part of an anticipation in these shifts but that’s of course just conjecture on his part.

51:12.26
Devin
Now.

51:12.95
Geoff
Lot of conjecture here to go around but it does bring up an interesting point where if the growth rate in North America and elsewhere stays kind of level and doesn’t really it grows but not increasing event. We’ve been decreasing on growth rates whereas in Africa just keeps going up and up and up I have to wonder what that would be like though.

51:27.50
Devin
Yeah, they’re more. That’s yeah, it’s so far into the future I’m a little skeptical of his projections even he explains so there are a lot of good reasons why the growth rate we’re seeing now which he just simply Assumes continues will slow but it’s.

51:33.55
Geoff
Sure.

51:46.19
Devin
Easy to believe that on the schedule he predicts the number of congregations in Africa will exceed those in South America and he’s saying that could happen by 2030 or so um.

51:56.20
Geoff
Yeah.

52:02.87
Devin
You know whether that happens in 2030 or 2040. It’s clear. It’s headed in that direction and and that’s much more likely to occur. Um, one of the interesting observations is that the growth in South America has flattened to ah. According to his data essentially zero and that there is no growth in South America over the last eleven years and so that’s an interesting thing when their growth is so rapid in in Africa. So anyway, it’s it’ll be fascinating to see what this picture. In fact, looks like in 2030 2040 and 2050.

52:22.70
Geoff
Yeah.

52:37.58
Geoff
And I am and I am curious about that if you look at the church’s website official reported members on the rolls in South America is four point Two million members in South America what is unclear to me actually let suit are they including Mexico no and that is like Geographic South america okay that’s not Latin America that is South America

52:40.40
Devin
And be very cool.

52:52.20
Devin
And.

52:56.59
Geoff
So cutting off at Columbia right? Pan Panama’s not part of this Panama is considered North America I’m assuming based on this. Let’s double check. Yes, yes, it is North America has nine point Five Million members and South America has 4000000 members ah Africa for all the growth which is still wonderful. Not even a million members in all of Africa 736000 members across the entire continent across 60 odd countries right? So it’s got its it has been growing much faster and that’s the 1 thing you can see when you see the growth rate where it’s everyone else has kind of gone up. Yeah I mean you can.

53:21.53
Devin
And.

53:32.99
Geoff
I’m looking this total church membership the way it’s kind of plateauing for most of them Europe’s probably going down. Yep europe’s going down Europe has half a million members um the trend line is is quite real in Africa so it’ll be interesting to watch that Oceana how’s that doing fight.

53:44.77
Devin
Now.

53:50.18
Geoff
It’s fun to see this by a region. Yeah so africa does have the second largest by region. It’s got north America South America then Africa Africa’s got oh no sorry I think Asia might have more sorry about that then Asia one point two nine one point two five million members then Africa then like Oceana and then little europe.

54:09.98
Devin
Yeah i’ interesting see if anything changes in Asia um I wouldn’t predict it based on my experience in in Asia but ah.

54:10.14
Geoff
Ah, love you Europe you and the faithful saints who have no converts coming your way bless you all wonderful people.

54:28.55
Devin
Yeah, it’s an an interesting question. There are a lot of people in Asia and.

54:30.77
Geoff
Well well and now that bong bong Marcos Jr is going to be the president of the Philippines there’s no stopping us all bets are off. It’s going to be great.

54:34.88
Devin
Yes, ah ah ah yeah ah that good point Philippines has been a fertile territory for us. Interesting to say? Yeah but it’s.

54:45.75
Geoff
Just a little bit and I’ll forget and I don’t think it’s by chance. It’s ah it’s the only catholic country you know in and Asia so of course we have more fertile ground in a Christian nation than elsewhere makes sense.

54:52.49
Devin
Course of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, me him? Well ah this is fabulous if let me just ah, pull up um, something that you you caught and I found. Fascinating as I think you did too if you don’t mind I’ll jump into this Hank Smith piece that you that you flagged, but ah, you know Hank Smith Byu professor retweeted a white supremist. Ah.

