EP 586 – Sports Prosperity Gospel

TWiM_EP586_Sports_Prosperity_Gospel
The DC Temple open house is a success, right? Why are Church leaders in America often wealthy? How can we improve "Come, Follow Me"?

Hi! We’re glad you’re here for another week of Latter-day Saint-focused news and discussion. Kurt Francom of Leading Saints, a podcast and community focused on helping Latter-day Saints become better leaders, is with us in the hot seat.

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Transcript

00:01.00
Geoff Openshaw
What’s up party people. How y’all doing welcome to This Week in Mormons I’m Geoff Openenshaw your founder.

00:04.65
Kurt Francom
And I’m Kurt Frankham your somewhat regular co-host. Hey yep but I think this is way back. 2012 I mean how long you’ve been doing this Geoff okay I would say 15012 and I stumbled across you and.

00:15.10
Geoff Openshaw
But longtime supporter of the show Kurt.

00:31.22
Geoff Openshaw
Since 2010 early None the hour. And you listen to it. Yes.

00:43.11
Kurt Francom
And al and I thought well these two are apostates let’s see what they have to say and little did I know that you came around you repented and you know I’m just kidding you were out. You’re always good. They’re just snarky. Okay, all right? That’s cool.

01:00.90
Geoff Openshaw
Know you said oh oh you said oh they’re faithful modes of the church. They just sound like apostates I get it I get it. You been around for a while folks some days some days I wish I could reduce Sunday school bonanza. But I don’t have the time I don’t have the time to commit to it. You know.

01:22.61
Kurt Francom
Oh man, do you remember your dream Geoff that you were going to just like do the 4 years and then just hit repeat I guess you did that for a while.

01:40.62
Geoff Openshaw
I did I did it for a couple of years yeah yeah we got through all 4 years and then ah then it recycled over and I just kind of I republished because like howter you need at to the top of somebody’s feed. So I republished the same episodes four years later and then kind of when we were hitting our one of our lul. Our big lull in 2018 when we’d scaled back production of this show.

01:52.33
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, yeah.

02:19.88
Geoff Openshaw
Figuring out what Alice’s situation was and I got busy and then we didn’t do much of anything for many months that’s when a number of you stopped listening and and many of you stuck around. Thank you true believers appreciate you people? um it was around that same time as well. I think I even stopped like I think we’re on I think we were on old testament. Yeah, that rings a bell because it’s about four years ago and I and I just kind of like.

02:48.97
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

02:59.80
Geoff Openshaw
Gave up I just stop doing so if you look at the Sunday school bonanza itunes feed I think it dies out sometime around now for your.

03:05.95
Kurt Francom
Now I’ve been thinking about this that isn’t didn’t we start come follow me on the new testament isn’t that right? Yeah so I’m just thinking about this. You know the surge of Youtube channels I so I assume many have not did not start at the beginning of come follow me. But.

03:21.96
Geoff Openshaw
I Think so.

03:43.99
Kurt Francom
I Wonder what they will do when they sort of loop back around right? Well, they’d feel like well here we go again. Let’s just rehash what we did before maybe you know in a different way or maybe interesting to see what happens to that to that industry if we can call it that.

04:07.14
Geoff Openshaw
Um, that’s a good question. Ah I think it’s ah I think it’s very much an opportunity to try to rethink the structure of come followll me which works for family and personal study week to week. But I still think needs tighter direction in terms of when you have a biweekly Gospel Doctrine lesson. It’s okay to leave it as a grab back for.

04:31.43
Kurt Francom
Oh Geoff this is a wormhole. Yeah, so.

04:46.84
Geoff Openshaw
yeah well yeah I mean I think it’s it’s fair, let the teachers use at their discretion. But I think but I think at the point is they’re trying to make it so like all of us are studying the same thing all the time but you could go to gospel doctrine and you might have None teacher who is covering the material. You just read for the week but I’ve seen others who are going to cover the material that’s coming and and the forthcoming week I don’t mind personally that that makes things a little. A little more flavorful as we’re learning and you never know quite what you’re going to get. But if the goal is like churchwide like very unified curricula that we’re all kind of working on at the same time privately and within a church setting then that’s a little bit of an issue.

05:45.29
Kurt Francom
Yeah, this this concept of Sunday school has been in my mind a lot recently actually yesterday I was called about 12 hours before Sunday school and said hey the teacher’s sick. Can you step in and teach so I had the opportunity to teach yesterday in this book of judges which is you know the None of 2 lessons that could have been been covered.

06:11.28
Geoff Openshaw
Cool.

06:24.75
Kurt Francom
But even that even if you just take None lesson and say you know we’re going to teach on it. There’s so much content in the book of judges. You know it’s a whole book of scripture that you just can’t hit because I think in our minds we we sort of imagine this place where we all gather on Sunday and they’re like. Oh I loved verse 2 oh I loved verse 2 as well and let’s read that and then we studied you know this this stretch of verses and then there’s this great discussion of people’s week or two weeks of of study. But now it’s like ah you know half the room maybe didn’t even crack the book the other half spent maybe focus on different areas and so. You can’t really come together and have this review type of approach Geoff I mean what do you think? is it. But so but going back to what you initially said like how could we.

07:48.62
Geoff Openshaw
Interesting. Yeah yeah.

08:03.67
Kurt Francom
Hypothetically like tighten this up a little bit so it’s better more of a a community experience which I think they’re shooting for.

08:15.10
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, and you want to be more of a community experience I mean part of that is is I think teachers Frankly, the thing I think we need as teachers to be more proactive in their colleagues I’m not dissing the many wonderful teachers who do jobs but it’s very easy to treat as something like I show up and teach the lesson I’m assuming.

08:29.73
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah.

08:46.60
Geoff Openshaw
Others are doing their personal study which hopefully they are I can tell I can tell like in lessons when some people have clearly been reading during the week or have not whatever but we need to empower teachers more because if you really look at the manual everything we know about teachers. It’s not just a show up and teach thing it’s really like think about your class your needs I’m not saying others aren’t being prayerful but.

09:16.95
Kurt Francom
Nip.

09:26.22
Geoff Openshaw
Engage with them during the two weeks in between send an email to your class people to tell them what you’re talking about what you’re thinking about ask them what they’re thinking about really get the juices flowing a lot more so it feels like it’s this communal experience because while I think we are using come follow me well for our personal study and hopefully that is that is sort of.

09:26.25
Kurt Francom
Um.

10:05.68
Geoff Openshaw
Parlaying into what we’re doing in our gospel doctrine setting our Sunday school setting. For example, it still does feel kind of like lecture focused with questions asked as opposed to going around. Yeah.

10:11.85
Kurt Francom
yeah yeah I like that and I mean I could have I think it would have definitely enriched my teaching experience. Obviously I was asked to step in last minute. But if I was the the full time teacher saying things like hey I’m going to just focus on the story of debbra in the book of judges. So. Really hit that that story hard bring your thoughts and here we go and then you know nobody’s surprised whatnot I’ve heard of other teachers who have like like a texting group right? That hey you can join this if you want and they’re texting out like questions throughout the week and and then they come to class and I think there is sort of you’ve already sort of jailed around a certain.

11:00.66
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah stuff like that’s great.

11:29.19
Kurt Francom
Ah topic or story. You know.

11:33.22
Geoff Openshaw
All these things are great ideas. Also of course I’m going to say this facetiously. You know you could use. You know the gospel living app you know use the circles. Oh wait, you can’t because you can’t create your own and there is not one for there’s one that just says adults. So you can message all the adults.

12:10.50
Kurt Francom
These apps I bust their heart I mean there’s probably and a unified groan in some department in the IT department there. Ah.

12:27.24
Geoff Openshaw
Oh i’ve’ve um I’ve been made Privy to some things about the development of the gospel living app. It’s here’s the thing folks you have to remember our church is wonderful. It’s full of wonderful terrific individuals across all over the place. Both professional employees and general authorities.

12:43.31
Kurt Francom
It is.

13:04.68
Geoff Openshaw
Who want great things but like any big organization. There is always this just like man. There’s always the tendency of of principals managers to decide. They want something and decide they wanted it yesterday and it has to get done and so you might think even in the Lord’s church something like app development is being done in a very.

13:21.33
Kurt Francom
Um.

13:42.80
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, very methodical, cautious way. No, there’s also things when certain leaders say no no, no, we need this and this and this and this and we want it done in six months and they’ll just be like yeah okay and then when that happens you wind up with things like the just serve app which has been half baked since since it’s inception and it could be a lot more. And I’ve worried we like roll these things out with fanfare but then it doesn’t always seem like we try to support them in the long term and make them better I think the idea of gospel living is cool I think the idea of circles is cool if you could customize that that’s fine, but the problem is it doesn’t totally work that way and so like you don’t use it like my bishop keeps trying to get word council to use.

14:29.97
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:51.28
Geoff Openshaw
Do it but like nobody does because it’s just like easier to text everybody like bottom line. It’s just easier to text everybody I know I mean the app is updated I don’t think functionally it’s changed a ton since it since it since it first rolled out and it’s like.

14:53.87
Kurt Francom
Yeah, so is that app not even being updated now currently or it’s just ah, they could just improve it if but they probably have lost funding to it or they’ve focused priorities elsewhere right.

15:27.80
Geoff Openshaw
Well I Really think one of the best potential uses of it is to use it with youth who are such a focus right now to be able to reach out to them The youth don’t really use email as we’re learning. They’re okay ish with texting and different leaders are going to with varying degrees of success.

15:43.27
Kurt Francom
M.

16:05.12
Geoff Openshaw
Utilize social media to be in touch with the youth in their ward I know you’ve got an episode or an article on on leading saints back when it was you know leading more what I forgot we usually used to be called leading mormons no, you didn’t call it it leading Lds but um, there was called basically was a rundown of why bishops need to be on social media and a lot of bishops are afraid to be on social media.

16:17.29
Kurt Francom
Leading mormons now leading Lds. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

16:42.74
Geoff Openshaw
But if you could get your youth on their phones and they had the circles app and you could and you could have a little bit more control over it. That’s a good way to like keep up with the youth in your work I do find it’s kind of hard to like pin them down now that I’m in this this role is like a councilor or the bishop Brick I Love my youth.

16:56.55
Kurt Francom
Right? Yeah I think.

17:12.98
Geoff Openshaw
But it’s not always clear like what the best method is for me to even contact one of them during the week like do I just call their parents do I send them an email do I text them do they have a phone but it’s not like the olden days when when you and I were teenagers and a council would just call our houseline and say can I speak with Geoff.

17:32.61
Kurt Francom
Yeah, you’d go pick up the phone off the wall and say yeah.

17:46.40
Geoff Openshaw
And that’s all it was. It’s It’s a little bit more balknized now and that is a challenge and you know and especially in this day and age when it’s even more important to keep up with the youth got to find the best way to do it.

17:56.79
Kurt Francom
And this Geoff this is why None party organizations like leading saints is so important to the mission of the church because I get a lot of people ask me of you sent me up. Well Geoff but a lot of people ask me like do you hope that leading saints.

18:19.86
Geoff Openshaw
Whoa This is this is like your pre-roll spiel that plays before every episode. Oh this is great. Sorry.

18:36.10
Kurt Francom
You know gets acquired or the church sort of absorbs the the effort and whatnot like no I do not not that I don’t want the church running it or whatnot that the bureaucracy will swallow it whole and and then you got dynamics like correlation and.

18:50.74
Geoff Openshaw
This is like this is like a government versus private industry thing and you view the church as the big bureaucracy. Here.

19:10.25
Kurt Francom
The Pr department is like it’s better that some random kid in Stansberry Park Utah runs the podcast out of his basement and calls it a day. You know it’s so.

19:29.14
Geoff Openshaw
I guess but but are you toeing the line are you doing what the church wants you to do That’s the issue you could become a rogue agent and use your use your influence and following to. Ah.

19:35.59
Kurt Francom
I Know well I could and I think we’ve seen Rogue agents ah go take a left turn right? So yes, yes.

20:00.80
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, this show is for an example this up.

20:05.49
Kurt Francom
If you if you would ah change my name and my voice on all future episodes I’d be great Geoff yeah, they got your number Geoff.

20:12.94
Geoff Openshaw
If the church would like to acquire This Week in Mormons sure I’m all for it. Please go ahead. Geoff at this week of http://mormons.com shoot me a note. Let’s do this thing. Let’s there. Go oh what’s up it’s up I’ll not really.

20:28.75
Kurt Francom
Ah, oh well. Geoff I would I’d hate to extend the banter but I’m going to because it’s a slow newsweek or or silly newsweek if I know it’s true. It’s true. How’s how’s the bishopric experience going I’m I’m speaking sort of with my leading saints hat on.

20:52.20
Geoff Openshaw
We always say this and then the show winds up being 90 minutes long so what okay

21:05.80
Geoff Openshaw
Well thank you for asking for one I’ve actually been excited to talk about this with you more than probably any of the other co-hosts because this is more in your lane and you’ve been aware of this for a while remember I think you were in Israel and I remember I sent you a message and I was like.

21:04.30
Kurt Francom
Little bit here. Yeah oh good.

21:34.94
Geoff Openshaw
So if you’re already the executive secretary and a counselor in the state bresney wants to meet with you and your wife and you immediately just said Bishop Rick that’s your response.

21:42.17
Kurt Francom
Yeah, and and I really spent some time like what on Earth Could it be like maybe a trek Mon Pa I don’t know like so yeah.

21:58.90
Geoff Openshaw
Right? And so because we were like we were like they wouldn’t meet with both of us just to release me I mean I was exact sec for a long time. So so it’s the thing that made sense and that’s that’s what it was So ah, it’s been good. You know it took them a while to do the full I think I told the tale here on the show. It took a while to actually get there just because they wanted all of are.

22:21.29
Kurt Francom
E.

22:35.68
Geoff Openshaw
Other counselor was traveling a lot for work. It was hard to kind of get us all in 1 place on on one Sunday so I’ve only been in for about four or five weeks now but um it’s been good. It’s fun. Obviously I’ve been involved for a while and seen how a lot of how the hay is made as we speak. But now it’s even.

22:42.10
Kurt Francom
Um, ah.

22:58.67
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

23:08.46
Geoff Openshaw
Just feel a little funny because like I’ve been the bishops executive secretary for so long and now sometimes I remind myself when I’ve been in a row. It’s just him in the None councillor like it’s like a different level of meeting perhaps than it was before like he’s looking at me and with different eyes expecting different capacity out of me than it was before.

23:20.55
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

23:40.60
Geoff Openshaw
And have to kind of remind myself of that because it’s easy for me just to remember like hey here we are again here we are the 2 of us you know, just doing my scheduling stuff. No, it’s not that it’s it’s more of that. So ah I’ve I’ve enjoyed it so far I think there’s.

23:51.63
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, anything that’s like surprised you ah about the experience that you didn’t expect her.

24:11.12
Geoff Openshaw
Um, well I always expect. There’s always an administrative element when you’re a counselor I think even so in the in the Nelson Era Basically and because I think the Nelson Era is synonymous with the no more high priest group to our church all of that era right? And and.

24:29.65
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

24:50.80
Geoff Openshaw
Part of that is also no more young men’s presidency. But and so I’ve enjoyed that spiritual side of it I love being with the youth. It’s the None time I’ve even gone to ice. We don’t call it mutual anymore. First time I’ve gone to youth activities just call it mutual None time I’ve gone to youth activities since like I was in high school like I literally have not back since that I’ve never had a youth calling and so that’s been kind of.

25:12.77
Kurt Francom
Ah.

25:28.82
Geoff Openshaw
Fun to do that. The administrative side is pretty interesting because I think um, when you’re an exec Sec like’ there’s a lot of administrative work. Honestly, you you have to be proactive to make it into a spiritual pursuit I would say which I tried to do but in this case, yeah I could let stuff slide if it happened. Like I knew things if feelings were earthshattering eye out Behind. It’s like okay I’m a little bit behind on some of these youth interviews and you sort it out but like if I get behind on planning sacrament meeting I have hosed the entire ward like I have to do with this stuff and so kind of staying on top of that and that’s been What’s really interesting to me is at least the way we’re doing it in our ward is a councilor and I just alternate.

26:16.19
Kurt Francom
Um.

26:40.88
Geoff Openshaw
On planning sacrament meeting. We’re not collaborating month in and month in to do it. So it’s just like straight up on me just like come up with the topics and the speakers but whatever you want just clear it with the bishop and then and then go forth and invite people to do stuff and as I’m saying this I know there’s things in the back of my mind that I have people I’ve yet to invite that I need.

26:48.53
Kurt Francom
Love it.

27:15.25
Kurt Francom
Ah, yeah.

27:19.24
Geoff Openshaw
And I already feel behind not and so so that part of it’s pretty interesting because you you don’t feel pressure per se but you realize like you know you got to like be on top of this otherwise yeah otherwise ward programming will collapse and that will be no bleno. My poor wife will out to speak every sunday.

27:28.51
Kurt Francom
Yeah, you’re cranking the will right.