55:12.38
Geoff
Oh okay, yeah, go for it. Go for it.

55:30.83
Devin
Named Dan Mckinley and then after you know having the error called to his attention. He he deleted or unretweeted the tweet. Um, but the article here by in by common consent is a fascinating.

55:31.81
Geoff
Whoopsy.

55:50.77
Devin
And deciphering of the white supremacist sort of doctrine Faith Pseudoscience et Cetera E Cetera and. It is just fascinating to sort of listen to it deciphered or to read it. So I Really do recommend this by common consent article to everyone and because you kind of go Oh when you hear that that’s what that means? oh. Oh yeah, it was just a constant one of those for me and yeah.

56:25.27
Geoff
Oh it’s nuts like when you go down the deep end I mean I’m glad that I’m glad that Hank Smith retracted 1 for 1 thing. It’s like it’s a less novi. Don’t retweet Retweet something because 1 little couple words in it sound good and it makes sense.

56:37.61
Devin
Yeah.

56:41.22
Geoff
Take the time to make sure you’re not ret retreating retweeting someone who believes that mormonism is the inheritance of the ancient abrahamic fertility cult the celtic christianity of antiquity and the american enlightenment. It is also a merger of the thirteenth bloodline the merovingians which is ah a white european thing.

56:53.10
Devin
Aft.

56:59.27
Geoff
With lost Amerindian esotericism. Ah, ah.

57:02.75
Devin
Yeah, which is almost indecipherable but sounds vaguely flattering to Mormons and then you sort of break it down and understand the nonsense that’s baked into this. That’s clearly an overtly white supremac. You just go Holy so.

57:20.39
Geoff
Yeah, it’s pretty crazy I mean like it like that. Yeah I mean it’s essentially it’s it’s talking about pure blood all the time that we’re we are inheriting that slamming other faiths like people in Eastern religions. For example, like we look to them for truth. Um.

57:21.47
Devin
Wow! yeah.

57:40.10
Geoff
Talking about Joseph Smith was a direct blood descendant of Jesus Christ yeah his primordial Irish Ancestors practiced a form of christianity that was destroyed by rome he had the divine birthright to the primeval priesthood. There’s some weird stuff out there. My friend.

57:44.70
Devin
Yeah, just.

57:56.77
Devin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:58.98
Geoff
Makes makes Denver snuffer look normal. This is great stuff. Good to know well I’ve only got one but and well first of all, no trek essentials Devin will you be going on trek will you be going on Trek this year. No, you haven’t no one’s a fan of Trek Devin

58:09.40
Devin
I have been such a fan of Trek. Um yes I I have been a fan of Trek since I didn’t go when I was a teenager I remember my best friend 1 of my best friends went on trek ah probably the guy was hanging out with the most that summer. He went on track and for some reason I couldn’t go and I don’t remember now what it was travel or something and I could go oh no I was um, he was 14 and I was 13 and so I wasn’t invited and didn’t get to go and just the way things worked out I never got to go as a teenager missed it. But I remember he got trouble and got kicked off. Ah, got kicked off Trek um because he couldn’t handle it I think you know they did at that that year they gave him some unholy amount of time for teenagers to go pray I mean they give him like hours. Go pray for hours alone wander in the wilderness so he set off walking to the nearest convenience store which is like seven miles away he said okay I you’re gonna give me 6 hours I’m gonna go get a soda and ah they caught him and and set him home. Um, but yeah.

59:19.21
Geoff
And they sent him home. They didn’t let him stick around. Lets had oh my gosh.

59:23.78
Devin
Yeah, which of course you know is like the perfect way to reward him for wandering off. Um, but but yeah I desperately I missed out on that so much that it it haunted me for years and. So I Finally got to go a couple of times when I was in the state presidency years ago and ah, great experiences really and truly great experiences. I Loved it. But.