27:47.95
Kurt Francom
Or you’ll just ah, you’ll call all your ah twin co-hosts and ask them to come to Dc.

27:54.46
Geoff Openshaw
Bring the kids up just bring it up. Yes I will fly I’ll fly you out Kurt it’ll be great. My other favorite part has been my 2 year old constantly yelling at me from the congregation which has been great and we’re sitting there in the middle of the sacrament and he just looks up and goes who goes hey Daddy hey dad.

28:09.95
Kurt Francom
Oh yes, Yes, that’s an experience.

28:26.99
Kurt Francom
Please child be quiet.

28:33.60
Geoff Openshaw
I Don’t even care I Just I know I like I lean into it I’m just like so but it’s okay, don’t mind so so far rewarding I’m sure that honestly one of my favorite things I’ve done so far is temple recommend interviews. You just kind of get thrust into it but I’ll know there was something really like special about that being on the other side of it same questions I’ve answered myself.

28:43.30
Kurt Francom
Nice.

29:04.81
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

29:11.82
Geoff Openshaw
But ah, but I I enjoyed that a lot. It was interesting. You know the same questions when you just kind of stare at your state Presidency member a bishop Mc member and just say like yep Yep yep yep and just being the one to ask that watching someone else have that same like look on their face as they’re talking to me. It’s like humbly in a weird way.

29:24.29
Kurt Francom
Yeah, right.

29:43.50
Kurt Francom
And here here to decrease the awkwardness I’ll give you a tip with Temper Recommends don’t memorize the questions because there’s always that guy who’s in the state presidency or whatever who’s done it. Ah so many times that he can recite the questions and so he’s like I don’t need the I don’t need the questions but then it just turns awkward because he’s literally staring at you.

29:49.00
Geoff Openshaw
It’s just interesting. So I just appreciate hoping you will do it.

30:21.85
Kurt Francom
The entire time like I don’t know the the introvert in me is sort of like could you just so when I did ah you know look down at the paper read the question look up, get the answer read look down to the paper. Anyways, so oh I know look in their soul right? Yeah, but it is interesting in these administrative experiences. How.

30:43.16
Geoff Openshaw
Though but the eye contact is crucial. You just stare at him.

30:59.90
Kurt Francom
Things that are so routine they they health different. They feel just being on a you know in a different seat. But.

31:10.86
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and I guess it’s a good way to describe it. It felt a lot different even though it’s the same thing I’ve saddened many times in my life. No oh yeah, my None Sunday in they just threw me right and this threw me to the wolves.

31:15.97
Kurt Francom
Yeah I mean even like have you conducted sacramenting yet. Yeah yeah, and that’s just like you feel like I’ve never been in a sacrament. What do I say like anyways oh good. Nice.

31:40.44
Geoff Openshaw
This So this might shock you I have not really felt like I’ve struggled much with conducting sackrain meaning um that hast not intended. That’s been like the least intimidating part of this entire process I think for some it might be very intimidating but I don’t know if it’s just from years of podcasting and.

32:03.17
Kurt Francom
You’re a natural master of ceremonies. Geoff.

32:11.56
Geoff Openshaw
I’m comfortable I am comfortable in like an mc like environment for me honestly though, the struggle is not to try to be like to Geoff in that situation un lock it up there and be like so so so hey everybody how we do but ah actually try to just be sincere.

32:18.95
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

32:32.15
Kurt Francom
Ah, yeah.

32:46.24
Geoff Openshaw
Still be myself. But it’s not about me right? Sacraman you’re just trying to set a tone for people to be able to be there and worship I’m not there to entertain or anything like that. So ah, that’s the thing to remember. But as far as getting nervous. It is funny because if I’m giving a talk I will still get a little bit of nerves because I feel like I’m more exposed spiritually in that sense right? But if it’s just standing up there to.

32:51.49
Kurt Francom
Right? right.

33:21.32
Geoff Openshaw
Conduct a meeting I’m just like all right everybody. Oh that’s like I’m fine. It doesn’t bug me at all. Yeah yeah, thank you I will every week we will have an update on how is Geoff doing with with the with.

33:22.65
Kurt Francom
Yeah, nice will keep us updated pope that Geoff.

33:51.46
Geoff Openshaw
His life and the things until they find out I do this podcast and say you can’t do that podcast anymore and I’ll be like okay no I don’t know i’t Broadcast I don’t I don’t think and.

33:51.67
Kurt Francom
Yeah, does that ever come up. That’s interesting because I remember when I was doing leading saints is ah the first you know few years of being a bishop I had started it before I was called as bishop and I you know I didn’t want to. Um, I also do a side podcast about church leadership I I never brought it up. You know and suddenly you know every once in a while someone would find out but and it wasn’t that big back then. But.

34:44.36
Geoff Openshaw
And for me, it’s explicitly because I don’t want it to be like I’m leveraging church for my own professional gain for whatever we’re going to call this thing and so I don’t but I do try to be mindful of that I mean it’s a calling like this does make it.

34:49.97
Kurt Francom
Yeah, exactly right.

35:17.60
Geoff Openshaw
Think about like what? what do I say on the podcast. What are we publishing on our social media feeds. What am I saying on social media for like just privately for that matter I mean I’ve noticed I’ve noted guys who get called as bishops sometimes like just seize up entirely on Facebook and I think that might be a valid choice. You know? Yeah, so because I’ve had bishops who.

35:18.95
Kurt Francom
Right.

35:38.95
Kurt Francom
Yeah yep, yep.

35:52.96
Geoff Openshaw
We had a bishop in our singles ward who was a former congressman and he would spout off like a ton about his political stuff and you’re like dude you’re in Washington d c like half your award are Democrats like this is not a good way to ingratiate yourself with your flock so you got to be mindful anyway, um to get to some news.

36:05.39
Kurt Francom
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s do it. Geoff.

36:31.24
Geoff Openshaw
So a quick adjustment here Very short notice here from the church adjustment to temple scheduling obviously because of Covid First they shut down the temples then they started reopening the temples and phases and as they did so we required reservations to go to the temple. So in that case it was specifically because most of them were not operating at full capacity.

36:33.35
Kurt Francom
Um, oh yes.

37:07.60
Geoff Openshaw
And they could limit the number of people who could attend all that stuff I mean some of you have probably been to weddings in the earlier days of covid when they first reopened and there was the one couple even allowed in the building or remember these times Kurt I mean like my cousin my cousin got married and they were like the only people in the temple. My sister got married and she was like the only person in the temple it was that was something else. Um.

37:17.65
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

37:43.24
Geoff Openshaw
We’ve moved past that thankfully and hopefully permanently and we can all try to stay healthy and keep other people healthy. But now they they treat this like it’s news. They’ll say sue lattertery saints who would like to attend the temple to perform proxy ordinances because you always have to have an appointment to do your own work. We’ll have the option to either reserve an appointment or attend without an appointment. Where space is available as priority will be given to patrons with appointments those who attend the temple without a reservation may be asked to wait for an opportunity to participate so it’s like it was before you know you roll up to the temple you say oh yeah, you know there’s a five o’clock session and you go and you hope you’re going to get in. Um I’m assuming this means they’ll there’ll not put a cap. On capacity orre we’re getting to that that step but I am curious about it being a kind of a hybrid setup like this. Um I mean I think reservations are smart in general I I don’t maybe I got a little used to it because some of the smaller temples have always required reservations. They don’t have the space.

39:06.69
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

39:36.74
Geoff Openshaw
And so I mean I’ve done that in my life I I like the reservation idea because you don’t show up at a busy temple on a Saturday and you know how I mean you’re in Utah you know sometimes you can be like yeah I’m but just just just to get in and if you’re willing to do that I guess and you want to be a walk-in and that’s your m o okay.

39:40.83
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, you could wait hours just to get into the session. Yeah.

40:08.36
Geoff Openshaw
I mean it makes you feel like you’re on stand by though like you’re waiting there and they come to you and say hey hey hey we just had somebody cancel for the two thirty do you want to hop in here I mean I don’t know how else you’re going to know so it’s fine to allow walking. But.

40:19.11
Kurt Francom
Yeahp yeah I like this I think this will be a benefit because you know out with the soli temple closed Ardner’s Temple’s bountiful which is about forty forty five minutes from where I’m at and so sometimes I don’t know that I’m going to be in the area and.

40:52.34
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

40:52.35
Kurt Francom
It’s nice to know like oh I’m going to be in. You know that part of the valley and I’m going to grab my temple stuff and just see if I can pop in for a session. You know so right.

41:08.66
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, and that’s like how it always used to be so I actually like that they’re keeping the reservation system because while it should be like None come first serve I mean in theory I think it’s a better way to manage people.

41:23.59
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

41:31.62
Geoff Openshaw
Overall, it’s like the same thing I used to be very skeptical about movie theaters doing reserve seats I thought I was the dumbest thing I’d ever heard I’m like no you want your seat you get there and you get your seat. Ah, but then they don’t even charge extra for and now and now I’m like totally the opposite I’m like oh new New I Want to if I reserve my seat.

41:33.93
Kurt Francom
Ah, earth.

41:50.45
Kurt Francom
Yeah I want to walk in sit down and it starts right? yep.

42:03.36
Geoff Openshaw
If I reserve my seat I can skip previews I can show up when I want to show up and just sit down and watch the things so cool news here. They haven’t actually given a firm timeline. It’s just they just said soon literally the description of soon soon. This will happen. So keep your eyes out for soon soon. You will do this.

42:33.77
Kurt Francom
Nice. So Geoff Temple Temple open house. You had an opportunity to go and not only did you take away a a deeper conviction of temples. You also took away covid from your temple ah tour right is that nice and.

42:39.52
Geoff Openshaw
Yay.

42:58.72
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, that that is that that is the belief. Yes, that is the prevalent thinking right now.

43:10.59
Kurt Francom
I guess now the the news is the DCTemple open house has had 250000 attendees and counting and we were chatting about this before hitting record and you know that’s sort of that’s awesome like that’s a lot of people but surprisingly wasn’t as many that they had back in the 70 s as the initial open house.

43:35.92
Geoff Openshaw
It’s huge.

43:43.60
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I mean it is cool. They got that many I think this still does seem like a they even said what was it memorial day weekend or Saturday of memorial day we can add None visitors during the day and that’s a big deal like this was a line going out if you’ve been to the dc temple like down past the grounds winding around towards the gate.

44:04.79
Kurt Francom
Now.

44:21.92
Geoff Openshaw
A lot of people waiting to get in. That’s very cool that they did that. So ah, um, but yeah as we noted quarter million I think I don’t have anything official from public affairs people seems even lower though than I think we expected. Overall there was talk of a None going around pretty pretty freely before the open house started. Um.

44:19.33
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

44:58.82
Geoff Openshaw
And to be clear I don’t think we’re not I’m not saying the open house has been a failure or a disappointment or anything like that. Yeah I think it’s been a lot of people but like you said that’s an interesting point you made though right? So in 1974 when they had the None open house over 750000 people tour the temple and the open house was seven weeks long this one is six weeks long so

45:01.95
Kurt Francom
Right? Yeah, that’s a lot of people all right.

45:38.64
Geoff Openshaw
Still the that’s still definitely a lot more per week than what we’re having right now and I do think it’s interesting because this is like generational I mean it was a brand new building in the 70 s but a whole generation is basically passed seeing this building up there and so I think it’s cool. But yeah, it’s ah.

45:57.89
Kurt Francom
Yeah, and I just wonder why the the difference like is there a cultural shift like our communities aren’t as curious or they’re that’s just not their thing or there’s too many Netflix series to stream through or what.

46:15.98
Geoff Openshaw
For you.

46:36.56
Geoff Openshaw
It’s everyone’s watching under the banner of heaven. Um, it’s I don’t know exactly I do have to wonder I mean it’s such a large imposing building and when it was built the dc the population of the Dc Metro area was about None people it’s like 3 times that now.

46:36.49
Kurt Francom
That’s right.

46:58.77
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

47:08.32
Geoff Openshaw
And so I wonder if it’s just diluted a little bit in terms of its overall presence people know it from the beltway but people live even farther away some people live in the far-flung suburbs that might not really see the dc temple. It probably made a huge impact when it was none built in the seventy s I mean this massive landmark and an area that did not have its population base is spread out a little more visible. Perhaps you know a little bit more hoop law about it so otherwise pretty cool. There’ll be more I mean I think when all is said and done we might crack None there’s only about another this is essentially the last week of it right now it concludes on June eleventh that’s the other funny thing because they were supposed to rededicate the temple in.

48:05.27
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

48:24.68
Geoff Openshaw
I think in late june initially if I remember the None announcement I might be getting this wrong and then they came back and said oh because of demand we’re going to extend the open house indefinitely and push the dedication into like the middle of August and we’re like whoa. It’s like two months later why they’re going to do that and that’s fine like if the demand was that huge like.

48:45.77
Kurt Francom
Oh wow.

49:02.72
Geoff Openshaw
This thing run all summer let’s do this thing. Yeah, it’s gonna be great, but then at the end of the day they’ve literally only extended it about one week that’s all it is. It was supposed to be done last Saturday and now it’s going to go until next Monday or next Saturday this Saturday whatever date that is I just think it. It’s just funny being out here when it was like who knows when it’s going to end. It’s like okay, we just gave it an extra week. That’s fine. But now the temple’s gonna sit for like two months until they dedicate It’s so great. Thanks again. Salt Lake sorry

49:53.83
Kurt Francom
Nice and you guys got your own ah ah, model right of the Dc temple like the data with solid temple is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, was it there before this ah renovation? Oh okay, okay, nice. Yeah.

50:08.10
Geoff Openshaw
Oh like a cut like a cutaway thing. Yeah, they do have one I’m assuming it’s still in the visitor center. The visitor center was closed when we were there. But yeah, they did it a couple years a few years ago.

50:33.71
Kurt Francom
Awesome! Where are we going next? Geoff where I mean there’s so many to ah pick.

50:38.14
Geoff Openshaw
It’s I don’t know it’s um, since since we’re on temple news. Let’s go to the land of your ancestors Burley idahourt where from which from whence you came they broke around there in Berley Idaho

50:50.43
Kurt Francom
Of my hands saysors. Okay, all right.

51:12.64
Geoff Openshaw
And the thing I’m grateful for here is I remember many months ago I was being a little facetious shocking and I wondered about all these various temple groundbreakings that would be coming up in the near future and I think it was because like apostles were going to be at like the Smithfield Utah 1 with 2 apostles there and was like oh sure Utah gets the apostles.

51:42.55
Kurt Francom
Ah.

51:50.70
Geoff Openshaw
Berley Idaho gets a member of the presidency of the 70 and then my beloved yo Belinda California just gets some rando right? but but I ate crow and thankfully so because as you looked into it. You realize that the 70 presiding over your Belinda when that happens like grew up in Los Angeles um and you learned that the 2 apostles I forget which I think one is elder Stevenson and Don forget who the other one’s going to be that are going to be in Smithfield and cash valley like grew up in cash valley and elder Brent H Nielsen of the presidency of the 70 is actually from Burley Idaho so this was not at random or to make.

52:35.71
Kurt Francom
Um.

53:03.24
Geoff Openshaw
Poor californians who are leaving and and moss. No this is this is great for him so he got toside over a groundbreaking for temple how meaningful for him. How wonderful that must be I mean I think you’re happy to do anything involving your church duties but it can’t you can’t it can’t help it be extra special when it’s somewhere that’s relevant to you personally so over the weekend they broke ground over at that temple in Burley.

53:12.65
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

53:42.10
Geoff Openshaw
Um, this does appear to me to be based on the pictures I’m seeing the very nature of a symbolic groundbreaking in that a zoomed out shot shows some kind of massive just open parking lot of some kind and all the stuff they set up for the ground breaking and I’m assuming they just trucked in a trough of dirt and quote. Quote unquote broke ground on it I don’t I haven’t gone to enough groundbreakings I e none to know for sure whether they always always always truck in the dirt or if there are times and they do actually have them break the ground on the site and then move forward I don’t know what the norm I’m calling Cory Ward

54:18.25
Kurt Francom
That’s right, That’s right.

54:46.73
Kurt Francom
Yeah, well and I think that’s the case with any groundbreaking even outside of the church. They just sort of truck in some dirt and move it around and call it a day but you want them to lay the cornerstone and say all right boys take it from here right.

54:54.34
Geoff Openshaw
We will know.

55:07.36
Geoff Openshaw
I want them to be real groundbreaking if they’re breaking ground. No none of that but I want the actual people to be there like all right. This is what’s happening and they’re the None people to break dirt the actual dirt then you can bring in all this stuff.

55:28.85
Kurt Francom
That’s right, that’s right? So I just I love hearing about you know these ground breakings with these temples who that were sort of a surprise I know you know I have a good friend who lives in Berley and he put on Facebook just he’s just like you just can’t believe it. You know there’s a temple coming.

55:50.40
Geoff Openshaw
No.

56:02.89
Kurt Francom
Our town and and I get the same feelings as I drive by the the Taylorville Utah temple I mean it’s like in my neighborhood practically and I’m just like I never could have imagined that this is where temple’s going and that it’s just so cool when you have that personal connection and and to see these events and it’s it’s it’s awesome.