59:49.60
Geoff
I don’t get as I say I don’t get the history of of trek like this was not a thing in Southern California I do not know anyone who did anything anywhere close to this but now I see it. It’s happening in my stake here like I see kids doing it elsewhere. So.

59:56.37
Devin
Yeah.

01:00:05.66
Devin
Yeah.

01:00:08.33
Geoff
I know it might have been a Utah thing for a long time. Was there some weird pivot point when we decided to encourage saints outside of the intermountain west to also do these and was that in more recent history or not.

01:00:15.97
Devin
Yeah I have no idea if there’s any data on you know, firming up testimonies getting more kids on Missions I have no idea if there’s any data on any of that. Um, and no idea.

01:00:29.37
Geoff
Yeah, well I mean I’m.

01:00:31.50
Devin
And so I don’t know if work. Yeah I don’t know if it you know if a prophet somewhere along the line said everybody ought to do this and but but I I rather loved the loved the experience that I had as an adult supporting kids doing it and I Think. You know every every steak does it differently right? And so I went with with a steak that had a really low bar like let’s make this relatively speaking a safe experience. We’re go to take Nurses. We’re going to make sure everybody’s got plenty of water.

01:00:50.31
Geoff
The.

01:01:07.43
Devin
And we’re gonna feed him enough that no one you know we’re not gonna it’s not gonna be feasts. It’s going to be dinner but no one is gonna pass out because they didn’t get enough calories that sort of philosophy and so it was it was a really fun experience for most of the kids with that. A meaningful spiritual encounter that there’s some things that still get exaggerated. Um, you know the the I thought the the group I went with did a pretty good job of acknowledging that like when the the the story of the men leaving. To go to the mormon battalion was not portrayed as a burden or an obligation. You know sometimes it’s portrayed by some stakes as being sort of ah I think that the you know the army came and stole the men or something against their better judgment. Of course the church. Brethren were thrilled that there was an opportunity to go earn some cash that they desperately needed. They did you know to March to San Diego and it was a huge blessing to the church and so in in my stake that was portrayed reasonably well and ah but the yeah.

01:02:11.88
Geoff
Yeah, yeah.

01:02:22.50
Devin
It was kind of fun to watch the girls pulling the handcarts themselves up a hill and to see how moved they were by the experience and and then to see the boys come back and help them finish. It was really a moving experience. So it can be a really powerful thing and but of course we’re not here to talk about any of that Today. We’re here to talk about funny clothes.

01:02:44.77
Geoff
Well no I mean I know Devin you’ve no devin. You’ve humbled me because I’m I’m not a believer in Trek probably cause I didn’t do it growing up and it’s always been a peculiarity for me. But here you are with worthwhile experiences and many other people have them.

01:02:52.77
Devin
Yeah, yeah, like I Mean. Ah, yeah, but I I have to admit, there’s a part of me that’s a little offended by these trek essentials that Desre book is now selling. Ah.

01:03:03.20
Geoff
And now I’m terrified I’ll somehow get involved in it now that I’m in the bishopric I’m trying to avoid it. Ah and.

01:03:15.20
Geoff
Well of course because it’s ah this is just an article Lds living. This is all this is all the church industrial complex all working together. It’s lds living owned by the church. All all they’re saying 12 trek essentials. They’re not giving you tips get the most from your journey. It’s literally just.

01:03:21.33
Devin
Yeah.

01:03:33.89
Geoff
Links to items you can buy from de a book a trek apron a check blouse trek bloomers a trek frontier shirt a Trek Pioneer shirt there’s there’s no tips on like how to get through Trek or anything like that. It’s just saying hey you can buy this pioneer shirt for $25 then you can buy a duck fest.

01:03:38.63
Devin
FA.

01:03:48.57
Devin
Yeah.

01:03:52.22
Geoff
For $25 and you can just you know your trek satchel your faith in every footstep band down it. You can also buy trek the movie which I can’t believe they still sell because the poster of the trek. The movie says it’s a mormon thing.