56:12.16
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

56:37.64
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I mean I’m super psyched for your Belinda right? I kind? um but they announced Burley the same general conference as your be end I believe and like yeah, my phone lit up immediately I’m sitting there trying for twin for those of you who listen you know we do our temple predictions and temple announcements are a big deal for everybody so when it’s always like the end of conference.

56:41.11
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

57:12.62
Geoff Openshaw
1 it’s it’s a terrible time for us because it’s like None p m eastern so it’s like the middle of trying to get dinner on a Sunday trying to make this happen so you’re like cooking and I always have the laptop open I have like the article pre-written as best as I can so the moment president Nelson starts spewing those off you like do you get them all. But.

57:40.73
Kurt Francom
You’re a true journalist Geoff.

57:49.24
Geoff Openshaw
Then when it was your belinda. Yeah we’re just like oh I’m sorry I mean thankfully it was like last alphabetically so it gave me a little bit time to breathe. But um, whereas like are you kidding me and my phone just went nuts and everyone’s like what? what. And I’ve even seen the the specs for it too because they went through the city council. Yeah, it’s just it’s great. It’s super cool. Man. It’s it’s fun stuff for everybody. What a blessing for the people of Burley Idaho I like this one because I don’t imagine a lot of people expected somewhere like Burley would get a temple when you’ve got twin falls not too far away and but yeah, good times there man.

58:18.83
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

58:40.53
Kurt Francom
Um. Speaking of wealth and prosperity and blessings. There is a a a article at the times and seasons dot Org Whoa is that my ah my segue music or I crack a minute when I use a dad joke or something.

58:56.28
Geoff Openshaw
Good times. So yeah, that’s more we’re speaking of. Yeah.

59:17.20
Geoff Openshaw
That was for you now here here. You are you all right? go ahead? yes.

59:29.99
Kurt Francom
Um, welcome back to This Week in Mormons and well now we’ll now talk about this article. It sounds like it’s the volume is is louder than it needs to be but.

59:52.82
Geoff Openshaw
I’ve totally thrown you off your speed I don’t know.

01:00:02.89
Kurt Francom
So Geoff it’s called why did church leaders tend to be wealthy. Have you ever thought that to yourself because I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this Geoff but I’ve been a bishop before and let me tell you I am crazy wealthy. Okay.

01:00:12.48
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, yes, yes.

01:00:28.94
Geoff Openshaw
Did they ask you was part of the interview process. They asked about your downline is that what they do in Utah.

01:00:35.21
Kurt Francom
4 four years of tax returns I had to submit and all you know all the assets I don’t know no Geoff you like I’m like I’m not doing this. You can have them. Um, yeah, so this is article I think ah you know just on this this blog site.

01:00:51.40
Geoff Openshaw
Could you imagine if you had to do that for leadership things like we need to see your tax returns like I’m sorry.

01:01:13.95
Kurt Francom
So ah, it’s a little. Um yeah, ah come on come on. Is it really though Geoff I don’t know so I don’t know it will prevail I think there’s some ah, there’s ah a few holes in this article.

01:01:17.78
Geoff Openshaw
This blog side is called times and seasons by the way. It’s a it’s a not like a nothing page but okay continue. Yeah, it says right? there truth will prevail I mean it tells us.

01:01:53.63
Kurt Francom
Ah, few assumptions made and I I would guess if we were to literally and I and I guess when he says ah church leaders I mean what is he talking about is he like local leaders like bishops take President. He’s talking about Mission Presidents Relief Society presidents like what. Because I could say that. Yeah there are some you know like mission presents generally on average are probably upper middle class to wealthy right? Ah and so so but if if you were to I think survey if there’s some way to do this all the.

01:02:43.26
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:01.95
Kurt Francom
Bishops and you know ward councils in the world I don’t think we would be at all impressed with the level of wealth. What do you think? Geoff it just like the local leaders even if it was just bishops if we looked at all the bishops of the world right.

01:03:16.90
Geoff Openshaw
Sorry phrase that again, you think if we actually pulled the bishops I would not be impressed I think I think there’s a massive disparity between North America and the rest of the church in this regard I think that would just be yeah I mean? yeah yeah yeah i. well I

01:03:39.77
Kurt Francom
And this is another thing that the article are we are we talking international here right.

01:03:53.96
Geoff Openshaw
The author kind of just says upfront like I say it’s a parent that the U it says that he says us church though I mean that the church leaders tend to be wealthier than average. He’s like I say it’s a parents I don’t have numbers. This is just kind of anecdotal I feel this way more or less. So if we are talking about us church leaders.

01:03:56.57
Kurt Francom
Yeah, he does say okay true that.

01:04:30.26
Geoff Openshaw
By and large I would agree with it from what I’ve seen in my life at least I mean are not like wealthy wealthy um, but it could vary like I will say that I was very impressed years years and years ago when a member of my state presidency just to take the none council in the state presidency. Was a public school teacher and it’s like it’s funny though. Culturally, it’s like that’s not something you expect you expect like your state president’s gonna be some successful business individual and maybe as counselors will also be successful in business and the other one has also done things in business and they all work together in business and.

01:05:04.10
Kurt Francom
Um.

01:05:45.00
Geoff Openshaw
To be clear. We know there’s some truth to this because I think I’ve we’ve I’ve read enough of like stories of apostles visiting stakes to reorganize them and like asking specifically of of leaders like when they’re interviewing to so and so have business experience these were questions they do ask now. Business experience doesn’t mean wealth necessarily I think they’re curious about like organizational management.

01:06:05.57
Kurt Francom
Um.

01:06:24.32
Geoff Openshaw
And what your capabilities are therein but a lot of the time having those capabilities if you’re good at business and good at organizational Things. You’re often times more successful financially because you have your crap together. But that doesn’t always that’s not always the case but in my life I’ve Seen. I wouldn’t say bishops have been wealthy but I’d say bishops were not financially in a financially like perilous situation and also all the more important the church cares a lot about protecting the church and you I’m not saying you would but you could run the risk if you have bishops who were like impoverished right.

01:07:06.29
Kurt Francom
Um, right.

01:07:23.87
Kurt Francom
Absolutely right? and.

01:07:33.20
Geoff Openshaw
Feeling the need to sip a little off the top. Um and that has happened in our church. Not even in like far away history right? This is the thing they keep an eye on and so if you’re not if someone’s already well or ah well or off well or off more well. But if they’re in that case, they ah the presumption is they have resources in time to give. And there’s far less likelihood for fraud I would assume um.

01:08:09.45
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah to to me I don’t think it’s a wealth question as much as a a stability question right? like it when when I was bishop we were in an area with with condos and apartment buildings and I was in the condos and generally that’s where the leadership came from because. Owning a Condo Condo There’s a little bit more stability in life than maybe an apartment or you know you know you’re less likely in a transition period in your life If you’re if you’re living in a condo right? or Whatnot. So um to me I think ah the again it depends on what leadership role you’re talking about. But. He has 3 reasons 3 hypotheses Prosperity Gospel which um, you know that that maybe those who are more righteous are also blessed financially and therefore are also blessed with with callings of leadership and oh yeah.

01:09:33.34
Geoff Openshaw
Oh yeah.

01:09:49.76
Geoff Openshaw
And and to be clear Prosperity Gospel is like a legitimate belief in some evangelical circles and others if it is not officially a doctrine of our faith.

01:09:59.97
Kurt Francom
Yeah, and there’s a great documentary I believe it was on Netflix I don’t know if it’s on there anymore I think it’s called like the american gospel or something I don’t know American Church I don’t know but it it was fascinating talks about this the prosperity gospel and what a problem it is what not and anyways and then the other one is swell leaders if they’re more wealthy. They generally just have.

01:10:27.98
Geoff Openshaw
Okay, so.

01:10:39.69
Kurt Francom
Extra time and I think this is this is true in the case of mission presidents that they’re yeah they’re more wealthy because you’re asking to step away from a maybe a ah career ah career or ah for you know for 3 years

01:11:04.94
Geoff Openshaw
You know it’s funny. You say I they have to have the money but I also think both of my mission presidents effectively own their own businesses too. So they also had the flexibility to walk away for 3 years and expect know they could come right back? Yeah yeah.

01:11:12.27
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, knowing that they could come back and pick up. Yeah, yeah, so I think that but to me I don’t necessarily think that’s the case with I Don know several bishops who none of them had this the feeling of oh yeah, I have extra time I’d you have to do that to me i. Almost wish it was more individuals who are maybe in that retired phase or given an opportunity to do some of these things but and then the last one he says is wealth is a marker of managerial competence and so and I think that plays into it. Um I definitely think there is this feeling and I hear a lot of that. You know this is there’s there’s this is such a sacred tradition of like lay leadership and calling people to to leadership roles and it’s all done None on feelings of the spirit and I I think that’s not helpful in this process because that’s just not the case for like like It’s not like ah a sacred scroll drops down from heaven telling you exactly who the lord wants in these positions I think the lord gives a lot of autonomy to us and that’s exactly why he gave us keys they’re they’re governing governing keys and so he expects us to make decisions with that and so we may have a list and sure I felt that nudge as a leader. Towards certain names rather than others but to say that oh no, this is god’s will this is who he wants and I didn’t I didn’t even think about managerial experience or or wealth or extra time or anything I I don’t think that’s helpful either. But I think we got to get away from this idea that. It’s all done None of because god told us this name. Oh that’s just not my experience.

01:14:34.76
Geoff Openshaw
No I don’t think that would be the case either when we study it out. We offer things up and like you said I think God gives us a lot of autonomy even to fall on our faces like if if needs be right? Um, do you think since they talk about Prosperity gospel.

01:14:43.19
Kurt Francom
No.

01:15:05.78
Geoff Openshaw
And love your take on this because there’s there’s 1 comment in the comments on this article that kind of falls in line with the same thing I think about sometimes do you worry the book of mormon sometimes airs a little bit on the side of teaching that only because we look at the nephites and when they are righteous now I know.

01:15:27.59
Kurt Francom
They prospered in the land right.

01:15:37.88
Geoff Openshaw
I Know yeah they prospered in the land and they were wealthy then when they got too wealthy. Of course they forget the lord right? So and then they’re humbled Again. We see the pride cycle over and over again. But there is repeated mention many many times that when they are righteous when they keep the commandments they are blessed monetarily presumably for a time. Um, I think there’s a lot kind of in between that of course because it could be like well they’re being righteous. They’re they’re choosing the right they have their stuff better together and God cannot withhold his blessings from them like he might when they’re like like you know the sole story of Mormon How God just like refuses to help the nephites anymore because of how wicked they become. Um, do you ever see that in the scriptures or do you think that’s a.

01:16:38.50
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

01:16:50.25
Kurt Francom
No I would say it’s a safe thing to say that the book ofmors or airs on that side of of that doctrine or whatever it is and that’s to me just another example of that We worship a God of Paradoxes right? I mean you’re gonna find paradoxes throughout the scriptures and and we have to sit with those and reconcile those and.

01:16:55.82
Geoff Openshaw
Um, going too far.

01:17:29.35
Kurt Francom
I know in my experience. Ah you know and I’ll tell you what as far as ah, the journey I’ve been on the choices I’ve made I I think I should be a little more wealthy Geoff if that prosperity gospels is legit but I also know that that’s not necessarily the reason of of this life of and whatnot. But you know.

01:17:52.88
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah.

01:18:09.13
Kurt Francom
So but I think it’s safe to say that but you know and that’s not condemning the book of Mormon in any way I mean it’s obviously an inspired book of scripture. But it’s it’s a paradox that we have to sit with.

01:18:32.28
Geoff Openshaw
Um, now what about 1 other thing we think about this like the fact that bishops are both spiritual leaders focusing on that side of things. But then there is this large managerial component to it I think a lot of that stems from our history. You know the old bishops of the church during the time of the restoration was very hands on much more in kind of the mindset of like.

01:18:46.30
Kurt Francom
Yeah.

01:18:58.30
Kurt Francom
Um, a temporal thing right.

01:19:11.86
Geoff Openshaw
Presiding Bishop Rick a lot of temporal affairs right? and they do both there. There’s some who might argue and I’m not saying this is my argument but is that ever worth reassessment or could it even be reassessed should we instead have like award manager who is responsible for the temporal affairs and managing those things and a bishop. Who legitimately is a lay leader focusing on like the well-being and the activities and all that stuff. But he’s not the one like sweating the finances and facilities and all this all this other stuff they are sacred funds. We treat them sacredly I fully understand that but you could kind of like see the case for why don’t you just have board. Like a ward manager type role as somebody who which in many ways is like a ward clerk. Why don’t you just elevate the ward financial clerk into something bigger but you know what I mean like this touch spend a lot of their time thinking about some of the minutia management side of their wards they try to push that off to councilors. You know as much as they can. But I wonder if it in some ways. Hampers.

01:20:36.45
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

01:21:06.38
Geoff Openshaw
The ability of a bishop to focus primarily on the spiritual welfare of one’s flock kind of yeah in a way. Yeah.

01:21:12.15
Kurt Francom
Yeah, that’s interesting sort of like ah the City manager and the Mayor dynamic right? Yeah,, That’s fascinating. Especially I’ve heard and I was I’ve been in a few meetings if I remember right of area 70 saying that you know if a bishop. Loses his job or gets laid off. You should probably consider releasing him and and I thought oh my goodness I think could you? you know, kicking Away. He’s down type of thing. But the point the point being is that you know they’re suddenly maybe they’re worried about finances and now they’re they’re on a different level of temptation with.

01:22:03.20
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, right? Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:19.41
Kurt Francom
With managing the funds and that sort of ah adding that extra layer of having so you know a clerk or ah, a financial director or you know more of an administrative director that handles that and they just keep them separate and then the bishop handles just the the spiritual welfare I Love that. But and I think we’re in the midst of that an evolution and in. In a related tone with you know the the focus on the youth and having ellerskorn presidents and reliefite presences more involved and I don’t think a lot of words have really figured it out at this point. Um, you know we get a lot of questions that leading saints just people curious about what other words are doing and I haven’t really. Pinpointed very many that feel like they’ve they’ve found a good working process for for that I think the bishops are still taking on a lot on their shoulders and it continues to cause some of the delegation problems and mismanagement at times. So Yeah I think there’s and I hope I pray that the the church continues to look at just the. Organizational structure the leadership structure especially in more saturated areas where there’s so much so many people who could step in and help in some capacity who either has the experience or the ability to really spread the spread the work and we’d find deeper success I think.

01:24:46.88
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I mean imagi being a bishop and you didn’t have to stress out about all that stuff and you could just like devote yourself to a ministry more or less right? I don’t know anyway.

01:24:55.77
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah.

01:25:09.80
Geoff Openshaw
All right folks because Lds living is addicted to listicolles that jive with the times they’ve got None times o b None Canobi reminded us of Gospel truths and that was his intent is my understanding if you’re not aware in case, there’s an ob b one canobi show right now on Disney plus that you can see if you subscribe to Disney plus. Ah, we don’t have an affiliate link or anything like that. But you just go do you would be fun. So here are the None quotes and about the various things I’m just gonna blow through these because mostly I just crack up because there’s nothing wrong with trying to like pull gospel lessons out of all sorts of places I think that’s fine.

01:25:47.45
Kurt Francom
That’s right.

01:26:07.69
Kurt Francom
truth is Truth Geoff

01:26:18.44
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah I think that’s fine. It’s just like oh it’s like a step away from us being like does you know o b one canobi was actually inspired by a mormon missionary. You know the character came from like we we insert ourselves in everything so your eyes can deceive. You don’t trust them this basically says like hey there’s a lot of. And our day and age a lot of lies deep fakekes all kinds of stuff but you know what you can trust your spiritual eyes. Trust those? Ah then the old point of view comments from turn of the jedi some of the worst dialogue in the original trilogy many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of view a certain point of view Luke sometimes you’ll see that things depend on your point of view. It’s when Obi one tries to explain away. Ah, why he like said that Darth Fader killed Luke’s dad in the none movie because because nerd alert because George Lucas didn’t have the whole thing written out by then so initially Darth Fader had killed his father and they’re like well actually yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so ah.

01:27:52.93
Kurt Francom
That we’re speaking metaphorically.

01:28:08.92
Geoff Openshaw
This is just about point of view. You know you gotta have your there could be lots of interpretations of this quote there’s a quote from president Nelson if friends and family should step away from the church continue to love them. Do not be led astray though. By those who have different points of view have a good point of view here’s a quote from apparently he says a great leap forward often requires taking None steps back. This one’s from the clone war series which I’ve never watched so that’s just the okay, that’s good advice here’s another one from clone wars war tends to distort our point of view if we sacrifice our code even for victory we may lose that which is important to our honor war has very moral ramifications people. And of course we’re aware of that because of Russia’s little invasion of Ukraine. It can distort things quite a bit last None if you define yourself by the power to take life the desire to dominate to possess then you have nothing I think that’s just flat out true. There’s some quotes I wish they would have used instead things like that’s no moon. It’s a space station that would have been a good quote also strike me down and I’ll be more powerful than you can possibly imagine I don’t know why we’re not pulling a gospel context out of that None but all right. You do you lds living author Jannalysando you do.