01:04:00.26
Devin
And don’t forget your trek suspenders Hey your.

01:04:10.79
Geoff
How could they? How can this even be how have they not demanded the producers of said film change their ways. Ah boy when did that come out I remember I watched Trek the movie once I think someone actually was nice enough to send it to someone sent me a screener.

01:04:13.26
Devin
At.

01:04:20.65
Devin
Yeah.

01:04:29.10
Geoff
Which was fun. But anyway you can buy truck stuff and Lda living and at tall are going to help you to do that? Okay, fine.

01:04:31.15
Devin
Ah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this this just reminds me of church for Rich Mormons That’s I Guess what bothers me a little bit because you know I The stake I was in where we went a couple of times we went. We went with a rich steak. Um.

01:04:52.39
Geoff
That’s.

01:04:57.90
Devin
And and we were sort of a low and lower income innerity stake and you know both stakeaks did a really good job of making sure that you were using hand handdown you know, hand me down kind of things that you you know if you bought anything you bought it at D and.

01:05:10.30
Geoff
Yeah.

01:05:16.64
Devin
This was a low budgetd affair put no economic pressure on people. This was about a spiritual journey and the idea that you might spend one hundred or one hundred and fifty bucks to outfit someone or $200 if you got changes of clothes. Um, it kind of bugs me and.

01:05:32.29
Geoff
Well yeah, no man.

01:05:34.59
Devin
It defends my it offends my sense of ah sensibilities about trying to make this an egalitarian experience that is spiritually meaningful to people.

01:05:42.28
Geoff
Well look Devin you’re gonna have the good photo op or not you can’t have kids just standing there. You know they can’t yeah that was gonna be optimistic I’m sure their lands end shirts. Yes, exactly if it would have been me. It would have been like wearinging my rage against the machine t-shirt.

01:05:47.45
Devin
In their lands end shirts their lands end state. Yeah yeah, yeah, anyway.

01:06:01.26
Geoff
Ah, back in the 90 s I guess something like that. So anyway, that’s fun last little bit of news here for the week some interesting news that came through the apparatus of Salt Lake city updates on military temple garments if you haven’t been familiar with this? Um, maybe you have so you know garments are white. That’s. The idea when you buy them from a distribution center. But for many years members of the military have been able to buy specially produced garments that essentially match the colors of their uniforms because if you’re wearing your combat fatigues and who for many are there is their everyday wear unless the ah. I don’t know how the ruleouts going for the army’s replacement for their actual like office uniform which is a cool idea but usually it’s a olive greenish t-shirt you see underneath there in many cases they designed this so you could get garments that were that color fabric that were marked up appropriately as garments. So the members of the military were not wearing a garment layer underneath. All of that which would be 3 layers of clothing day in and day out. Of course the 1 thing to bear in mind is it’s not uncommon for them to take off their their coat and be just in their the brown top while they’re doing things but it’s up to them to figure out but the church has offered this to members of the military for many years they’re going to be discontinuing that though and instead allowing it to better meet the needs of uniform requirements as they say the church will now provide undergarment marking services free of charge through behive clothing the release doesn’t go into detail about. Like what that means does that mean you just kind of buy your stuff that you have and you have to like send it out to behive clothing and it comes back and that if that’s the case. What do you do when you don’t have your under your military undergarments in the first place. Not quite sure but they will they will take care of that free of charge through behive clothing I’m sure if one can sort it out. It’s available to all branches of the us military. US military people that’s sorry I’d just like that. It’s like you know what? if you’re serving in the ukrainian military tough tough caboodle but okay, it does say other equivalent organizations outside the us. So I don’t know why they don’t just say.

01:07:54.64
Devin
Ah, tough. Yeah.