01:30:30.69
Kurt Francom
That’s next week Geoff 5 more o b one and koobe quotes.

01:30:36.90
Geoff Openshaw
You do you just gonna keep going I wish it would be 5 anekins who’s gonna do 5 anekin skywalker quotes. It’s not have you have to have I hate I hate sand it’s co and it’s it’s famous. It’s a beautiful None pad may quotes hold me like we did at the lake.

01:30:44.73
Kurt Francom
Who there’s a one about the sand right? What does he say I hate sand. Yeah.

01:31:14.84
Geoff Openshaw
When there was nothing but our love like that alone I mean come on all right I’m done with this topic.

01:31:19.73
Kurt Francom
All right? Geoff we got 4 tips this is from the church Is Church News or church upside. Okay cool. Ah 4 tips to help you include members from different cultures. Um.

01:31:35.36
Geoff Openshaw
This is actually at the churches at church of Jesus Christ Dot Org this is the the churches website.

01:31:55.79
Kurt Francom
So one help them get familiar with the culture become friends learn about their background help them come unto Christ and this reminds me the shameless plug that I believe ah net is it that might be this Wednesday so in two days from this recording or tomorrow. Um. I did an interview with a former. Ah, ah, bishop who was in a spanish-s speakingaking ward in a english-speaking state here in in Salt Lake Valley and he talked about these things because in a spanish-speaking ward in the United States obviously you don’t just have mexicans you’ve got venezuelans people from Guatemala people from. Argentta tiina and so forth and so they talked about this. This was an important part of their of their community of their ward is making sure that we were getting familiar with other cultures and because it was easy to see you know people from the same country pisanos as they call him Geoff you know? ah. That they would sort of form natural clip clicks and whatnot. So anyways, yeah there you have it.

01:33:59.48
Geoff Openshaw
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s what they say? Yeah well I think this is thank you I I do like the context the art of the article is here I mean the the author social Bot Rivera says his mother was a mexican immigrant. So at home. He lived a mexican lifestyle but outside of that he lived what he called an american lifestyle right? and so and there wasn’t a big latino community in his area so he decided he was praying about whether to go to a english word or a spanish-peaking ward and felt that he should go to the spanishspeing ones that’s kind of what this is all born out of like even though he himself was raised kind of with latino influences. Home. He didn’t really grow up with that like around him everywhere else and these are why he has his his advice to help them feel better which I think is great I mean whatever the the culture should be the culture of the gospel above all else anyway, right? and I mean.

01:35:33.83
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, absolutely culture of christ.

01:35:54.22
Geoff Openshaw
I think Elder Bednar would say something like we have no mexican members of the church that seems like something elder beddnar would say because he doesn’t like the labels he I’m serious. He says we don’t he says there are no small temples. He says there are no gay saints I am convinced. There are also no brazilian saints because that would be a label. We can’t use that Kurt that’s incorrect.

01:35:59.63
Kurt Francom
No Geoff no.

01:36:28.27
Kurt Francom
That’s true here. We are.

01:36:33.68
Geoff Openshaw
And correct. Um, but I can appreciate this I’m a roman mission once we did a there were a lot of romanian immigrants in Spain and we taught many of them I learned a lot of Romania and stuff and but we did this thing it was around Christmas Eve might have been Christmas Eve itself it was holidays but we had like a cultural evening and all these romanians who were mostly investigators a lot of them came and were like. Showing off romanian culture. We had law members from sub-saharan africa and wound up being this fun ward experience where everybody from different places, especially the immigrants and immigrant communities face a lot of uphill battles that native born individuals often don’t but were able to show off a lot of their culture and thankfully we were an a war that was extremely inclusive and understanding just already. Ah, but it was a really positive evening and a great time where you saw you saw people like no one was mourning but there’s that idea like mourning with those who mournt and standing with those and kind of understanding None another developing greater empathy for everyone’s lived experiences and that war was super strong was probably the strongest word of my mission because the members went well out of their way to understand. Um, what other people and where they were coming from and what their experiences were and trying to learn from them because I’ve been in other areas where like the spaniards wouldn’t talk to the immigrants and the war sucked and like the vibes in the war were bad and the work didn’t go very well either and retention rates were poor. Of course they were poor. There was no zion people among that right? They weren’t trying so ah.

01:38:41.43
Kurt Francom
Wow! yeah.

01:39:09.32
Geoff Openshaw
Good reminder folks. You might see other people in your ward and they don’t learn from their background make them feel welcome. Good job Kurt way to pull that out buddy way to pull that out. Also.

01:39:16.49
Kurt Francom
Thank you Thank you! We’re near the end of our list if you can’t tell folks. So.

01:39:35.48
Geoff Openshaw
Also friend to friend is returning I’m a big fan of this and I’m glad it is coming out more on the regular because they did it in 2021 the 1 time longer form and then we had the last one in an early sprint late winter. Maybe I want to say I forget exactly when it was.

01:39:53.57
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

01:40:06.14
Geoff Openshaw
But children ages 3 to None their parents and primary leaders are invited to watch the upcoming one and we’ll have special messages from also elder gary e b stevenson of the quorum of the 12 and it will be called temples are the house of the lord and it will be available because you don’t have to watch it live. It’ll be available starting July thirtieth at None a m. Mountain daylight time. This broadcast was originally scheduled for July sixteenth but they postponed it so they could broadcast all languages at the same time cultural sensitivity. Once more. Don’t favor the english-speaking people and delay it for everybody for everybody else. Do it at once I think that’s good and if you remember last time around. They shot. They also shot the entire thing in spanish not didn it just did it in it I think they did spanish and portuguese was the other None right? They actually they didn’t dub. It. They did them in those languages and I’m assuming they’ll do the same thing this time the last friend of Rome is a bit shorter only twenty odd minutes but very good. This one’ll focus on the temple.

01:41:16.89
Kurt Francom
Oh yeah, they had like ah Spanish speaking kids and everything right. Right.

01:41:54.50
Geoff Openshaw
Love they’re doing this and I love joy d jones for I assume being a transformative figure and starting that first one back in 2021 and I even see that as an upside to covid in a way I don’t know if the None friend of friend would have happened if covid had like forced our hand to find ways to program for the primary kids during the pandemic. So ah.

01:42:08.65
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, true. Yeah.

01:42:30.72
Geoff Openshaw
Um, excited for that good for them pumped you and I have primary age kids I Love these things. Yeah.

01:42:35.19
Kurt Francom
That’s right, no and there needs be more of the I wish it was a weekly show but I know that that would take a larger amount of resources in time hey we can all we all got our wish Geoff so.

01:42:48.12
Geoff Openshaw
I Wish we just watched church on Zoom every week I was.

01:43:01.53
Kurt Francom
Oh boy Geoff where do you want to go next I don’t even know. Okay, yeah, so ah, this is a ah an HL player a major turned. What’s that.

01:43:07.62
Geoff Openshaw
Tell tell about how the view join the church will be good at sports.

01:43:28.22
Geoff Openshaw
That’s that that’s what what the headline says by the way That’s what the headline says it basically says join the church and you will be good at sports.

01:43:36.63
Kurt Francom
Yeah, what it really says is and Nhl’s Lone Latterday saint hockey player is one step from the stanley cup finals because he chooses the right? Um, so this is Derek Ryan he’s a professional career came during his one season. In the swedish hockey league. He was the league’s top score and its most valuable player. It didn’t take long for the Nfl teams to start calling and ah and so yeah, he’s doing great and he’s I would think there would be more than just None latter-day saint in the n of jail but.

01:44:48.86
Geoff Openshaw
None so here’s the issue though. Just just to not spoil it for anybody this article was written a few days ago currently the edmonton oilers his team are down 3 games to nil in the playoffs here. So it’s not looking good for the western conference final for him. He might not be playing.

01:44:48.21
Kurt Francom
I guess.

01:45:01.93
Kurt Francom
Oh boy. Um, it’s because. Ah, this is this is part of the story Geoff is the big comeback like the red Sox back in the day you know that’s right? so.

01:45:28.86
Geoff Openshaw
And the thing. So.

01:45:35.82
Geoff Openshaw
The tell this is this is 2004 red sox all over again is what you’re saying. Yeah ah so he’s a convert though, right? he joined the church of his own volition and his adulthood if that’s not mistake compared to the involuntary people. Yes, it’s ah that’s.