01:08:07.20
Geoff
Military branches worldwide this kind of goes back to the whole you know American Centric nature of things right? firefighters and then local county state and federal law enforcement officer officers kind of as needed. So I guess you have to figure out what the process of of that will be what it will entail. And it’s interesting to see this change because it was many years ago. They updated garments themselves where you know garments have markings on them but they changed it to print those on to the garments instead of being stitched and by by updating the entire process to do that with newer garments. It makes a process like this one all that much easier. Because it’s much more of an undertaking to say send in your stuff and we can embroider them more or less as opposed to like it says here marking services free of charge. So. It’s cool. They’re doing this I’m glad they’re supporting people in uniform who need this kind of help. Um. I’m hoping not being one who serves I don’t know if that’s like onerous to have to like take all your stuff and like ship it to the church and get it back as opposed to just going online and ordering garments that are designed for you. I’m not sure but I can understand the church kind of getting out of that game because it gets too hard to keep track of like they say the needs of uniform. Requirements right? Those evolve different services different countries like where do you draw the line and how many specially produced garments. You’re making for different organizations as opposed to just letting them sort of Yeah yeah, yeah, so good for them.

01:09:19.71
Devin
Right? I think it’s cool that they do this I think it’s a it’s a cool solution to me. Obviously it’s it’s it’s extra work compared to just ordering garments but also it allows for members who are. Are going to benefit from this to have much more ah peer. Friendly underwear which which is important and so I think most folks that will use. These will be glad to go to the effort I Hope I Hope That’s how they feel.

01:09:43.97
Geoff
So that’s true too. Yes, yes.

01:09:53.39
Geoff
Well, you know I encourage our ah by the way our email is down right now folks so don’t email message us on Facebook message me on Facebook if you want to talk to me I’m sorting through some stuff but um, that’s that’s a whole story. We lost our Google workspace for the time being. But send me a note if you’re in the military I love to hear about this I should honestly ask some of the people in my ward I serve an award that’s wedged between 2 sizable military installations because you got Quantico on 1 end for belvore on another to say nothing of some other areas now this is Dc ah I have to imagine this could affect some of these individuals I’d be curious to get their feedback. You know what? I’ll look into this Devin I’m going to the movies tomorrow night with an air with an air force guy tomorrow night we’ll find out in my ward. Maybe I’ll send people the news and see what they think about it all right? Good deal. Well folks, it’s been real It’s been fun. This is kind of a longer show than I planned on hour ten where did the time. Go.

01:10:32.17
Devin
I Want to hear I want to hear what you? What do you learn.

01:10:43.77
Devin
Sorry sorry.

01:10:46.58
Geoff
That’s not what you’re saying you’re wondering when this interminable time will be over but now it is now also big shout out to those of you who watch on Youtube hit that hit that if you don’t watch us on Youtube it’s fun. You can see Devin and I talking to 1 under there laughing and you can hit that subscribe button get to hit the notification bell.

01:10:56.73
Devin
And.

01:11:01.90
Geoff
Always get updates on when we put out these videos. We encourage you to do that and of course subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a pleasant lovely review that I’ll read on air and once again, major thank you to our Patreon supporters for supporting the show financially helping us keep it going. It’s very kind. We can’t do it without you guys literally. So you make the difference. So if you want to be part of that go to http://patreon.com/thisweek and mormons and sign up join the team you know through a couple bucks a month every little bit helps we appreciate it very much of course support devin on his my life in alternating current. Whatever it is. You’re doing for.

01:11:33.33
Devin
Ah, ah, our http://solartrailer.com that’s the one.

01:11:37.46
Geoff
That’s the one. This trailer itself is solar, not solar powered. It’s an actual solar trailer. It comes from the sun. Anyway, visit go visit Devin on there and we appreciate all of you taking the time to listen here Devin great to see you my friend I hope we’ll see you soon.

01:11:45.14
Devin
Ah, something like that something like that. Great to be with you. Thank you.

01:11:54.81
Geoff
Take care buddy and thanks for listening to Twitter everyone talk to you next week have a good one boomebye.

 

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