01:45:54.29
Kurt Francom
We need more of those people. Yeah the people we drag into the font. Yeah, maybe the framing and tone of is little little different but.

01:46:12.72
Geoff Openshaw
Um, I mean this is a cool little story. It does kind of just yeah I mean he says the framing antonne is a little bit like he changed his choices and the way he lived and now he’s a better hockey player because of it because of what the church has brought up which what I’m most curious about the only latter-day saint in the Nhl.

01:46:33.99
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah.

01:46:52.44
Geoff Openshaw
That is actually more interesting to me than anything Else. We have plenty of latter-day saints in basketball football baseball we’re represented not None of us. But we’re there but the only one in the entire Nl. Do you think that is because ah I mean Hockey teams are all around the country. And it’s not like it’s you play like where you live Necessari I don’t know I’m curious about this. It? Okay yeah B I use and I Also wonder Honestly, if culturally the places where hockey is a bigger deal I E the far north.

01:47:29.50
Kurt Francom
It’s because b I use hockey team is a club team Geoff that’s what it is.

01:47:54.20
Geoff Openshaw
Is not as heavily latter-day saint in a lot of areas I’m not that you can’t play hockey anywhere but you know what I mean like it’s a a lot of Canada new england minnesota stuff like we have saints. But it’s not like sports like football where we’re welcome.

01:47:51.75
Kurt Francom
Yeah, right look.

01:48:14.59
Kurt Francom
Right? Yeah, there’s probably not a lot of hockey recruits coming out of Utah right.

01:48:30.50
Geoff Openshaw
That’s what yeah, that’s what I wonder about it’s kind of interesting. So imagine being the only one and a convert no less. So there’s nobody playing professional hockey who was like raised in the church but none whatso and that’s the name of the.

01:48:31.75
Kurt Francom
Um, right, no pioneer stock in the Nhl. Hit.

01:48:58.32
Geoff Openshaw
You you think I’m joking but you can hear me writing it out there. So that’s cool. Ah I you are. You’re full of witticism then Wendy um, here’s something that I was perusing desret news as faith page you know, looking for some interesting content, interesting stuff and here’s an article.

01:49:01.67
Kurt Francom
Okay, I’m glad I’m honored when my phrases make the title of the episode.

01:49:38.40
Geoff Openshaw
Ah, by Maya Jarraat who talks about what other faith. What did not None other what faith groups are doing to help with the housing crisis. Um, lots of interviews with people from all around the country and faith communities and essentially. What they are doing in order to address the issue of the fact that housing’s very expensive in the United States right now and there’s not enough of it in most cases I mean Kurt you’ve seen that you’re probably over the moon that you bought your current house when you did as opposed to now. Yeah, yes, yes, but even but but.

01:50:27.97
Kurt Francom
Yep thirty forty miles outside of the area where I wanted to live but yes, but it’s a house nonetheless. Oh yeah, yeah, we got some equity.

01:50:44.34
Geoff Openshaw
But even that I’m going to go out on a limit assume you have appreciated in a ridiculous way. Yeah there it’s time to refinance, you’ve already hit that 20% for nothing. No more pmi for you. So um.

01:50:59.27
Kurt Francom
That’s right, Let’s do this.

01:51:14.54
Geoff Openshaw
Anyway, it’s a lengthy article. It’s worth reading I’m not going to go into every detail but it is interesting to learn about how faith-based organizations and houses of worth worship are actually like sometimes even working with local legislatures to try to find some kinds of solutions and sometimes this is as much as like using like taking old churches that are no longer used as churches. And converting them into homeless shelters or using property that churches my own to build affordable housing or things like that. Um, you know there’s no there’s no proposal that’s necessarily a bad one per se but I like that these churches are getting involved in some short term solutions some longer term solutions things that they can do. Ah, in order to address these issues not just of like affordable housing but also of course you know the homeless situation and it always makes me wonder what more we can do within our faith group as latter-day saints I mean there’s no real mention of what we are doing in this and we’ve talked about it a bit on the show before is affordability going to at some point become a major issue somewhere like Utah and cause. Potentially even an exodus of members to go elsewhere where they can afford to live is we’re seeing in some other more expensive states right? now that are going to Utah um, this this could be is just very interesting to me right? like we’re good at building luxury condos and stuff like that and that’s nothing wrong with that. But why don’t we build more that involves affordable housing why don’t we do a little bit more on that front I kind of wish we would I think it’d be cool Kurt I know you don’t want any involvement with anything for anybody doing anything you want you want the invisible hand to guide all things. But yes.

01:54:05.30
Kurt Francom
No, that’s right? Geoff that’s right? No what it is is that I am completely uneducated on any of these dynamics and if I tried to say something which I’ve I’ve done in the past on your program and ah typically sound just completely out of bounds. So. I amen Geoff that’s what I’m going to add to that story.

01:54:46.80
Geoff Openshaw
I Don’t know it’d be cool I don’t have all the answers I think you and the church doesn’t have all the answers necessarily but it’d be cool if we also got involved to think about things we could do I mean I Even think about my meeting house here. We have like double the size of a parking lot like we use our back parking lot for parties and stuff. Like yeah, you could also build like some like affordable housing units on that too I don’t think that’s ever going to happen but I did.

01:55:25.37
Kurt Francom
To put so you can house your your ah impoverished bishop in order to change that.

01:55:38.74
Geoff Openshaw
Yes, and then what you do is you have to go to theology school to become a bishop and you take a vo elbassy fine. It’s a brand new idea Why’t Anybody thought of this before it’s good.

01:55:46.59
Kurt Francom
Yeah, it’s the new I did Geoff yeah, all right? Geoff I’m ending it with ah with a plea from the twin audience that we need Michael Ballum on the on the podcast because recently it was it was shared tweeted that. Ah, Michael Baum was giving tours of the Logan Opera house I know that he’s a resident of cash valley and I think he taught it or maybe still does teach at Utah state I don’t know but um, but Michael Baum he is he is a

01:56:39.58
Geoff Openshaw
So.

01:57:01.91
Kurt Francom
A I mean I’m so many terms are coming to mind Geoff he’s just a gem. He is an institution of himself within our institution so that would be a fascinating interview so make it happen. Geoff.

01:57:06.90
Geoff Openshaw
A legend an entertainer a singer say satan all these things the reason he’s saying this by the way come I you can’t leave the context out Kurt is because of Benjamin Park I’ll just link to the photo.

01:57:38.69
Kurt Francom
Um, yeah, oh yes, yes.

01:57:46.84
Geoff Openshaw
But benja park made a quip about some of the temple script. not ah, not ah not a crazily sacred part. But basically that Michael Ballum played Lucifer in the temple film before they finally got rid of it for those 3 new ones before they turned it into a slideshow and he quotes some of the dialogue about the fanciness of the Logan Opera house and what you can. Purchase with means shall we say but I’d love to have Michael Baummont sure let’s do him. Do you ever think it’s funny that Michael Baum is almost like very close to being spelled belam. You know you know old testament stuff. You know.

01:58:45.33
Kurt Francom
Um I don’t I don’t follow. Oh okay, yes, okay oh boy that should be your None question when you have him on your podcast.

01:59:04.68
Geoff Openshaw
I mean that’s the very close together I bet he’ll never call I’ll be like we had Marlin K Jensen on and he liked us a lot even though I bet he doesn’t remember it but he he was there. You can come to Michael Bala like Michael Michael Balaam here I go anyway. Um.

01:59:35.83
Kurt Francom
Yeah, yeah, we were just hit an hour here man. So woof.

01:59:41.36
Geoff Openshaw
Been a good run Kurt I’ve enjoyed this time with you? Yeah, so everyone thanks for taking the time tune in Love you all Patreon supporters you guys are the best. Thanks so much for keeping this going. You can do the same if you go to http://patreon.com/thisweek in mormons and of course you can follow us on all the socials and all the places and all the things This Week in Mormons dot. Com where you can also find the links to the articles we’ve discussed this week I’d like to thank Kurt frankum my wonderful friend and host go to leadingsas dot org folks help him out there. You can also pledge there make a tax deductible donation if you really want to and that’ll help kurt get out of you know 40 miles west of Salt Lake city and

02:00:37.13
Kurt Francom
That’s right. And that’s right and be great.

02:00:53.62
Geoff Openshaw
If you want this prosperity doctrine thing to work. We’ve got to get Curt into immigration canyon make it happen people come on but good seeing you man. Thanks for being here all right? We’ll have a good week everybody we’ll talk to soon another episode of this week in more another episode I called it a episode another episode of this week of mormons is over okay bye bye bye.

02:01:02.21
Kurt Francom
Um, thanks man.

 

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